Powderkeg

Discuss among yourselves. I’d say this says some interesting things about the racial attitudes in Mexican society…

I also find it interesting that we’re always so interested in hyperexamining the smallest indications that things aren’t perfect vis a vis racial relations in western societies, and the U.S. in particular, while in my experience the racial attitudes – and the violence that flows from them, including genocide – are all too real problems in “Third World” countries.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0505170042may17,1,5525673.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Mexico’s Fox sorry for race remarks
President expresses regret in talks with Jackson, Sharpton

By Traci Carl
Associated Press
Published May 17, 2005

MEXICO CITY – President Vicente Fox reversed course Monday and apologized for saying that Mexicans in the United States do the work that blacks won’t.

Despite growing criticism that included a stern U.S. response, Fox had refused repeatedly to back away from the comment he made Friday, saying his remark had been misinterpreted.

But in phone conversations with Jesse Jackson Sr. and Al Sharpton, Fox said he “regretted” the statement.

“The president regretted any hurt feelings his statements may have caused,” the Foreign Relations Department said in a written statement. “He expressed the great respect he and his administration [have] for the African-American community in the United States.”

Jackson told Fox that he was sure Fox had no racist intent, and suggested the two men meet to discuss joint strategies between blacks and immigrant groups in the United States, Fox spokesman Ruben Aguilar said.

Fox agreed to set up a visit to Mexico by Jackson, Sharpton and a group of American black leaders.

Many Mexicans hadn’t considered Fox’s remark Friday offensive.

Blackface comedy is considered funny here, and many people hand out nicknames based on skin color.

“The president was just telling the truth,” said Celedonio Gonzalez, a 35-year-old carpenter who worked illegally in Dallas for six months in 2001. “Mexicans go to the United States because they have to. Blacks want to earn better wages, and the Mexican–because he is illegal–takes what they pay him.”

But Lisa Catanzarite, a sociologist at Washington State University, disputed Fox’s assertion. She said there is intense competition for lucrative working-class jobs like construction and that employers usually prefer to hire immigrants who don’t know their rights.

“What Vicente Fox called a willingness to work … translates into extreme exploitability,” she said.

Fox made the comment at an appearance in Puerto Vallarta: “There’s no doubt that Mexican men and women–full of dignity, willpower and a capacity for work–are doing the work that not even blacks want to do in the United States.”

The issue reflected Fox’s growing frustration with U.S. immigration policy.

Even Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera, the archbishop of Mexico City, had defended Fox’s comments: “The declaration had nothing to do with racism. It is a reality in the United States that anyone can prove.”

Earlier, Fox’s spokesman said Fox’s comments were in defense of Mexican migrants as they come under attack by new U.S. immigration measures that include a wall along the Mexico-California border, and were not meant to offend anybody.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City had raised the issue with the Mexican government.

While Mexico has a few, isolated black communities, the population is dominated by the country’s native Indians and descendants of its Spanish colonizers. Comments that generally would be considered openly racist in the United States generate little attention here.

One afternoon television program regularly features a comedian in blackface chasing actresses in skimpy outfits while an advertisement for a small, chocolate pastry called the “negrito”–or little black man–shows a white boy sprouting an afro as he eats the sweet.

Victor Hugo Flores, a 30-year-old bond salesman, cringed when asked what he thought of Fox’s Friday comment, but said it isn’t too different from popular sayings celebrating what Mexicans see as a strong work ethic among blacks.

“It was bad, but it really isn’t racist,” he said. “Maybe the president shouldn’t have said it. But here we say things like, `He works like a black person,’ and it’s normal.”

Time to cut off all relations with Mexico. Or we could just let the diplomatic corps deal with this one.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Time to cut off all relations with Mexico. Or we could just let the diplomatic corps deal with this one.
[/quote]

Oh, I wouldn’t want anything of the sort. The diplomats should handle it, to the extent handling is needed.

But can you imagine the sort of reaction that would have occurred had Tony Blair or George Bush made a similar remark?

Or maybe I’m over-reacting because I’ve been reading too much about Sudan lately…

Point taken. It’s a flaw that we can almost “accept” it becasue the leader is from Mexico.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
But can you imagine the sort of reaction that would have occurred had Tony Blair or George Bush made a similar remark?
[/quote]

I thought the same thing, especially in light of the comments made after the fact by Rev. Jesse Jackson. They just seemed… so… I duno… mild by comparison to any kind of treatment that Bush or Blair would receive.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050518/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_fox_blacks

Part of me feels that can almost be seen as discriminatory in and of itself. Leaders in “Third World” countries get a pass on racially insensitive remarks somehow? Why, because they are somehow inferior to 1st World leaders who should know better? Hell, Fox was educated in the United States. While no one is coming out and saying any of this directly, I can’t help but feel there is an odd, patronizing insinuation along these lines. “No, no… it’s OK President Fox… you just didn’t know any better, but we can teach you.”

Hold everyone to the same standards, period.

Kuz

Fox is a reflection of his society. Nothing more. Racism is more widely accepted and tolerated around the world then it is here. Unfortunate but true. Unless you have something to trade, buy or sell, you are not usually welcomed in most countries if you are different.

It’s not just racism against blacks. It’s racism against people who don’t look like you. I am talking about being not black in certain countries or not being hispanic in others, or being Persian in an Arab country or Arab in a persian country.

Tolerance of race, religion etc. is a luxury enjoyed almost exclusively by those who have a developed economy and social structure. If you are constantly looking for your next meal and trying to stay out of the way of the military junta in charge, your tolerance of others is not something you have time to think about.

[quote]Kuz wrote:

Part of me feels that can almost be seen as discriminatory in and of itself. Leaders in “Third World” countries get a pass on racially insensitive remarks somehow? Why, because they are somehow inferior to 1st World leaders who should know better? Hell, Fox was educated in the United States. While no one is coming out and saying any of this directly, I can’t help but feel there is an odd, patronizing insinuation along these lines. “No, no… it’s OK President Fox… you just didn’t know any better, but we can teach you.”

Hold everyone to the same standards, period.

Kuz[/quote]

Exactly.

[quote]Kuz wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
But can you imagine the sort of reaction that would have occurred had Tony Blair or George Bush made a similar remark?

I thought the same thing, especially in light of the comments made after the fact by Rev. Jesse Jackson. They just seemed… so… I duno… mild by comparison to any kind of treatment that Bush or Blair would receive.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050518/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_fox_blacks

Part of me feels that can almost be seen as discriminatory in and of itself. Leaders in “Third World” countries get a pass on racially insensitive remarks somehow? Why, because they are somehow inferior to 1st World leaders who should know better? Hell, Fox was educated in the United States. While no one is coming out and saying any of this directly, I can’t help but feel there is an odd, patronizing insinuation along these lines. “No, no… it’s OK President Fox… you just didn’t know any better, but we can teach you.”

Hold everyone to the same standards, period.

Kuz[/quote]

I don’t see anyone taking that attitude. At its simplest manifestation, it is as simple as the people in this country being more concerned with the leaders of this country than random comments from some other country. We all know that racism is all over the world as well as other forms of discrimination. It was never anyone’s goal until this war to change the entire world into thinking just like us. I am not sure what response you expected…a riot? Based on Mexico? Most of us in this country have never even been to Mexico so why would we care about another country’s views the same way we care about the views of those in power in THIS country?

Your assumption is the same as me getting called a name while driving on the freeway as opposed to getting called a name at work. Which do you think I would put the most effort into fighting?

I’m surprised the mainstream media even covered the story.