Preppers/Survivalists

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hahaha see, Quasi is bordering on the slightly insane here… a currency collapse is far from “likely” to happen, but even if it did, that’s not a situation where you’re “bugging out to the wilderness” to avoid roving bands of rapists.

Kinda rolling my eyes here.[/quote]

I think it would depend on where you live and how scarce food became. I definitely think societal breakdown could cause that sort of situation. Panic and fear make people do crazy things and make sick people go nuts. I don’t see why it is considered crazy to have a safe location to get to just in case. If you don’t believe in it that is fine or choose not to, but why so much venom and animosity for people who do? They aren’t bothering you and are productive citizens of society you will never have to worry about.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hahaha see, Quasi is bordering on the slightly insane here… a currency collapse is far from “likely” to happen, but even if it did, that’s not a situation where you’re “bugging out to the wilderness” to avoid roving bands of rapists.

Kinda rolling my eyes here.[/quote]

I think it would depend on where you live and how scarce food became. I definitely think societal breakdown could cause that sort of situation. Panic and fear make people do crazy things and make sick people go nuts. I don’t see why it is considered crazy to have a safe location to get to just in case. If you don’t believe in it that is fine or choose not to, but why so much venom and animosity for people who do? They aren’t bothering you and are productive citizens of society you will never have to worry about. [/quote]

Mostly because their vote counts the same as mine does.

Which is kind of disappointing.

This is the kind of slide into lunacy that I’m talking about amongst “preppers,” and it’s just a pain in the ass to wade through all the crazy when you just want good or interesting information on how to be a little more self-reliant, and a little more off the grid.

That’s all.

Just going through what we carried in Iraq (which is pretty urban, actually) that is not usual mil-spec equipment:

Small sledge hammer (like with a 1 1/2 handle). Smashed doorknobs off.

Large sledge (smashed doors we couldn’t shoot or did a two-step).

Really big bolt cutter for locks and chains.

Wrecking bar/pry bar.

We actually pooled our money and bought this stuff from Lowes and had it shipped FedEx to Iraq. Lowes found out what we did and started sending it for free.

All pretty critical, but all very heavy. If I was going to pick an order, it would be the small hammer, followed by the bolt cutter, followed by the pry bar, followed by the big sledge

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Just going through what we carried in Iraq (which is pretty urban, actually) that is not usual mil-spec equipment:

Small sledge hammer (like with a 1 1/2 handle). Smashed doorknobs off.

Large sledge (smashed doors we couldn’t shoot or did a two-step).

Really big bolt cutter for locks and chains.

Wrecking bar/pry bar.

We actually pooled our money and bought this stuff from Lowes and had it shipped FedEx to Iraq. Lowes found out what we did and started sending it for free.

All pretty critical, but all very heavy. If I was going to pick an order, it would be the small hammer, followed by the bolt cutter, followed by the pry bar, followed by the big sledge[/quote]

Good suggestions, especially the sledge. If a tree falls on your house (or a neighbor’s), you never quite know when you’re going to need those sort of tools…

Video 1 is pretty good but the next two don’t really show anything. It would have been nice to see a video of the finished stone fireplace.

Jeremiah Johnson style log cabin:

part 2

part 3

I don’t think my first reaction in an “apocalypse” situation would be “where are the women and children for me to rape”. I don’t think I’m that much different from the average person, self interested but not sociopathic. I lean towards the thought that, contrary to TV scenarios and deep conspiracy/paranoia, in the real world (see civil wars, economic collapse in Argentina, Great Depression, Katrina, Sandy, etc) people just try struggle on like they would have anyway.

Also, I live in Alaska with a bunch of military bases to loot as well as being in a smaller town with a population of everyday survivors who will be the vanguard of the conquering of British Columbia and the creation of Comustan. And my most important survival tool is my laptop as it is the first source of all useful information and planning.

Elk don’t know how many feet a horse has!
~ Bear Claw

Couldn’t resist. Love that part of the movie.

