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[lothario1132]

[quote]doogie wrote:
Where do you live that this is a “small segment” of society?[/quote]

USA

One in five Americans speak a language other than English at home. That’s hardly a majority.

Now on top of that, to be a naturalized citizen you have to speak English, and there’s a bill already passed by the Senate which is floating around the House right now that would declare English the Official Language of the US.

I really am not worried about our country being “taken over”, and neither should anybody else. If somebody doesn’t think it’s cool to be able to immerse yourself in another language or another culture, then that’s fine. All I’m saying is that the opportunity is there, and those who embrace it are going to be better prepared for the future.

For example, I’m doing contract work now, travelling all over, and the ability to speak other languages makes me imminently more employable and useful than someone who doesn’t. And this is not a statement of how crappy the world is, that’s just the way it is. If I get to bid on a job in Miami, the fact that I have taken four years of Spanish classes isn’t gonna hurt.

[Wreckless]

[quote]orangecola wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061015/ap_on_re_eu/britain_veil_dispute

england has some of the same problems too. You are in england! take off the damn veil or move back to a country with muslim laws. Stop trying to force you religion on everybody else!
This isn’t paranoia. Certain sects of certain groups are trying to create their own little countries with their own little laws.
Nations cannot exist like this![/quote]

You’ve got it backwards. You’re trying to force your religion on them is you insist they take of the veil.

[Headhunter]

If imms want to keep their culture and language, then they should stay where those things are the norm.

If I went to Belgium, for example, I wouldn’t expect the roadsigns and so forth to be in English. I would expect Wreckless there, however, to carry my luggage.

Just kidding, just kidding…

[Headhunter]

[quote]orangecola wrote:
tme wrote:
Fuck yeah, White Power baby!

Heil!

If you had actually read the post you would have realized that my argument is that white power is 180 degrees the exact opposite of what made this country great. White power believes that only white’s have a right to this land and that only white’s have contributed to it’s greatness.

They also believe that only white’s hold the key to making this country great in the future. I can only guess you are being a jack ass here.

My argument is the exact opposite. It is only with the common contribution of whites, blacks, hispanics, arabs and asians that this country can, as it did in the past, maintain it’s greatness. I seek not so seperate, but to integrate all under the common vail of being an american.

[/quote]

tme is not known for his deep thinking skills. Hell, reading 2 sentences in a post is a struggle for him.

[jlesk68]

It’s all about profits…

[Professor_X]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If imms want to keep their culture and language, then they should stay where those things are the norm.

If I went to Belgium, for example, I wouldn’t expect the roadsigns and so forth to be in English. I would expect Wreckless there, however, to carry my luggage.

Just kidding, just kidding…[/quote]

What if they said you can’t wear your necklace with the cross on it because it offends their religion? Maybe they don’t like the fact that you wear pants in Scotland so they make you wear kilts. What if you don’t like your nuts hanging out for the world to see?

I think it’s very easy to sit removed from any situation like this and claim others should change every aspect of their own culture because they moved location of residence.

I could see complaining if you had to actually sit through a spanish speaking phone operator before ever hearing English…however, the only thing that upsets me about today’s technology is never being able to speak to a live human being anymore. Pressing 1 is so NOT what the real problem is.

[PGreen711]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If imms want to keep their culture and language, then they should stay where those things are the norm.

If I went to Belgium, for example, I wouldn’t expect the roadsigns and so forth to be in English. I would expect Wreckless there, however, to carry my luggage.

Just kidding, just kidding…[/quote]

What if millions of Americans went to Belgium for a better life and to make more money, perhaps so many that Americans would be the fastest growing minority, you think there would be a lack of English then? No way, the point is that business will accomodate people that have an effect on the economy, you can’t blame “imms” blame the businesses that accomodate them if you want to blame someone for the “problem”.

As a side-note if you went to Belgium you would probably be surprised at the amount of people that accomodated you by speaking English because American tourists spend lots of money.

What do you call someone that speaks three languages? Trilingual

What do you call someone that speaks two languages? Bilingual

What do you call someone that speaks one language? American

[Headhunter]

[quote]PGreen711 wrote:

What do you call someone that speaks one language? American[/quote]

Sad but true. I spoke to children and high schoolers in China, in English. How many American teens speak Mandarin?

