[quote]MODOK wrote:
You guys should really post alerts when we are switching trends. I can’t keep up.
2000- Post WO carbs+protein = awesomeness… Insulin spike = GOD
2003= pre AND post WO fast-acting carbs = incredibleness
2005= pre peri post workout fast-acting carbs and protein = bestest thing ever
2006= High molecular weight carbs pre peri post wo + the shit MUCH HIGHER INSULIN SPIKE… Fast-acting dextrose/ malto blend is for pussies
2007= High molecular weight carbs + protein = muscle orgasm EVEN HIGHER INSULIN SURGE!!!
2009= oligodextrins are insane! Fuck the insulin spike Slow releasing carbs give is wood now
2010= Fuck the insulin spike! Its worthless! Give me straight ass protein PWO…its leds to the ultimate spontufical gains! Fuck the carbs! Well, maybe a little pre-workout. Just oligos though![/quote]
I lol’d
[quote]MODOK wrote:
I think I’ll keep eating my tuna sandwich pwo while ya’ll figure this out.[/quote]
Dude. Grains? Seriously? You need to get the shit out of your attitude and diet, bro.
Can I please get an answer. I have removed the juice post-workout. I am having gatorade during my workout. What am I eating for carbs post-workout? Remember this is directly after my workout with a protein shake. An hour later I have a complete meal.
[quote]greenhopper wrote:
Can I please get an answer. I have removed the juice post-workout. I am having gatorade during my workout. What am I eating for carbs post-workout? Remember this is directly after my workout with a protein shake. An hour later I have a complete meal.[/quote]
[quote]greenhopper wrote:
Can I please get an answer. I have removed the juice post-workout. I am having gatorade during my workout. What am I eating for carbs post-workout? Remember this is directly after my workout with a protein shake. An hour later I have a complete meal.[/quote]
You tell us, what are you eating for carbs post-workout?
It’s obvious that missed the point of most of the posts in this thread.
If it were me, I’d pick something that I liked to eat that fit within the nutritional strategy I was following. If I were unsure of which strategy to follow, I’d experiment by following different eating plans until I found one that seemed to be the best fit for my objectives at the time.
I’ll give you this, I must say. Got caught up in the rest.
Back to sucrose.
I’ll try and regurgitate it the way my professor explained it, very simply. The liver holds about 100g glycogen in it at any given time. This is filled up mostly from carbs, but proteins add to the pool too. Depending on the individuals metabolic/hormone state having a total of 100g carbs/proteins (9:1 ratio or higher typically) will fill that up even if it was depleted (training/sleep).
The extra caloric intake of AAs and carbs will lead to a spill over for the body to deal with. B/c fructose gives such a low insulin response a lot of the fructose will be utilized as a backbone for blood triglycerides instead of going through normal bodily functions as most carbs do from an insulin increase/spike.
Sorry fellas, gotta try and defend my education you know? Shits expensive, I’d hope my ass is getting the right info.
Contradictions/misconceptions on my part/other (constructive) comments and criticism are welcome, I’m tired, there’s too many of you fuckers to question me anyway…
I’ll give you this, I must say. Got caught up in the rest.
Back to sucrose.
I’ll try and regurgitate it the way my professor explained it, very simply. The liver holds about 100g glycogen in it at any given time. This is filled up mostly from carbs, but proteins add to the pool too. Depending on the individuals metabolic/hormone state having a total of 100g carbs/proteins (9:1 ratio or higher typically) will fill that up even if it was depleted (training/sleep).
The extra caloric intake of AAs and carbs will lead to a spill over for the body to deal with. B/c fructose gives such a low insulin response a lot of the fructose will be utilized as a backbone for blood triglycerides instead of going through normal bodily functions as most carbs do from an insulin increase/spike.
Sorry fellas, gotta try and defend my education you know? Shits expensive, I’d hope my ass is getting the right info.
