Praying for Pookie

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
So it does Vroom, so it does…

and…?[/quote]

I find it interesting that the INTERPRETATION you follow has apparently only really been in vogue for a couple hundred years… strange indeed that everyone from Christ’s time until the 1800’s viewed things differently.

I mean, if the bible was the literal word of God, don’t you find it amazing that nobody felt that way for the first 1800 years after Christ’s time? I mean, how the hell could they have missed it for so bloody long?

A number of evangelicals in the 19th century prepared the way for the movement. American evangelist Dwight L. Moody (1837-1899) and British preacher and father of dispensionalism John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) among others propounded ideas and themes carried into fundamentalist Christianity. There is no single founder of fundamentalism.

On another note, if you are willing to accept interpretations that are only a couple hundred years old, as brought about by certain men, who is to say that a newer and more accurate viewpoint cannot or has not occurred?

Apparently, original thinking on this issue is still acceptable…

162

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
So it does Vroom, so it does…

and…?

I find it interesting that the INTERPRETATION you follow has apparently only really been in vogue for a couple hundred years… strange indeed that everyone from Christ’s time until the 1800’s viewed things differently.

I mean, if the bible was the literal word of God, don’t you find it amazing that nobody felt that way for the first 1800 years after Christ’s time? I mean, how the hell could they have missed it for so bloody long?
[/quote]

What are you talking about? For the first, 100 years or so all of the Christians were fundamentalists.

Read the New Testament – the writings of the first Christians. The fact is that people got away from this and it was brought back as “fundamentalism.” So your entire suppostion is incorrect Vroom!

Fundamentalism was a movement back to the original orthodox interpretation of God’s Word and Christ’s work, nothing more and nothing less. Also, the litany of Christian martyrs throughout history attests to the fact that fundamentalists have always existed. You should read a bit of Christian history as well as the Christian Bible.

As stated, I’ll accept God’s ordained interpretation which is the Bible itself.

[quote]

Apparently, original thinking on this issue is still acceptable…[/quote]

? Make sense Vroom…

…after all it is after midnight, and so it is the Lord’s Day.

163

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
So it does Vroom, so it does…

and…?

I find it interesting that the INTERPRETATION you follow has apparently only really been in vogue for a couple hundred years… strange indeed that everyone from Christ’s time until the 1800’s viewed things differently.

I mean, if the bible was the literal word of God, don’t you find it amazing that nobody felt that way for the first 1800 years after Christ’s time? I mean, how the hell could they have missed it for so bloody long?

A number of evangelicals in the 19th century prepared the way for the movement. American evangelist Dwight L. Moody (1837-1899) and British preacher and father of dispensionalism John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) among others propounded ideas and themes carried into fundamentalist Christianity. There is no single founder of fundamentalism.

On another note, if you are willing to accept interpretations that are only a couple hundred years old, as brought about by certain men, who is to say that a newer and more accurate viewpoint cannot or has not occurred?

Apparently, original thinking on this issue is still acceptable…[/quote]

Vroom,

By the way, you are discussing issues here on this forum. I thought you said that this wasn’t happening.

You just went and disproved your diatribe of earlier. :slight_smile:

164

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
What are you talking about? For the first, 100 years or so all of the Christians were fundamentalists.[/quote]

Let me ask you a question. How old are the various writings in the bible? By this, I mean, when were the various writings first assembled into something like the bible?

Your “word of God” did not exist as such in the timeframe that you would refer to adherents as fundamentalists. Whatever they were fundamentalists of, it was not the same as fundamentalism based on todays bible.

Good luck with that.

I honestly think that “diefying” the bible in this way is akin to idolatry. The damned thing is a book written by men. To treat it as tantamount to God is quite simply, dangerous.

Be careful.

