Pres Debate: 10/16/2012

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
322

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Many of the Obama voters are voting for Obama because they want the government to either give them something, or keep giving them something. I am supporting Mitt Romney because I want less from government. And I want to be able to keep more of my hard earned money.

Please take less from me federal government.[/quote]

ZEB, you know I respect you, and your posts are typically on the money.

And I’m not defending this mindset, but it seems only reasonable to me that the “haves” would want to keep what they have, and the “have nots” would like to get more any way they can.

I’m not necessarily saying that your view would be different if you were a “have not,” but your wish for “less from government” would be more persuasive if that were the case.

Not really sure what I’m getting at, except maybe a kind of “What else would you expect?”
[/quote]

Here’s what I would expect,

A President who does not cater to the very base instincts of those who “do not have”. But one who would create opportunities for those less fortunate. And at the same time stop blaming those of us who have succeeded for the problems of those less fortunate. If opportunities can be created both people like me and those who are less fortunate can achieve even more. No one has to be punished everyone can win!

In other words, stop handing those who have not yet succeeded an excuse not to succeed by claiming it’s the fault of those who have succeeded. It might make good political theater but it’s a detestable way to attract votes for a President of the United States, and in fact doesn’t even make sense!

323

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Now I have a question for you.

Why would any small business owner, such as myself do anything other than cut wages, raise prices and hunker down and not expand with Obama as President?
[/quote]

Not to mention for some of them cutting wages isn’t enough and they have to cut jobs. And forget hiring.

I also love what countingbeans said about your raise going to the IRS lol. It amazes me how many people don’t realize that.

324

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Now I have a question for you.

Why would any small business owner, such as myself do anything other than cut wages, raise prices and hunker down and not expand with Obama as President?
[/quote]

Not to mention for some of them cutting wages isn’t enough and they have to cut jobs. And forget hiring.

I also love what countingbeans said about your raise going to the IRS lol. It amazes me how many people don’t realize that.[/quote]

Well, maybe that’s our job. I know that on a daily basis I reach out to as many people as possible and let them know exactly what I’ll be doing should Obama win another four years. You and everyone who is reading this can do the same thing.

Get the word out and one person at a time maybe we can make a difference especially in a close election.

325

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Not really sure what I’m getting at, except maybe a kind of “What else would you expect?”
[/quote]

I would expect people to let go of this false notion that life is “fair”. I would also expect grown people in 2012 to come to grips with the fact life isn’t, never was and never will be easy.

I expect people to look at those with more than they do, and challenge themselves to get to that point and beyond. Not tear down others to their level to feel better about themselves.

You can accomplish anything in America. No one ever said you weren’t going to have to work for it.

326

[quote]csulli wrote:

I also love what countingbeans said about your raise going to the IRS lol. It amazes me how many people don’t realize that.[/quote]

Yup.

Look I’ll be the first to admit the “job creators” talking point goes too far as it is generally spoken.

But the talking point is the only part of the ideal that isn’t sound. The general notion is 100% correct.

No we shouldn’t just funnel money to the top 1% of income earners, but we don’t as it is, and never, ever have. The only people that believe that are people that don’t understand the IRC, or haven’t looked at the data.

The whole notion of “fair share” and all that non-sense, and where many liberals miss the forest for the trees is the idiotic idea that the pie is only ever going to be as big as it is now. This is dumb beyond reason and shows a lack of historical knowledge. The pie can be grown.

327

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I realized this morning, and I don’t think anyone has talked about it, that if President Obama did in fact mean to refer to Libya as an act of terror in the Rose Garden, wouldn’t that be even worse for him politically?

The President of the United States went campaigning the day after a terrorist attack on U.S. soilthat resulted in the death of America citizens.

Why isn’t this being talked about? [/quote]

Don’t forget about Obama going on talk shows, even Joy Behar asked him if it was an act of terror.

Honestly, from Obama going to Vegas to campaign, to going to these shows, I gather that he banked on the attacks being based on that video made yet still gave 2 shits about the security issue.

Romney missed an opportunity here, he should have called him out, or better yet, waited for Candy to use the unbiased journalism to call him out.

328

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

I also love what countingbeans said about your raise going to the IRS lol. It amazes me how many people don’t realize that.[/quote]

Yup.

Look I’ll be the first to admit the “job creators” talking point goes too far as it is generally spoken.

But the talking point is the only part of the ideal that isn’t sound. The general notion is 100% correct.

No we shouldn’t just funnel money to the top 1% of income earners, but we don’t as it is, and never, ever have. The only people that believe that are people that don’t understand the IRC, or haven’t looked at the data.

The whole notion of “fair share” and all that non-sense, and where many liberals miss the forest for the trees is the idiotic idea that the pie is only ever going to be as big as it is now. This is dumb beyond reason and shows a lack of historical knowledge. The pie can be grown.[/quote]

The Feds gotta find some way to bank roll the # of IRS employees they’ll need for the Obamacare tax.

329

Check out Jon Stewart DESTROY the Obama Libya attacks LOL…

http://nation.foxnews.com/daily-show/2012/10/02/jon-stewart-totally-obliterates-obama-s-libya-response

330

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I own a small business and all I’ve seen over the past four years are rising taxes, more regulation and constant threats by the President of the United States that I am not paying my fair share. And on top of that he spit in my face when he said that “you didn’t build that…someone else did it for you.”

[/quote]

Hope you don’t make more than 250k… With Obama care, and the way ohio looks, all told, according to Kiplinger, you’re looking at a roughtly 10-12% increase in Federal taxes.

