Power of Christ

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
302

[quote]Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
And as for the propriety of context, i.e., there is a time and place to bring it up,along with recognition of the audience:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

That was the one I was thinking of but forgot where it was found. My dad used to make a point of this. As a preacher, he made it clear that while he would witness to anyone who asked, to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.
[/quote]

If someone came into his church, sat down and began particpating, then used it as an opportunity to insult others there with whom his beliefs didn’t match, what would your dad have done?

Might he say: “Sir, the door of this church is unbolted. You were not forced to come in here and participate. You may leave if you don’t like this.” ?

I think your dad was probably a hell of a lot smarter than you.

303

[quote]harris447 wrote:

Please explain how me pointing out your miles and miles of posts about how gays are bad people just by dint of their existence is rooted in clear and obvious hatred. Whether you say differently or not, it’s just clear to everyone that you don’t like homosexuals.[/quote]

That you cannot comprehend the difference between me being against an “act” and not the “person” is not surprising given your history of clearly confusing very simple points. And you say you are a teacher…

Let me explain it to you on a different level. If one of my children did something that was wrong (Oh my I used the word wrong) I would attempt to point out what they did wrong and why it was wrong. That does not mean that I hate my child. In fact, the reason you point out wrong behavior is for correction and it’s done out of love, not hate.

Would your definition of “love” be allowing your child to do whatever pleases him?

If gay people are dying and suffering at a far higher rate than the general population and YOU encourage it who is it that hates them? Not me!

I have read the Bible several times and I am aware as to where YOU are coming from…and it’s not a good place.

And while you did get through the post without any profanity (not your usual style) you did not get through it without using your usual hate speech.

Keep trying.

304

[quote]vroom wrote:
I can’t believe I’m quoting scripture, what is the world coming to!!!

So, who would like to take a stab at reconciling the following with the fundamentalist views presented earlier in this thread?

Luke 10:25[i]
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.[/i]

Also, it would appear that children, who have obviously never even learned to read, much less had an opportunity to read anything approaching a bible, will be received:

Luke 18:15[i]
And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
[/i]
And again, in Luke, we see Jesus telling people how to comport themselves for an eternal afterlife:

Luke 18:18[i]
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
[/i]
Alternately, here we have James dealing with the need for works as well as faith. Basically, faith is not enough on it’s own. This doesn’t seem to sit well with fundamentalist posts above either.

James 2:10[i]
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.[/i]

Here we have Jesus talking about the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. How could little children even have enough religious knowledge to qualify according to the rules of the fundamentalists?

Matthew[i]
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
[/i]
So, with all that said, I would like to see a fundamentalist explain to me why living a righteous life, following the commandments, and loving your neighbor is not enough.

Jesus himself apparently said it was. If you wish to claim Jesus was mistaken, I would suggest that the bible certainly contains inconsistencies.[/quote]

vroom,

Wow you quoted plenty of scripture there man.

Good Job!

I suggest that the entire debate on this thread has to do with one phrase that you quoted “living a righteous life.”

“Living.” thinking, acting, speaking.

305

[quote]ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Please explain how me pointing out your miles and miles of posts about how gays are bad people just by dint of their existence is rooted in clear and obvious hatred. Whether you say differently or not, it’s just clear to everyone that you don’t like homosexuals.

That you cannot comprehend the difference between me being against an “act” and not the “person” is not surprising given your history of clearly confusing very simple points. And you say you are a teacher…

Let me explain it to you on a different level. If one of my children did something that was wrong (Oh my I used the word wrong) I would attempt to point out what they did wrong and why it was wrong. That does not mean that I hate my child. In fact, the reason you point out wrong behavior is for correction and it’s done out of love, not hate.

Would your definition of “love” be allowing your child to do whatever pleases him?

If gay people are dying and suffering at a far higher rate than the general population and YOU encourage it who is it that hates them? Not me!

Perhaps if you read your bible instead of thumping it, you might be able to figure stff out on your own without me having to correct your every witless post. Oh, wait…I just went an entire post without using “bad” language.

