[quote]hueyOT wrote:
99% of canadians living outside of quebec speak english. why spend taxpayer money to ensure that french services are offered by the government outside of quebec?[/quote]
I’m confused at this point just how much service is offered in French outside of Quebec. The anglophone sez “beaucoup” while the francophone sez “not so much.”
I think if I were a French speaker, even if living in Quebec, even if speaking some amount of English, I’d feel reassured to know that I could walk into any city hall, police station, or emergency room in any other province and expect to find at least one French speaker on duty. I should expect that the government printing office does double runs of just about everything.
Now maybe you’re complaining that the actual provisions are much more than that. But it seems to me there should be at least that much expectation.
Or would you prefer that the Quebecois regard the rest of Canada as a foreign country?
[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
99% of canadians living outside of quebec speak english. why spend taxpayer money to ensure that french services are offered by the government outside of quebec?
I’m confused at this point just how much service is offered in French outside of Quebec. The anglophone sez “beaucoup” while the francophone sez “not so much.”
I think if I were a French speaker, even if living in Quebec, even if speaking some amount of English, I’d feel reassured to know that I could walk into any city hall, police station, or emergency room in any other province and expect to find at least one French speaker on duty. I should expect that the government printing office does double runs of just about everything.
Now maybe you’re complaining that the actual provisions are much more than that. But it seems to me there should be at least that much expectation.
Or would you prefer that the Quebecois regard the rest of Canada as a foreign country?[/quote]
well, about 7 million canadians identify french as their mother tongue <this includes canadians who speak both french and english fluently, though>. this is less than 25% of canada’s population, not to mention, the vast majority of these french canadians are located in one province of canada. it doesn’t make sense to create special treatment for them across canada. not to mention, to discriminate against non-french-speakers in the job market simply due to this silly biligual national legislation.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
it doesn’t make sense to create special treatment for them across canada. not to mention, to discriminate against non-french-speakers in the job market simply due to this silly biligual national legislation.
[/quote]
These Quebec French speakers, they never travel or conduct business inside the rest of Canada or anything? And why is it special treatment to know, wherever you happen to be inside your nation, that you can talk to government servants (your servants) about important and complicated matters in the language you best understand?
Whichever language that is. This is what it means to have more than one official language, and it’s always a very big deal bureaucratically speaking.
It seems to me it comes down to whether you want the Quebecois to be - or perceive themselves as - a separate nation or not. Polyglot empires require multilingual civil servants, end of story. If you’re going to have a circus, you have to have elephants.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
no, because you still need unity throughout the country through language. a canadian citizen should be able to have access to services entitled to him/her.[/quote]
Well then, a French speaking Canadian, whether from Quebec or Alberta or New Brunswick, should be entitled to the same rights. If he gets federal services in french at home, he should be able to travel across his country and receive services in his language.
[quote]and english is the strong majority language in this language. therefore english must be offered accross canada from the government, and in a place like quebec, of course french as well.
quebec is not a seperate country.[/quote]
Not yet. Hopefully we can manage to grow a pair before the next referendum. Meanwhile, we managed to graduate from “distinct society” to “nation.”
Whether Quebec is a country or not is of little importance. Your argument is that the majority should not have to pay to support a service which only a small minority needs. I can understand the logic of it. The same logic can be equally applied provincially or even municipally.
Yes and about 95% of them live in Montreal. We could have some bilingual offices in Montreal and remove them in the rest of Quebec with very little impact.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
where are you getting this information?[/quote]
I live here and I’m French.
Yes, but the workplace was almost entirely in English; both my grandfathers had to speak English with their bosses, as they spoke not a word of French.
If you look at old archive films of Montreal from the 40s, 50s and 60s, you can see an extremely high amount of English only signs.
It is the government’s job to do carry out the people’s will. If you run on a platform of cultural identity and are elected, then you should respect the will of the people.
Yes it would be, but that’s not what the law requires. You can use whatever language you wish, but French has to be present and predominant. After that, you’re free to list all the other languages you want.
The Americans living in the South are calling for various similar legislations (requiring the national anthem be sung in English, for example). Are they also being ridiculous?
As it gets more and more “diffused” you eventually end up being completely assimilated.
Again, the government’s job is to represent the population and act on it’s behalf.
