Power of Christ

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
You may disagree with the methods, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t legitimate. Have you read in the New Testament where Jesus Himself “confronted” the people of His day with the Truth of God’s Word? Do you have a problem with Jesus’ “methods” Prof?

I have a problem with YOUR methods. You are not God.

How is this being superior? I have also stated that the Bible teaches that nobody can be superior, except for the Lord Jesus.
Again, you are misrepresenting me and some of the others as well. Intentional?

You are misrepresenting yourself. No one has to do anything in that regard. Several people are all telling you the same thing. Funny how you think everyone else is wrong on the issue.

Who gives you the right to assume my motive? Isn’t this what you claim to be disgusted about.

I don’t have to assume anything. If you truly wanted a deep discussion about religion, you would have approached this differently. You are either extremely stupid and didn’t anticipate this response, or you expected it and did it your way regardless. For the last time, several discussions have taken place on this forum and none have fallen to the level yours did. That should tell you something…and that something is NOT that you are so righteous.
[/quote]

Professor X I respect your right to have an opinion, but I remind you that it is only your opinion. There are many people on this thread and others who seem interested in having a discussion about the Bible and salvation. I am not forcing anyone to do anything – that is the beauty of freedom on these and other public forums.

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…

122

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Professor X I respect your right to have an opinion, but I remind you that it is only your opinion. There are many people on this thread and others who seem interested in having a discussion about the Bible and salvation. I am not forcing anyone to do anything – that is the beauty of freedom on these and other public forums.

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…
[/quote]

I am going to explain this one last time and then I’m done. I am only doing this because I believe you really are a little slow and really need the explanation.

I LOVE having deep discussions about the bible. I have had MANY on this forum. Anyone who has been here for over a year already knows this. One of the best discussions we ever had was started about evolution and went on for over 20 pages and no one resorted to name calling. For the last time, dear slow one, no one is trying to stop the discussion of religion and you do not hold the patent on “true Christianity”.

To make it clear this one last time, you are being hammered because of your “holier than though” superior attitude and SEVERAL people have told you this now. How many more responses will it take before you quit thinking it is because I don’t like God?

YOU, dear slow one, are the reason this thread degraded. YOU, dear slow one, are the problem here, not the discussion of God.

The problem, dear slow one…IS

Y O U.

123

[quote]Professor X wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Professor X I respect your right to have an opinion, but I remind you that it is only your opinion. There are many people on this thread and others who seem interested in having a discussion about the Bible and salvation. I am not forcing anyone to do anything – that is the beauty of freedom on these and other public forums.

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…

I am going to explain this one last time and then I’m done. I am only doing this because I believe you really are a little slow and really need the explanation.
[/quote]

So it’s OK to be opinionated, act with intellectual superiority, etc. so long as it is YOU who is doint it?. A bit of intellectualy hypocracy I would say Prof.

You are the one who is acting arrogant – sort of like the pot calling the kettle black, wouldn’t you say?

No, I don’t – but Jesus Christ does! How many times do I have to write this to you? . If you want to understand Christianity, you must certainly need to understand Christ, right?

By the way, the last time I looked it is YOU who is resorting to “name calling.” I haven’t called you anything except what the Bible calls unbelievers. Why do you feel that you have rights that you seem to decry others for? Again I say who’s acting superior and arrogant?

[quote]

To make it clear this one last time, you are being hammered because of your “holier than though” superior attitude and SEVERAL people have told you this now. How many more responses will it take before you quit thinking it is because I don’t like God?

YOU, dear slow one, are the reason this thread degraded. YOU, dear slow one, are the problem here, not the discussion of God.

The problem, dear slow one…IS

Y O U.[/quote]

The problem you have, dear Prof. X, is that if you don’t believe in the Word of God – the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and haven’t asked him to be your personal Savior from sin, YOU have the problem, not me. Eternity awaits – read your Bible!

Believe it or not, I don’t want you to spend eternity regretting your unbelief – come to Jesus!

Take care…

124

[quote]DPH wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Good idea - especially remember the guys who claim to be Christians. It is amazing these Christians (or false Christians as I usually call them)

please, I’m curious…

what does it take to be a ‘true’ Christian from your point of view?[/quote]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

This is a quote from the Bible and it is the only way that one becomes a true Christian.

However, the Bible also says that a true Christian is a “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:13) and that he or she will exhibit the fruit of the Spirit as found in Galatians 5. True Christians will follow Christ.

125

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
True Christians will follow Christ.
[/quote]

this statement seems ambiguous…

are you saying that accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is not enough to be a Christian?

a ‘true’ Christian doesn’t ever ‘mess up’ after accepting Jesus?

a ‘true’ Christian must also be as ‘Christ’ like as possible?