[quote]comus3 wrote:
I don’t think my first reaction in an “apocalypse” situation would be “where are the women and children for me to rape”. I don’t think I’m that much different from the average person, self interested but not sociopathic. I lean towards the thought that, contrary to TV scenarios and deep conspiracy/paranoia, in the real world (see civil wars, economic collapse in Argentina, Great Depression, Katrina, Sandy, etc) people just try struggle on like they would have anyway.
[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember stories of murder and rape in the Superdome during Katrina. I think you over estimate humanity…

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]comus3 wrote:
I don’t think my first reaction in an “apocalypse” situation would be “where are the women and children for me to rape”. I don’t think I’m that much different from the average person, self interested but not sociopathic. I lean towards the thought that, contrary to TV scenarios and deep conspiracy/paranoia, in the real world (see civil wars, economic collapse in Argentina, Great Depression, Katrina, Sandy, etc) people just try struggle on like they would have anyway.
[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember stories of murder and rape in the Superdome during Katrina. I think you over estimate humanity…[/quote]

Looting and violent crime can be pretty prevalent in the wake of huge disasters. I don’t blame anyone for having a gun for self-defense in those situations, especially if they remain in their homes as opposed to evacuating.

Maybe, Maybe not. Just my sense of my motivations and the people I’ve met in life.

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]comus3 wrote:
I don’t think my first reaction in an “apocalypse” situation would be “where are the women and children for me to rape”. I don’t think I’m that much different from the average person, self interested but not sociopathic. I lean towards the thought that, contrary to TV scenarios and deep conspiracy/paranoia, in the real world (see civil wars, economic collapse in Argentina, Great Depression, Katrina, Sandy, etc) people just try struggle on like they would have anyway.
[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember stories of murder and rape in the Superdome during Katrina. I think you over estimate humanity…[/quote]

TA’S AFTERMATH
Katrina Takes a Toll on Truth, News Accuracy
Rumors supplanted accurate information and media magnified the problem. Rapes, violence and estimates of the dead were wrong.
By Susannah Rosenblatt and James Rainey
Times Staff Writers

BATON ROUGE, La.â?? Maj. Ed Bush recalled how he stood in the bed of a pickup truck in the days after Hurricane Katrina, struggling to help the crowd outside the Louisiana Superdome separate fact from fiction. Armed only with a megaphone and scant information, he might have been shouting into, well, a hurricane.

The National Guard spokesman’s accounts about rescue efforts, water supplies and first aid all but disappeared amid the roar of a 24-hour rumor mill at New Orleans’ main evacuation shelter. Then a frenzied media recycled and amplified many of the unverified reports.

“It just morphed into this mythical place where the most unthinkable deeds were being done,” Bush said Monday of the Superdome.

His assessment is one of several in recent days to conclude that newspapers and television exaggerated criminal behavior in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, particularly at the overcrowded Superdome and Convention Center.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune on Monday described inflated body counts, unverified “rapes,” and unconfirmed sniper attacks as among examples of “scores of myths about the dome and Convention Center treated as fact by evacuees, the media and even some of New Orleans’ top officials.”

Indeed, Mayor C. Ray Nagin told a national television audience on “Oprah” three weeks ago of people “in that frickin’ Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people.”

Journalists and officials who have reviewed the Katrina disaster blamed the inaccurate reporting in large measure on the breakdown of telephone service, which prevented dissemination of accurate reports to those most in need of the information. Race may have also played a factor.

The wild rumors filled the vacuum and seemed to gain credence with each retelling â?? that an infant’s body had been found in a trash can, that sharks from Lake Pontchartrainwere swimming through the business district, that hundreds of bodies had been stacked in the Superdome basement.

“It doesn’t take anything to start a rumor around here,” Louisiana National Guard 2nd Lt. Lance Cagnolatti said at the height of the Superdome relief effort. “There’s 20,000 people in here. Think when you were in high school. You whisper something in someone’s ear. By the end of the day, everyone in school knows the rumor â?? and the rumor isn’t the same thing it was when you started it.”

Follow-up reporting has discredited reports of a 7-year-old being raped and murdered at the Superdome, roving bands of armed gang members attacking the helpless, and dozens of bodies being shoved into a freezer at the Convention Center.