You have a really odd way of seeing things. In Canada, Quebec is the minority. You wish to protect the minority from the “tyranny” of the majority? That’s exactly what the Quebec government has been doing since the mid 70s.
Although I wouldn’t call it “tyranny” if for no other reason than out of respect for people who have suffered and died under actual tyrants.
We’re talking about offering bilingual services and labeling laws. Let’s keep things in perspective.
We wanted a bit more than to “preserve our culture at the grassroots” level. I’m sure you like being able to go to work and speak your mother tongue? Or go to the store and be able to read signs and labels?
If everytime you set foot out of your house, you had to use a language other than english, would you be OK with that? Would you accept it, content that you can preserve your “grassroots English culture” at home?
Yes, mandating bilingual signs is truly an abominable act. How do those poor businesses ever manage to cope? Think of the enormous burden and imposition it must be to have signs in the language of 90% of your clientele.
[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
These Quebec French speakers, they never travel or conduct business inside the rest of Canada or anything? And why is it special treatment to know, wherever you happen to be inside your nation, that you can talk to government servants (your servants) about important and complicated matters in the language you best understand?
[/quote]
are we going to make the same changes for the hundreds of thousands of chinese immigrants that arrived to canada in the past 20 years? we have nearly 1 million people in canada who identify mandarin or cantonese as their primary language. that number is growing significantly. are we going to offer government services across canada for this minority? no. of course not.
grassroots solutions are what’s needed. non-profit organizations that assist newly arrived canadian immigrants to learn english and to understand how canada works. of course certain levels of government can provide some degree of assistance to help integrate non-english speakers and allow them to take advantage of services that are available in english.
these immigrants must be expected to learn english if they expect to be able to deal with the government. of course they do not HAVE to learn english if they do not want to, but their lives won’t be better off from that decision.
all ethnic minorities in canada should learn english if they want their lives to be easier. and the resources are made available and well-advertised to allow non-english speakers to take education classes at no additional charge.
with quebec, it is a outright rejection of english. with the faulty argument of culture preservation. governments, if truly egalitarian, do not play favorites with culture.
[quote]Whichever language that is. This is what it means to have more than one official language, and it’s always a very big deal bureaucratically speaking.
It seems to me it comes down to whether you want the Quebecois to be - or perceive themselves as - a separate nation or not. Polyglot empires require multilingual civil servants, end of story. If you’re going to have a circus, you have to have elephants.[/quote]
that’s the problem, though. quebec sees itself as a separate country. and it isn’t. and since it’s not a separate country, it cannot legally pass laws that discriminate against english.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Well then, a French speaking Canadian, whether from Quebec or Alberta or New Brunswick, should be entitled to the same rights. If he gets federal services in french at home, he should be able to travel across his country and receive services in his language.[/quote]
what about an arabic speaking canadian? or a mandarin speaking canadian? or a russian speaking canadian? you know what they have the right to do? they have the right to learn english. you cannot justify preferential treatment to the language of french nationawide when the vast majority of the french MINORITY in canada is concentrated in quebec. i can understand provincial differences, but to make french a NATIONAL official language makes absolutely no sense. francophones are NOT the only minority in canada. there are many many many minorities in canada which are not given this kind of treatment. do you propose we make mandarin an official language of canada so that chinese people travelling around the country from vancouver has ease of access to governmental services? get real.
[quote]Not yet. Hopefully we can manage to grow a pair before the next referendum. Meanwhile, we managed to graduate from “distinct society” to “nation.”
Whether Quebec is a country or not is of little importance. Your argument is that the majority should not have to pay to support a service which only a small minority needs. I can understand the logic of it. The same logic can be equally applied provincially or even municipally.[/quote]
that’s fine. quebec, and quebec alone , can have separate provincial language laws . so to make french an official language of quebec is totally alright. but to extend this gesture nationally is absurd.
however, language laws in quebec are discriminatory and arguably unconstitutional. i mean come on, they create barriers for parents to send their own children to english-schools. how fucked up and intolerant is that? and english signs, if i recall correctly, MUST be dominated by french lettering of at least twice the size. this isn’t always practical, and you laregely see french-only signs in quebec in order to avoid fines and legal problem from the language police.
[quote]Yes and about 95% of them live in Montreal. We could have some bilingual offices in Montreal and remove them in the rest of Quebec with very little impact.
