Praying for Pookie

haney · March 21, 2006, 9:56am

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Hmmm…some members here say that we do not represent Christians. They then point at another group and say that THEY do.

Anyone see a problem with that reasoning?

Could we stop it with the “I won’t name him, but…” and “some members” crap? If you want to say something, just say it. What are you afraid of?
[/quote]

midgets! they creep me out…

Headhunter · March 21, 2006, 10:28am

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Hmmm…some members here say that we do not represent Christians. They then point at another group and say that THEY do.

Anyone see a problem with that reasoning?

Could we stop it with the “I won’t name him, but…” and “some members” crap? If you want to say something, just say it. What are you afraid of?
[/quote]

Well, I guess I’m afraid my prayers for you didn’t work…at least not yet.

I know this is hard to believe, but I AM NOT bsing you – I HAVE been praying for you. I know, this makes me a ‘fucktard’ and all sorts of wonderful names, but I have been praying. I am speaking sincerely to you.

Laugh and ridicule, its okay. I’ll just keep on praying.

ZEB · March 21, 2006, 1:02pm

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’ll be glad to help you out pookie.

If you read further you will see that Jesus used the fig tree to make a point about faith.

matthew 21: 21:

“Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what ws done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain. 'Go throw yourself into the sea and it will be done.”

Yes, “what was done to the fig tree.” Jesus wasn’t noticing only leaves (as you argue later on); he withered the tree to make a point about faith.

Mat 21:19 - And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Also for your own edification:

While it is true that it was not “fig season” there is still a way to tell if a fig tree is going to produce fruit.

"Toward the end of March the leaves begin to appear, and in about a week the foliage coating is complete. Coincident with [this], and sometimes even before, there appears quite a crop of small knobs, not the real figs, but a kind of early forerunner. They grow to the size of green almonds, in which condition they are eaten by peasants and others when hungry.

When they come to their own indefinite maturity they drop off. These precursors of the true fig are called taqsh in Palestinian Arabic. Their appearance is a harbinger of the fully formed appearance of the true fig some six weeks later.

So, as Mark says, the time for figs had not yet come. But if the leaves appear without any taqsh, that is a sign that there will be no figs. Since Jesus found “nothing but leaves” - leaves without any taqsh- he knew that “it was an absolutely hopeless, fruitless fig tree” and said as much."

Not that Jesus Christ could not have forseen whether the tree was going to bear fruit or not. Um…he’s Jesus Christ!

Oh, so Jesus didn’t really do anything to the fig tree, then. No miracle, no whitering away. He was just an astute botanist using his knowledge to “fool” his disciples in believing he was divine.

No wonder he didn’t go for the “move a mountain” demonstration. A bit harder to fake, that one is.

But then the Bible is wrong when it claims he withered the tree on the spot, right?

I really like it when you’re trying so hard to defend your storybook that you’ll argue two opposing arguments at the same time. [/quote]

One account states that one disciple saw it the next day and the other account states that the disciple who was with him saw it right away.

Um…you don’t like that?

Oh wait…you don’t like anything about the Bible I forgot.

sowy…

pookie · March 21, 2006, 5:09pm

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Well, I guess I’m afraid my prayers for you didn’t work…at least not yet.[/quote]

I’ll point out to you that prayer doesn’t work. So keep your hopes up if you will, but don’t hold your breath.

I have yet to receive a piano, upright or otherwise.

It shows you to be disconnected from reality, since most adult realize that “wishful thinking” (AKA prayer) doesn’t work. Many otherwise intelligent people pray for a bunch of stuff, so it’s not “intelligence” related. Or if it is, the belief is somehow able to overcome reason and logic and convince the practitioner of the efficiency of non-existent results.

I guess you interpret any sign, however tenuous, as confirmation, while ignoring any indication that might seem contrary. Psychics, homeopaths and other frauds play on the same mechanism.

