^^^
Good call. Fishing line is also great for setting simple snares.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Nards wrote:
Also many of them seem to have lost friends with their ranting about whatever they think will end the world. They all have the same stupid circular answer: “Well, when they world collapses and I’m safe in my retreat I’ll be laughing and you’ll all be dead.”
I’d like to say to them that I’ll be cosy 6 feet under and you’ll be eating your own filth as you fight off other fucking nutbars with no teeth.[/quote]
Agreed. What good is “prepping to survive” if the life you have now is shit? And these people are never like well-off, or very educated. They’re always broke ass rednecks blowing all the money they don’t have on planning a “survival retreat.”
Which in reality isn’t going to mean much, because if something serious went down, bad people like me WILL take what we need. These guys are easy pickins.[/quote]
Yeah, I thought of that too…I should take notes on where these people live and hide their stuff because they went and told everyone on a TV show.
Furo, you are right that humanity did climb from the muck, but your reasoning also requires that you have faith in humanity, I unfortunately do not.
The difference between rising from fire in a cave to today, is that every person that had survived to that point was hard working, and let’s face it, the better of the species (Darwin took care of the rest).
In an apocalyptic setting you now have millions of people who free-loaded without hand-outs. They will go to places they know there are rich, steady, normal people. And they won’t come in one’s or two’s it will be gangs. It’s one thing to think you can survive as a single male and be like, “I accept the challenge and can prove my manhood.” It’s another when you have women and children to protect and the realization that you against 8-10 raiders won’t be resulting in you winning out unless they are horribly weak or stupid. I know what will happen in a lawless world, men are not at all chivalrous and without repercussion those who already acted poorly will continue to do so.
Would humanity ultimately survive and get back on its feet? Sure, once communities form up against the chaos and defend against people that are scavenging forcefully. But that will take time. The first few months will be nothing but chaos, or worse. And I highly doubt anyone’s block of neighbors are all survivalists/preppers who understand the situation. More than likely your neighbors will be caught with pants down and will be just as desperate to feed their kids as you yours… except they don’t have food and you do. What won’t a mother do for her cub?
To me, that is not a world I want to see or live in. Would I try to survive, yes, but its not something that I pine for - like many “hardcore” preppers seem to. For many of you keep in mind that if you intend to “dig in” you also need a water source, because in a crappy scenario, running water may not exist.
It is one thing to prep for a disaster having ways to feed yourself etc. its another completely to have to defend against attackers, knowing full well that there won’t be a 911 to call, no ambulance if you get injured, and no cops to arrest the attacker(ers).
Since we’re in get-a-life I’ll say what I’m hinting at. You are one man, maybe if you’re lucky you get your brothers/close friends/family to join. So say there are 20 of you, 6 or 7 men, and lets hope you have a stockpile of hundreds of rounds. You dig in at your homes, or better at one home because homes means separation and you don’t have guard lights and turrets.
People will come for your things, and they will try everything to get them. Even burning you out of your house this is desperation. If people have no problem burning their own streets in the city during a riot, they’ll do the same to you and scavenge what is left. They will rape your wife, possibly your children. And it won’t be one time, they’ll do it over and over again to satisfy their animalistic urges, and then when/if they’re done, she’ll die. You will not defend forever against attackers. A dug in non-mobile group is dependent on their sole resources, and if you want food you either have to leave the nest or grow it. Both require being outside and open to attack.
You can be as hardcore/commando as you want, and talk about rolling over and dying, but you’re being unrealistic if you think you’re going to pull an Arnie and fend of dozens or hundreds of people over time. You will have to reload, you will have to sleep, and you will have to eat. I don’t want to see that ever happen or come, but survivalists and preppers are expecting it. Currency collapse is a high likelihood.
[quote]harrypotter wrote:
Hate to break it to you guys who are “prepared” by some means but…
City folk: They outnumber you and will come looking for your stuff once they have gotten out of the cities. Nothing stokes murder in a family mans mind than knowing you have food, water and shelter but wont let him barter for your limited supplies to feed his two kids and wife, if they’re not dead yet.
Rednecks: Well-armed, potential militia issues and will kill on sight. Eventually if the government doesn’t get ahold of itself or instil control over the country you will find bands of well armed and hostile rednecks roaming the country for supplies and women.
Survivalists/Mountain men: Just as dangerous as rednecks but they operate on their own or in twos. They will hunt people for their stuff and you probably wont see them coming.
How many of you guys are in need of prescription medicine? Can you jump to a life of hardship, no grid electric, no AC, no readily available water except for what you can find? Baring in mind water aquifers may be poisoned.