[/quote]
montreal is also quebec’s ecomonic and population capital. montreal composes about half of quebec’s population.
at the end of the day, biligualism in canada at the national level is discriminatory and absurd. it lends an unfair advantage to a particular minority for no reason, while all other lnaguage minorities do not get, nor should they get, this same treatment.
Yes, but the workplace was almost entirely in English; both my grandfathers had to speak English with their bosses, as they spoke not a word of French.
If you look at old archive films of Montreal from the 40s, 50s and 60s, you can see an extremely high amount of English only signs.
[/quote]
i’m not gonna take your word for it just because you share some personal anecdote. quebec has always been, and always will be, predominantly french. discriminatory language laws aren’t necessary to preserve the culture from an over-exaggerated threat. regarding english-only signs, i can accept legislation that requires french signs be posted in addition to english signs. but laws preventing ANY english on ANY signs are unacceptable. you will not change my mind that the majority of culture preservation must be done at the grassroots level and not through discriminatory legislation.
it is the government’s job to carry out the will of the people ONLY if the people’s will is legal and constitutional. if 75% of the population wants to expel the other 25% of the population, is that ok? no. and even if the majority of quebecers fall for the quebec-nationalist propaganda culture-saving bullshit, discriminatory language laws are still… discriminatory. and quebec is still part of canada and must concede to the will of the supreme court. unfortunately, not enough right decicisons were made through this entire controversy. canada seems to tolerate quebec’s fucked up behavior in regards to separatism and language discrimination.
[quote]
Yes it would be, but that’s not what the law requires. You can use whatever language you wish, but French has to be present and predominant. After that, you’re free to list all the other languages you want.[/quote]
i guess we can agree to disagree on this. i don’t think private businesses should be regulated to have french signs as the predominant language.
i’m not familiar with that situation, so i won’t comment. in the public sphere language regulation is required. but i am strongly against government regulation in the private sphere in this regard. so if you’re talking about government regulation requiring a professional football game to sing an anthem only in english, then i would be strongly against such a law.
[b]As it gets more and more “diffused” you eventually end up being completely assimilated.[/quote]
culture preservation must occur at the grassroots level. chinese schools, chinese restaraunts, chinese movie theatres, chinese arts, chinese food stores, chinese EVRYTHING is available in vancouver. i can give countless examples of minorities fending for themselves. can quebec not do the same? i think quebec can do just fine. they have a well established social infrastructure. the discriminatory laws are unnecessary and just really a front for an elitist way of thinking.
only if the desires are consitutional.
with discriminatory laws against the english speaking minority which ran contrary to the constitution. i will concede that i understand quebec’s desire to preserve the language and the culture. i simply take issue with how it’s going about accomplishing this, the ‘any means necessary’ attitude.
i didn’t mean that quebec was murdering people a la saddam hussein, it’s simply a political phrase, ‘the tyranny of the majority’.
[quote]We wanted a bit more than to “preserve our culture at the grassroots” level. I’m sure you like being able to go to work and speak your mother tongue? Or go to the store and be able to read signs and labels?
If everytime you set foot out of your house, you had to use a language other than english, would you be OK with that? Would you accept it, content that you can preserve your “grassroots English culture” at home?[/quote]
since when could quebecers NOT have access to french service from the government or in the private sphere? it’s always been the dominant language of quebec and always will be. you’re making shit up. quebecers were hardly ever ‘suffering’ from lack of english knowledge. and might i might remind you, resources for english education are normally largely available.
i was referring to quebec’s anti-english language laws regarding signage.
let me just say this, pookie and engamer i think you two are very intelligent guys. as is varqanir and liftic. it’s nice to see this type of quality of forum members on T-Nation.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
are we going to make the same changes for the hundreds of thousands of chinese immigrants that arrived to canada in the past 20 years?
[/quote]
Nope. No need. They are immigrants, and learning a new language and trying to fit in is part of the expectation of immigrants everywhere. That is a miserable strawman you’ve got there! The Quebecois, on the other hand, are part of what defines Canada culturally. And 25% of the population is a chunk. For example, I don’t think we’ve quite reached 25% Spanish speakers even in California, yet you can get through a lot of routine government business in many parts of the state without a word of English. As the guy who started this thread was trying to point out. [quote]
with quebec, it is a outright rejection of english. with the faulty argument of culture preservation. governments, if truly egalitarian, do not play favorites with culture. [/quote]
I’m not in favor of laws regulating what languages people use, other than for government business. I merely think Canada probably rates having two official languages, given its history. Telling shopkeepers they have to put up signs in French is either unneccessary, or futile.
