[quote]vroom wrote:
I can’t believe I’m quoting scripture, what is the world coming to!!!
So, who would like to take a stab at reconciling the following with the fundamentalist views presented earlier in this thread?
Luke 10:25[i]
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.[/i]
Also, it would appear that children, who have obviously never even learned to read, much less had an opportunity to read anything approaching a bible, will be received:
Luke 18:15[i]
And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
[/i]
And again, in Luke, we see Jesus telling people how to comport themselves for an eternal afterlife:
Luke 18:18[i]
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
[/i]
Alternately, here we have James dealing with the need for works as well as faith. Basically, faith is not enough on it’s own. This doesn’t seem to sit well with fundamentalist posts above either.
James 2:10[i]
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.[/i]
Here we have Jesus talking about the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. How could little children even have enough religious knowledge to qualify according to the rules of the fundamentalists?
Matthew[i]
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
[/i]
So, with all that said, I would like to see a fundamentalist explain to me why living a righteous life, following the commandments, and loving your neighbor is not enough.
Jesus himself apparently said it was. If you wish to claim Jesus was mistaken, I would suggest that the bible certainly contains inconsistencies.[/quote]
Vroom,
Good try and I like the use of Scripture, but you didn’t finish the story, because there is another rendition of this story in the Gospel of Luke 18:22-24…
?And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? ?And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. ?Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21?And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. ?Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23?And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 24?And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Let me point out a couple of things:
(1) The young man wanted to “inherit” eternal life. It cannot be bought or inherited from anyone.
(2) The commandments were no problem for this pious Jewish man – he kept all of them he said from the time he was a teenager or a young boy.
(3) The young man’s question – “what lacketh I yet?” – shows that realized himself that there was something missing from his “religious experience” that couldn’t be fulfilled form keeping the commandments.
(4) Jesus requires us to take a step of faith – in the case of this rich young man, it was to sell all the things he had and give it to the poor. The reason for this is that the young man was trusting his possessions and riches, instead of trusting God. In fact, I would go a step further, his having such great riches, actually in a way prevented him from coming to Jesus, even though he left “sorrowful.”
So, keeping God’s Law – which is impossible – is not enough. Doing your best is not enough. Faith in Christ is what you need to do.
