Praying for Pookie

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
245

[quote]ShaunW wrote:
I?m in agreeance with you on the numbers Agnostic ? as you say, billions have lived and died pre jews / pre christians and thus pre biblical rules ? so how can the bible be regarded as the true and literal word of god without condemning 99.995% of our ancestors to the great gnashing?
I?d like the hardcore christians on this thread to have a go at this answer.

Then there is ?the lets take this that much further? We are one planet in a solar system. There are billions of solar systems in our galaxy. There are billions of galaxies in this universe. There may be multiple universes - unknown. If there is one true universal/multiversal god, and the salvation of all sentient beings depends on one bloke who died roughly 2000yrs ago, here on our rock?,where does that leave the potential multi-billions of civilisations out there which might exist but we don?t know about?
It?s a bit rough for them isn?t it?
Ha - just thinking about it, there is as much evidence for alien civilisations existing as there is for god and jesus existing!

There really is too much inconsistancy, and, quiet frankly, insanity in the bible for me to even consider any word of it true. One may find some common sense codes and morals to adhere to, but as for the overall story, well??.
[/quote]

I don’t even feel like getting into a deep debate on the issue, but you seem confused. Jesus died for the sins of all of those who came before him and after him. That was his purpose. If you didn’t know this, then you are missing key elements of a religion that you are trying to judge and discredit.

246

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
danmaftei wrote:
Because I don’t feel like asking each of them in their own PMs, to Irish, ProfX and FlopHat, are you guys Christian?

This question is so funny! Usually people who are Christians stick out like a sore thumb. If you have to ask, you should already have a glimpse as to the answer - non-Christian, false Christian, backslidden Christian.

Please don’t try to get biblcial truth from thease guys. Find someone who is well versed with the bible for that.[/quote]

Just because someone doesn’t preach 24/7 and throw their religion in everyone’s face does not mean they’re not religious.

Without even knowing the first thing about Prof X, I have a feeling he’s a “truer” Christian than this HeadHunter fellow.

Not all Christians stick out like a sore thumb.

247

Ok profX we won?t debate. I?ll just state my position
According to
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-2440.html
Sin is any deliberate action, attitude, or thought that goes against God.
According to
http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-sin.html
there are 3types of sin: imputed sin, inherited sin and personal sin

So in order to sin, we have to disparage Jehova, and have imputed and inherited sin from Eve and Adam??.
So the native Africans, Australians, sth Americans, etc who lived 10000 yrs ago sinned againsd Jehova? Without knowing he/she/it existed?

Paleontology, geology, evolutionary science and maternal mitochondrial dna also say the human ace is not decended from the 54 children of Eve (I?m sure you know the consequences of ongoing inbreeding).
The native Papua New Guinians did not inherit anything from this ficticious woman.

So we can say for these groups of people as an example, they do not experience inherited nor imputed sin, nor can they sin against Jehova, as they didn?t know he existed.

This is what I?m getting at ? the bible cannot be taken as the literal word of god.
I also think we are pulling a long bow to say jesus died for the sins of the people before him. Or for the people we don?t yet know about.
So I don?t know what elements are missing, nor where I am confused?

248

[quote]danmaftei wrote:
I think we need an option where we can create threads that are invitation only.

Prof, feel free to PM me or start a thread any time, I always like discussing religion if it doesn’t turn into a pissing contest.[/quote]

I will happily stay out of your threads. Being called a liar and a fraud in this thread was certainly enough for quite a while.

Please enjoy your own thread.

249

[quote]orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
haney wrote:
“Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ~ghandi

Christ seems to have done a little ‘evangelising’. Could Ghandhi have been referring to oppressive british elites and not those of us who talk about God?

But Christ was a smooth cat, that had game and moves that were so much better than yours…

He also understood that your audience should come to you and that you cannot force people to listen, because he understood people and the nature of the game…

You don?t… [/quote]

Since when did I ‘force people to listen’? Are you compulsive in that you must read my thread?