[quote]
that’s the problem, though. quebec sees itself as a separate country. and it isn’t. and since it’s not a separate country, it cannot legally pass laws that discriminate against english.[/quote]
Well, I’m sure each province has its own laws. I imagine the question is whether such laws as you describe would be constitutional. If the laws left untouched the official status of English for purposes of doing business with the government, it would seem to come down to how your constitution parses freedom of speech.
My question would be, has Quebecois sentiment for separatism waxed or waned since French was declared an official language?
Nope. No need. They are immigrants, and learning a new language and trying to fit in is part of the expectation of immigrants everywhere. That is a miserable strawman you’ve got there! The Quebecois, on the other hand, are part of what defines Canada culturally. And 25% of the population is a chunk. For example, I don’t think we’ve quite reached 25% Spanish speakers even in California, yet you can get through a lot of routine government business in many parts of the state without a word of English. As the guy who started this thread was trying to point out.
[/quote]
it’s not a strawman argument. you must also remember that the vast majority of french speakers are concentrated in one province. it doesn’t make sense to offer government services in both french and english at the national level. i can understrand provincial and municipal laws regulating french be used in addition to english for government business, but it makes no sense on a national level.
and i really am not a big fan of people making an indigeneous claim to privilege. the whole ‘we were here first and we constitute canada’s history is such bullshit’. canada is a lot different than back then, and i don’t feel like being stuck in a time machine.
and it’s less than 25%.
i agree 100%.
[quote]Well, I’m sure each province has its own laws. I imagine the question is whether such laws as you describe would be constitutional. If the laws left untouched the official status of English for purposes of doing business with the government, it would seem to come down to how your constitution parses freedom of speech.
My question would be, has Quebecois sentiment for separatism waxed or waned since French was declared an official language?
[/quote]
quebec is about 50% is favor of sovereignty. guaranteed it’s the rural, uneducated poorer areas of quebec that are in favor separatism. those kinda people, much like your stereotypical rednecks in southern states, are always easy victims for nationalistic/exclusionary policies/propaganda.
the desire for separatism has probably been about the same for the past 25 years.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
what about an arabic speaking canadian? or a mandarin speaking canadian? or a russian speaking canadian? you know what they have the right to do? they have the right to learn english.[/quote]
Yes they do. There’s nothing preventing them from learning English.
Those rights where granted at the foundation of what would eventually become modern Canada.
Concessions where made back then to keep the peace (the Quebec Act of 1774) you can’t simply back out of them when they later appear inconvenient.
Personally, I think a lot of things would be a lot simpler with an English Canada separate from a French Quebec. We could do each do our own things as we see fit, and a lot of ridiculous bickering would be avoided.
Those other minorities are not recognized as one of the two founding nations.
Nonetheless, if any of those minority where to congregate in one province to the point where they form the provincial majority, they’re would be little to prevent them from doing exactly what Quebec is doing.
If a Mandarin speaking community is large enough to be able to vote their members into parliament, what’s to stop them from passing exactly that kind of law?
I don’t disagree. What I find odd is that you seem to recognized English as being the legitimate language of Canada and see no problem in forcing immigrants to learn it; yet when the same situation is presented with Quebec and French, you apply different standards.
[quote]however, language laws in quebec are discriminatory and arguably unconstitutional.
i mean come on, they create barriers for parents to send their own children to english-schools. how fucked up and intolerant is that?[/quote]
Actually, parents are free to send their children to english school if either one of the parents has received a majority of his education in english.
The law is mostly discriminatory toward French couples, who have no choice but to send their children to French school.
I’m not sure of the exact proportions, but yes, French must be dominant.
If I remember right, the reason given for that particular requirement is that often French is more verbose than English, which meant that the font used for French was smaller. A lot of evil intent is read into what was basically a pragmatic solution to the problem.
French only signs are mostly prevalent in the regions outside Montreal.
Ok. And?
