[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I share your hope. I’d love to have a real debate over real issues. [/quote]
I can’t figure out how to turn this into a disagreement without nullifying the point I tried to raise throughout this thread. I think we’ll both have to accept the fact that we, once again, ended up agreeing. We’ll have to do a better job making sure this stops happening. It’s unnerving!
The full text of the speech can be found here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/PreparedSchoolRemarks/
On the surface, it seems benign, but the underlying statist message is still there. Stay in school and work hard, not for your own personal happiness, but for the good of the country. This is the evil that I will have to be deprogramming my daughter from tonight. Her life is hers, not the countries or Obamas.
Frankly, I’m not sure why Republicans would mind, they have the same attitude. You should live for the good of God, or the country and collective, not your own happiness. Same statist attitude, different political party.
I notice he threw in a few plugs for environmentalism and so-called social justice type issues. I also love how he’s crediting himself with getting the books and equipment our children need in order to learn. Last I knew, that came out of my property taxes!
Basic message: We need you to get an education so that if you don’t work for government somehow, you can be successful in the work place and we can steal your hard earned money to keep us in power and you enslaved.
Outtakes:
[quote]You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You’ll need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy.
We need every single one of you to develop your talents, skills and intellect so you can help solve our most difficult problems. If you don’t do that - if you quit on school - you’re not just quitting on yourself, you’re quitting on your country.[/quote]
Here’s where he sound’s like the concerned parent who’d providing everything:
this will be an excellent opportunity for obama to make his critics look totally absurd. All he has to do now is give a completely vanilla “dont do drugs” & “Stay in School” speech and all his detractors will look like idiots.
I was uncomfortable with the activity packs as well, but the reality is that my school experience led to a lot of indoctrination towards the left side of the political spectrum. Really, another one from the president would not have made a difference.
[quote]ds1973 wrote:
The full text of the speech can be found here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/PreparedSchoolRemarks/
On the surface, it seems benign, but the underlying statist message is still there. Stay in school and work hard, not for your own personal happiness, but for the good of the country. This is the evil that I will have to be deprogramming my daughter from tonight. Her life is hers, not the countries or Obamas.
Frankly, I’m not sure why Republicans would mind, they have the same attitude. You should live for the good of God, or the country and collective, not your own happiness. Same statist attitude, different political party.
I notice he threw in a few plugs for environmentalism and so-called social justice type issues. I also love how he’s crediting himself with getting the books and equipment our children need in order to learn. Last I knew, that came out of my property taxes!
Basic message: We need you to get an education so that if you don’t work for government somehow, you can be successful in the work place and we can steal your hard earned money to keep us in power and you enslaved.
Outtakes:
You’ll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You’ll need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You’ll need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy.
We need every single one of you to develop your talents, skills and intellect so you can help solve our most difficult problems. If you don’t do that - if you quit on school - you’re not just quitting on yourself, you’re quitting on your country.
Here’s where he sound’s like the concerned parent who’d providing everything:
I’m working hard to fix up your classrooms and get you the books, equipment and computers you need to learn. But you’ve got to do your part too. So I expect you to get serious this year. I expect you to put your best effort into everything you do. I expect great things from each of you. So don’t let us down - don’t let your family or your country or yourself down. Make us all proud. I know you can do it.
[/quote]
Just read “anthem” this weekend. I take it you’ve already read that one…
[quote]koffea wrote:
I was uncomfortable with the activity packs as well, but the reality is that my school experience led to a lot of indoctrination towards the left side of the political spectrum. Really, another one from the president would not have made a difference.
[/quote]
Keep quiet, you parental fruitcake! The government and childless Intarwebz peeps noes what’s best for your kids!
[i]Mr. Obama, safe behind the presidential shield, nevertheless got a taste of constituent anger at a distance when he tried to recruit America’s schoolkids into the Obama cult of hope, change, peace and other vaguely good stuff. Write a letter to yourself, his Education Ministry told the kids in “a lesson plan” distributed to classrooms across the country, and tell the president what you can do to help him. The operative word here, clearly, is “him.” This sounded a lot like a cult of presidential personality to millions of American parents - the bigots, evildoers and Nazis of the fevered and frightened Democratic imagination. Promote your agenda, but not with my kids, the parents told the White House, loud and clear.
The White House, first dismissing the protests as “silly” and pretending that Mr. Obama’s speech was really only about hand-washing and good toilet etiquette, finally backed down with the familiar explanation that “we didn’t do it and we won’t do it again (at least until next time).” Arne Duncan, the secretary of education, offered a “clarification” that his bureaucrats were only trying to say that the kids should “write a letter about your own goals and what you’re going to do to achieve those goals.” Some “clarification.”
If you can’t trust the teacher to write a simple declarative sentence in the first place, who can you trust? [/i]
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Just read “anthem” this weekend. I take it you’ve already read that one…[/quote]
Try “The Children’s Story”, by James Clavell (Shogun author). A propos.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
John S. wrote:
I don’t get it, after he dropped the activities why are we still talking about this.
What activities do you think he “dropped”?[/quote]
After the speech the kids had to right, How can you help the president achieve his goals. Now regardless if you like Obama or not, that was not ok.
re: textbooks
As if on cue…
Apparently, this aired this weekend, FWIW… (I can already anticipate some responses).
Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV
Part V
[quote]John S. wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
John S. wrote:
I don’t get it, after he dropped the activities why are we still talking about this.
What activities do you think he “dropped”?
After the speech the kids had to right, How can you help the president achieve his goals. Now regardless if you like Obama or not, that was not ok.[/quote]
Why?