Hyperbolic reporting spread through much of the media.

Fox News, a day before the major evacuation of the Superdome began, issued an “alert” as talk show host Alan Colmes reiterated reports of “robberies, rapes, carjackings, riots and murder. Violent gangs are roaming the streets at night, hidden by the cover of darkness.”

The Los Angeles Times adopted a breathless tone the next day in its lead news story, reporting that National Guard troops “took positions on rooftops, scanning for snipers and armed mobs as seething crowds of refugees milled below, desperate to flee. Gunfire crackled in the distance.”

The New York Times repeated some of the reports of violence and unrest, but the newspaper usually was more careful to note that the information could not be verified.

The tabloid OttawaSun reported unverified accounts of “a man seeking help gunned down by a National Guard soldier” and “a young man run down and then shot by a New Orleanspolice officer.”

London’s Evening Standard invoked the future-world fantasy film “Mad Max” to describe the scene and threw in a “Lord of the Flies” allusion for good measure.

Televised images and photographs affirmed the widespread devastation in one of America’s most celebrated cities.

“I don’t think you can overstate how big of a disaster New Orleansis,” said Kelly McBride, ethics group leader at the Poynter Institute, a Floridaschool for professional journalists. “But you can imprecisely state the nature of the disaster. â?¦ Then you draw attention away from the real story, the magnitude of the destruction, and you kind of undermine the media’s credibility.”

Times-Picayune Editor Jim Amoss cited telephone breakdowns as a primary cause of reporting errors, but said the fact that most evacuees were poor African Americans also played a part.

“If the dome and Convention Center had harbored large numbers of middle class white people,” Amoss said, “it would not have been a fertile ground for this kind of rumor-mongering.”

Some of the hesitation that journalists might have had about using the more sordid reports from the evacuation centers probably fell away when New Orleans’ top officials seemed to confirm the accounts.

Nagin and Police Chief Eddie Compass appeared on “Oprah” a few days after trouble at the Superdome had peaked.

Compass told of “the little babies getting raped” at the Superdome. And Nagin made his claim about hooligans raping and killing.

State officials this week said their counts of the dead at the city’s two largest evacuation points fell far short of early rumors and news reports. Ten bodies were recovered from the Superdome and four from the Convention Center, said Bob Johannessen, spokesman for the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals.

(National Guard officials put the body count at the Superdome at six, saying the other four bodies came from the area around the stadium.)

Of the 841 recorded hurricane-related deaths in Louisiana, four are identified as gunshot victims, Johannessen said. One victim was found in the Superdome but was believed to have been brought there, and one was found at the Convention Center, he added.

Relief workers said that while the media hyped criminal activity, plenty of real suffering did occur at the Katrina relief centers.

“The hurricane had just passed, you had massive trauma to the city,” said Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard.

“No air conditioning, no sewage â?¦ it was not a nice place to be. All those people just in there, they were frustrated, they were hot. Out of all that chaos, all of these rumors start flying.”

Louisiana National Guard Col. Thomas Beron, who headed security at the Superdome, said that for every complaint, "49 other people said, ‘Thank you, God bless you.’ "

The media inaccuracies had consequences in the disaster zone.

Bush, of the National Guard, said that reports of corpses at the Superdome filtered back to the facility via AM radio, undermining his struggle to keep morale up and maintain order.

“We had to convince people this was still the best place to be,” Bush said. “What I saw in the Superdome was just tremendous amounts of people helping people.”

But, Bush said, those stories received scant attention in newspapers or on television.

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

Majority of people would perish, you either get nasty real quick, have luck on your side that amassing stuff in a certain area was a good idea or you never really needed humanity at all and it wont make a blind bit of difference.

[/quote]

I completely agree that if a situation like the one you are describing happens the vast majority of people, including many well-prepared people, would be screwed. Having said that, I’m an optimistic guy and I feel that one may as well prepare a little and improve their basic survival skills - it can’t hurt.