Since it is the destiny of the Chinese and Americans to run the world, we should learn each others language.

[rainjack]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think it’s very easy to sit removed from any situation like this and claim others should change every aspect of their own culture because they moved location of residence.
[/quote]

I think that’s exaggerating a bit.

All he’s asking is for folks to speak the fucking language.

Your from Texas. You know damn well that you can’t take the hispanic culture away from hispanics. But they could speak English if folks didn’t assume they were too freaking stupid to learn.

Personally - if I were an immigrant I would find it condescending that everything had to be written in my language.

[Professor_X]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I think it’s very easy to sit removed from any situation like this and claim others should change every aspect of their own culture because they moved location of residence.

I think that’s exaggerating a bit.

All he’s asking is for folks to speak the fucking language.

Your from Texas. You know damn well that you can’t take the hispanic culture away from hispanics. But they could speak English if folks didn’t assume they were too freaking stupid to learn.

Personally - if I were an immigrant I would find it condescending that everything had to be written in my language.

[/quote]

No you wouldn’t. If you were in France and every menu in every restaraunt was written in english, you probably wouldn’t even think twice about it. Because I’m from Texas and grew up around a lot of latinos, I don’t despise their culture at all. If anything, I feel bad for taking the easy way out and taking French in college (because the teacher was fine as hell and my grandmother used to speak it enough for mew to get straught A’s) instead of Spanish. Like someone said above, it is all about business. I will pretty much be required to hire a spanish speaking assistant if I open a practice if I plan on taking advantage of that market.

[MightyBlaze]

For me it’s not a matter of feeling threatened by people who don’t speak English, nor is pressing 1 a big deal at all. It’s a matter of feeling I shouldn’t HAVE to speak another language in order to get service. There’s a time and place for everything.

If I’m at my inlaws’ house I speak Spanish, if I go to Calle Ocho in Miami, which is almost exclusively Cuban, I speak Spanish when ordering food, etc., but it annoys me when I’m in a random grocery store/gas station and I HAVE to speak Spanish in order to buy roast beef or gas respectively, for example. And it happens a lot. If I sold arepas in Bogota I assume people would expect me to do so in Spanish.

I don’t think expecting the same of people here makes one xenophobic, racist, narrow minded, or threatened. And my immigrant inlaws and resident alien wife would definitely concur.

[Schwarzfahrer]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[…]
Since it is the destiny of the Chinese and Americans to run the world, we should learn each others language.
[/quote]
I beg your pardon?

Let me assure you, the world will not fall apart and the moon will not crash into earth, without America.
Also, the chinese couldn’t care less about global problems, they’re definitely not interested in “running” things.

[Digital_Chainsaw]

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:

One in five Americans speak a language other than English at home. That’s hardly a majority.[/quote]

True, but what people do “at home” is not the issue.

Now on top of that, to be a naturalized citizen you have to speak English,

True, but why should anyone bother to take that step when resident aliens have no such requirement, and can enjoy all of the benefits of living in America indefinitely?

and there’s a bill already passed by the Senate which is floating around the House right now that would declare English the Official Language of the US.

Pfeh. If only…

I really am not worried about our country being “taken over”, and neither should anybody else.

Therein lies the problem; anything short of someone chucking molotov cocktails in front of their house, people are more than happy to shrug off as no big deal, and no threat to their nation’s unity or way of life.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, as only dumbasses like me who went to college for an education instead of glorified job training ever bother to read history anymore, and even fewer recognize the precedents set since the dawn of civilization for toppling empires.

Rome, Byzantium, Persia just to name a few were ultimately undermined from the inside; assimilated peoples under their rule grew in power and influence over time and began pulling in different directions.

[quote]If somebody doesn’t think it’s cool to be able to immerse yourself in another language or another culture, then that’s fine. All I’m saying is that the opportunity is there, and those who embrace it are going to be better prepared for the future.

For example, I’m doing contract work now, travelling all over, and the ability to speak other languages makes me imminently more employable and useful than someone who doesn’t. And this is not a statement of how crappy the world is, that’s just the way it is. If I get to bid on a job in Miami, the fact that I have taken four years of Spanish classes isn’t gonna hurt. :)[/quote]

Here’s where you seem to lose focus, lothario. Being bilingual (or in my wife’s case, trilingual) is indeed an asset for an individual, but that is not the issue at hand here.

