Preformance Enhancers and Cheating

Off Topic
21

[quote]mclemorejohn wrote:
swivel wrote:
mclemorejohn wrote:
I usually don’t weigh in on these subjects but I will this one time.
I have no problem with people using steroids one bit. I have even contemplated using, but never got around to it. For all I care the American public can take steroids until they are blue in the face.

Here is my point. In most sports there are rules. Some of those rules prohibit the use of alot of performance enhancing drugs. Athletes are full aware of these. Ben Johnson knew it, and the Landis guy knew it, and Bonds knew it. if these guys knew this and still did it would this not be considered cheating.
I think it would be great if all athletes were allowed steroids. Flashback to Phil Hartman and the All Steriod Olympics

if you think it “would be great” then you should support it. you should be bitching about government and their smug purist minions who are putting sports down, not bitching about athletes who should know better. those athletes you mentioned are simply doing what athletes do, what they’ve always : trying to gain advantage. that is their nature.

all these rules and drug testing and appeals to “fairness” are just boil down to typical gov’t bullshit. eminent domain. ironic how in america, where freedom is supposedly our thing, people are swallowing this crap hook line and sinker.

Bottom line is steroids are illegal to use or distribute. I’m on board if all you guys wanna go to congress and picket. We can even hold up signs that say “ROIDS OR REVOLUTION.”
I do think they should be legal and I do support the right to use steroids, but I think I would rather my government focus on more important things that they have been neglecting. Oh yea and freedom is “our thing” but I thing that if everything was allowed we would have problems.

[/quote]

i agree with you. and i but i think that the “problems” being created by government and this public “do as i say not as i do” hypocrisy are far worse that the potential problems that come from athletes abusing performance enhancing drugs.

yes athletes can screw themselves up if they overreach, or don’t do their homework. but really, who gives a shit ? that’s as bogus as the guys who use safety and injury as an excuse to hate on diesel weasel. nobody cares if dw hurts his back except dw and dw’s mom. in fact it’s just opposite.

they prolly want dw to get hurt so they can say “i told you so” and make deadlifting illegal unless you’ve taken a certification course and have been issued a ‘license to dl’ in your state. (btw the the license fee is NOT included w/the course fee).

what i’m saying is the “problems” caused by drugs, or shall we say “medicine”, fall largely under the realm of personal reponsibility. the problems caused by public agencies wanting a piece of the sports pie, however, are in direct opposition to living a free life in a free society -which i’d say participation in sport is one of the highest expressions of.

the more the government steps in to regulate sport the more we’re simply killing one of the greatest freedoms we have. it’s happening already. the fact is that athletes do not share the same freedoms as the rest of society. there’s something wrong with a supposedly “free” society when we’re requiring athletes to submit “whereabouts forms” detailing their physical location to facilitate surprise testing.

and there’s something downright evil about a public agency than can accuse and convict athletes of drug use without allowing an athlete to answer the accusation.

in the end i agree with you that rules should be followed in sports. there should not be an anything goes chaos. but gov’t/public agencies/outside entities should not be involved in making or enforcing those rules. nor should fans, sports writers, wannabes, or even ustabe’s. rules should be made by the leaders. those who are practicing it at the highest level.

22

[quote]swivel wrote:
mclemorejohn wrote:
swivel wrote:
mclemorejohn wrote:
I usually don’t weigh in on these subjects but I will this one time.
I have no problem with people using steroids one bit. I have even contemplated using, but never got around to it. For all I care the American public can take steroids until they are blue in the face.

Here is my point. In most sports there are rules. Some of those rules prohibit the use of alot of performance enhancing drugs. Athletes are full aware of these. Ben Johnson knew it, and the Landis guy knew it, and Bonds knew it. if these guys knew this and still did it would this not be considered cheating.
I think it would be great if all athletes were allowed steroids. Flashback to Phil Hartman and the All Steriod Olympics

if you think it “would be great” then you should support it. you should be bitching about government and their smug purist minions who are putting sports down, not bitching about athletes who should know better. those athletes you mentioned are simply doing what athletes do, what they’ve always : trying to gain advantage. that is their nature.

all these rules and drug testing and appeals to “fairness” are just boil down to typical gov’t bullshit. eminent domain. ironic how in america, where freedom is supposedly our thing, people are swallowing this crap hook line and sinker.