Hunting food now is different to when you have to watch your back. You may be able to hunt and kill animals 300lbs now but would you risk hunting an elk or deer and hoping some guy doesn’t see you doing all the work and waiting?
Majority of people would perish, you either get nasty real quick, have luck on your side that amassing stuff in a certain area was a good idea or you never really needed humanity at all and it wont make a blind bit of difference.
[/quote]
Exactly why I have about 15-20 guys of like mindedness that have all agreed on a few meetup spots to gather. Every single one is armed to the teeth and knows the outdoors well. Half being ex military with a handful of ex special forces. Those unorganized roaming bands of miscreants wouldn’t stand a chance out in the woods. Woods we all know well.
Agreed you would have to get nasty and be ruthless to survive. And avoid large cities or dense population areas at all costs.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
It is one thing to prep for a disaster having ways to feed yourself etc. its another completely to have to defend against attackers, knowing full well that there won’t be a 911 to call, no ambulance if you get injured, and no cops to arrest the attacker(ers).
Since we’re in get-a-life I’ll say what I’m hinting at. You are one man, maybe if you’re lucky you get your brothers/close friends/family to join. So say there are 20 of you, 6 or 7 men, and lets hope you have a stockpile of hundreds of rounds. You dig in at your homes, or better at one home because homes means separation and you don’t have guard lights and turrets.
People will come for your things, and they will try everything to get them. Even burning you out of your house this is desperation. If people have no problem burning their own streets in the city during a riot, they’ll do the same to you and scavenge what is left. They will rape your wife, possibly your children. And it won’t be one time, they’ll do it over and over again to satisfy their animalistic urges, and then when/if they’re done, she’ll die. You will not defend forever against attackers. A dug in non-mobile group is dependent on their sole resources, and if you want food you either have to leave the nest or grow it. Both require being outside and open to attack.
You can be as hardcore/commando as you want, and talk about rolling over and dying, but you’re being unrealistic if you think you’re going to pull an Arnie and fend of dozens or hundreds of people over time. You will have to reload, you will have to sleep, and you will have to eat. I don’t want to see that ever happen or come, but survivalists and preppers are expecting it. Currency collapse is a high likelihood.[/quote]
I think it depends on where you set up shop and what weapons you have at your disposal. Also how many are in your group. 10-15 well trained men with semi automatic weapons in an area well positioned and far out of normal reach from high populations areas would be the safest imo. Good luck roaming through the woods on foot without any training in basic scouting or survival. City folk who know nothing but pavement and cars won’t fair to well in the wild. Especially not when on foot.
I agree though a dug in position in the middle of the chaos is not such a good idea. You would probably eventually get burned out of swarmed. Unless you just mowed them down wholesale. I think eventually they would know not to fuck with you. Maybe.
And hundreds of rounds bro???!!! I think you left out the words thousands, hundreds of thousands!
Haha, not everyone has been able to stockpile, many didn’t try to start until the firearm / Constitutional Rights scare.
On the survivalist forum I visit - they mentioned the name in this thread, they bring up a good point about the woods. People will go there and kill any living thing that can be food. Scarcity will be rampant, and not sustainable. I suppose if you go out in the middle of nowhere, where you might have 1 person per square mile, sure, but now you’ve just created a “bug out location” which most folks consider insane.
Any wooded area within miles of cities will be drained of its natural resources, fish (dont need a pole, use dynamite/explosives), small and large game. No seasons, no limits, and we saw what early settlers did with Buffalo - take what you can when you can get it - no one will be stewards.
The other thing to consider, is unless those 10-15 guys are close in proximity now, the odds of getting to each other will be slim. Public transportation will be chaos, roads covered in traffic jams. Which families will need to move to others, and how will you get there amongst the masses. I’m reminded of War of the Worlds, with the vast Exodus of people - though there was a common goal of fleeing, not a selfish goal of survival for me and my own (until the car scene).
What about first aid? If you flee to the wilderness you’re now miles and miles from civilization (or what once was). Fall and break your foot, you’re hosed, get a cut, better clean it so it isn’t infected - do you have sterile water? Sure roughing it seems fun, I’ve got like 3 books on surviving old school - cabin, hunting, fishing, making clothes from hides, etc. I love to read it - but there’s a whole bunch of reality and what-ifs that stick their face in the door when you get down to the nitty gritty. I’m not even considering the millions of people on pills, aids, etc. just to make it day to day now (how will depressed people cope with no more drugs to cheer them up and the world trying to swallow them alive?), tis an interesting social experiment.