126

[quote]DPH wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
True Christians will follow Christ.

this statement seems ambiguous…

are you saying that accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is not enough to be a Christian?

a ‘true’ Christian doesn’t ever ‘mess up’ after accepting Jesus?

a ‘true’ Christian must also be as ‘Christ’ like as possible?[/quote]

No, the Bible is not saying that at all. Faith in Christ IS THE WAY – However it must be a true faith in Him alone. The Bible does speak about what a true believer (i.e., one who has put true faith in Christ alone) will look like. Sure we mess up at times, but a true beliving life is characterized by the fruit of the spirit as given in Galatians chapter 5.

Therefore, when we see a person who rejects the Bible, uses 4-letter words against Bible-believing Christians, advances Evolution over the Genesis account, and thus rejects the literal truth of God’s Word – we can suspect that that person (if he or she claims to be “Christian”) has not been born-again (i.e. is a true Christian) as the Bible says.

I hope that this clears up any percieived ambiguity for you…

127

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
The problem you have, dear Prof. X, is that if you don’t believe in the Word of God – the Living Word, Jesus Christ, and haven’t asked him to be your personal Savior from sin, YOU have the problem, not me. Eternity awaits – read your Bible!

Believe it or not, I don’t want you to spend eternity regretting your unbelief – come to Jesus!

Take care…

[/quote]

What are you talking about? Why would you write that I don’t believe in the word of God? Because I don’t like how YOU are approaching the issue? You have made huge assumptions here about my own relationship with God and you have no right to do so. My father was a preacher. I was baptised before I could walk. Who are you to judge me this falsely?

You are one arrogant little twirp and I will forever call you on it as long as you act this way. Your post here shows how backwards you really are. It is not your duty to go around judging people unworthy of God or to assume who believes in God and who doesn’t, especially when I have written several times that I do believe in God.

YOU are not God. I don’t have to like you to love God. Keep your judgements and false accusations to yourself.

You haven’t acted in any way that would make someone else consider being just like you. You need to take one long hard look in the mirror before you point fingers at anyone else. You are nowhere near as “clean” as you apparently think you are.

128

[quote]harris447 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Well, I learned everything I know about meaningless posts and hateful vendettas from your award-winning “Why I hate homos” threads.

Gee, I never said I hated homosexuals. But I have stated that I did not agree with what they do.

Did you go and get all confused again?

You have got to pay better attention my hate filled friend.

No, you merely stated that what they do was wrong and they were going to hell and should be converted forcibly to good little pussy-fuckers.

Everytime you open your mouth, you make more people dislike you. Keep talking.[/quote]

Well, my very confused friend. I never said that anyone should be converted “forcibly.” You continue to make things up as you go along. Not a very positive trait, but one I have learned to expect from you. Also, you had the opportunity to debate your side of the facts on the various gay threads and you were MIA except for the occasional “drive by” hate post.

You added nothing to that debate and you add nothing to this one.

Also, It’s not really my goal to try to get everyone to like me. If that were my goal I would never take a controversial postion. And I have taken many of them. And if it IS your goal to get people to like you…well you’re failing! You might not know this but YOU are known as the most negative person on T-Nation!

Congrats…if that’s what you were shooting for, you did it!

As I have posted previously, there will always be much controversy that surrounds Christian debtate. The Bible is in fact a controversial document. Remember the “lead character” in the New Testament was in fact killed for his words and deeds.

While everyone can “join,” not everyone will. Just like everyone CAN get into shape, but few ever do. Hence, there will be people who don’t want to be reminded of their ultimate fate. Does that mean that I am supposed to remain silent? No, actually it means the opposite!

I will no more remain silent when the subject of homosexuality or abortion comes up than I would remain silent if someone wanted to know why he can lose weight. When you can help…you help. That might be a strange concept to someone like yourself, but try to get your arms around it.

There really is a right and wrong way to do just about everything! Those “all encompassing” religions are about as worthless when it comes to your eternal salvation as a diet of all Big Macs is to your waistline. But one thing for sure when you don’t remind either of their ultimate fate you will not be controversial. But who have you helped?

There is a right and wrong way to approach just about everything.

That you are hostile toward Christians not only does not surprise me, but does not dissuade me one iota from continuing on in debate over a multitude of subjects.

In fact, if everyone (such as yourself) stood up and applauded me, then I would know that I was on the wrong side!

You can keep up your hate mongering all you want, it’s useless, but I suspect eventually (more maturity) you will find that out. I have debated far nastier dudes than you face to face and continued to speak my mind. In fact all your hate filled posts do is encourage me!

