Im hoping I can get some advice around my pre-cycle bloods and an appropriate course of action going forward.
My background and what led me to consider a test cycle
45yo Male
186cm
97kg
Train 3 – 5 times a week
Diet is good
I’ve always been a fit and healthy individual, I’ve trained and competed in boxing for the good part of 20 years, and consistently trained strength for the last 5 years. My son competes at national level in Olympic Lifting and I’ve done a fair bit of training with his coaches and club. We lift together at home when he’s not training at his club.
Last year I got sick with Chronic Sinusitis and it put me out of action for about 9 months and then recovery post-surgery was quite slow. I gained some weight and lost fitness and muscle tone. Ive been working my arse off over the last 5 months but struggling to make muscle and strength gains and the damn belly fat won’t budge. I’ve noticed the libido dropping a bit too and motivation is off.
This got me thinking about doing a cycle to try and get me back on top, help with the belly fat and regain some muscle and strength. I’ve spent the last few weeks lurking various sites and trying to learn as much as possible, time and again everyone said get bloods so that’s been my first course of action.
I got full bloods done at my docs and androgens and hormones done privately. The docs bloods came back all good apart from borderline low MCV (anaemia) which Im addressing with iron supplements. The androgen/hormone bloods came back today and look pretty shit to my untrained eye. Im hoping for some of the more knowedgable members to give me some guidance on interpreting these and a course of action to take.
ANDROGENS
Total Test - 14.4 nmol/L = 415 ng/dl
SHBG – 48 nmol/L
Free T – 228pmol/L = 66 pg/ml = 7 ng/dl
FAI - 30
HORMONES
FSH - 10u/L (this was flagged as abnormal on the results which had a limit of <9)
LH - 5u/L
E2 – 100pmol = 27.2pg/ml
TRT can be exceptionally hard to get here in Australia, and everything Ive looked at medically online would indicate Im borderline for qualifying. Well fuck borderline, I’ll do what needs to be done to get this sorted.
I honestly have a shit ton of questions that I’ll put up in following posts but I thought this would be a good start
Take this with a grain of salt, but from what I have learned so far I’m thinking that your levels actually look pretty decent considering your age and the medical issues.
Total T is middle of the road (usually 200-900 for most labs is considered normal)
E2 is also middle of the road for what I’m reading is normal ranges.
Not sure about Free Test…haven’t fully got a bead on that one yet lol.
You mentioned a 9 month off period following some medical issues and that it really packed on the belly fat. Again, I’m no dr but the medical issues alone, much less coupled with the fact that went from being in good shape to packing in the pounds, is enough to make you feel like shit. That can have a huge mental impact. (Experienced this myself). I don’t believe that you would qualify at all for TRT, and even if you did, most recommendations I’ve seen here so far are that you would want to get in much better shape before you started. Get your diet dialed in. You’re 45. As some have told me in here…welcome to getting older!! Lol
I would really stew on it hard before I decided to start injecting. Once you start, especially at yours and my age, it’s likely that there is no end to it. There’s a high chance that you natural production will never bounce back. That’s something very serious to consider when your over 400 total test naturally at 45 yrs old.
Again, I’m learning so I’m hoping someone with more knowledge can either confirm or refute what I’m saying here.
Yeah it’s the free test that threw me on the results plus the SHBG which from what I understand can inhibit free test. I was at the very bottom of the lab range for free test and the very top for SHBG. I may be wrong here but from my studying so far I believe even though total Test is in range its all being bound up by the high SHBG.
I understand what you’re saying about never recovering my normal levels if I go on, that’s certainly something that I’m thinking hard about. The flips side to that is am I just delaying the inevitable anyway?
Or am I having a mid-life crisis and crying for my lost youth! Haha
I’m 53 and have been on TRT for over 10 years. In my opinion, I would pursue the TRT route. Even consider self administered. You will feel a world of difference. In fact, you don’t know how bad you feel until you get back to normal.
You will get TONS of differing opinions and I’m not here to argue with anybody. Just telling you, getting on the correct dose of Test changed my life.
Edit: If you choose to self administer, there are some online pharmacies in Thailand that are pretty good and will ship in discrete packages. There are also some European based sites that have a ton of pharma grade drugs. Forum rules prevent me from providing any detail. Gotta do your own research.
Thanks for the reply, when I got sick last year I vowed I’d make sure my quality of life going forward was top notch, this has led me here.
I’m aware that trt is forever but really who cares about that if my forever ends up being way better. It’s a pin or two a week. Literally a couple of minutes of time.
The concern is the sides but honestly I dont plan on blasting 500mg a week. I just want something that will get me to the upper ranges of normal.
Well people make a big deal about the “sides” but for me they have been minimal. I self inject 125 mg twice a week. I take about 15 mg of Tamoxifen daily and I take cialis on pin days. That’s it. That gives me great libido (to the point that my wife has to limit me or else I end up hurting her), great erections, mental focus, more muscle, less fat, and generally feeling good.
If you are then you are definitely not alone my friend! Lol
Yeah I’m not quite there in my understanding of the SHBG and it affects. Trying hard though. I’m waiting on my bloods to come back now to see where I’m at. Looks like we’re in the same boat.