Its a scary thought indeed, and I’ll admit its disturbed me a few times, almost to keeping me up at night. But then I realize a great deal has to occur for us to get to that point. The government can go bankrupt, but if the US does, so will the other nations. If everyone has massive debt, who is actually the collector? Just wipe the slate and start over, I would not be surprised to see it happen.
Thankfully I know people
I’d be fucked over here in Asia anyway. Good thing I have seven dogs. That’s one meal per day…for a week. Then I’m a goner.
That being said, I think we can make great value out of this thread. Here are some ideas just off the top of my head for “survival kits” or “bug out items” for more common shit hit the fan (shtf) scenarios.
Batteries, AA, and AAA specifically
Flashlight
First Aid kits - bandages, gauze, sutcher stitches (sp? but these things are life savers for hunters and in tough spots), dis-infectant, neosporin, Surgical gloves
Sowing Kit
Bottled Water (2 cases)
Non-perishable foods (enough to last 2 weeks to a month depending on perceived threat - this includes for pets - they are family too)
Water purification pills
Matches - the good ones
Knife - not Rambo, I’m talking practical types
Toilet Paper - you’ll miss it if you don’t have it - I carry a role on my backpack in Japan - too many public restrooms have been “out” and that’s not a fun experience.
The above are all things that will help you in a quick “oh shit” moment, be it imminent flood, tornado warning, power outage, snow storm, etc. Again, plan for the realistic things for your area, well before you plan for the end of the world. I carry some of these items in my hunting pack, because many I have a chance to need - knife, first aid kit, water, toilet paper (important!!).
Rotate through your items to keep your stock fresh and not waste - that includes band-aids etc. If you want a bug-out-bag for quick situations, guys in the military can offer some great input, but to the above list I’d add
Change of clothes
Map
Cash
GPS (if you’ve got it)
Feel free to add. There’s always value in being prepared, its up to you to decide how prepared you want to be in anything you do.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Haha, not everyone has been able to stockpile, many didn’t try to start until the firearm / Constitutional Rights scare.
On the survivalist forum I visit - they mentioned the name in this thread, they bring up a good point about the woods. People will go there and kill any living thing that can be food. Scarcity will be rampant, and not sustainable. I suppose if you go out in the middle of nowhere, where you might have 1 person per square mile, sure, but now you’ve just created a “bug out location” which most folks consider insane.
Any wooded area within miles of cities will be drained of its natural resources, fish (dont need a pole, use dynamite/explosives), small and large game. No seasons, no limits, and we saw what early settlers did with Buffalo - take what you can when you can get it - no one will be stewards.
The other thing to consider, is unless those 10-15 guys are close in proximity now, the odds of getting to each other will be slim. Public transportation will be chaos, roads covered in traffic jams. Which families will need to move to others, and how will you get there amongst the masses. I’m reminded of War of the Worlds, with the vast Exodus of people - though there was a common goal of fleeing, not a selfish goal of survival for me and my own (until the car scene).
What about first aid? If you flee to the wilderness you’re now miles and miles from civilization (or what once was). Fall and break your foot, you’re hosed, get a cut, better clean it so it isn’t infected - do you have sterile water? Sure roughing it seems fun, I’ve got like 3 books on surviving old school - cabin, hunting, fishing, making clothes from hides, etc. I love to read it - but there’s a whole bunch of reality and what-ifs that stick their face in the door when you get down to the nitty gritty. I’m not even considering the millions of people on pills, aids, etc. just to make it day to day now (how will depressed people cope with no more drugs to cheer them up and the world trying to swallow them alive?), tis an interesting social experiment.
Its a scary thought indeed, and I’ll admit its disturbed me a few times, almost to keeping me up at night. But then I realize a great deal has to occur for us to get to that point. The government can go bankrupt, but if the US does, so will the other nations. If everyone has massive debt, who is actually the collector? Just wipe the slate and start over, I would not be surprised to see it happen. [/quote]
I own 700 acres in the middle of nowhere MS. My dad’s mom’s side had been farmers there since the middle 1800’s. The road to the old farmhouse there is still just dirt. Hell the town “near” by only got a walmart like 3 years ago. That, freds, and Mcdonalds are the only things in town. It is surrounded by enormous farms/ woods. Population under 400. Closest large city is Jackson, which is 100 miles away. Also have 8 large ponds on the property all stocked with bass, brim, and catfish.