Bottom line is steroids are illegal to use or distribute. I’m on board if all you guys wanna go to congress and picket. We can even hold up signs that say “ROIDS OR REVOLUTION.”
I do think they should be legal and I do support the right to use steroids, but I think I would rather my government focus on more important things that they have been neglecting. Oh yea and freedom is “our thing” but I thing that if everything was allowed we would have problems.

i agree with you. and i but i think that the “problems” being created by government and this public “do as i say not as i do” hypocrisy are far worse that the potential problems that come from athletes abusing performance enhancing drugs.

yes athletes can screw themselves up if they overreach, or don’t do their homework. but really, who gives a shit ? that’s as bogus as the guys who use safety and injury as an excuse to hate on diesel weasel. nobody cares if dw hurts his back except dw and dw’s mom. in fact it’s just opposite.

they prolly want dw to get hurt so they can say “i told you so” and make deadlifting illegal unless you’ve taken a certification course and have been issued a ‘license to dl’ in your state. (btw the the license fee is NOT included w/the course fee).

what i’m saying is the “problems” caused by drugs, or shall we say “medicine”, fall largely under the realm of personal reponsibility. the problems caused by public agencies wanting a piece of the sports pie, however, are in direct opposition to living a free life in a free society -which i’d say participation in sport is one of the highest expressions of.

the more the government steps in to regulate sport the more we’re simply killing one of the greatest freedoms we have. it’s happening already. the fact is that athletes do not share the same freedoms as the rest of society. there’s something wrong with a supposedly “free” society when we’re requiring athletes to submit “whereabouts forms” detailing their physical location to facilitate surprise testing.

and there’s something downright evil about a public agency than can accuse and convict athletes of drug use without allowing an athlete to answer the accusation.

in the end i agree with you that rules should be followed in sports. there should not be an anything goes chaos. but gov’t/public agencies/outside entities should not be involved in making or enforcing those rules. nor should fans, sports writers, wannabes, or even ustabe’s. rules should be made by the leaders. those who are practicing it at the highest level.
[/quote]

Follow the money.
Athletes are used up,but compensated for their “ability” and thrown away.

23

[quote]swivel wrote:
rules should be made by the leaders. those who are practicing it at the highest level.
[/quote]

Whole heartedly agree with this statement.

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:
gojira wrote:
Never, ever try to make sense of, or apply logic to, the selective drugs laws in this country. It’s not about science or ethics, it’s about money and politics.

Period.

Very true. Tv shows glamorize stomach stapling and cosmetic surgery, however, turn right around and frown on someone doing the exact same type of body change using hormones.

How many people would claim a professional athlete was “cheating” if they had liposuction to lose 20lbs which made them a little faster on the court or on the field? Shouldn’t they be suspended and kicked off the team as well?

Star Jones dropped the equivalent weight of an NFL linebacker faster than it takes most people to diet the weight off. Shouldn’t the public be calling her a “cheater”? Why can’t we have her (and the rest of The View) arrested?[/quote]

Wow, Star Jones is all kinds of things. I remember she would constantly get angry aout anyone who mentioned diets and would say big is beautiful and diets don’t work, and how girls should love rheir bodies no matter what.

But instead of having an ounce of fucking will power and trying to cause a life change she opts for gastric bypass surgery and was losing pounds and pounds and still denied it on the show for months and months…gezz.

How can you not control what you eat to a certain extent, sure some metabolisms go slow but it takes real fat-fuck dedication to get to 300 pounds at 5’6" or whatever.

I think by us allowing certain activities such as alcohol which proves to be the most dangerous drug due to the fact that human beings are stupid animals, we have to demonize the activities that will net less profit or affect less people.

You can say it all you want but Marijuana is much less harmful than alcohol, but that doesn’t matter. Steroids are saffer than gastric bypass surgery or starving yourself, but that doesn’t matter.

25

Damn Ronald Reagan!!!

All of this drug testing crap was fine when it was the Soviet Bloc being tested. The East German womens swimming team looked more muscular than any man here. All we did was bitch about how the Soviets were drugged up and we could kick their asses if only…

As soon as the Iron Curtain came down, we had all of this drug testing equipment and no one to test, and since we started winning all of the world championchips, our athletes were tested.

Suprise! We did it, too. Just not as well as the Ruskies.