I have read the Bible several times and I am aware as to where YOU are coming from…and it’s not a good place.

And while you did get through the post without any profanity (not your usual style) you did not get through it without using your usual hate speech.

Keep trying.

[/quote]

Zeb, I think these guys believe that a ‘True Christian’ is someone who sits meekly in a corner, waiting for someone else to come and pat him on the head. A Christian who speaks up is a shock to them. They then somehow call the Christian who speaks up ‘arrogant’ for speaking!

Wonder who taught them that a Christian should be a meek little schmoo? Could it be the mainstream media? Why would they ever do such a thing??

306

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
And as for the propriety of context, i.e., there is a time and place to bring it up,along with recognition of the audience:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

That was the one I was thinking of but forgot where it was found. My dad used to make a point of this. As a preacher, he made it clear that while he would witness to anyone who asked, to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

If someone came into his church, sat down and began particpating, then used it as an opportunity to insult others there with whom his beliefs didn’t match, what would your dad have done?

Might he say: “Sir, the door of this church is unbolted. You were not forced to come in here and participate. You may leave if you don’t like this.” ?

I think your dad was probably a hell of a lot smarter than you.

[/quote]

You apparently are not too superior to throw insults when you weren’t provoked at all.

This is a public forum. The rules do not apply the same as they would someone’s house or their church. People of all types are here to discuss “Politics and World issues”. To expect them to not respond to a PUBLIC post on a board like this that, as Thunderbolt has pointed out, isn’t exactly all that “Christian” is a little insane.

307

[quote]I suggest that the entire debate on this thread has to do with one phrase that you quoted “living a righteous life.”

“Living.” thinking, acting, speaking. [/quote]

Finally, a reasonably reply, thank you. I am amazed at how people will brush over what I write, simply because of who wrote it.

Zeb, I would suggest that in the context of the time that the message is given, that Jesus appeared most concerned with the fact that all the poor, old, sick and so on were just lying around the streets while the “rich” ignored them all and let them suffer and die.

His message appeared to be, follow the rules – don’t break the commandments, and love they neighbor, don’t let him die on the street as you walk by unconcerned.

I, at this point, don’t see him as preaching against enjoying life, saying things only in certain ways, or otherwise restricting us, except as within the rules he states. Though he does explicitly warn that acquiring wealth while letting others suffer is going to be a no-no.

There are lots of “confusing” comments, such as show mercy and you will be shown mercy, judge and you shall be judged". Currently, I see these as a description of acts. Be merciful. Be not judgmental (as that is reserved for another).

Yes, you can see and tell who may or may not appear righteous, it will be one that breaks the commandments or ignores the poor, sick, old and lonely. The minor crap often focused on today are just issues that man has piled up on his own in order to be “careful” that he is getting it right. The message of Jesus was both simple and plain.

I see those extra “extensions” as steps taken by those that want to “appear” righteous, perhaps to other men, but that is immaterial. It doesn’t matter what other men think, and avoiding thoughts or phrases won’t change the belief in your mind or the actions you actually do take towards those around you.

Neither did I see him charge “everyone” with being his representative here on Earth. He charged his closest disciples to continue to spread his message. However, many take it upon themselves to attempt this work at all times, to the annoyance of others, as if they were in some asked to do it, becuase it elevates themselves.

Though I don’t have the reference, Jesus also suggested that the humble man, who simply hopes to be heard and forgiven, is more apt to be heard when he prays than the one who recounts the ways he has been pious and deserving of God’s ear.

I see a lot of twaddles in these parts announcing themselves as “true” Christians and acting as if they have some type of special dispensation on how life is to be lived.

The fact they drive people away from the actual message of Christ should scare the living crap out of them.

End rant.

308

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
So here is the last Atomic Dog article, from the proprietors of this website:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=967425

This article includes discussion of sex, evolution, lust, and plastic surgery. I think a swear word may have even been used.

So, ‘true’ Christians - where was the righteous protest of the article? Where was the outspoken condemnation of such blatant sinful indulgences? What about the discussion of sexual evolution, all of which stands in contrast to the inerring belief of the ‘true’ Christian?