I’ll just direct you to jjblaze’s last post since he explained it better and more concisely than I ever could.

And go figure, all three of us are Floridians!

[Digital_Chainsaw]

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Businesses, however, would speak Kilngon if geeks had the buying power of Hispanics.

All you guys worried about America losing its “coolness” due to other languages “invading” our prisitine English-speaking America, read this again.[/quote]

“Coolness”. Exactly the issue.

Why so adamant about this guys? I suppose if you see a billboard written entirely in Spanish, you have a conniption? Come to my lovely Florida and you will see them everywhere. It’s nothing to be afraid of.

Hmm… Never seen one where I live.

@Digital: Dude, what happened with your lady is a travesty. It shouldn’t be that much of a pain in the ass to be an “official” American, and she sounds like an amazing person to learn English, etc. so quickly. Wow.

I appreciate the support and kind words, but we did not in any way consider it an injustice. In fact, we were glad to see there was someone at the wheel regarding immigration/naturalization. My problem is that these standards are not applied evenly across the board.

Just so no one gets the impression that I’m in the “everyone else should have to suffer like us” camp, let me be clear that I think immigration restrictions are a good thing.

The real travesty is that hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens get to have all of these restrictions lifted with one stroke of a pen in Washington, and thus have no incentive and make no attempt to learn even the basic rudiments of the language of a country they chose to live in.

Just one more example of why we should have open(er) borders, guys. And if that means a bunch of folks come here who don’t know English very well, and that means you have to listen for five more seconds to phone calls to Verizon Wireless to select a language, then well I guess that’s just the end of the world.

No, just the begining of the end for our way of life in the U.S. But hell, we’ll be dead by the time it all goes to complete shit. Let our grandkids deal with it.

Here’s an idea: instead of getting grumpy about the inevitable influx of foreign folks coming to our country in search of a better life, and feeling threatened (Oh! Our country’s going down the tubes!),

Nobody here has said any such thing. You are projecting an opposing viewpoint that is not there.

howsabout we learn how to speak Spanish ourselves?

This is a joke, right?

I didn’t move to Mexico. With all the shit one has to deal with in daily life, why the hell should anyone have to learn a foreign language to get around in a country they were born in? I’m not just talking the U.S., but any country in the world.

Yeah, it’s something different than what you’re used to, and it might be hard at first, but after it’s all said and done, you will be stronger for it.

So, do something against our will for our own good, is that it? No thanks.

Maybe then you can go ahead and press two for spanish that next time you call Verizon. Or, god forbid, make some friends with spanish-speaking people who are your neighbors or something. Maybe then you can see that they aren’t all that different from you and me.

There you go again, twisting this around to look like it is a personal rejection of foreign people, when that is the farthest thing from the truth or the actual issue at hand.

You know what? Or don’t. It’s not like exposing yourself to new experiences and learning and growing as a person is the meaning of life or anything. Just stay monolingual, it’s not gonna kill you. But realize that this gives you no excuse to be confused and indignant the next time you encounter someone who doesn’t speak english as well they can speak spanish.

No excuse? Fuck that! It is my right as an American citizen to be as pissed off and indignant as I please when I encounter someone who is too lazy and/or arrogant to learn the language of my homeland, which he/she chooses to live in.

In fact, as I was typing this post here at work (where I have to answer the occasional incoming call), some guy calls up and says, “someone speak Spanish!”. Notice there is no question mark, but an exclamation point at the end of that interjection; this fucker was not asking, but demanding that I connect him with someone who spoke Spanish. Lucky for him, I know of one guy that does, and transferred the guy on the line. I bet he would have understood English real quick (and I’d be out of a job) if I had said what was on my mind.

[Digital_Chainsaw]

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
You can take a driver’s license test in several languages in California, can’t you? Wow, like, that’s a problem, right? :)[/quote]

Umm… Maybe. What language are road signs written in again?