This was never much of an issue - the “activity packs” were, I think, a bit of a trial balloon - it is an attempt to get Obama talking on TV about something other than one of the policies or scandals dragging his polling numbers into the can. Obama talking up “stay in school, work hard” was an easy one - everyone can get on board with a safe, banal speech on education.
In one respect, however, Obama has only himself to blame for the instant skepticism of a speech to kids on, well, anything - he has forfeited all claims to being any kind of “moderate” or “centrist” and voters - even the “non-crazies” - are expecting a fairly radical agenda in nearly everything he does.
But some writer made a great point (can’t remember who) - only thing this will do is make kids think the president is just one more suited windbag, just like any politician who’d do the same.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Just read “anthem” this weekend. I take it you’ve already read that one…[/quote]
Why yes I have. I’ve read most of Ayn Rands books (fiction and non).
[quote]Sloth wrote:
John S. wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
John S. wrote:
I don’t get it, after he dropped the activities why are we still talking about this.
What activities do you think he “dropped”?
After the speech the kids had to right, How can you help the president achieve his goals. Now regardless if you like Obama or not, that was not ok.
Why?[/quote]
Keep politics out of school. His speech is good, and as long as it stays that way he can repeat this speech every day to the kids for all I care.
The people overreacting to this look like idiots. Sorry. they are also coming across about as UNpatriotic as you can get considering this is the fucking PRESIDENT and I seriously doubt this would have been tolerated for ANY speech given by Bush about kids in school.
Congrats. You right wingers sure are doing a great job of being so…“elitist”.
[quote]John S. wrote:
Sloth wrote:
John S. wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
John S. wrote:
I don’t get it, after he dropped the activities why are we still talking about this.
What activities do you think he “dropped”?
After the speech the kids had to right, How can you help the president achieve his goals. Now regardless if you like Obama or not, that was not ok.
Why?
Keep politics out of school. His speech is good, and as long as it stays that way he can repeat this speech every day to the kids for all I care.
[/quote]
LOL. My guess is, kids learned a lot more from this (the hyper-reaction to this speech) than some of you realize.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Eyebrows raised for a “be cool stay in school” speech? I’m sure they thought crazies would cry havoc, not sure the administration thought it would catch on so much.
Now will you answer my question? I honestly have no clue what you were trying to say, it came across quite absurd.
I’m not sure why ‘absurd’… buuut…
Knowing the Prez anticipated backlash, and given all the rhetoric about ‘transparency’, why didn’t they just release the speech with the announcement for the schools to send to parents for review.
The proper M.O. would have been:
Prez: “Parents, I’m going to speak directly to your kids, here is what I’m going to say.”
Parents: “Oh, OK, thanks” (or, “OK, my kid will be absent that day”)
No, what it was was:
Prez: “Parents, I am going to speak directly to your kids.”
Parents: “What are you going to say?”
Prez: “QUESTION ME??!!!? You’re CRAZY!!”
“Common sense” from a parent of young kids to parents of other young kids would be to make your intentions known up front-- always, no matter how ‘harmless’. [/quote]
I mean…what if he RAPED them?
[quote]John S. wrote:
Sloth wrote:
John S. wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
John S. wrote:
I don’t get it, after he dropped the activities why are we still talking about this.
What activities do you think he “dropped”?
After the speech the kids had to right, How can you help the president achieve his goals. Now regardless if you like Obama or not, that was not ok.
Why?
Keep politics out of school. His speech is good, and as long as it stays that way he can repeat this speech every day to the kids for all I care.
[/quote]
Bullshit. When Reagan had his “Just say No” kick and expected all kids to follow suit, not ONE person pulled their kids out of classes for the speech and no one acted like this.
It is funny how this is playing out. Yet, of course, this is all about politics and no other reasons are why people are acting like this on a mass scale.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
The people overreacting to this look like idiots. Sorry. they are also coming across about as UNpatriotic as you can get considering this is the fucking PRESIDENT and I seriously doubt this would have been tolerated for ANY speech given by Bush about kids in school.
Congrats. You right wingers sure are doing a great job of being so…“elitist”.[/quote]
The idea that patriotism equals automatic support for the president is so un-American.
That confuses me for how can someone be un-American and an American patriot at the same time?
[quote]orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The people overreacting to this look like idiots. Sorry. they are also coming across about as UNpatriotic as you can get considering this is the fucking PRESIDENT and I seriously doubt this would have been tolerated for ANY speech given by Bush about kids in school.
Congrats. You right wingers sure are doing a great job of being so…“elitist”.
The idea that patriotism equals automatic support for the president is so un-American.
That confuses me for how can someone be un-American and an American patriot at the same time?[/quote]
For 8 years we were informed that we were unpatriotic if we didn’t support Bush and the war. It is funny how things change.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The people overreacting to this look like idiots. Sorry. they are also coming across about as UNpatriotic as you can get considering this is the fucking PRESIDENT and I seriously doubt this would have been tolerated for ANY speech given by Bush about kids in school.
Congrats. You right wingers sure are doing a great job of being so…“elitist”.
The idea that patriotism equals automatic support for the president is so un-American.
That confuses me for how can someone be un-American and an American patriot at the same time?
For 8 years we were informed that we were unpatriotic if we didn’t support Bush and the war. It is funny how things change.[/quote]
It never changed.
The claim was BS then and still is now.
I still believe though that a true American patriot must tar and feather a tax collector at least once in his live, similar to the Hadj for a true Muslim.