Not a peep.

Yet, here, we are entreated to smug complaints that we don’t speak up and condemn sinful behavior, that we tacitly accept ‘atheists’ point of view because of our interpreted silence.

The self-professed ‘true’ Christians here log on to T-Nation surrounded by this stuff daily, and yet none of them chimed in the most recent Atomic Dog to chastise TC for not being a ‘true’ Christian. Nor do they act with the kind of consistency they demand in this thread - but they profess a standard that any ‘true’ Christian must speak out whenever confronted with inquity.

Even our proud ‘true’ Christians don’t live up to the standards they stridently condemn the rest of us for not displaying - and I can’t think of a worse example of Christian behavior.[/quote]

Why do the avoid responding to this?

309

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
And as for the propriety of context, i.e., there is a time and place to bring it up,along with recognition of the audience:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

That was the one I was thinking of but forgot where it was found. My dad used to make a point of this. As a preacher, he made it clear that while he would witness to anyone who asked, to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

If someone came into his church, sat down and began particpating, then used it as an opportunity to insult others there with whom his beliefs didn’t match, what would your dad have done?

Might he say: “Sir, the door of this church is unbolted. You were not forced to come in here and participate. You may leave if you don’t like this.” ?

I think your dad was probably a hell of a lot smarter than you.

You apparently are not too superior to throw insults when you weren’t provoked at all.

This is a public forum. The rules do not apply the same as they would someone’s house or their church. People of all types are here to discuss “Politics and World issues”. To expect them to not respond to a PUBLIC post on a board like this that, as Thunderbolt has pointed out, isn’t exactly all that “Christian” is a little insane.[/quote]

I would assume that anyone could come into your dad’s church. Aren’t all people welcome in the house of God? If they began to insult the other members of the congregation, wouldn’t your dad respond as I wrote? If someone came in and said “You are not true Christians!”, what would your dad do?

310

[quote]DPH wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
As always, if I’ve done something unbiblical, please let me know. And, please provide scripture as evidence (please keep it in context).

Thanks :slight_smile:

unbiblical…perhaps…

have you acted like a complete fucking dick…without a doubt![/quote]

Did you say you read the NIV from cover to cover?

311

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:

Please explain how me pointing out your miles and miles of posts about how gays are bad people just by dint of their existence is rooted in clear and obvious hatred. Whether you say differently or not, it’s just clear to everyone that you don’t like homosexuals.

That you cannot comprehend the difference between me being against an “act” and not the “person” is not surprising given your history of clearly confusing very simple points. And you say you are a teacher…

Let me explain it to you on a different level. If one of my children did something that was wrong (Oh my I used the word wrong) I would attempt to point out what they did wrong and why it was wrong. That does not mean that I hate my child. In fact, the reason you point out wrong behavior is for correction and it’s done out of love, not hate.

Would your definition of “love” be allowing your child to do whatever pleases him?

If gay people are dying and suffering at a far higher rate than the general population and YOU encourage it who is it that hates them? Not me!

Perhaps if you read your bible instead of thumping it, you might be able to figure stff out on your own without me having to correct your every witless post. Oh, wait…I just went an entire post without using “bad” language.

I have read the Bible several times and I am aware as to where YOU are coming from…and it’s not a good place.

And while you did get through the post without any profanity (not your usual style) you did not get through it without using your usual hate speech.

Keep trying.

Zeb, I think these guys believe that a ‘True Christian’ is someone who sits meekly in a corner, waiting for someone else to come and pat him on the head. A Christian who speaks up is a shock to them. They then somehow call the Christian who speaks up ‘arrogant’ for speaking!

Wonder who taught them that a Christian should be a meek little schmoo? Could it be the mainstream media? Why would they ever do such a thing??

[/quote]

I don’t think that is the case. I have yet to sit by when I thought something should be said regarding Christ, and what we believe. I have had more than one discussion with pookie and others over different Christian issues. At first I think both sides came in very defensive. Since then I can honestly say when I talk to them I think both sides are learning something.