I’ve got a pretty good and understanding PCP, so I will go over options when my labs come back. If he is like most doctors though and is not willing to help out with TRT, I’ll at least have a baseline of where to start if I do it on my own. Sounds like you have the same mentality so I applaud you for that. Not because it’s a view that I share, which I do, but because I think it’s very smart!!
Do you need TRT? No, probably not. But will it likely create lasting positive benefits for your quality of life? Absolutely. We live in a time when we can improve ourselves through sound science and dedicated work. Why wouldn’t someone take advantage of that? It’s your life. Not an Australian doctor’s life, not some number on a paper’s life, it’s yours. You only get one, so make it count.
Man you are sport on. you could not have summed up my feelings any better. its almost as I was dictating to you exactly how I feel. I’m 43 TT =500 FT=15 e2=27. 6’ 230 ~18%BF. I went for TRT and got quite the script (enough Test cyp, HCG, and adex to run a med strength cycle). However I just cant bring myself to do it. I want to really bad but I am not sure I want to inject for the rest of my life. I struggle with it a lot. but my regular bloods are spot on I’m super healthy work out 5xs a week and my TRT #s seem ok too for my age. Ill probably never go thru with it. but hey who knows you can be 100% fine one day and get hit by a truck the next or be diagnosed w some disease. oh well your post just moved me so much I had to reply.
I do wonder about he consequences of self administration. I mean if I ended up getting sick with like cancer or some shit 20 years from now, how do you deal with that while still illegally running juice?
What about my life insurance, if I could hit by a truck tomorrow and they found elevated test in my system could they deny a claim to my wife and kids? This is insurance were talking about they’ll do anything not to pay.
I think there’s a lot more to consider externally and I know my reasons are 90% selfish.
But these are all what ifs and as iron yuppie pointed out you only get one go round in this life right.
I really wanted just one moderate cycle to get me through middle age with a bit of a kick, I’m not entirely sure I want to do that if it’s a guarantee I’ll end up trt. Seriously I change my mind in this shit every five minutes… Wait is that a sign of high E? Haha
I’m flattered t_sizz and thanks for your kind words. I get it man. It seems like something so simple and for some guys it is. Except that it isn’t! It’s one thing if your test is already in the tank. If you’re putting up numbers that look pretty darn good already, it’s hard to convince yourself that it’s a good idea to permanently alter your body function. I mean aside from people that make a living performing at the highest level (professional BB, athlete, etc) you have to ask yourself the inevitable why?
If you can satisfy the answer to that in your own mind, and are prepared to take that chance, then by all means do your thing. If you can’t, then put the brakes on…reevaluate…and hold off until you CAN satisfy the question. While there are never any guarantees, you do have to be able to live with your decision…so I’m just saying, not just to you but reminding myself as well, if the worse case scenario is acceptable to you, then pin away and enjoy it! If not, then hold off until it is…maybe that’s next week…maybe that’s never. Your choice is you choice my friend.
Thanks again and I wish you well, no matter how you decide.
Sounds like you’re taking the decision seriously. And yes, iron_yuppie makes a very valid point. If you can better yourself, then why wouldn’t you? I agree with that whole heartedly…My only question is are you SURE that this is going to better you? From your numbers it’s questionable that your current level of personal satisfaction is ENTIRELY the fault of test. If you had numbers that were completely washed down the shitter it would be different. What if you start pinning and it feels great…for about a week? What happens if your body responds by throwing E2 in the tank, or even worse, shoots it to the moon? What if what if what if??? Lol I know that all of these issues can be worked through over time but be sure that it won’t be fun, and you’ll likely feel worse than you do now until you get it figured out!
From your first post, the best advice I could possibly give you, not as a guru in TRT because obviously I’m not, but as a middle aged husband and father, is dial in your diet. Keep working your ass off and get in the best natural shape of your life. See if that makes you feel better. It sounds like you were feeling great until your medical issues started. Bounce back from that, physically and mentally, and see where it goes. If you don’t feel better then go get another lab done and see what your levels look like at that point, and then revisit this topic again.
I wish there were more absolutes in this game, but sadly there aren’t…if you decide to play, it’s great when you win, but make sure that you’re gonna be ok if you lose as well.
I don’t want to convince you or any other member here one way or the other. It’s a very personal choice and far be it from me to want to influence you…I just want to help people to think about it and then make the best decision possible for themselves, based on their own situations and level of comfort. If you have doubts, hold off until you don’t. That’s all I’m trying to say.
Dude you should be a guru, you spit out some true words of wisdom.
I read something today that really hit home and sealed my decision at least for the short term.
If I went on a 10 week cycle then the 2 weeks pre pct then 4 weeks of pct that’s a 16 week commitment. 16 weeks of having to make sure I really have everything dialed in to get the most benefit from the cycle. Now the question was posed, if I fully committed to diet, training, recovery etc and worked my arse off for those 16 weeks without test could I achieve what I wanted?
The answer is yes, I think I could.
I need my 6 pack back, I need my squat back to 2x body weight, I need my aerobic capacity firing so I can box rounds. This is all achievable naturally, amd I know because I’ve done it before. I’m not at an age where I’m hunting new ground, I want to be fit and healthy. I’ve got a beautiful wife and 3 great kids. I have a fantastic job and we lead a very comfortable lifestyle. I don’t need the risk, not yet anyway.
I’m glad I put some effort in to learn about this and allow myself to come to a decision I feel happy with, and I thank everyone for their responses. Now I need to go do some squats.