I will continue to do and say what I think is correct to help as many people as I can, both physcially and spiritually.

We will occasionally cross paths as we have. No big deal, it’s a very large forum.

129

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…
[/quote]

Steveo, you have just put your finger on the pulse of what is going on.

For example, I bet that a thread on “the beauty of bestiality” would draw less (or no) criticisim than this thread has.

130

[quote]ZEB wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…

Steveo, you have just put your finger on the pulse of what is going on.

For example, I bet that a thread on “the beauty of bestiality” would draw less (or no) criticisim than this thread has.

[/quote]

That’s stupid AND false. One post in the sex forum on cartoon images led to several pages of debate because people didn’t agree with it. Why do you think this way?

131

[quote]DPH wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
True Christians will follow Christ.

this statement seems ambiguous…

are you saying that accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is not enough to be a Christian?

a ‘true’ Christian doesn’t ever ‘mess up’ after accepting Jesus?

a ‘true’ Christian must also be as ‘Christ’ like as possible?[/quote]

It’s not that it’s ambiguous, it’s that the statement is: A) a tautology; B) an example of the ‘True Scotsman’ fallacy; and, C) a faulty comparison. To wit–

A) “True Christians follow Christ” is a self-referential statement, otherwise known as a tautology. Other examples are “Boys will be boys”, and “I am what I am.” As these statements mean nothing without previous knowledge of the subject, they are essentially meaningless.

B) The true Scotsman fallacy goes as follows:

“All true Scotsman play golf.”
“But, what about Shamus? He’s from Scotland and he doesn’t golf.”
“Ah, then he must not be a true Scotsman.”

So, you see, this is a way to limit the range of the subject by applying a bullshit modifier that can be defined at will by the party making the argument.

C) Faulty comparison

This is one I scream at my students for. In the sentence written by Little Steve, true Christian, follow Christ the person. To the movies, the mall, etc. What Little Steve intended was "True Christians follow Christ’s [i] teachings[i].

So, students, we see that Steve has shown himself to be a self-righteous schmuck three times in four words.

132

[quote]ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Well, I learned everything I know about meaningless posts and hateful vendettas from your award-winning “Why I hate homos” threads.

Gee, I never said I hated homosexuals. But I have stated that I did not agree with what they do.

Did you go and get all confused again?

You have got to pay better attention my hate filled friend.

No, you merely stated that what they do was wrong and they were going to hell and should be converted forcibly to good little pussy-fuckers.

Everytime you open your mouth, you make more people dislike you. Keep talking.

Well, my very confused friend. I never said that anyone should be converted “forcibly.” You continue to make things up as you go along. Not a very positive trait, but one I have learned to expect from you. Also, you had the opportunity to debate your side of the facts on the various gay threads and you were MIA except for the occasional “drive by” hate post.

You added nothing to that debate and you add nothing to this one.

Also, It’s not really my goal to try to get everyone to like me. If that were my goal I would never take a controversial postion. And I have taken many of them. And if it IS your goal to get people to like you…well you’re failing! You might not know this but YOU are known as the most negative person on T-Nation!

Congrats…if that’s what you were shooting for, you did it!

As I have posted previously, there will always be much controversy that surrounds Christian debtate. The Bible is in fact a controversial document. Remember the “lead character” in the New Testament was in fact killed for his words and deeds.

While everyone can “join,” not everyone will. Just like everyone CAN get into shape, but few ever do. Hence, there will be people who don’t want to be reminded of their ultimate fate. Does that mean that I am supposed to remain silent? No, actually it means the opposite!

I will no more remain silent when the subject of homosexuality or abortion comes up than I would remain silent if someone wanted to know why he can lose weight. When you can help…you help. That might be a strange concept to someone like yourself, but try to get your arms around it.

There really is a right and wrong way to do just about everything! Those “all encompassing” religions are about as worthless when it comes to your eternal salvation as a diet of all Big Macs is to your waistline. But one thing for sure when you don’t remind either of their ultimate fate you will not be controversial. But who have you helped?

There is a right and wrong way to approach just about everything.

That you are hostile toward Christians not only does not surprise me, but does not dissuade me one iota from continuing on in debate over a multitude of subjects.

In fact, if everyone (such as yourself) stood up and applauded me, then I would know that I was on the wrong side!

You can keep up your hate mongering all you want, it’s useless, but I suspect eventually (more maturity) you will find that out. I have debated far nastier dudes than you face to face and continued to speak my mind. In fact all your hate filled posts do is encourage me!

I will continue to do and say what I think is correct to help as many people as I can, both physcially and spiritually.