I will state that this was true even when a year ago I was considered a fundamentalist in my interpretation of the Bible.

312

[quote]Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
So here is the last Atomic Dog article, from the proprietors of this website:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=967425

This article includes discussion of sex, evolution, lust, and plastic surgery. I think a swear word may have even been used.

So, ‘true’ Christians - where was the righteous protest of the article? Where was the outspoken condemnation of such blatant sinful indulgences? What about the discussion of sexual evolution, all of which stands in contrast to the inerring belief of the ‘true’ Christian?

Not a peep.

Yet, here, we are entreated to smug complaints that we don’t speak up and condemn sinful behavior, that we tacitly accept ‘atheists’ point of view because of our interpreted silence.

The self-professed ‘true’ Christians here log on to T-Nation surrounded by this stuff daily, and yet none of them chimed in the most recent Atomic Dog to chastise TC for not being a ‘true’ Christian. Nor do they act with the kind of consistency they demand in this thread - but they profess a standard that any ‘true’ Christian must speak out whenever confronted with inquity.

Even our proud ‘true’ Christians don’t live up to the standards they stridently condemn the rest of us for not displaying - and I can’t think of a worse example of Christian behavior.

Why do the avoid responding to this?
[/quote]

See my previous post, about Thunder, stealing your ‘thunder’.

313

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
And as for the propriety of context, i.e., there is a time and place to bring it up,along with recognition of the audience:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

-from the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:06

That was the one I was thinking of but forgot where it was found. My dad used to make a point of this. As a preacher, he made it clear that while he would witness to anyone who asked, to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

If someone came into his church, sat down and began particpating, then used it as an opportunity to insult others there with whom his beliefs didn’t match, what would your dad have done?

Might he say: “Sir, the door of this church is unbolted. You were not forced to come in here and participate. You may leave if you don’t like this.” ?

I think your dad was probably a hell of a lot smarter than you.

You apparently are not too superior to throw insults when you weren’t provoked at all.

This is a public forum. The rules do not apply the same as they would someone’s house or their church. People of all types are here to discuss “Politics and World issues”. To expect them to not respond to a PUBLIC post on a board like this that, as Thunderbolt has pointed out, isn’t exactly all that “Christian” is a little insane.[/quote]

You’ve called me a liar and a fraud, for wanting to pray for a guy. Not provoked at all? LMAO!!

314

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
Does your wife visit the sex forum with you?

What a fool you are.

Vroom – calling names again? Tisk tisk…

How many ways can you devise to feel better about yourself, your degree of piety, by looking for flaws in the behavior of others.

Vroom, assuming another motives again? Tisk tisk…

Is that what it means to be a “true” Christian?

You are lost.

Vroom, judging others again? Tisk tisk…

Your question shows how desperate you are to villify people that don’t believe exactly the same thing you do. Your question implies a married couple should not be visiting the sex forum.

Vroom, misrepresenting another’s position again? Tisk tisk…

His point was that someone who claims to be a true Christian, should know that the Bible is clear on staying away from “all apperance of evil,” and the dangers of the “lust of the flesh.” He was pointing out Prof. X’s inconsistency!

I am sure all of your many obvious failings must really weigh on your soul ivan, but to try to make yourself feel better by finding failings in others is the wrong road.

There is one requirement, by your own words, the rest is just a way to allow you to feel pride for your devoutness.

You are lost.

Vroom, assuming motives, calling names, judging others…

…wait, haven’t you written over and over again against such things. Again, I point out to you Vroom you are not consistent with your words and your actions. You should practice what YOU PREACH.
[/quote]

I have lumped vroom into the category of harris. I barely even read his posts anymore. But, sometimes I need the laugh.

315

[quote]Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
So here is the last Atomic Dog article, from the proprietors of this website:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=967425

This article includes discussion of sex, evolution, lust, and plastic surgery. I think a swear word may have even been used.

So, ‘true’ Christians - where was the righteous protest of the article? Where was the outspoken condemnation of such blatant sinful indulgences? What about the discussion of sexual evolution, all of which stands in contrast to the inerring belief of the ‘true’ Christian?