[lothario1132]

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
No excuse? Fuck that! It is my right as an American citizen to be as pissed off and indignant as I please when I encounter someone who is too lazy and/or arrogant to learn the language of my homeland, which he/she chooses to live in.[/quote]

Chain: Not to be a jackass here, but not everybody can be as smart as your wife. Why assume that they are “lazy and arrogant”? The latino immigrants I’ve seen around here are anything but lazy… they mow lawns and trim hedges, etc. about fifteen times faster than their reefer-smoking surfer dude coworkers who aren’t immigrants.

Give them some time, man. These people aren’t coming here so that they can steal. They’re coming here so that they can fucking EAT, which is perhaps quite a bit trickier to pull off in their old homeland.

Christ, I can’t blame them for trying to do something better than laying around and starving, man! Can you? If the shoe was on the other foot, would you be doing everything you could to escape poverty? Even if it meant jumping a fence and taking a service job in America?

[MightyBlaze]

I’m not going to be so presumptuous as to assume I know how Chain would respond, and I’m sure he’ll answer for himself, but there were some things that jumped out here that should be addressed.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Digital Chainsaw wrote:
No excuse? Fuck that! It is my right as an American citizen to be as pissed off and indignant as I please when I encounter someone who is too lazy and/or arrogant to learn the language of my homeland, which he/she chooses to live in.

Chain: Not to be a jackass here, but not everybody can be as smart as your wife. Why assume that they are “lazy and arrogant”? The latino immigrants I’ve seen around here are anything but lazy… they mow lawns and trim hedges, etc. about fifteen times faster than their reefer-smoking surfer dude coworkers who aren’t immigrants.

Why do you change “someone” to “they”? Are you suggesting that Chain just painted EVERY Latino w/ a broad brushstroke, or did YOU just do that? It’s not just a game of semantics, there is a vast difference. And there are Latinos who are neither English speakers nor landscapers. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. And because someone is industrious enough to earn a living does not mean they’re not being lazy by not learning to speak English. I know people who have lived here for twenty years who don’t speak ANY English. That IS goddamn lazy, regardless of whether or not they have a job.

Give them some time, man. These people aren’t coming here so that they can steal. They’re coming here so that they can fucking EAT, which is perhaps quite a bit trickier to pull off in their old homeland.

NO ONE suggested that people are automatically thieves if they don’t speak English. NO one questioned their motivations for coming here.

Christ, I can’t blame them for trying to do something better than laying around and starving, man! Can you? If the shoe was on the other foot, would you be doing everything you could to escape poverty? Even if it meant jumping a fence and taking a service job in America?[/quote]

Again, no one blames them for coming here. This country was built on the backs of immigrants who came here to escape persecution, find a better life for their family, etc. However those people in prior generations learned English, busted their asses, and were fucking happy to have the opportunity to do so. Those are the people I respect, my ancestors and likely yours too.

[Dr_Stig1]

If you Americans want to speak English why the fuck did you change their language so much. Personally I don’t care i’m not English, mixture Welsh/Irish. But when I come across language options like

US ENGLISH

I think, not its Fucking English English…

or

BRITISH ENGLISH

what ?! is that like Peanut butter that contains real Peanuts ?

Seriously, in Wales, if you ring some government departments you can have English, Punjabi, Urdi, Arabic, Serbo-Croat, Polish…

[Digital_Chainsaw]

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Digital Chainsaw wrote:
No excuse? Fuck that! It is my right as an American citizen to be as pissed off and indignant as I please when I encounter someone who is too lazy and/or arrogant to learn the language of my homeland, which he/she chooses to live in.

Chain: Not to be a jackass here, but not everybody can be as smart as your wife. Why assume that they are “lazy and arrogant”? [/quote]

Read it again. I wrote "lazy and/or arrogant to learn the language". I said nothing about their work ethic, nor did I remotely imply that they were thieves.

The latino immigrants I’ve seen around here are anything but lazy… they mow lawns and trim hedges, etc. about fifteen times faster than their reefer-smoking surfer dude coworkers who aren’t immigrants.

No argument there, man. But that is hardly the subject here.

Give them some time, man.

How long? 10, 20 years? You can tell when someone is making an effort or not, and people like the one jjblaze described, and the shithead I just recently took a call from are perfect examples of the lazy/arrogant people I am talking about.