We will occasionally cross paths as we have. No big deal, it’s a very large forum.[/quote]

You are, like usual, wrong. I’ve shown no antipathy for religious types in general. Just you and your cohorts on this thread and in the “We hate homos” thread.

It’s not your religion (though, I know it makes you better to feel persecuted); it’s [i] you[i].

It’s your arrogance, your stupidity, your unwillingness to accept facts that people present unless they fit into the neat little lifeview that somone told you to have.

It’s your strange and sick belief that you are “helping” people by telling tham that who they are is wrong.

It’s the fact that every single article written by the staff here contains an obligatory ass-licking post from you.

And…please tell me who else thinks I’m negative? Would it be your little gang of four who swarm around you like flies on shit screaming that they’re not judgemental people, but everyone else needs to be prayed for because they’re going to hell?

You’re a running joke.

133

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
DPH wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
True Christians will follow Christ.

this statement seems ambiguous…

are you saying that accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is not enough to be a Christian?

a ‘true’ Christian doesn’t ever ‘mess up’ after accepting Jesus?

a ‘true’ Christian must also be as ‘Christ’ like as possible?

No, the Bible is not saying that at all. Faith in Christ IS THE WAY – However it must be a true faith in Him alone. The Bible does speak about what a true believer (i.e., one who has put true faith in Christ alone) will look like. Sure we mess up at times, but a true beliving life is characterized by the fruit of the spirit as given in Galatians chapter 5.

Therefore, when we see a person who rejects the Bible, uses 4-letter words against Bible-believing Christians, advances Evolution over the Genesis account, and thus rejects the literal truth of God’s Word – we can suspect that that person (if he or she claims to be “Christian”) has not been born-again (i.e. is a true Christian) as the Bible says.

I hope that this clears up any percieived ambiguity for you…

[/quote]

This is the 2nd post that Steveo has given us that describes true Christians in an appropriate way. I’ll give a few thoughts to help anyone here understand true Christianity as well.

True Christians accept the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as payment for our sins. We do not add requirements to this, and we do not take requirements from this. It is this faith in Christ alone that separates the true Christian believer from the person who is a Christian in name alone.

Christianity is not synonomous with perfection. Christians and non-Christians (or false Christians) alike sin. However, true Christians differ in that they make a good faith attempt to avoid the sin nature. Why is this? Because Christ lives in the true Christian, and with Christ in you, it grieves your soul to act in such an ill-found manner.

True Christians suject themselves to a higher power - God. They believe that God has given us his word in the Bible, and they allow the Bible to govern and correct their actions. False Christians and non-Christians ignore or misrepresent the Bible.

To put this in context in the thread - I see false Christians who spew forth perversion like a fountain. I’ll focus on the acts of one individual, without naming names of course.

This individual uses constant cursing and abusive language to get his point accross. He can be seen on threads telling homosexuals that it is OK to have gay sex, making perverted jokes, and joining in the blaspheming of Jesus Christ. I have never heard this individual speak the Gospel of Salvation even once. Yet, this individual is quick to tell Christians to shut the **** up.

This individual is a fraud. Behavior like that mentioned above shows that he in no may accepts the Bible as God’s word or as his governing authority. He can not show anyone the path to God because he does not know it. He has placed a wall of pride between himself and God, and until he allows that wall to come down, he will always remain a false-Christian and a hypocrite.

I hope this distinction helps. I am no better than anyone else here. And, I am no worse. In God’s eyes, my greatest works are still but filthy rags - just like everyone else’s.

134

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…

Steveo, you have just put your finger on the pulse of what is going on.

For example, I bet that a thread on “the beauty of bestiality” would draw less (or no) criticisim than this thread has.

That’s stupid AND false. One post in the sex forum on cartoon images led to several pages of debate because people didn’t agree with it. Why do you think this way?
[/quote]

20 pages, huh? Do you hang out in the sex forum often?

135

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…

Steveo, you have just put your finger on the pulse of what is going on.

For example, I bet that a thread on “the beauty of bestiality” would draw less (or no) criticisim than this thread has.

That’s stupid AND false. One post in the sex forum on cartoon images led to several pages of debate because people didn’t agree with it. Why do you think this way?
[/quote]

“One post” in the sex forum…lol. Wow…

136

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

The thing that puzzles me the most, is that you and others seem oh so tolerant of various opinions and views, except for those of fundamental Christians.

Interesting…

Steveo, you have just put your finger on the pulse of what is going on.

For example, I bet that a thread on “the beauty of bestiality” would draw less (or no) criticisim than this thread has.

