Power of Christ

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
322

[quote]Professor X wrote:
terribleivan wrote:

What is it that you would like to know?

It may surprise you, but some of us have more to do with our time than to police T-Nation. In fact, the articles you speak of are not even ones I’m aware of - I guess that’s what I get for being a Christian who doesn’t visit the sex forum.

Incidently, thunderbolt has again taken things out of context. I doubt the words Christian or Christianity even came up in the articles he was reading. The fact that you and he are enticed by those articles speaks volumes about your faith (or lack thereof).

Wait, so you aren’t here to witness to all of the people on this forum, you are just here to tell other Christians that they aren’t Christian enough?[/quote]

Still can’t see where your actions are wrong, eh, prof? Except you become converted and become as little children, you shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven.

You sadden me. Even more so, the people you carry on the path to death saddens me more.

323

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DPH wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
As always, if I’ve done something unbiblical, please let me know. And, please provide scripture as evidence (please keep it in context).

Thanks :slight_smile:

unbiblical…perhaps…

have you acted like a complete fucking dick…without a doubt!

What I want to know is if they actually think they are preaching to or converting anyone by acting the way they are. [/quote]

Yes, talking about Jesus Christ on a thread entitled “Power Of Christ” was a horrible thing.

No wait…it’s YOU and your ilk who are off base for interrupting this thread from the outset.

Hmm, I wonder should I remind you of this form time to time?

324

[quote]vroom wrote:
Yes, I am a disciple of Christ. A disciple means a follower of and is, in the CONTEXT of the New Testament, synonomous with a Christian.

It is so frustrating talking to you fundies.
[/quote]

Everytime I read that word “fundy” I always think back to the old Doctor Pepper tune and place the word “fundy” in there:

“I’m a fundy, your’re a fundy wouldn’t you like to be a fundy too. Be a fundy…be a fundy…”

Okay…I guess you would have to be old enough to remember the tune. :frowning:

325

[quote]ZEB wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:

If you are looking for Biblical precedent you only need to look at Jesus Christ himself who spent his time with the worst sinners of the day.

Well and good, but that is the only reason you come here to T-Nation? To bring the message of Christianity to the unknowing? I don’t believe that for one second. You don’t come here to labor under the mission of Christ exclusively - you enjoy all sorts of benefits this site provides.

I never stated otherwise!

So why aren’t you trying to get the site to close down? Why isn’t part of your mission to get people to stop coming to this site, which obviously caters to all sorts of non-‘true’ Christian interests? This site perpetuates all the things you claim are against ‘true’ Christian behavior.

It could be for the same reason that I don’t stand out in front of porno shops with a sign. And the same reason that I don’t advocate violence against abortion clinics.

Christ called us to be “in” the world but not “of” the world. I think that we have to act with a good measure of maturity. If you look up at the title of this thread (go ahead take another look I think you forgot). You will see that it says “Power of Christ.”

Speaking of the Bible on this thread is appropriate and is also beneficial to all who may stop by and read it. If it had gotten off to it’s original intent without others rudely interupting at the very outset, it would have been far more beneficial.

Coming here to this vehicle of sin and vice and enjoying it outside any context of trying to change its nature to a more Christian one, or, at the very least, trying to get people to seek a purer website is, by your own very strict standard, nothing more than hypocrisy.

First of all, how do YOU know that I have not changed a few minds by involving myself in threads that are acceptable for Biblical discussion?

Is that a fair judgement you are making?

Also hypocrisy is an interesting word. I think you have crossed the line relative to its use here.

You rail against me because I do not speak out enough?

One could easily throw that word back in your own direction. You have called yourself a Christian yet you have never once (to my knowledge) spoken out against obviously “anti Christian” rhetoric ON ANY THREAD!

Does that earn YOU the title of hypocrite?

And as for relying on the inerrancy of Biblical text for every answer, if I did that, I would advocate a return to slavery.

Ah, a page out of pookies book. “We shall know them by the company they keep.”

Should I remind you as to WHY Jesus Christ entered the world? No, I better not do that as I might be called arrogant by an ally of yours.

Hmm…Okay…how about this approach.

Well, while I know that we can all disagree and of course none of us is ever really wrong, I will share my view on this particular issue.

May I share that view with you?

Okay I will:

Paul did encourage slaves to gain their freedom:

1Corinthians 7:21, 22:

“Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you-although if you can gain your freedom do so.
For he who ws a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s feedman…”

But of course that was not his real mission as you know.