I don’t think there are enough proficient hunters in the area to clear the woods completely. And I guess it is a bug out location, but more of my hunting grounds really. I have added some things to it, but it has been a sustainable farm for generations. So the groundwork is there.
And I don’t think the decline will be all of a sudden you wake up and everyone is running around burning and shooting people. I think it could get to that point, but it would be more gradual. Any rational person with a brain would be able to read he writing on the wall by that point I think.
Luckily the group I talk of contains 2 physicians. And as a social experiment most would perish honestly. Hell even some of the strong would even perish through attrition, infection, sickness, etc. It would be a rude awakening, but those that survived sure as hell would know hard work and be some tough mother fuckers.
That is what I have always wondered. Everyone owes so much money, but in reality why does it even matter? It has gotten so stupid and out of control…
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
That being said, I think we can make great value out of this thread. Here are some ideas just off the top of my head for “survival kits” or “bug out items” for more common shit hit the fan (shtf) scenarios.
Batteries, AA, and AAA specifically
Flashlight
First Aid kits - bandages, gauze, sutcher stitches (sp? but these things are life savers for hunters and in tough spots), dis-infectant, neosporin, Surgical gloves
Sowing Kit
Bottled Water (2 cases)
Non-perishable foods (enough to last 2 weeks to a month depending on perceived threat - this includes for pets - they are family too)
Water purification pills
Matches - the good ones
Knife - not Rambo, I’m talking practical types
Toilet Paper - you’ll miss it if you don’t have it - I carry a role on my backpack in Japan - too many public restrooms have been “out” and that’s not a fun experience.
The above are all things that will help you in a quick “oh shit” moment, be it imminent flood, tornado warning, power outage, snow storm, etc. Again, plan for the realistic things for your area, well before you plan for the end of the world. I carry some of these items in my hunting pack, because many I have a chance to need - knife, first aid kit, water, toilet paper (important!!).
Rotate through your items to keep your stock fresh and not waste - that includes band-aids etc. If you want a bug-out-bag for quick situations, guys in the military can offer some great input, but to the above list I’d add
Change of clothes
Map
Cash
GPS (if you’ve got it)
Feel free to add. There’s always value in being prepared, its up to you to decide how prepared you want to be in anything you do.[/quote]
A book on herbs, plants, and natural remedies. You would be surprised what you can find/ make out in the woods with a little knowledge and practice.
Also a few good flint strikers. You can get some that are like 10,000-20,000 strikes before going bad. These can come in very handy.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Haha, not everyone has been able to stockpile, many didn’t try to start until the firearm / Constitutional Rights scare.
On the survivalist forum I visit - they mentioned the name in this thread, they bring up a good point about the woods. People will go there and kill any living thing that can be food. Scarcity will be rampant, and not sustainable. I suppose if you go out in the middle of nowhere, where you might have 1 person per square mile, sure, but now you’ve just created a “bug out location” which most folks consider insane.
Any wooded area within miles of cities will be drained of its natural resources, fish (dont need a pole, use dynamite/explosives), small and large game. No seasons, no limits, and we saw what early settlers did with Buffalo - take what you can when you can get it - no one will be stewards.
The other thing to consider, is unless those 10-15 guys are close in proximity now, the odds of getting to each other will be slim. Public transportation will be chaos, roads covered in traffic jams. Which families will need to move to others, and how will you get there amongst the masses. I’m reminded of War of the Worlds, with the vast Exodus of people - though there was a common goal of fleeing, not a selfish goal of survival for me and my own (until the car scene).
What about first aid? If you flee to the wilderness you’re now miles and miles from civilization (or what once was). Fall and break your foot, you’re hosed, get a cut, better clean it so it isn’t infected - do you have sterile water? Sure roughing it seems fun, I’ve got like 3 books on surviving old school - cabin, hunting, fishing, making clothes from hides, etc. I love to read it - but there’s a whole bunch of reality and what-ifs that stick their face in the door when you get down to the nitty gritty. I’m not even considering the millions of people on pills, aids, etc. just to make it day to day now (how will depressed people cope with no more drugs to cheer them up and the world trying to swallow them alive?), tis an interesting social experiment.
Its a scary thought indeed, and I’ll admit its disturbed me a few times, almost to keeping me up at night. But then I realize a great deal has to occur for us to get to that point. The government can go bankrupt, but if the US does, so will the other nations. If everyone has massive debt, who is actually the collector? Just wipe the slate and start over, I would not be surprised to see it happen. [/quote]
I own 700 acres in the middle of nowhere MS. My dad’s mom’s side had been farmers there since the middle 1800’s. The road to the old farmhouse there is still just dirt. Hell the town “near” by only got a walmart like 3 years ago. That, freds, and Mcdonalds are the only things in town. It is surrounded by enormous farms/ woods. Population under 400. Closest large city is Jackson, which is 100 miles away. Also have 8 large ponds on the property all stocked with bass, brim, and catfish.