That’s stupid AND false. One post in the sex forum on cartoon images led to several pages of debate because people didn’t agree with it. Why do you think this way?

“One post” in the sex forum…lol. Wow…[/quote]

Actually, it was an entire thread. I thought that was implied considering I wrote that there were several responses.

137

[quote]terribleivan wrote:

20 pages, huh? Do you hang out in the sex forum often?

[/quote]

Hang out? I visit that forum like I visit most forums on this site. Is sex somehow off limits to “True Christians”?

138

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
terribleivan wrote:

Thunderbolt - My intention with this thread was to show that Christians have great strength in times of trouble because of Christ. No hidden agenda. No banner waving. Nothing fraudulent or deceptive.

Here is what you said in another thread:

"Hey Steveo -

This is a fantastic idea for a post! Everytime a soul is won to God, the angels in heaven rejoice! And so do I!

Brother in Christ - By His blood alone!"

(responding to the Post Here to Accept Jesus Christ thread)

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=934564&pageNo=5

I merely wanted to show that things that decimate most people don’t decimate Christians because Christians (true Christians) are strong in God. Was the timing really that poor? In the face of constant Christian bashing, I don’t think so.

If you are watching the Super Bowl with your friends, and the game is close, and when it hits the two minutes mark, do you shut off the TV, stand up in front of the room, and begin delivering Scripture to your pals?

No? It’s because of context.

If you see a guy in the middle of his workout at a gym with his headphones on, do you go tap him on the head to start delivering tales of conversion?

No? It’s because of context.

You know - or should know - that context can determine that certain kinds of conversations have ‘right time, right place’ parameters in place. I offer that if you truly want to get people to think constructively about Christianity - truly - this thread was neither the right time nor the right place.

You don’t see that because you measure yourself through effort alone - you could be maing people less interested in Christianity than they ever have been, but you don’t care - your only goal is personal, i.e., to feel all warm and fuzzy that you tried.

That is why I think they way I do - you don’t have to be ‘embarrassed’ or ‘ashamed’ of your religion to have a clue when to bring it up and when not to based on context. Moving along…

Unfortunately, the strength of Christians didn’t show through. Instead, the hatred of atheists is what the readers have seen. Is that bad? Perhaps, and perhaps not.

Sure it did, and stop the arrogant posturing. I am a Christian and I think your thread was a bad idea. Does that disqualify me?

If any reader that see the title of this thread and pulls it up to see the power of Christ, the result may be surprising. The big question is, does it glorify God? I suggest it does. The immediate contributions from the atheists show that people void of God have no positive or constructive power - they only have hatred and perversion.

Trust me, most people antagonistic toward religion hide behind Hysteria, Hperbole, and Sarcasm - and I am no fan of it. However, fear of their responses has nothing to do with why I think this a bad thread.

Too bad the real Christians were not able to keep the original intention of the thread alive.

Exactly what is a ‘real Christian’? I find your country-club-Christianity off-putting, and I suspect all those wayward souls you hope to connect with on T-Nation do too.[/quote]

I do wonder why the point made here were never touched upon directly.

139

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
terribleivan wrote:

Exactly what is a ‘real Christian’? I find your country-club-Christianity off-putting, and I suspect all those wayward souls you hope to connect with on T-Nation do too.

Why are you posting backhanded insults like “country-club-Christianity”? See my previous post detailing true Christians and false Christians. Anyone can call themselves a Christian, but to live the Christian life - well, that is a differnt matter.

So let’s see - you said the ‘real’ Christians could not keep up the real intention of the thread? So who are they? By last count, I see two groups here - those claiming to be Christians and those who made it clear they are not.

You see three groups - non-Christians, ‘real’ Christians, and ‘fake’ Christians who claim to be Christians but aren’t really.

So who is in this last group? I am fascinated to know.

I don’t recall you being forced to particpate in this thread - same goes for everyone else. That is where free will comes in.

Yes, I voluntarily chimed in.

BTW - what have I done that led to that rude little “country-club Christian” comment? Was it the part about angels rejoicing in heaven? Again, that is biblical.

Nope, and to be honest, it wasn’t all that backhanded. It was a response to the self-righteousness of your taxonomy of ‘real’ Christians.

Part of this pithy, rank judgmentalism reminds of the first rule I ever encountered regarding Christianity: there is a God, and you are not Him.[/quote]

Also, this one seems to have been skipped.

Could it be some posters are avoiding it because they can’t blame political stance as a reason to attack what was stated?

140

[quote]harris447 wrote:

So, students, we see that Steve has shown himself to be a self-righteous schmuck three times in four words.

[/quote]

A harris-quaility post with a harris-quality ending.