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Furo, you are right that humanity did climb from the muck, but your reasoning also requires that you have faith in humanity, I unfortunately do not.[/quote]

I think we are on the same page to be honest, if an apocalyptic situation like the one you described happens and humanity does go down the pan, I agree that it will take a very very long time (generations probably) for it to be restored in any way. However, I really don’t forsee anything quite so dramatic happening, and my point was simply that even if it does, I think I could still enjoy life.

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
Another thing I forgot to add.

Weight issues. Many folks on here weight train and have added weight to themselves that would not be sustainable in these conditions. You need to be able to move and move quickly over all sorts of terrain.[/quote]

I agree with this. I’m personally big on kettlebells and weighted bodyweight movements, and I’m not trying to get huge, so hopefully my training style would suit me ok.

That raises another interesting related question: how would you train, physically, for an apocalyptic-type situation?

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Haha nice! So you probably won’t have to bring food along for her - because she provides that on her own.

Must be a rather big cat to take down rabbits. Main Coone?[/quote]

Maine Coons are actually not that big, they just have alot of fur. And the wild bunnies we have around here are about the size of a cat, maybe a little smaller but they are vicious creatures. I can’t imagine a cat taking one down.[/quote]

I’ve seen a medium-sized black cat take down a hare before, and my ferrets often take fully grown male rabbits that weigh twice as much as them.

I think that if you can spare the food and shelter, small hunting animals would be extremely useful.

Okay we are starting to repeat ourselves when it comes to supplies. Here is a list I have put together based on input from this thread. Maybe the OP can edit his first post so this appears on page 1. that way people can just add what they don’t see.

A party of you and your 6-20 closest friends should assemble:
Flashlights
Batteries (AA and AAA)
First Aid kits - bandages, gauze, sutcher stitches, dis-infectant, neosporin, Surgical gloves
Sowing Kit
Compass
Bottled Water (as much as possible
Water purification pills
Non-perishable foods, high calorie (as much as possible)
Matches
Other fire making supplies
Knife
Letherman pocket tool
Maps (preferable waterproof)
GPS
Small sledge hammer (like with a 1 1/2 handle)
Large sledge
Axe
Really big bolt cutter for locks and chains.
Prybar
Mylar Emergency Blanket
Mil-Spec 550 Cord
Cash (gold or silver preferred)
Rain gear
Wool socks (multiple pair)
Stocking cap
Polypropylene long underwear
Polyester fleece jacket
Gloves
2 small metal buckets
2 washcloths
Powdered/flake soap
Wool blankets
Shotgun (at the very least, prefer 1 gun per party member)
Sh*t-ton of ammo
Fishing gear (Including extra fishing line)
Somthing to boil water in
Sleeping bags
Assorted camp equipment
Toilet Paper
Medicine
Rocket stove
A Defender w/ snorkel
Maine Coon Cat (but only if it feeds itself)
Hyenas or Baboons (but only if it feeds itself)
Ferrets (but only if it feeds itself)

Great idea JLone, I’ve edited the OP.

I live in a house I finished and insulated (with llama wool from my ranch actually) and is heated by a wood stove. Losing power doesn’t frighten me as I’ve been through several blizzards in this house, or in a shittier hut. My dad and I ranch so food is not a problem, I worry about looters more than anything. Luckily we live in bumfuck and can see for a ways. Lots of natural resources as well.

Ruffian, thats badass your place backs up to Lincoln, I’ve got the Weminuche wildness on the southeast edge of the ranch. I am fairly certain no one will be coming from that way, haha.

[quote]JLone wrote:
Okay we are starting to repeat ourselves when it comes to supplies. Here is a list I have put together based on input from this thread. Maybe the OP can edit his first post so this appears on page 1. that way people can just add what they don’t see.