Or we could look at it from the point of views of memes and memetic complexes. From that perspective, most religious memetic complexes are very resilient to any attempt at dismantling them. They’ve survived for thousands and thousands of years, even after they’ve long outlived any usefulness.

It’s your time, you can do what you want with it. If prayer had any power whatsoever, I’d urge you to use it for someone who’s really in need; but since it doesn’t work for others anymore than it’ll work for me; you can pray your head off for whoever you want.

In fact, that might be what I’d propose: Instead of praying for me, tally up all the time you’d spend doing so. When you’ve accumulated enough hours, donate that time to charity. Visit elderly people at some hospital who have no family left; spend some time helping a local charity; etc. I had written “tutor kids” but I’d rather you stayed away from impressionable young minds who can’t filter your bullshit properly.

I also question the motive behind the need to inform me and everyone else of the fact you’re praying for me; but again, I guess that makes you feel good. So have at it.

pookie · March 21, 2006, 5:12pm

[quote]ZEB wrote:
One account states that one disciple saw it the next day and the other account states that the disciple who was with him saw it right away.[/quote]

So the next day, figs where in season? Or was the tree dead? Maybe astute botanist Jesus came back during the night and poisoned the ground to make sure his “prophecy” came true?

[quote]Um…you don’t like that?

Oh wait…you don’t like anything about the Bible I forgot.

sowy… [/quote]

There are good parts to it. But overall, it’s a very uneven work. As far as fiction goes, I’ve read much better.

I guess with all the idiots who take it as “Divine Revealed Truth,” I should glad that it’s not worse than it is.

ZEB · March 21, 2006, 6:23pm

[quote]pookie wrote:

It shows you to be disconnected from reality, since most adult realize that “wishful thinking” (AKA prayer) doesn’t work.[/quote]

pookie, you really should stop trying to discourage people from coming to God. You know who wins the big one in the end don’t you?

Not only do most folks believe in prayer but even “highly educated” doctors believe in miracles!

“The poll of 1,100 physicians found 74 percent of doctors believe miracles have occurred in the past, and 73 percent believe they can occur today.”

“A plurality, 46 percent, believe prayer is very important in their own lives.”

And these are doctors!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42061

Let’s take a look at how the masses feel.

One poll:

“About 58 percent of Americans have tried prayer to relieve their pain, according to a joint study by ABC News, USA Today and Stanford University Medical Center. That’s about the same as the number of people who have taken prescription drugs for pain, the study reports.”

Another poll:

“Despite the Pacific Northwest’s status as the least-churchgoing region in the country, the recent Times poll of 500 state residents found that more than half ? 53 percent ? say they pray at least once a day.”

Imagine that? And that is in the least church going area of the country.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001900725_pollprayer11m.html

Let’s see what a CNN story had to say about prayer:

“Most research in the field looks at how people who are sick are affected by their own spiritual beliefs and practices. In general, these studies have suggested that people who are religious seem to heal faster or cope with illness more effectively than do the nondevout.”

Hey…not bad huh?

Now how do you figure that? Could it be…gasp…GOD?

Yep…I think it is.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/alternative/01/18/prayer.power.wmd/

Hey here’s one with 2000 respondents. Let’s see what this poll shows:

"According to a national survey of over 2,000 Americans, more than one-third pray for good health. About 75% of respondents say they pray to prevent illness.

Wow 75% have prayed to prevent illness!

Here read more:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3689/is_200407/ai_n9442022

One final nail in the coffin of your incredibly ridiculous comment:

"Even as medical science continues to make unprecedented advances, recent studies suggest that nearly 80 percent of Americans believe in the healing power of prayer.

http://www.slu.edu/readstory/more/6629

Your efforts at discouraging Christians are not going to work my very confused and bitter friend!

ZEB · March 21, 2006, 6:29pm

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:

So the next day, figs where in season? Or was the tree dead? Maybe astute botanist Jesus came back during the night and poisoned the ground to make sure his “prophecy” came true?[/quote]

Wow, now I know you are a smart guy in many ways, so please stop playing.