If we are going to allow increased athletic achievement by any means other than a list of selected drugs then that is BS. BALCO proved that. It is only the athletes unable to evade the latest in testing that will get caught. The producers of the designer drugs get three months easy time, the user a 2-4 year ban in track and field, half a season in baseball, etc.

If you want to juice, and you know the perils of getting caught, you’re still gonna juice. The government needs to keep it’s nose out of this and let the players play. It will sort itself out.

Pro bodybuilding is going down the tubes because the drugs are out of control. Former fans and participants are disgusted with the bloated bellies and gargantuan size and yearn for a return to the simpler days of symmetry and Grecian lines. Rumor has it that M&F and FLEX are up for sale. Good riddance to the rags.

Bring back Rollerball, the only manly sport on the planet.

26

[quote]Stinker wrote:
Damn Ronald Reagan!!!

All of this drug testing crap was fine when it was the Soviet Bloc being tested. The East German womens swimming team looked more muscular than any man here. All we did was bitch about how the Soviets were drugged up and we could kick their asses if only…

As soon as the Iron Curtain came down, we had all of this drug testing equipment and no one to test, and since we started winning all of the world championchips, our athletes were tested.

Suprise! We did it, too. Just not as well as the Ruskies.

If we are going to allow increased athletic achievement by any means other than a list of selected drugs then that is BS. BALCO proved that. It is only the athletes unable to evade the latest in testing that will get caught. The producers of the designer drugs get three months easy time, the user a 2-4 year ban in track and field, half a season in baseball, etc.

If you want to juice, and you know the perils of getting caught, you’re still gonna juice. The government needs to keep it’s nose out of this and let the players play. It will sort itself out.

Pro bodybuilding is going down the tubes because the drugs are out of control. Former fans and participants are disgusted with the bloated bellies and gargantuan size and yearn for a return to the simpler days of symmetry and Grecian lines. Rumor has it that M&F and FLEX are up for sale. Good riddance to the rags.

Bring back Rollerball, the only manly sport on the planet.[/quote]

what about hide the salami ?

27

[quote]Kagemusha wrote:

Now I am sick and tired of people the media especaily calling people who use preformance enhancing substances cheaters. This is the worst kind of hippocracy. They will publicly embarass ben johnson for training his ass off and then running faster than anyone ever has, then run out and buy their ginko biloba and ginsing and anyother fucking pill that is supposed to make them smarter.

In a episode of the TV show Regenisis they had part of an episode that delt with a friend of one of the main charters taking an experimental new drug so he could take his last stab at the NHL, while all ther other doctors on the show were ragging on him saying how could he do this to his body and take such a risk, one of the guys said " If there was a pill that could make you smarter and a better doctor wouldn’t you take it"

And this is the double standard I hate.
They will kick a college football player off a team if he is caught using steriods so he can train harder, but they won’t fail a kid out of a class if he is caught using rittilen
so he can study harder.
[/quote]

I’m going to have to disagree with the majority of the people here. Using steroids for an advantage in sports is cheating. Some really good points have been made about other questionable acts in sport that could be considered cheating. And yes, often the media will not criticize other measures taking by athletes as intensely as they do steroids use. Still this doesn’t mean that steroids use in sports shouldn’t be considered cheating.

I understand that steroids are usually safe if used responsibly, but there is still a chance of harmful side effects. Furthermore, if they are legalized in sports, some athletes will push the envelope and take stronger/higher doses of steroids and/or more dangerous pharmaceuticals to gain an advantage over the other users. This will significantly increase the health risks…where would it stop? Legalizing steroids in sports is a slippery slope that would open up the door to more harmful performance enhancers and create more health problems in athletes.

Why should an athlete who is willing to gamble with his health or even reduce his lifespan be rewarded? Sports isn’t a be all end all for every athlete, especially college athletes. We shouldn’t celebrate or reward people who are willing to risk their lives for sports. Also, think about how many more teenagers would be using steroids if their role models were using. Most teens would be abusing the drugs and taking them waaaaayyyyy before they reached a fraction of their natural potential.

I understand that the initial purpose of this thread was to point out the hypocrisy of the media with regards to steroid use. And some great points were made about surgeries that can give athletes potential advantages. There are definitely some grey areas. But when people make statements like “they should just allow steroids in sports” I strongly disagree.