Jesus Christ came not to free slaves, or to end corrupt kingdoms, while he could have done both and more.

(Maybe you can ask him why he didn’t heal ALL the blind while he was here)

His message was far greater: he came to free us of our sin!

I hope I didn’t offend anyone with that.

[/quote]

Very well said!

We shall know them by the company they keep!

326

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
And as for the propriety of context, i.e., there is a time and place to bring it up,along with recognition of the audience:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

[/quote]

True, so why have YOU not brought it up within the confines of a Christian thread?

327

[quote]Professor X wrote:
to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.
[/quote]

I would agree with your dear old Dad.

But when someone starts a CHRISTIAN THREAD if it is invaded by atheists/agonstics (from the outset) then Christians should simply pack up and move on.

328

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
And as for the propriety of context, i.e., there is a time and place to bring it up,along with recognition of the audience:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

That was the one I was thinking of but forgot where it was found. My dad used to make a point of this. As a preacher, he made it clear that while he would witness to anyone who asked, to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

If someone came into his church, sat down and began particpating, then used it as an opportunity to insult others there with whom his beliefs didn’t match, what would your dad have done?

Might he say: “Sir, the door of this church is unbolted. You were not forced to come in here and participate. You may leave if you don’t like this.” ?

I think your dad was probably a hell of a lot smarter than you.

[/quote]

OUCH!

329

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Please explain how me pointing out your miles and miles of posts about how gays are bad people just by dint of their existence is rooted in clear and obvious hatred. Whether you say differently or not, it’s just clear to everyone that you don’t like homosexuals.

That you cannot comprehend the difference between me being against an “act” and not the “person” is not surprising given your history of clearly confusing very simple points. And you say you are a teacher…

Let me explain it to you on a different level. If one of my children did something that was wrong (Oh my I used the word wrong) I would attempt to point out what they did wrong and why it was wrong. That does not mean that I hate my child. In fact, the reason you point out wrong behavior is for correction and it’s done out of love, not hate.

Would your definition of “love” be allowing your child to do whatever pleases him?

If gay people are dying and suffering at a far higher rate than the general population and YOU encourage it who is it that hates them? Not me!

Perhaps if you read your bible instead of thumping it, you might be able to figure stff out on your own without me having to correct your every witless post. Oh, wait…I just went an entire post without using “bad” language.

I have read the Bible several times and I am aware as to where YOU are coming from…and it’s not a good place.

And while you did get through the post without any profanity (not your usual style) you did not get through it without using your usual hate speech.

Keep trying.

Zeb, I think these guys believe that a ‘True Christian’ is someone who sits meekly in a corner, waiting for someone else to come and pat him on the head. A Christian who speaks up is a shock to them. They then somehow call the Christian who speaks up ‘arrogant’ for speaking!

Wonder who taught them that a Christian should be a meek little schmoo? Could it be the mainstream media? Why would they ever do such a thing??

[/quote]

There is much truth to what you are stating here.

I think that many have a view of Jesus Christ that is very much against reality.

And…yea I think Hollyweird has at least something to do with it. If you watch enough “Touched By an Angel” you can get confused f a s t.

330

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
And as for the propriety of context, i.e., there is a time and place to bring it up,along with recognition of the audience:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

That was the one I was thinking of but forgot where it was found. My dad used to make a point of this. As a preacher, he made it clear that while he would witness to anyone who asked, to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

If someone came into his church, sat down and began particpating, then used it as an opportunity to insult others there with whom his beliefs didn’t match, what would your dad have done?

Might he say: “Sir, the door of this church is unbolted. You were not forced to come in here and participate. You may leave if you don’t like this.” ?

I think your dad was probably a hell of a lot smarter than you.

You apparently are not too superior to throw insults when you weren’t provoked at all.

This is a public forum. The rules do not apply the same as they would someone’s house or their church. People of all types are here to discuss “Politics and World issues”. To expect them to not respond to a PUBLIC post on a board like this that, as Thunderbolt has pointed out, isn’t exactly all that “Christian” is a little insane.[/quote]

And some would say that for you to be on here with your senseless ranting is insane!

Especially given that this was the original post:

[quote]Christians have tremendous strength in face of adversity and in times of tribulation. Here’s a story to illustrate my point.

I was speaking to a client the other day, and I come to find out that her husband just passed away due to cancer. He was in his mid-50’s. It was a slow and painful process - very hard on the family emotionally and financially.