He saw the tree would not bear fruit (either through the lack of proper buds, or divinely.) He killed the tree in front of a disciple. The disciple saw it and commented. The next day a different disciple saw it and commented.

Come on…this is not hard stuff.

It’s not only the greatest book ever written, but the most well read book ever written!

And it is also a perfect work.

How about that?

[quote]I guess with all the idiots who take it as “Divine Revealed Truth,” I should glad that it’s not worse than it is.
[/quote]

Name calling again? Oh my pookie that is so beneath you.

pookie · March 21, 2006, 8:14pm

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Wow, now I know you are a smart guy in many ways, so please stop playing.

He saw the tree would not bear fruit (either through the lack of proper buds, or divinely.) He killed the tree in front of a disciple. The disciple saw it and commented. The next day a different disciple saw it and commented.

Come on…this is not hard stuff.[/quote]

As long as they were making up the whole story, they could’ve come up with a better plot.

I would’ve gone with moving the mountain.

[quote]It’s not only the greatest book ever written, but the most well read book ever written!

And it is also a perfect work.

How about that? :)[/quote]

Maybe if you read more than one, you could have better perspective.

A perfect work… Thanks for the chuckle.

pookie · March 21, 2006, 8:46pm

[quote]ZEB wrote:
pookie, you really should stop trying to discourage people from coming to God. You know who wins the big one in the end don’t you?[/quote]

We all kick the bucket. Permanently. This is not hard stuff to understand.

Wow. You’ve just proven that even “highly educated” doctors can hold funny beliefs. Congratulations.

And?

What’s with the 1% who think they only occurred in the past?

That’s what I want if I even need to be operated upon. A doctor who prays that things will go well. That’ll set me at ease.

[quote]And these are doctors!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42061
[/quote]

Ah yes, the WorldNetDaily, AKA WorldNutDaily, AKA WingNutDaily. Quite the reputable source for Fundy News.

You wouldn’t happen to have a serious scientific study to show? You know, double-blind and all that annoying stuff that tends to show that prayer works just as well as… well, nothing.

Yes! The masses! How could they ever be wrong!

[quote]One poll:

“About 58 percent of Americans have tried prayer to relieve their pain, according to a joint study by ABC News, USA Today and Stanford University Medical Center. That’s about the same as the number of people who have taken prescription drugs for pain, the study reports.”

They’ve “tried” prayer? Why doesn’t it say anything about whether it worked at all? And if prayer works so well, please explain the record profits the pharmaceutical industry is raking in?

We’ve got busloads of your little old ladies coming here to buy their prescriptions drugs. Why do you think that is? Are you going to tell me that these are all atheist little old ladies? Or is it because prayer isn’t doing shit for them?

How’bout Viagra? Whatever happened to praying for a boner? “Please God, gimme a woody!”

[quote]Another poll:

“Despite the Pacific Northwest’s status as the least-churchgoing region in the country, the recent Times poll of 500 state residents found that more than half ? 53 percent ? say they pray at least once a day.”[/quote]

You forgot to include a point here. Unless you’re trying to show that most people in a rich country have enough time in a day for trivial occupations. I’m sure more than 53% watch TV at least once a day too.

Yes, duly noted. If I ever move to the US, I’ll make sure to make the Pacifig Northwest my first consideration.

Instead of giving me the story about the studies, why don’t you provide the references to the studies and I’ll explain to you what they did wrong. Homeopathic studies conducted by homeopaths also show great results.

It’s a change from the boring Scripture, I’ll grant you that.

Have you checked with Santa? 'Cause he’s jolly and giving, you know. None of that “they shall surely be put to death” stuff for him.

Well good for you. What about UFO abductions? Do you buy those too? Are UFOs the cars of angels?

A whole 2000? Wow! An astonishing 0.00003% of the world’s population!!! How can that be wrong?

Ok. That doesn’t mean it works. When I was young, I prayed for a bike and I eventually got a bike. Turns out I also asked my dad and he bought me one for my birthday.