28

[quote]tpa wrote:
Kagemusha wrote:

Now I am sick and tired of people the media especaily calling people who use preformance enhancing substances cheaters. This is the worst kind of hippocracy. They will publicly embarass ben johnson for training his ass off and then running faster than anyone ever has, then run out and buy their ginko biloba and ginsing and anyother fucking pill that is supposed to make them smarter.

In a episode of the TV show Regenisis they had part of an episode that delt with a friend of one of the main charters taking an experimental new drug so he could take his last stab at the NHL, while all ther other doctors on the show were ragging on him saying how could he do this to his body and take such a risk, one of the guys said " If there was a pill that could make you smarter and a better doctor wouldn’t you take it"

And this is the double standard I hate.
They will kick a college football player off a team if he is caught using steriods so he can train harder, but they won’t fail a kid out of a class if he is caught using rittilen
so he can study harder.

I’m going to have to disagree with the majority of the people here. Using steroids for an advantage in sports is cheating. Some really good points have been made about other questionable acts in sport that could be considered cheating. And yes, often the media will not criticize other measures taking by athletes as intensely as they do steroids use. Still this doesn’t mean that steroids use in sports shouldn’t be considered cheating.

I understand that steroids are usually safe if used responsibly, but there is still a chance of harmful side effects. Furthermore, if they are legalized in sports, some athletes will push the envelope and take stronger/higher doses of steroids and/or more dangerous pharmaceuticals to gain an advantage over the other users. This will significantly increase the health risks…where would it stop? Legalizing steroids in sports is a slippery slope that would open up the door to more harmful performance enhancers and create more health problems in athletes.

Why should an athlete who is willing to gamble with his health or even reduce his lifespan be rewarded? Sports isn’t a be all end all for every athlete, especially college athletes. We shouldn’t celebrate or reward people who are willing to risk their lives for sports. Also, think about how many more teenagers would be using steroids if their role models were using. Most teens would be abusing the drugs and taking them waaaaayyyyy before they reached a fraction of their natural potential.

I understand that the initial purpose of this thread was to point out the hypocrisy of the media with regards to steroid use. And some great points were made about surgeries that can give athletes potential advantages. There are definitely some grey areas. But when people make statements like “they should just allow steroids in sports” I strongly disagree.
[/quote]

I understand your view but, if anyone out there hasn’t accepted the fact that a lot, and I mean a lot of pro athletes use and means necessary to get where they are. THAT INCLUDES THE USE OF ANABOLICS AND OTHER ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES. But, some get away with it and a few of the unlucky get caught. And your point about more teens using steroids, well don’t alot of teens use recreational or mood altering drugs becuse they either see someone on tv or the movies use them. Isn’t that why kids start drinking and smoking. It all comes down to the kids decision and the role of the teen’s parents. I used anabolics as a teen and my parents knew and tried to stop me. Most people on this site look up to Arnold, right. He juiced but no one’s bustin down the Govenator’s door to arrest him. My point is your comparing apples to oranges. And the fact is we lost the war on drugs in the 80’s. Bonds and the others are just examples being made by the gov’t to push their own agenda. Yes, anabolic steroids are illegal. But you know what so is pot, so is x, coke, and about a hundred other drugs. And people all over this country are still using them without regret. People are going to break the law and the majority won’t get caught. Also the gov’t should have better shit on it’s agenda than worrying if Barry Bonds did or didn’t use steroids. WHO GIVES A FUCK. Yeah maybe they made him stronger but it aint easy to hit a 100mph fast ball and he was damn good at it. How much did the roids help, I don’t know and probably never will. But you know what I’m over it. Bottom line is it’s each individual’s own personal decision whether to use steroids or not and thats based on their own morals and beliefs. And those two things no one can change.

29

I actually have nothing against the legalization of steroids, but I don’t think they should be allowed in college / professional sports. I would rather have the outcomes of sporting events determined on the field not in a science lab. If you allow AAS in sports they will become chemical warfare.

30

[quote]swivel wrote:

what about hide the salami ?[/quote]

No offense, but rollerball is manly because it’s men and machines, mano a mano, which makes it manly.

When I sheath my pork sword, it is with a woman. There is no sport in it, when I score I don’t spike my wife and do a dance, my gatorade sweat has no color, I don’t parade around in the locker room afterwards and talk to reporters about the game.

Where and how you hide your salami is your business, but it’s not a sport.

Stinker