As if that isn’t enough, the woman tells me she lost her son a few years ago in a car accident. He was in his early twenties.

Yet, through it all, she finds comfort knowing that she will see them again in heaven. You see, she was from a strong Christian family that put God first, family second, and everything else last.

She is a wonderful example of Christian strength!

I don’t have any great power stories of my own - none like this anyway. So, I share her’s. What I wonder is, does anyone else have similar stories that show the strength and power that comes from Jesus Christ?[/quote]

Now tell me pox what exactly is so offensive about the above post that you have to continue to berate the original poster and all who agree with his original intent?

I’ll be waitig for your answer as I am sincerely interested.

331

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
harris447 wrote:
DPH wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
True Christians will follow Christ.

this statement seems ambiguous…

are you saying that accepting Jesus as your lord and savior is not enough to be a Christian?

a ‘true’ Christian doesn’t ever ‘mess up’ after accepting Jesus?

a ‘true’ Christian must also be as ‘Christ’ like as possible?

It’s not that it’s ambiguous, it’s that the statement is: A) a tautology; B) an example of the ‘True Scotsman’ fallacy; and, C) a faulty comparison. To wit–

A) “True Christians follow Christ” is a self-referential statement, otherwise known as a tautology. Other examples are “Boys will be boys”, and “I am what I am.” As these statements mean nothing without previous knowledge of the subject, they are essentially meaningless.

B) The true Scotsman fallacy goes as follows:

“All true Scotsman play golf.”
“But, what about Shamus? He’s from Scotland and he doesn’t golf.”
“Ah, then he must not be a true Scotsman.”

So, you see, this is a way to limit the range of the subject by applying a bullshit modifier that can be defined at will by the party making the argument.

C) Faulty comparison

This is one I scream at my students for. In the sentence written by Little Steve, true Christian, follow Christ the person. To the movies, the mall, etc. What Little Steve intended was "True Christians follow Christ’s [i] teachings[i].

So, students, we see that Steve has shown himself to be a self-righteous schmuck three times in four words.

Harris,

The tenor of your posts, the language you choose to use, and your ignorance of facts, concern me given the fact that you are supposedly teaching children.

That being said, the word “Christian” if you break it down, does, in fact, mean “follower of Messiah,” which in turn then means that one who calls himself “Christian” will follow the Messiah – i.e. Christ. See?

Now perhaps you will come back with something useful and intelligent – but I am not holding my breath!

Here are the words of Christ that you should really consider:

[b][i]

“?A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. ?But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. ?For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” Matthew 12:35-37
[/b][/i]

[/quote]

So, you really wrote “True followers of Christ follow Christ?”

That’s just moronic.

You should worry about me teaching children. Every kid that comes through my classroom leaves having been taught one thing above all others: Don’t accept other people’s horseshit.

Such as utterly retarded bible verses which DON’T MEAN ANYTHING.

What is the tenor of my posts? Irritation with your anti-intellectualism and sheep-like beliefs in silliness?

What about my language? If this god you seem to love so much invented language, he also invented the word ‘fuck’.

My ignornce of facts? I’m actually sitting here laughing at you. I live in a fact-based world. Whereas you think science is faith and Reagan was a good president and the bible can be proven true.

332

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
So here is the last Atomic Dog article, from the proprietors of this website:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=967425

This article includes discussion of sex, evolution, lust, and plastic surgery. I think a swear word may have even been used.

So, ‘true’ Christians - where was the righteous protest of the article? Where was the outspoken condemnation of such blatant sinful indulgences? What about the discussion of sexual evolution, all of which stands in contrast to the inerring belief of the ‘true’ Christian?

Not a peep.

Thunder,

You are stealing Profeesor X’s ‘thunder’! :slight_smile:

Its his job here to assign sins of ommission to us ignorant fools.

Get it right – Vroom is the censor, X is the high priest assigning sin, and harris is comic relief.
:slight_smile:
HH[/quote]

And you’re the troll who still, after being told time and time again that you’re a fucking idiot, thinks that libealism and fascism are the same thing.

333

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

I would agree with your dear old Dad.

But when someone starts a CHRISTIAN THREAD if it is invaded by atheists/agonstics (from the outset) then Christians should simply pack up and move on.

[/quote]

There is no need to pack up and move on. There is also no need to start SEVERAL threads on religion on this forum if it is clear that the message is not being accepted. That is what has been said from the beginning. This has nothing to do with not wanting to talk about God and everything to do with what that scriptures is talking about. How many more ways does this need to be explained before you get it? This is not about just this one thread but the actions by some claiming they are “True Christians” over the last few weeks.