I don’t think there are enough proficient hunters in the area to clear the woods completely. And I guess it is a bug out location, but more of my hunting grounds really. I have added some things to it, but it has been a sustainable farm for generations. So the groundwork is there.
And I don’t think the decline will be all of a sudden you wake up and everyone is running around burning and shooting people. I think it could get to that point, but it would be more gradual. Any rational person with a brain would be able to read he writing on the wall by that point I think.
Luckily the group I talk of contains 2 physicians. And as a social experiment most would perish honestly. Hell even some of the strong would even perish through attrition, infection, sickness, etc. It would be a rude awakening, but those that survived sure as hell would know hard work and be some tough mother fuckers.
That is what I have always wondered. Everyone owes so much money, but in reality why does it even matter? It has gotten so stupid and out of control… [/quote]
badass
Can I come hunting there, serious question?
And, yes, yours is a special case. Most folks don’t inherit that kind of blessing. The bulk of the populous is in cities and the surrounding suburbs. The safest places in the country during a bad scenario are in the Mid-West where there is space for miles and miles. Many preppers/survivalists are buying homes in Idaho, Wyomming, etc. because of this very fact.
My great uncle owns some 350 acres I hunt on, unfortunately I will not be inheriting it as he has a daughter with two kids. My concern is being able to hunt on it at all, when he passes. Also unfortunate is this land is only half an hour from Pittsburgh, so quite a different in situation.
Key point is the word “logical.” Of the number of people in this country, what percentage would you claim as logical, 2-5% maybe? Ehh, I agree in most cases on it taking time, but only the really financially savvy knew about the impending bubble of real estate in 2008 and that happened pretty drastically. Then Greece and others. The government, like any “good” leader, will hide the crumbling of the infrastructure as long as humanly possible, then pull the shoot to their private island before the world goes to hell. I can assure you, if the time ever comes for meltdown, those in power will be no where to be found.
Also, two small metal buckets, two washcloths and powdered/flake soap for cleaning yourself. Heat some water over a fire, add soap and use that for cleaning feet, crotch and armpits; use the other for rinsing. That will go a long ways toward preventing disease. The rest of your body is nowhere near as important to keep clean. Plus, you need very little water.
At least one good wool blanket. I really like the West German Military Surplus ones I got that are treated to be mothproof. In the rain, wool repels water pretty well (due to the lanolin in it), it’s breathable, and it’s warm.
Some basic layered cold weather gear. Polypropylene long underwear, a polyester fleece jacket, and a waterproof outer layer is a pretty good start. Add wool socks, good gloves, and some headgear and you’re pretty well set.
Something to boil water in. While it’s nowhere near perfect, boiling pretty much completely kills all biological contaminants and parasites, etc.
Plus… those other lists.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Feel free to add. [/quote]
I’d include my cat. She is an excellent hunter and always brings back rabbits, squirrels, and what ever else happens to move that day. You take one off of her, she just turns around and gets another within 10 minutes.
Haha nice! So you probably won’t have to bring food along for her - because she provides that on her own.
Must be a rather big cat to take down rabbits. Main Coone?
Another thing I forgot to add.
Weight issues. Many folks on here weight train and have added weight to themselves that would not be sustainable in these conditions. You need to be able to move and move quickly over all sorts of terrain.
Your food and water intake would need to take a drastic cut so basically you have to regulate down. In the mean time your stomach is going to be in pain and whatever fat reserves you have are taken away, then there is the muscle.
So you’re looking at losing your own bodyweight just to survive on rations.
But there is always the humans as food option. 
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Haha nice! So you probably won’t have to bring food along for her - because she provides that on her own.
Must be a rather big cat to take down rabbits. Main Coone?[/quote]
Maine Coons are actually not that big, they just have alot of fur. And the wild bunnies we have around here are about the size of a cat, maybe a little smaller but they are vicious creatures. I can’t imagine a cat taking one down.
hahaha see, Quasi is bordering on the slightly insane here… a currency collapse is far from “likely” to happen, but even if it did, that’s not a situation where you’re “bugging out to the wilderness” to avoid roving bands of rapists.
Kinda rolling my eyes here.