My answer? 1 year from the date you get your Green Card, every able-minded person receives a literacy test. Nothing fancy, say, something that shows a 4th grade reading/writing comprehension of English (I’m assuming if they can read and write it, then they can speak it).

I can’t see how any reasonable person could find this unfair.

[quote]These people aren’t coming here so that they can steal. They’re coming here so that they can fucking EAT, which is perhaps quite a bit trickier to pull off in their old homeland.

Christ, I can’t blame them for trying to do something better than laying around and starving, man! Can you?[/quote]

No, and I never have, but you seem to keep going back to this made-up point for some reason.

If the shoe was on the other foot, would you be doing everything you could to escape poverty? Even if it meant jumping a fence and taking a service job in America?

All due respect (and I do think you are a pretty smart guy), it seems like it has become mine and jjblaze’s job to keep grabbing your head turning it back to center; you tend to drift, man. Neither of us ever mentioned work ethic, or that immigrants are thieves, or anything even remotely close to those statements.

A little anecdote, just to calm any fears you may have about me not seeing the human interest side of the equation:

Sometime around 10 years ago, about a week before Christmas, my mom and I were having lunch at a diner and hadn’t seen our waitress for a very long while. The busboy, a young Hispanic kid, was nearby and I asked him if he could bring us a shaker of salt. He stared at me, and wrinkled his brow as if he didn’t understand, and I repeated the question. He replied, “salt?”. I said “yes”, and he nodded and went back to the kitchen. He came back and gave me my… Silverware, which he laid down in proper order onto a fresh napkin in front of me. I realized what was going on and just said, “thank you”.

I didn’t want to embarass or humiliate the guy; he was busting his ass at a low-paying job, but, more importantly, he was making an effort to communicate with me in English. So he got it wrong this time, big deal. He tried, and that is all I am asking of anybody.

As we were leaving the restaurant, I went up to the guy, palmed him ten bucks and said, “Feliz Navidad, amigo”. Know what he said? Not “gracias”, but “thank you”. That’s what I’m talking about.

[Digital_Chainsaw]

[quote]jjblaze wrote:
I’m not going to be so presumptuous as to assume I know how Chain would respond,[/quote]

You did it better than I did, IMHO, and in fewer sentences. Maybe you should be my post editor from now on (I tend to write a liiitle more than is necessary sometimes).

[quote]and I’m sure he’ll answer for himself, but there were some things that jumped out here that should be addressed.

lothario1132 wrote:
Digital Chainsaw wrote:
No excuse? Fuck that! It is my right as an American citizen to be as pissed off and indignant as I please when I encounter someone who is too lazy and/or arrogant to learn the language of my homeland, which he/she chooses to live in.

Chain: Not to be a jackass here, but not everybody can be as smart as your wife. Why assume that they are “lazy and arrogant”? The latino immigrants I’ve seen around here are anything but lazy… they mow lawns and trim hedges, etc. about fifteen times faster than their reefer-smoking surfer dude coworkers who aren’t immigrants.[quote]

Why do you change “someone” to “they”? Are you suggesting that Chain just painted EVERY Latino w/ a broad brushstroke, or did YOU just do that? It’s not just a game of semantics, there is a vast difference. And there are Latinos who are neither English speakers nor landscapers. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. And because someone is industrious enough to earn a living does not mean they’re not being lazy by not learning to speak English. I know people who have lived here for twenty years who don’t speak ANY English. That IS goddamn lazy, regardless of whether or not they have a job.

Give them some time, man. These people aren’t coming here so that they can steal. They’re coming here so that they can fucking EAT, which is perhaps quite a bit trickier to pull off in their old homeland.

NO ONE suggested that people are automatically thieves if they don’t speak English. NO one questioned their motivations for coming here.

Christ, I can’t blame them for trying to do something better than laying around and starving, man! Can you? If the shoe was on the other foot, would you be doing everything you could to escape poverty? Even if it meant jumping a fence and taking a service job in America?

Again, no one blames them for coming here. This country was built on the backs of immigrants who came here to escape persecution, find a better life for their family, etc. However those people in prior generations learned English, busted their asses, and were fucking happy to have the opportunity to do so. Those are the people I respect, my ancestors and likely yours too.

[/quote]