334

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Now tell me pox what exactly is so offensive about the above post that you have to continue to berate the original poster and all who agree with his original intent?

I’ll be waitig for your answer as I am sincerely interested.
[/quote]

I just answered this in the above post. For the slow ones who need it repeated 15 times, this is not just about this one post. It is about how that scripture posted by Thunderbolt seems to be dismissed and ignored by the simple act of creating so many posts on this forum when all it seems to be doing is turning people AWAY from Christianity.

Again I ask you, WHO is being saved through your tactics? if it doing more harm than good, why do you think you are doing good by continuing? It makes no sense. Who is being converted by your actions? If the answer is “no one”, you are at fault of not listening to that scripture quoted.

335

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

This does not mean make continuous threads about religion to people who don’t seem to be interested until it upsets them and provokes them.

You aren’t counted as being “more Christian” by acting as if the simple act of talking about God is enough. It isn’t.

336

[quote]terribleivan wrote:

You continue to contort my answers. It is almost like you’ve had practice. I’ve re-sent a response for the third time - please read it. And, don’t misquote it :)[/quote]

Nope, I am applying your own strict standards to you. And you have come up short. You said yourself ‘true’ Christians have a duty to challenge iniquity the moment they confront it. You log on here every day and ignore the iniquity that this site promotes. You enjoy its benefits and never challenge the existence of the website. You can’t even achieve your own standard.

[quote]BTW - it is nice to see you back. We thought you were gone for good when you left 6 or 8 pages ago. But, we can’t keep a good fraud down! :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Amazing - me, a professed Christian who only expressed concern that this thread would not help the cause of Christianity - and no more than that - was labeled a fraud.

Rest assured I am a Christian, not because of your kind of evangelism, but in spite of it.

337

Sigh,

I know, it’s me speaking, so don’t bother to actually listen to what I am saying, just prejudge it and close your ears.

Religion, or more accurately, the words of Jesus were very very simple. Follow the commandments and love they neighbor. Consider the surroundings and conditions at the time and put the words into context.

Today, things have become insanely complex. Do you think Jesus was not speaking to the common simple man? Do you think it requires a scholar to decipher his message?

You who are making his simple teachings a complex mystery are not doing his work. Listen to his words, above the words of men, and see what he says. Other words are just opinions on his views.

It is so simple, yet in an effort to be compliant we twist and analyze and invent complexities that are not necessary. Nowhere did he say that it was necessary.

But, alas, it is only me speaking, so obviously I cannot have any knowledge in this matter. If it’s me saying it, it must be wrong.

338

[quote]vroom wrote:
I suggest that the entire debate on this thread has to do with one phrase that you quoted “living a righteous life.”

“Living.” thinking, acting, speaking.

Finally, a reasonably reply, thank you. I am amazed at how people will brush over what I write, simply because of who wrote it.

Zeb, I would suggest that in the context of the time that the message is given, that Jesus appeared most concerned with the fact that all the poor, old, sick and so on were just lying around the streets while the “rich” ignored them all and let them suffer and die.[/quote]

I think that’s certainly ONE of his points.

Yes, but again that was only part of his message.

Don’t forget Mark 7: 20 & 21:

hat comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. For from within, out of men’s hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

We can’t pick and choose exactly what WE find offensive as being what CHRIST clearly stated.

I agree, unless you call any of the above in Mark 7: 20 & 21 “enjoying life.”

Yes, but don’t totally disregard the scripture that actually calls Christians to “judge fairly” if you are going to judge.

Paul (and others in the Church) did this all the time. And in fact expelled some from church. Now that’s judgemental!

If you are a Christian you are in fact his representative. With that said, does that mean that whereever you go you are constantly preaching? No of course not. That would indeed have the opposite effect. But, to talke about God in a thread entitled “Power Of Christ” is not over doing it.

This thread (not speaking for others) was begun with the very best of intentions and did not deserve to be attacked!

This was the time and place and it was taken away. And that was wrong.

339

[quote]ZEB wrote:

This thread (not speaking for others) was begun with the very best of intentions and did not deserve to be attacked![/quote]

What you don’t seem to get is that this is imply your opinion. To me, it struck me as being completely against that scripture because it was clear before this thread was started that many were tired of being pelted by those who kept starting threads about religion. This is common sense. Are you truly saying you didn’t see this coming? You didn’t understand how others were feeling about it? I know I did which is why I was against it. I said it at the beginning of this thread and my response is the same. Either the person who started this thread is simply completely clueless as to what others around him think regardless of how they have responded in SEVERAL posts previously, or he simply didn’t care.