If I pray for good health, and I’m not sick tomorrow, does that mean prayer works? What about when I get sick, say, next year? Does prayer still work then?

[quote]Here read more:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3689/is_200407/ai_n9442022[/quote]

You seem to operate under the notion that if you show me enough ridiculous articles about prayer, that’ll somehow convince me. Please remove yourself from under that notion. Thanks.

[quote]One final nail in the coffin of your incredibly ridiculous comment:

"Even as medical science continues to make unprecedented advances, recent studies suggest that nearly 80 percent of Americans believe in the healing power of prayer.

http://www.slu.edu/readstory/more/6629[/quote]

Again, all that shows is that 80% of Americans believe in fantasy make-believe stuff. In no way does it make “prayer” any more effective.

I’ll tell you that 99.9% of Americans, when they get sick, go to the hospital, not to church. After the doctors have worked their medical wonders and made them all better, then they give thanks to God. Funny how that works.

I don’t have any illusions as to whether you’ll lose yours. I’m just pointing out that praying for me (or for anything else), no matter how many of you do it and for how long, produces nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love it if magic and wishes were true, but the world simply doesn’t work that way.

vroom · March 21, 2006, 9:43pm

I love it. Pookie is basically telling you how to actually be a better Christian.

How fucking ironic!

I can actually imagine Pookie, who doesn’t believe, acting more in line with the teachings of your religion than you do yourself Headhunter.

Doesn’t say a fuck of a lot for the inner workings of your brainpan.

lothario1132 · March 21, 2006, 10:20pm

[quote]pookie wrote:
… In fact, that might be what I’d propose: Instead of praying for me, tally up all the time you’d spend doing so. When you’ve accumulated enough hours, donate that time to charity. Visit elderly people at some hospital who have no family left; spend some time helping a local charity; etc… [/quote]

This is what I meant by living a life of goodness and meaning. Well played, pookster.

Although I’d like to point out that there’s nothing strictly “christian” about acting in a benevolent and compassionate way. That’s just being a good and valuable human being. In other words, this activity has nothing to do with religion… and at what point did religion corner the market on goodness? Perhaps that is their way to demonize those of us who walk around with our eyes open and our wallets closed?

“OOOOO!! He doesn’t say that he believes in Jesus/Buddha/Allah/Jehovah/Zeus/Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! He MUST be a shallow and uncaring person, then.”

Do the christian posters in this thread ever find themselves saying something like this? Or are y’all too busy feeling sorry for us — OOPS I mean “praying for us” (how did that slip out?) — hellbent and unrepentant “sinners”?

Like pookie, I would rather you find something constructive to do rather than waste your time on us. A Wiccan candle ceremony has the exact same chance of accomplishing what your prayers can.

Headhunter · March 22, 2006, 9:24am

[quote]vroom wrote:
In fact, that might be what I’d propose: Instead of praying for me, tally up all the time you’d spend doing so. When you’ve accumulated enough hours, donate that time to charity. Visit elderly people at some hospital who have no family left; spend some time helping a local charity; etc.

I love it. Pookie is basically telling you how to actually be a better Christian.

How fucking ironic!

I can actually imagine Pookie, who doesn’t believe, acting more in line with the teachings of your religion than you do yourself Headhunter.

Doesn’t say a fuck of a lot for the inner workings of your brainpan.[/quote]

Vroom,

Just curious. Are you assuming that I don’t do any of those things? I know I can’t prove any of that, but if you search, you will find my Adopt-a-soldier thread.

Just like Prof X, you make assumptions that are unwarranted and stupid (to say the least). You are a nihilist. You have said actually evil and insulting things on this site. You then pass these off as ‘sarcasm’ or ‘humor’.

What’s that tell you about your ‘brainpan’?

Pookie,

You’re right. Like an investor, a person should invest his time only in projects with a potential return. You have no potential. I had hopes, but I should have known that once you signed my ‘Jaws of Satan’ thread, that you are bound for dissolution. I WILL invest my time elsewhere.