165

Steveo
Thank you so promptly replying, and I have a feeling in the end this will be a point in which we will have to agree to disagree. Logically I do not see how the future can be known with out the existence of something close to the idea of fate or divine plan. If god knows the future, then it has been decided already; and if the future has already been decided, then the idea of choice is nothing but an illusion. If god knows the future, than he already knows whether we are going to heaven or hell, and what I perceive as my own free will to kill this bum or go to church and seek salvation is something actually quite to the contrary.

I see where you are coming from to an extent by saying that just because god knows the future doesn’t mean he caused it, but in some ways I will have to disagree. If you knew a man was going to commit murder, and had the power to stop him but instead did nothing, do you not think that you would dirtied by the consequences? Not necessarily by committing an action against god, but sinned by not acting when you had the power to do so. Or another good classic example used by Mark Twain is Frankenstein. Dr. Frankenstein created a creature that (depending on which story you follow) was quite evil by many standards and went about killing towns people.

Do you not hold Dr. Frankenstein accountable for the destruction, pain, and suffering his creature has caused? Is he not dirtied even if in a small amount by the terrible things his creature has done?
I know the standard response of the ways of god are beyond the understanding of man, but how can I have faith in a being that appears to have a very large double standard?

166

[quote]Agnostic wrote:
Steveo
Thank you so promptly replying, and I have a feeling in the end this will be a point in which we will have to agree to disagree. Logically I do not see how the future can be known with out the existence of something close to the idea of fate or divine plan. If god knows the future, then it has been decided already; and if the future has already been decided, then the idea of choice is nothing but an illusion. If god knows the future, than he already knows whether we are going to heaven or hell, and what I perceive as my own free will to kill this bum or go to church and seek salvation is something actually quite to the contrary.

I see where you are coming from to an extent by saying that just because god knows the future doesn’t mean he caused it, but in some ways I will have to disagree. If you knew a man was going to commit murder, and had the power to stop him but instead did nothing, do you not think that you would dirtied by the consequences? Not necessarily by committing an action against god, but sinned by not acting when you had the power to do so. Or another good classic example used by Mark Twain is Frankenstein. Dr. Frankenstein created a creature that (depending on which story you follow) was quite evil by many standards and went about killing towns people.

Do you not hold Dr. Frankenstein accountable for the destruction, pain, and suffering his creature has caused? Is he not dirtied even if in a small amount by the terrible things his creature has done?
I know the standard response of the ways of god are beyond the understanding of man, but how can I have faith in a being that appears to have a very large double standard?
[/quote]

That’s where the faith part comes in.
[b][i]

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” Hebrews 11:6

“Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteousb man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.” Isaiah 55: 6-9

“But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15
[/i][/b]

I could go into more and more scriptures, but suffice it for now to say that the Bible teaches that man is indeed responsible for what he does, individually, with the message of God. That God is God and therefore knows what will happen, doesn’t mean that he has caused it. This is an essential point and one that cannot be overlooked. The Bible goes out of its way to say that God is not the author of sin. Therefore, within the bounds that God gives his creation, we do have a choice. God, being God, of course already knows what that choice will be. However, that being said, since God commands all to believe, in some respect, we do have the opportunity to believe. Otherwise God would be a liar.

God is not man – His thoughts and ways are beyond our mere intellectualy comprehension. Afterall, if we could place God in our intellectual framework, He would cease to be God, because we would then be in effect, of greater knowledge than He. The fact that there are things that we cannot really intellectually grasp, but must take on faith, only serves to remind us how great an awesome God is!

167

[quote]Agnostic wrote:
Steveo
Thank you so promptly replying, and I have a feeling in the end this will be a point in which we will have to agree to disagree. Logically I do not see how the future can be known with out the existence of something close to the idea of fate or divine plan. If god knows the future, then it has been decided already; and if the future has already been decided, then the idea of choice is nothing but an illusion. If god knows the future, than he already knows whether we are going to heaven or hell, and what I perceive as my own free will to kill this bum or go to church and seek salvation is something actually quite to the contrary.