Scene: the movie ‘Hellraiser’. You have fish hooks pulling you toward the monitor. A giant talon has attached itself to your head. “Must…look…at monitor. Must…read…and…attack.”

I’m amazed how people think posting on an internet forum forces them to read it. It is truly fascinating.

252

[quote]vroom wrote:
He was not very popular for that act. Do you know why he did it?

Zeb,

This example describes reclaiming a temple from those who had usurped it for other use.

I think you need another example to make the point you started arguing.[/quote]

Actually, my point was Christ did not always do the most popular thing. And in fact usually didn’t.

253

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
He was not very popular for that act. Do you know why he did it?

I’m more interested in what he did just before: Curse a fig tree for not having any figs because it wasn’t the season.

He could’ve cursed water for being wet too, while he was at it.

Or before that, when he sends a couple of disciples to steal a colt for him.

Yup, quite a character that Jesus.
[/quote]

There we go…back to the bitter, sarcastic yet always (okay usually) funny pookie.

254

[quote]ShaunW wrote:
There really is too much inconsistancy, and, quiet frankly, insanity in the bible for me to even consider any word of it true. One may find some common sense codes and morals to adhere to, but as for the overall story, well??.
[/quote]

Yet, all true and not one contradiction!

Imagine that!

255

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
haney wrote:
“Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ~ghandi

Christ seems to have done a little ‘evangelising’. Could Ghandhi have been referring to oppressive british elites and not those of us who talk about God?

But Christ was a smooth cat, that had game and moves that were so much better than yours…

He also understood that your audience should come to you and that you cannot force people to listen, because he understood people and the nature of the game…

You don?t…

Since when did I ‘force people to listen’? Are you compulsive in that you must read my thread?

Scene: the movie ‘Hellraiser’. You have fish hooks pulling you toward the monitor. A giant talon has attached itself to your head. “Must…look…at monitor. Must…read…and…attack.”

I’m amazed how people think posting on an internet forum forces them to read it. It is truly fascinating.

[/quote]

Okay…that was funny stuff… :slight_smile:

256

Are you being flippant ZEB?, or seriosly stating the bible is consistant and true?

257

[quote]ZEB wrote:
There we go…back to the bitter, sarcastic yet always (okay usually) funny pookie.[/quote]

Since you’re here, why don’t you enlighten me. Why did Jesus curse a fig tree for not having figs out of season?

I’m sure there’s some convoluted interpretation of that act where it somehow makes enormous sense… right?

258

[quote]ShaunW wrote:
Are you being flippant ZEB?, or seriosly stating the bible is consistant and true?

[/quote]

I am being totally serious when I tell you that I have never found an inconsistency in the Bible!

259

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yet, all true and not one contradiction![/quote]

All true? Of course not.

“And not one contradiction” is correct, since there are many more than just one.

Here’s one of many: Does wisdom make you happy or miserable?

Proverbs 3:13 - Happy [is] the man [that] findeth wisdom, and the man [that] getteth understanding.

Ecclesiastes 1 1:18 - For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

260

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
There we go…back to the bitter, sarcastic yet always (okay usually) funny pookie.

Since you’re here, why don’t you enlighten me. Why did Jesus curse a fig tree for not having figs out of season?

I’m sure there’s some convoluted interpretation of that act where it somehow makes enormous sense… right?
[/quote]

I’ll be glad to help you out pookie.

If you read further you will see that Jesus used the fig tree to make a point about faith.

matthew 21: 21:

“Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what ws done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain. 'Go throw yourself into the sea and it will be done.”

Also for your own edification:

While it is true that it was not “fig season” there is still a way to tell if a fig tree is going to produce fruit.

"Toward the end of March the leaves begin to appear, and in about a week the foliage coating is complete. Coincident with [this], and sometimes even before, there appears quite a crop of small knobs, not the real figs, but a kind of early forerunner. They grow to the size of green almonds, in which condition they are eaten by peasants and others when hungry.