Professor_X · March 22, 2006, 9:38am

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Just like Prof X, you make assumptions that are unwarranted and stupid (to say the least). [/quote]

It is quite funny how many people seem to make these same “assumptions”. It must be interesting believing that it is everyone else who is crazy.

haney · March 22, 2006, 10:01am

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:

“OOOOO!! He doesn’t say that he believes in Jesus/Buddha/Allah/Jehovah/Zeus/Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! He MUST be a shallow and uncaring person, then.”

[/quote]

I think this says it all!

Loth, I was wondering where you were…

Headhunter · March 22, 2006, 10:12am

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Just like Prof X, you make assumptions that are unwarranted and stupid (to say the least).

It is quite funny how many people seem to make these same “assumptions”. It must be interesting believing that it is everyone else who is crazy.[/quote]

I don’t think you are crazy at all, Prof. You have core beliefs that differ from mine. When I present mine, you call me a fraud, liar, and so forth. How does that imply that I think everyone else is crazy?

BTW: isn’t that an assumption in and of itself? You think that I think everyone is crazy? I think you, Pookie, Ivan, Irish, Zeb and so forth are actually quite intelligent and sane. IMO, some of you have erroneous opinions. So what?

vroom · March 22, 2006, 10:32am

[quote]Headhunter spewed:

You are a nihilist. You have said actually evil and insulting things on this site. [/quote]

Nitwit. You can try to declare me anything you like, but that does not make it so.

I truly doubt I’ve said anything that is actually evil, but I have no doubt that you feel people that have differing views than you in some regards are evil.

As for insults, fuck off idiot, how many times have you gone and insulted people. As if that has anything to do with the price of tea in China.

I’m pretty confident the future will be filled with more insults… coming from self-righteous gasbags such as yourself as well as gasbags such as myself. Basically, everybody!

Anyway, the post that caused you to eject this hatred of yours, this spew, was nothing more than stating that I can imagine Pookie being better to his fellow man than you.

Your response to such a post merely reinforces that impression.

For such a kind and loving person, you come across like a sanctimonious holier-than-though bull in a China shop, bragging about your actions, how tough you are, what you do and so on.

If you do all that stuff, that’s great, good for you. However, your ego and this forum are currently not getting along very well… and crowing about yourself will only make it worse.

If you are as “big” a man as you suggest you are, why do you act so “small”? I tell you, one reasonable and nice post from yourself and I’ll respond in kind, moving on and having a discussion on a new topic.

Might I suggest taking a step back? It seems you are taking some of these things too personally. This is only an Internet forum, it isn’t that big a deal y’know.

ZEB · March 22, 2006, 10:57am

pookie,

I know that there are no amount of posts that will change your mind. You are goig to cling to your strong belief (hey is that like a religion?) no matter what.

The only way you change is if you feel a “need” to change. That can only be done by the holy spirit…an act of God.

Take care pook I’m sure we’ll be talking again.

And, I am going to pray for you. Try not to hate me for that.

pookie · March 22, 2006, 11:49am

[quote]ZEB wrote:
pookie,

I know that there are no amount of posts that will change your mind. You are goig to cling to your strong belief (hey is that like a religion?) no matter what.[/quote]

That’s because it’s not the amount of posts that are important, it’s the content.

I’ve changed beliefs in the past, and I might again in the future, given the right evidence/arguments/etc.

Atheism is not a belief system like others are; I have no personal interest in the non-existence of God being true (in fact, the opposite would be quite nice. Who doesn’t want an afterlife?). I just can’t honestly believe in it when I find the preponderance of evidence to be against it. Nothing a piano or two couldn’t change.

A swift blow to the head might also do it.

The day I start hating people for doing something as innocuous as praying for me, please point out what a moron I’ve become. (Or more of a moron, depending on your current point of view…)

Headhunter · March 22, 2006, 6:31pm

[quote]vroom wrote:
Headhunter spewed:

You are a nihilist. You have said actually evil and insulting things on this site.