Again, this goes back to concession made hundreds of years ago between the two founding people. Your forefathers could’ve fought mine to the bitter end, had they chosen to do so. The king of France had pretty much washed his hands of us, preferring to keep Guadeloupe over Nouvelle-France.
The Quebec Act of 1774 made a bunch of concessions regarding language, laws and faith all to prevent unrest from plunging the nascent country in civil war. English Canada has been trying to back out of the deal since then. I’m not against it; like I said, I think a lot of things would be a lot easier if Canada was actually two separate countries, rather than this odd shoehorning arrangement we’ve been living in.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
canada is a lot different than back then, and i don’t feel like being stuck in a time machine.
[/quote]
I can’t imagine that being a problem, I mean Canada not changing over time. When it comes to national identity however everybody does expect a degree of continuity, and a lot of gate-keeping goes on, so yes there is a certain kind of precedence operating.
Let’s say 250 million Chinese speakers somehow emigrated to Canada over the next five years, and land not just in BC, but all over. Would you be prepared to deal with the local magistrate through a Cantonese interpreter at the point where English preference drops to less than 50% of the population? If your answer is either “we wouldn’t let that immigration happen” or “English forever and screw the Chinese” it seems to me you are actually committed to the idea of historical precedence, but for whatever reason you’re not willing to extend the favor to the Quebecois.
I think it’s really more about national identity than historical precedence, but the two things are not unrelated.
Yes they do. There’s nothing preventing them from learning English.[/quote]
what i’m saying is that the french majority does not deserve special treatment ABOVE the treatment of other language minorities in canada. french should NOT be a federal second language, considering french is pretty much exclusive to quebec in the canadian context.
i’m against special treatment for minorities which implies discrimination to other minorities. and the whole ‘we were here first’ bullshit needs to stop. canada is a country of immigrants much more than it is of anglophone and francophone descendants. those canadians who have descended from the original founding families which were predominantly french and british are now the small minority in canada.
[quote]Those rights where granted at the foundation of what would eventually become modern Canada.
Concessions where made back then to keep the peace (the Quebec Act of 1774) you can’t simply back out of them when they later appear inconvenient.[/quote]
what rights were granted in 1774? certainly not the ‘rights’ to make french an official NATIONAL language and the ‘rights’ to discriminate against english in the private sphere. these came around the 1970s and later.
it’s not that simple, maybe if we could snap our fingers and have it all done, but to give quebec away to sovereignty to satisfy elitist nationalists is never a good thing. and that’s what it comes down to, it’s not about culture preservation, it’s about resentment of all things non-french and a way for politicians to connect simple populist messages to uneducated idiots. politicians take advantage of these fools to claim power. there is no serious threat to french culture that cannot be addressed through dedication and coordination at the grassroots level.
Those other minorities are not recognized as one of the two founding nations.
fuck the two founding nations. you really think it’s a good idea to have that sense of entitlement based on ancestry? canada has changed a lot since the 1800s, and we’re a lot more diverse than simply british and french colonists. i am strongly opposed to maintaining the status quo on the ‘we were here first’ argument. fuck unearned privelege.
well, that’s democracy for you. but again, provinicial democracy must adhere to the national constitution under which it belongs. all other provinces are more diverse, though. without even checking the stats i’m sure most canadian emigrants go to places in canada other than quebec. and that a large share of immigration to quebec comes from former french colonies… i.e. haiti and algeria.
the constitution prevents them from passing a discriminatory law.
let’s take a hypothetical example, let’s say city a over time develops a population composed of 35% arabic speakers. lets say this 35% is strongly politically motivated and votes in a city council which is strongly committed to offering many government services in arabic. that’s fine. that’s ethical.
but if that same minority, or even if it was a 75% arabic MAJORITY, went out of it’s way to take english AWAY from government services, at the expense of english speaking minority and in contradiction of the official national language <municipal courts are lower than federal courts, we understand this, and there must be coordination between municipal and higher levels of government, NECESSITATING a common language: english>, this would be wrong. that’s what quebec has tried to do with some success.
well, first of all they weren’t MY forefather. my parents are russian emigrants. i’m strongly against government regulation of culture.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
i’m not gonna take your word for it just because you share some personal anecdote. quebec has always been, and always will be, predominantly french.[/quote]
I agree that the majority of the population has always been French. But at one time, the majority of businesses and industries in Quebec where under English management. Constant english immersion at the workplace eventually favors assimilation.