I see where you are coming from to an extent by saying that just because god knows the future doesn’t mean he caused it, but in some ways I will have to disagree. If you knew a man was going to commit murder, and had the power to stop him but instead did nothing, do you not think that you would dirtied by the consequences? Not necessarily by committing an action against god, but sinned by not acting when you had the power to do so. Or another good classic example used by Mark Twain is Frankenstein. Dr. Frankenstein created a creature that (depending on which story you follow) was quite evil by many standards and went about killing towns people.

Do you not hold Dr. Frankenstein accountable for the destruction, pain, and suffering his creature has caused? Is he not dirtied even if in a small amount by the terrible things his creature has done?
I know the standard response of the ways of god are beyond the understanding of man, but how can I have faith in a being that appears to have a very large double standard?
[/quote]

The Franenstein example is not a good one. Dr. Frankenstein didn’t make the monster in his own image and place him in a perfect environment and commanded him to serve himself for good. However, that is exactly what God did with man. However, he didn’t make us robots and so when man decided to sin, he did this on his own. God owes us nothing and could if he wishes consume us all immediately. The fact that God allows sin in the world, at least temporarily, but also provides a way of salvation, shows only the grace and love of God.

This is difficult for a 21st Century American to grasp, but it God’s scheme of things, we deserve nothing. The fact that we have anything – let alone the opportunity to know and serve God – shows the love and mercy of God.

Don’t blame God for man’s sin and don’t think that he has caused it just because he allows it and knows it. He also sent His Son to die for our sins.

168

LOL I leave for like six months and we still have the same damn threads popping up around here!

If y’all want to pray for pookie, then say a “Ramen”. Didn’t he have the FSM for an avatar for a while? :slight_smile:

169

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Was gone for a while.

What bothers me here is that I started the thread for a specific purpose. Several people then came to spew on it. They bitched about a religious thread.

Wow you are getting arrogant. No, you started another thread so you could look down your nose at us filthy little atheists.

Keep your prayers and your threads. This is some bullshit.[/quote]

Hey, he admitted his atheism. Good, now admit your nihilism and you’re on the road to recovery, buddy!

Praying for someone and inviting others to do likewise is arrogant? Hmmm…have you been sneaking behind the bags of potting soil again and smoking certain other ‘plants’?

170

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Was gone for a while.

What bothers me here is that I started the thread for a specific purpose. Several people then came to spew on it. They bitched about a religious thread.

Wow you are getting arrogant. No, you started another thread so you could look down your nose at us filthy little atheists.

Keep your prayers and your threads. This is some bullshit.

Hey, he admitted his atheism. Good, now admit your nihilism and you’re on the road to recovery, buddy!

Praying for someone and inviting others to do likewise is arrogant? Hmmm…have you been sneaking behind the bags of potting soil again and smoking certain other ‘plants’?

[/quote]

God is not entertainment. If you were true in your efforts, you would have kept this in private messages. You are a fraud.

171

[quote]Professor X wrote:

God is not entertainment. If you were true in your efforts, you would have kept this in private messages. You are a fraud.[/quote]

Well, now that is being quite judgmental there pox.

Where does it say in your Bible that praying for someone publicly is automatically grounds for being a fraud?

Between your rantings on this thread and you attacks on other “Christain” threads it’s you who should examine his own sincerity.

Just a suggestion.

172

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:

God is not entertainment. If you were true in your efforts, you would have kept this in private messages. You are a fraud.

Well, now that is being quite judgmental there pox.

Where does it say in your Bible that praying for someone publicly is automatically grounds for being a fraud?

Between your rantings on this thread and you attacks on other “Christain” threads it’s you who should examine his own sincerity.

Just a suggestion.[/quote]

This was not a public prayer. What are you smoking? Who has actually prayed publically in this thread? Did you read a prayer somewhere?

This was a scream for more attention. This was a chance to uplift one particular poster’s own image, not God. Who are you fooling? Guess what…it isn’t anyone else.