Either way, it goes against:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

340

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I never stated otherwise![/quote]

Yes, but your enjoyment is founded on the basis of non-Christian advocacy and material. How do you square that with your beliefs?

[quote]It could be for the same reason that I don’t stand out in front of porno shops with a sign. And the same reason that I don’t advocate violence against abortion clinics.

Christ called us to be “in” the world but not “of” the world. I think that we have to act with a good measure of maturity. If you look up at the title of this thread (go ahead take another look I think you forgot). You will see that it says “Power of Christ.”[/quote]

You are missing the point. ‘False’ Christians were chastised for not being vocal and condemning iniquity in every instance we encounter. I direct your attention to us ‘false’ Christians being complained of for not supporting this thread and standing with atheists, etc.

Yet you and the other ‘true’ Christians don’t condemn iniquity in every instance you see it - how could you if you are enjoying the fruits of this website, knowing full well what it promotes? And yet now we get the whole qualification that “we can’t condemn iniquity, like, everywhere”, which undermines the very distinction the ‘true’ Christians made to claim judgment over the status of ‘false’ Christians.

You built your house of judgment on sand, Zeb - don’t blame me when it slides away and exposes your self-contradiction.

I disagree - it would not have been more effective. No way anyone would think that this thread would not turn into a what it has become, based on the recent discussions about religion.

Surely you aren’t that naive? That was my original point - at this point, a thread like this would just regenerate the arguments of the recent past. And it has. I didn’t want to see it again, others happened to agree.

And you just can’t seem to make the connection - no one is saying you can’t start a thread like this, it has always been about whether or not you should start a thread like this, right now.

[quote]First of all, how do YOU know that I have not changed a few minds by involving myself in threads that are acceptable for Biblical discussion?

Is that a fair judgement you are making?[/quote]

Stay with me - I never said you haven’t. I also never said a post on Christianity on T-Nation was somehow always inappropriate. Far from it.

[quote]Also hypocrisy is an interesting word. I think you have crossed the line relative to its use here.

You rail against me because I do not speak out enough?[/quote]

Yes, by applying the same standard you have voiced for ‘false’ Christians.

[quote]One could easily throw that word back in your own direction. You have called yourself a Christian yet you have never once (to my knowledge) spoken out against obviously “anti Christian” rhetoric ON ANY THREAD!

Does that earn YOU the title of hypocrite?[/quote]

Wow. You miss the point - I never announced that I think that standard was right. It is not my standard. It is yours.

I do not think I should speak out against every iniquity encountered - I am not the one advocating this strict ‘true’ Christian business. So, Zeb, I can’t be a hypocrite. I am not creating a standard and then not living up to it myself.

Geez, use common sense, friend.

Slavery was an acceptable practice in the Bible. Following your version of inerrancy, why would I have any reason to think that slavery is bad? If the Bible accepts it, why should I reject it?

341

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

I would agree with your dear old Dad.

But when someone starts a CHRISTIAN THREAD if it is invaded by atheists/agonstics (from the outset) then Christians should simply pack up and move on.

There is no need to pack up and move on. There is also no need to start SEVERAL threads on religion on this forum if it is clear that the message is not being accepted. That is what has been said from the beginning. This has nothing to do with not wanting to talk about God and everything to do with what that scriptures is talking about. How many more ways does this need to be explained before you get it? This is not about just this one thread but the actions by some claiming they are “True Christians” over the last few weeks.[/quote]

professor,

I am talking about THIS THREAD! I have never begun a Christian thread. However, when one was started by the name “Power Of Christ” I was naturally interested.

When someone else begins a thread entitled “Tattoos” I am not interested. Therefore, I don’t enter the thread throwing stones at the original poster. If I did do that I would be roundly chastized by my fellow forum members, and they would be right!

If allowed to continue under its original intent this would have been a very inspiring faith building thread for those of us in the Christian faith who wanted to participate. It was never allowed to progress however.

How on earth can you or any of your cohorts justify kicking the door in and crapping all over this thread?

JUST BECAUSE SOME ARE TIRED OF YET ANOTHER CHRISTIAN THREAD?

Not good enough-And I know you are smart enough to realize this!