Not a peep.

Yet, here, we are entreated to smug complaints that we don’t speak up and condemn sinful behavior, that we tacitly accept ‘atheists’ point of view because of our interpreted silence.

The self-professed ‘true’ Christians here log on to T-Nation surrounded by this stuff daily, and yet none of them chimed in the most recent Atomic Dog to chastise TC for not being a ‘true’ Christian. Nor do they act with the kind of consistency they demand in this thread - but they profess a standard that any ‘true’ Christian must speak out whenever confronted with inquity.

Even our proud ‘true’ Christians don’t live up to the standards they stridently condemn the rest of us for not displaying - and I can’t think of a worse example of Christian behavior.

Why do the avoid responding to this?
[/quote]

What is it that you would like to know?

It may surprise you, but some of us have more to do with our time than to police T-Nation. In fact, the articles you speak of are not even ones I’m aware of - I guess that’s what I get for being a Christian who doesn’t visit the sex forum.

Incidently, thunderbolt has again taken things out of context. I doubt the words Christian or Christianity even came up in the articles he was reading. The fact that you and he are enticed by those articles speaks volumes about your faith (or lack thereof).

316

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I would assume that anyone could come into your dad’s church. Aren’t all people welcome in the house of God? If they began to insult the other members of the congregation, wouldn’t your dad respond as I wrote? If someone came in and said “You are not true Christians!”, what would your dad do?[/quote]

This is not a church. This is a public internet forum on a bodybuilding discussion forum with the subtitle of “Politics and World Issues”. Anyone can come here without believing in God which makes this a strange place to expect people who don’t believe in God to avoid responding.

317

[quote]terribleivan wrote:

What is it that you would like to know?

It may surprise you, but some of us have more to do with our time than to police T-Nation. In fact, the articles you speak of are not even ones I’m aware of - I guess that’s what I get for being a Christian who doesn’t visit the sex forum.

Incidently, thunderbolt has again taken things out of context. I doubt the words Christian or Christianity even came up in the articles he was reading. The fact that you and he are enticed by those articles speaks volumes about your faith (or lack thereof).
[/quote]

Wait, so you aren’t here to witness to all of the people on this forum, you are just here to tell other Christians that they aren’t Christian enough?

318

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
What is it that you would like to know?

It may surprise you, but some of us have more to do with our time than to police T-Nation. In fact, the articles you speak of are not even ones I’m aware of - I guess that’s what I get for being a Christian who doesn’t visit the sex forum.[/quote]

No, no, no - you said ‘true’ Christians are measured by their willingness to condemn iniquity no matter where and how they see it, and to be silent when faced with iniquity is to forfeit your status as a ‘true’ Christian.

And your wimpy deflections are unimpressive - you cannot pretend to claim such willful ignorance on the contents of this site.

A fantastically pathetic non-answer. Anyone else want to step up to the plate?

319

THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I?VE POSTED THIS. IT ANSWERS MANY QUESTIONS AND CONDEMNATIONS.

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY ? I HAVE INCLUDED EMPHASIS THIS TIME FOR EASY READING.

True Christians accept the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as payment for our sins. We do not add requirements to this, and we do not take requirements from this. It is this faith in Christ alone that separates the true Christian believer from the person who is a Christian in name alone.

Christianity is not synonymous with perfection. Christians and non-Christians (or false Christians) alike sin. However, true Christians differ in that they make a good faith attempt to avoid the sin nature. Why is this? Because Christ lives in the true Christian, and with Christ in you, it grieves your soul to act in such an ill-found manner.

True Christians subject themselves to a higher power - God. They believe that God has given us his Word in the Bible, and they allow the Bible to govern and correct their actions. False Christians and non-Christians ignore or misrepresent the Bible.

To put this in context in the thread - I see false Christians who spew forth perversion like a fountain. I’ll focus on the acts of one individual, without naming names of course.