Enjoy that.

I’m fucked as well, but not as much as you, lol.[/quote]

My response to a second Obama term should we all be so unlucky to experience will be the same reaction I had to his first term. Stop hiring and stay out of the stock market. In addition to this I’ve already informed my employees that if Obama should win and consequently raise my taxes to punish me because I am a successful small business owner I will lower their wages and raise prices to make up for 2/3rds of the tax hike. I will shoulder the other 1/3rd. No expansion, no hiring, lower wages and higher prices. If that’s the kind of economy that Obama wants I am more than happy to give it to him!

And I assure you there are many, many others just like me who will respond in a similar fashion.

[/quote]

And you’ll do what if Romney wins?

And why?

Mufasa
[/quote]

Expand my business, hire more people and hold prices down.

And the “why” of the matter should seem obvious. In Mitt Romney we will have a President who will not punish success by raising taxes on small businesses.

Can I be any clearer than that?[/quote]

No…

You are actually VERY clear, Zeb.

Mufasa[/quote]

Now I have a question for you.

Why would any small business owner, such as myself do anything other than cut wages, raise prices and hunker down and not expand with Obama as President?

[/quote]

Zeb:

There are things that I can say…and even want to say…but I won’t say.

As a non-business owner, it would be beyond arrogance and hubris for me to comment on how you choose to run your business.

Mufasa

331

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Check out Jon Stewart DESTROY the Obama Libya attacks LOL…

http://nation.foxnews.com/daily-show/2012/10/02/jon-stewart-totally-obliterates-obama-s-libya-response[/quote]

Woah. I know, I know, “oh yeah, you like the guy when he says something you like.” Fair enough. However, that was a pretty good presentation, humor aside. Now, I’ve seen chronologies on this laid out, already. It’s what has fired me up on this issue, in fact. Look, I want some answers.

How is Anderson Cooper and CNN scooping the Administration and our intel services? Well, actually, they (CNN) claim it was intel sources who gave them the scoop. So, you’re telling me there was no early assessment, within 24-48 hours, giving equal weight to the event having been a terrorist attack? Obama was offended? I’m offended at the implication that we don’t deserve answers.

332

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Check out Jon Stewart DESTROY the Obama Libya attacks LOL…

http://nation.foxnews.com/daily-show/2012/10/02/jon-stewart-totally-obliterates-obama-s-libya-response[/quote]

Stewart has in many ways shown up on this issue. In fact I think he’s often more fair than the editorial pages of the NYT. His segment last night on the debate was great, and while it had its fun with Mitt Romney and Fox News, he made basically the same point that I’ve been making: Romney had it in the bag and the ONLY way for him to lose it was to get hung up on a technicality. Implicit in this point is an understanding–unacknowledged by MANY on the left–that the White House’s response to Libya was muddled at best and mendacious at worst.

I know Stewart’s a liberal, but I’ve always thought there was something in him for almost everybody.

333

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Check out Jon Stewart DESTROY the Obama Libya attacks LOL…

http://nation.foxnews.com/daily-show/2012/10/02/jon-stewart-totally-obliterates-obama-s-libya-response[/quote]

Who is this imposter! I want John Stewart and his liberal slant and I want it NOW!..and a free ipad.

334

Today’s Gallup has Romney up 52-45.

335

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Today’s Gallup has Romney up 52-45.[/quote]

Does it seem strange to anyone that Gallup is so far off from every other poll?

336

Rasmussen now has Romney up by 2, with one day of post 2nd debate included.

337

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Today’s Gallup has Romney up 52-45.[/quote]

I see this too has captured a day of post-debate data. It’s too early, as I’d really like to see some polls with nothing but post-debate data. However, with even just one day’s worth, and Romney still picking up a point, this has to have Obama’s team on the verge of all out panic mode.

338

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Not really sure what I’m getting at, except maybe a kind of “What else would you expect?”
[/quote]

I would expect people to let go of this false notion that life is “fair”. I would also expect grown people in 2012 to come to grips with the fact life isn’t, never was and never will be easy.

I expect people to look at those with more than they do, and challenge themselves to get to that point and beyond. Not tear down others to their level to feel better about themselves.

You can accomplish anything in America. No one ever said you weren’t going to have to work for it. [/quote]

well said. The have-nots CHOOSE to be have-nots.

339

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Today’s Gallup has Romney up 52-45.[/quote]

Does it seem strange to anyone that Gallup is so far off from every other poll?
[/quote]

This happens often. Sometimes its some sort of persistent error, sometimes its just statistical variation, and (rarely) a single poll will have an edge over the others. You can expect as respected an agency as Gallup to not have to worry about the first scenario. The numbers will probably return to relative agreement as time goes on.

340

[quote]StevenF wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Not really sure what I’m getting at, except maybe a kind of “What else would you expect?”
[/quote]

I would expect people to let go of this false notion that life is “fair”. I would also expect grown people in 2012 to come to grips with the fact life isn’t, never was and never will be easy.

I expect people to look at those with more than they do, and challenge themselves to get to that point and beyond. Not tear down others to their level to feel better about themselves.

You can accomplish anything in America. No one ever said you weren’t going to have to work for it. [/quote]

well said. The have-nots CHOOSE to be have-nots.
[/quote]

I agree with what Beans said, but this is pushing it. A child is born addicted to opiates every hour in this country. Studies have shown that kids born to addict mothers have a monumentally more difficult time learning even the most basic skills throughout childhood and exhibit much higher rates of all sorts of cognitive deficiencies and mental disabilities. The poor are not always so by choice.