A party of you and your 6-20 closest friends should assemble:
Flashlights
Batteries (AA and AAA)
First Aid kits - bandages, gauze, sutcher stitches, dis-infectant, neosporin, Surgical gloves
Sowing Kit
Compass
Bottled Water (as much as possible
Water purification pills
Non-perishable foods, high calorie (as much as possible)
Matches
Other fire making supplies
Knife
Letherman pocket tool
Maps (preferable waterproof)
GPS
Small sledge hammer (like with a 1 1/2 handle)
Large sledge
Axe
Really big bolt cutter for locks and chains.
Prybar
Mylar Emergency Blanket
Mil-Spec 550 Cord
Cash (gold or silver preferred)
Rain gear
Wool socks (multiple pair)
Stocking cap
Polypropylene long underwear
Polyester fleece jacket
Gloves
2 small metal buckets
2 washcloths
Powdered/flake soap
Wool blankets
Shotgun (at the very least, prefer 1 gun per party member)
Sh*t-ton of ammo
Fishing gear (Including extra fishing line)
Somthing to boil water in
Sleeping bags
Assorted camp equipment
Toilet Paper
Medicine
Rocket stove
A Defender w/ snorkel
Maine Coon Cat (but only if it feeds itself)
Hyenas or Baboons (but only if it feeds itself)
Ferrets (but only if it feeds itself)[/quote]

I think your list has gone a bit beyond basic bug out bag :slight_smile:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I live in a house I finished and insulated (with llama wool from my ranch actually) and is heated by a wood stove. Losing power doesn’t frighten me as I’ve been through several blizzards in this house, or in a shittier hut. My dad and I ranch so food is not a problem, I worry about looters more than anything. Luckily we live in bumfuck and can see for a ways. Lots of natural resources as well.

Ruffian, thats badass your place backs up to Lincoln, I’ve got the Weminuche wildness on the southeast edge of the ranch. I am fairly certain no one will be coming from that way, haha.[/quote]

No doubt about it - those who live in and are comfortable living day to day in a very rural environment will have a significant edge over anyone living in the city or burbs if things really fall apart.

[quote]theBeth wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Haha nice! So you probably won’t have to bring food along for her - because she provides that on her own.

Must be a rather big cat to take down rabbits. Main Coone?[/quote]

Maine Coons are actually not that big, they just have alot of fur. And the wild bunnies we have around here are about the size of a cat, maybe a little smaller but they are vicious creatures. I can’t imagine a cat taking one down.[/quote]

She’s a mix of a couple of things and pretty small. I think it’s the approach- She hits them fast and right at the spine.

My dog does pretty well with raccoon and other small vermin, and after a few years of training has a good nose for some prime edible shrooms.

Subsistence level stuff, but in a pinch can be of good value.

These threads always get me all worked up trying to plan shit.

I was cleaning out my house trying to sell some things on CL. Luckily no one wanted my camping ruck bag so maybe I will turn that it into a bug out bag for me, my woman, and my little dude. I’m going to start piecing it together with some basics of which I have almost none. I do have a 12 gauge shotgun that the 2 of us have gotten some experience on as well as a machete. It’s a pretty shitty machete so it’s more of a thin club. We’ve been looking into a handgun or 2 and I’ve been eyeballing some knives lately. I’ll use the list above to help add more.

We’ve also got a decent safe house planned out with a buddy of mine and his family. They’ve got enough food for a couple months there and a shit ton of ammo. We do have to supply our own food so I’ll have to work on that. Moderately secure building although there are neighbors within a few acres of each other in the small ass town. I’ve already confirmed it’s cool if I crash it. And with the medical knowledge I attain being an EMT I’m sure I will add value…

EDIT- having said that, we do need to get more outdoor exposure for survival. the road to the safe house is a 2 way road for about 15 miles so it will probably be over-run and/or barricaded so we may need to hike our way there. My “roughing” it is limited to a couple camping trips and scout stuff. It’s hard to do with a 1.5 year old but once he gets a little older I do want to take him on overnighters with minimal gear. The woman and I went before she was preggers but somehow I got talked into blow up mattresses and the like.

Ha you Americans and your guns. We dont have shit over here in England unless you’re lucky and come across a dead gangster, soldier or armed police officer. For that to happen you need to be in dodge and I aint going near those places at rush hour let alone when something bad happens.

The best I can do is a large rambo-esque knife. A crowbar, sharpened timber spears and metal bars and my own grey cells. But we’re an island and not some supersized continent like the EU or Americas.

Children of Men movie is my inspiration.