FALSE CHRISTIAN/NON-CHRISTIAN - This individual uses constant cursing and abusive language to get his point across. He can be seen on threads telling homosexuals that it is OK to have gay sex, making perverted jokes, and joining in the blaspheming of Jesus Christ. I have never heard this individual speak the Gospel of Salvation even once. Yet, this individual is quick to tell Christians to shut the **** up.

FALSE CHRISTIAN/NON-CHRISTIAN - This individual is a fraud. Behavior like that mentioned above shows that he in no may accepts the Bible as God’s word or as his governing authority. He cannot show anyone the path to God because he does not know it. He has placed a wall of pride between himself and God, and until he allows that wall to come down, he will always remain a false-Christian and a hypocrite.

PLEASE READ THIS LINE CLOSELY - I hope this distinction helps. I am no better than anyone else here. And, I am no worse. In God’s eyes, my greatest works are still but filthy rags - just like everyone else’s.

320

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
What is it that you would like to know?

It may surprise you, but some of us have more to do with our time than to police T-Nation. In fact, the articles you speak of are not even ones I’m aware of - I guess that’s what I get for being a Christian who doesn’t visit the sex forum.

No, no, no - you said ‘true’ Christians are measured by their willingness to condemn iniquity no matter where and how they see it, and to be silent when faced with iniquity is to forfeit your status as a ‘true’ Christian.

And your wimpy deflections are unimpressive - you cannot pretend to claim such willful ignorance on the contents of this site.

A fantastically pathetic non-answer. Anyone else want to step up to the plate?[/quote]

You continue to contort my answers. It is almost like you’ve had practice. I’ve re-sent a response for the third time - please read it. And, don’t misquote it :slight_smile:

BTW - it is nice to see you back. We thought you were gone for good when you left 6 or 8 pages ago. But, we can’t keep a good fraud down! :slight_smile:

321

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:

If you are looking for Biblical precedent you only need to look at Jesus Christ himself who spent his time with the worst sinners of the day.

Well and good, but that is the only reason you come here to T-Nation? To bring the message of Christianity to the unknowing? I don’t believe that for one second. You don’t come here to labor under the mission of Christ exclusively - you enjoy all sorts of benefits this site provides.[/quote]

I never stated otherwise!

It could be for the same reason that I don’t stand out in front of porno shops with a sign. And the same reason that I don’t advocate violence against abortion clinics.

Christ called us to be “in” the world but not “of” the world. I think that we have to act with a good measure of maturity. If you look up at the title of this thread (go ahead take another look I think you forgot). You will see that it says “Power of Christ.”

Speaking of the Bible on this thread is appropriate and is also beneficial to all who may stop by and read it. If it had gotten off to it’s original intent without others rudely interupting at the very outset, it would have been far more beneficial.

First of all, how do YOU know that I have not changed a few minds by involving myself in threads that are acceptable for Biblical discussion?

Is that a fair judgement you are making?

Also hypocrisy is an interesting word. I think you have crossed the line relative to its use here.

You rail against me because I do not speak out enough?

One could easily throw that word back in your own direction. You have called yourself a Christian yet you have never once (to my knowledge) spoken out against obviously “anti Christian” rhetoric ON ANY THREAD!

Does that earn YOU the title of hypocrite?

Ah, a page out of pookies book. “We shall know them by the company they keep.”

Should I remind you as to WHY Jesus Christ entered the world? No, I better not do that as I might be called arrogant by an ally of yours.

Hmm…Okay…how about this approach.

Well, while I know that we can all disagree and of course none of us is ever really wrong, I will share my view on this particular issue.

May I share that view with you?

Okay I will:

Paul did encourage slaves to gain their freedom:

1Corinthians 7:21, 22:

“Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you-although if you can gain your freedom do so.
For he who ws a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s feedman…”

But of course that was not his real mission as you know.

Jesus Christ came not to free slaves, or to end corrupt kingdoms, while he could have done both and more.

(Maybe you can ask him why he didn’t heal ALL the blind while he was here)

His message was far greater: he came to free us of our sin!

I hope I didn’t offend anyone with that.