When they come to their own indefinite maturity they drop off. These precursors of the true fig are called taqsh in Palestinian Arabic. Their appearance is a harbinger of the fully formed appearance of the true fig some six weeks later.

So, as Mark says, the time for figs had not yet come. But if the leaves appear without any taqsh, that is a sign that there will be no figs. Since Jesus found “nothing but leaves” - leaves without any taqsh- he knew that “it was an absolutely hopeless, fruitless fig tree” and said as much."

Not that Jesus Christ could not have forseen whether the tree was going to bear fruit or not. Um…he’s Jesus Christ!

261

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’ll be glad to help you out pookie.

If you read further you will see that Jesus used the fig tree to make a point about faith.

matthew 21: 21:

“Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what ws done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain. 'Go throw yourself into the sea and it will be done.”[/quote]

Yes, “what was done to the fig tree.” Jesus wasn’t noticing only leaves (as you argue later on); he withered the tree to make a point about faith.

Mat 21:19 - And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

[quote]Also for your own edification:

While it is true that it was not “fig season” there is still a way to tell if a fig tree is going to produce fruit.

"Toward the end of March the leaves begin to appear, and in about a week the foliage coating is complete. Coincident with [this], and sometimes even before, there appears quite a crop of small knobs, not the real figs, but a kind of early forerunner. They grow to the size of green almonds, in which condition they are eaten by peasants and others when hungry.

When they come to their own indefinite maturity they drop off. These precursors of the true fig are called taqsh in Palestinian Arabic. Their appearance is a harbinger of the fully formed appearance of the true fig some six weeks later.

So, as Mark says, the time for figs had not yet come. But if the leaves appear without any taqsh, that is a sign that there will be no figs. Since Jesus found “nothing but leaves” - leaves without any taqsh- he knew that “it was an absolutely hopeless, fruitless fig tree” and said as much."

Not that Jesus Christ could not have forseen whether the tree was going to bear fruit or not. Um…he’s Jesus Christ![/quote]

Oh, so Jesus didn’t really do anything to the fig tree, then. No miracle, no whitering away. He was just an astute botanist using his knowledge to “fool” his disciples in believing he was divine.

No wonder he didn’t go for the “move a mountain” demonstration. A bit harder to fake, that one is.

But then the Bible is wrong when it claims he withered the tree on the spot, right?

I really like it when you’re trying so hard to defend your storybook that you’ll argue two opposing arguments at the same time.

262

[quote]Professor X wrote:
danmaftei wrote:
Because I don’t feel like asking each of them in their own PMs, to Irish, ProfX and FlopHat, are you guys Christian?

Yes, I am. Are you?[/quote]

Based on what?

263

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I can understand that. And I do think that the promise of a better afterlife has been used historically, especially by the Catholic Church (and now, the Muslims who are on top) in order to keep people in their proper place, and not have them really attempt to change things on a massive level.
[/quote]

Yup.

Power over someone is achieved by their yielding of it to you. This concept holds true in any context; be it religious, personal, professional, etc.

I don’t have a problem with religion until it starts to get too big for its britches. A while back, some Puritans in Massachusetts decided it would be fun to burn heretics like me at the stake. And this kind of religious persecution is not a thing of the past. Indeed, it is alive and well, at least in India:

That’s right. BEHEADED FOR WITCHCRAFT. But don’t worry, it’s not like India has nuclear weapons or anything. I mean, it’s not like we outsource jobs to them or anything.

Are there still book burnings in America?

264

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Are there still book burnings in America?[/quote]

Well of course: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/fyi/teachers.ednews/12/31/potter.book.burning.ap/

While singing “Amazing Grace” no less…

265

Hmmm…some members here say that we do not represent Christians. They then point at another group and say that THEY do.

Anyone see a problem with that reasoning?

266

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Hmmm…some members here say that we do not represent Christians. They then point at another group and say that THEY do.

Anyone see a problem with that reasoning?[/quote]

Could we stop it with the “I won’t name him, but…” and “some members” crap? If you want to say something, just say it. What are you afraid of?