173

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Where does it say in your Bible that praying for someone publicly is automatically grounds for being a fraud?
[/quote]

Matthew 6:5-6

[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

…and I’d include the damn PMs in there too. You wanna pray for me, fine; I don’t need to know whether it’s twice daily, every sunday or for the next 30 days.

Pray all you want, but listen to Matthew: STFU about it.

174

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:

God is not entertainment. If you were true in your efforts, you would have kept this in private messages. You are a fraud.

Well, now that is being quite judgmental there pox.

Where does it say in your Bible that praying for someone publicly is automatically grounds for being a fraud?

Between your rantings on this thread and you attacks on other “Christain” threads it’s you who should examine his own sincerity.

Just a suggestion.[/quote]

Ahhhh. Remember. A man is always given away by his speech. Words to the wise for all.

175

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Ahhhh. Remember. A man is always given away by his speech. Words to the wise for all.
[/quote]

Indeed. To borrow from Pookie…
[i]
Matthew 6:5-6
[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
[/i]
Looks like we have a few of those street corner hypocrites in our midst. Boo! I say we pelt them with fruits and vegetables.

176

It is a sad day when the people you are supposed to be preaching to know the word of God better than people acting as if they are so virtuous.

Bottom line, there is no way a thread like this should have been started as a true gesture towards God on this forum just because someone is an atheist. Pray as much as you can. Just don’t come here making a show of it and pretending as if no one will catch your misdeed.

177

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:

God is not entertainment. If you were true in your efforts, you would have kept this in private messages. You are a fraud.

Well, now that is being quite judgmental there pox.

Where does it say in your Bible that praying for someone publicly is automatically grounds for being a fraud?

Between your rantings on this thread and you attacks on other “Christain” threads it’s you who should examine his own sincerity.

Just a suggestion.[/quote]

Professor X thinks he’s in the comic book/movie and actually thinks he can read minds.

178

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:

God is not entertainment. If you were true in your efforts, you would have kept this in private messages. You are a fraud.

Well, now that is being quite judgmental there pox.

Where does it say in your Bible that praying for someone publicly is automatically grounds for being a fraud?

Between your rantings on this thread and you attacks on other “Christain” threads it’s you who should examine his own sincerity.

Just a suggestion.

This was not a public prayer. What are you smoking? Who has actually prayed publically in this thread? Did you read a prayer somewhere?

This was a scream for more attention. This was a chance to uplift one particular poster’s own image, not God. Who are you fooling? Guess what…it isn’t anyone else.[/quote]

I prayed PUBLICLY for Pookie. I said a ‘Hail Mary’ for the man. Read, Professor, read!

While you’re at it, assuming that people have evil intent is rather a dour view of life, is it not? If you have an automobile accident, do you come out fighting, because obviously the other person meant to hit your car?

Sad.

179

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I prayed PUBLICLY for Pookie. I said a ‘Hail Mary’ for the man. Read, Professor, read!

While you’re at it, assuming that people have evil intent is rather a dour view of life, is it not? If you have an automobile accident, do you come out fighting, because obviously the other person meant to hit your car?

Sad.

[/quote]

There is just as much moral fault in the parents who raised the kids who shot up Columbine high school as the kids themselves. The parents are at fault due to their own ignorance of what their actions or inactions helped to create.

Apparently, I am not alone in noting that your grab for attention is not leading to productive discussion. It is not heading into deeper debate or a firmer grasp of knowledge. Its degradation could have been avoided by changing your approach. You are apparently too arrogant to even consider that you made a mistake. Too bad. It seems quite apparent to many others.

180

As I read over this and other threads, I have to wonder if Jesus wouldn’t appreciate it if some who want to appear to do his will would just sit down and shut up and let him handle it from here. The arrogance displayed is enough to make me wonder if maybe some of these guys are actually working for the other team.