Yes, and that has been rectified since.
Probably not. But I doubt you can really understand the reality of being part of a 7 million minority sharing a continent with an over 300 million majority.
While you might not feel that French was in any danger at any time, it simply happened that the French population felt itself to be in danger of assimilation. Maybe we were wrong, but legal steps were taken to make sure French was preserved as much as possible.
Constitutions can be amended. Quebec has not ratified the Canadian constitution yet, anyway.
That was another lovely episode in English-French relations in this country. Signing documents at night with no representative from Quebec present really makes us feel part of Canada.
Are you aware of presently unconstitutional laws that have gone unchallenged?
Don’t you find it a bit odd that in this dispute, all the wrongs are on the side of Quebec?
Maybe Canada should hold a referendum on kicking us out, no?
Nobody is forcing them to stay in Quebec. They can relocate to any other province, where they’ll be free from our “tyranny.”
Why? Governments regulate myriads of other facets of private business. Why should language be exempt?
Ok. Do you think the slowly dwindling English majority will eventually take steps to protect their language and culture? Or are you looking forward to eventually visiting Chinese Columbia?
Even that example is not entirely accurate, since even if Chinese became the dominant language and culture of BC, the rest of North America would still be predominantly English. The culture and language would be in no danger.
I thought that was what we where doing? Is it our methods you don’t like?
In everyday life, those laws are not a major concern for all involved, I assure you.
Amendments, remember?
Most of the measure that could be viewed as excessive have since been scaled back; many compromises have been made since the 70s and early 80s when most of the over-the-top legislation was in full force.
I don’t think we make it hard to be an anglophone in Quebec. I’ll bet it’s a lot harder to be a francophone in Manitoba (which has about 5% of French population)
Don’t take my word for it, do your own research. If you were working in Montreal in the 40s, 50s and most of the 60s, chances where that you spoke english at work. Unless you where on a farm or some other rural occupation.
Most french speaker had to be bilingual just to get a job.
That’s the whole point, isn’t it? We didn’t want to have to learn another language to be able to hold a job, when we were the majority population.
Government services in french where not enough, we wanted to be able to conduct business and go to work while speaking french.
You’re referring to laws that don’t apply anymore; or that have since been amended to allow english (or other languages) to appear, conditional to french being predominant.
[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
canada is a lot different than back then, and i don’t feel like being stuck in a time machine.
I can’t imagine that being a problem, I mean Canada not changing over time. When it comes to national identity however everybody does expect a degree of continuity, and a lot of gate-keeping goes on, so yes there is a certain kind of precedence operating.
Let’s say 250 million Chinese speakers somehow emigrated to Canada over the next five years, and land not just in BC, but all over. Would you be prepared to deal with the local magistrate through a Cantonese interpreter at the point where English preference drops to less than 50% of the population? If your answer is either “we wouldn’t let that immigration happen” or “English forever and screw the Chinese” it seems to me you are actually committed to the idea of historical precedence, but for whatever reason you’re not willing to extend the favor to the Quebecois.
I think it’s really more about national identity than historical precedence, but the two things are not unrelated.[/quote]
wait, you’re being unfair here. first of all, you’re giving a hypothetical that is impossible.
it wouldn’t be allowed simply because we cannot have that kind of crippling effect on our society. of course SOME degree of continuity is important, and in order to allow ciitizens to deal with one another, there is some effort to maintain the status quo. english becoming dominant isn’t just a canadian or north-american phenomenon. it’s global.
but if 250 million immigrants from china did come in and were given citizenship, and didn’t speak a word of english, you can bet it’d be a matter of time before mandarin and/or cantonese became official languages. and this would be ethical and democratic. i wouldn’t be happy, but hey…
you’re not going to succeed in trying to make me out to be holding a double-standard. i’m not a hypocrite.
I know most French speaking Canadians live in Quebec. It seems to me however that if they can only transact with their government in French while in Quebec, that this puts them at a disadvantage as Canadians.
It also seems to me that providing a modest level of support for doing business in French in most government offices need not be the same as demanding that all civil servants speak French. Small offices in predominately English speaking areas could make do with remote bilingual operators, since in these places the demand for service in French will be very low.