Contradictions/misconceptions on my part/other (constructive) comments and criticism are welcome, I’m tired, there’s too many of you fuckers to question me anyway…[/quote]
Couple of things:
So the liver holds glycogen, some of which is protein? Want to try again?
You do realize that sucrose is 50% glucose and 50% fructose, right?
You still haven’t explained how 20-35g of fructose per day is harmful since the “evidence” you have presented applies only to pure fructose fed as the sole energy source. Find me a single study where humans fed moderate amounts of fructose get sick and I’ll change my tune.
Currently I’m trying out carb backloading, as although I got decent results front loading carbs, I didn’t like the feeling of fullness during training, as well as timing sometimes being an issue. Currently I’m doing no carbs before workout, peri workout I drink half a liter of grape juice with two scoops of vanilla whey mixed in (80 grams of carbs, roughly 50/50 between glucose and fructose), and whole foods (protein+carbs) post workout. Whole foods isn’t really an option during the workout, so is grape juice a decent carb source, or is there anything else you guys would recommend as a better peri-workout carb source (ie less fructose), other than supplements such as WMS or vitargo (supplements are expensive as fuck over here so I’m limited to whey and creatine)?
PS. Sorry for attempting thread hijack, although I have a feeling my question relates more closely to the OP’s question than Maurice’s “fructose will kill you, your family and everyone you love” argument
… Find me a single study where humans fed moderate amounts of fructose get sick and I’ll change my tune.[/quote]
"an increased fructose intake of >/=74 g/d "
Way to edit out where I specifically said “20-35g daily”. In order to consume 75g of fructose from Gatorade, the OP would have to consume around 2.5 liters of it. Your article is also a cross-sectional analysis based on self report data (people tend to underreport food intake and overreport activity levels) with little concession made for physical activity and no controlled parameters.
As for fructose in trained individuals…
“both glucose and fructose promote rapid accumulation of glycogen in the liver.”
… Find me a single study where humans fed moderate amounts of fructose get sick and I’ll change my tune.[/quote]
"an increased fructose intake of >/=74 g/d "
Way to edit out where I specifically said “20-35g daily”. In order to consume 75g of fructose from Gatorade, the OP would have to consume around 2.5 liters of it. Your article is also a cross-sectional analysis based on self report data (people tend to underreport food intake and overreport activity levels) with little concession made for physical activity and no controlled parameters.
As for fructose in trained individuals…
“both glucose and fructose promote rapid accumulation of glycogen in the liver.”
[/quote]
74 grams is only 2.5 regular sodas which isn’t all that much. It independently and significantly associated with higher odds of elevated BP levels.
True it’s not the best study to show that 25 or whatever grams would harm a weight training individual, but the study is on the frontier of the topic. You’re not going to find a perfect study. I guarantee you that. It does support the theory (NOT PROVE) that fructose will do a person harm, but until proven that it is safe, I will limit my fructose intake to below ~25 grams per day.
And speaking of (im)perfect studies, your study is about endurance athletes. Fructose might do a fine job of replacing liver glycogen (which is great if you want to go for another run), but that is not the main goal of a strength training athlete. Liver glycogen stores are hardly depleted from even an intense weight training session.
[quote]Scorzerci wrote:
Currently I’m trying out carb backloading, as although I got decent results front loading carbs, I didn’t like the feeling of fullness during training, as well as timing sometimes being an issue. Currently I’m doing no carbs before workout, peri workout I drink half a liter of grape juice with two scoops of vanilla whey mixed in (80 grams of carbs, roughly 50/50 between glucose and fructose), and whole foods (protein+carbs) post workout. Whole foods isn’t really an option during the workout, so is grape juice a decent carb source, or is there anything else you guys would recommend as a better peri-workout carb source (ie less fructose), other than supplements such as WMS or vitargo (supplements are expensive as fuck over here so I’m limited to whey and creatine)?
PS. Sorry for attempting thread hijack, although I have a feeling my question relates more closely to the OP’s question than Maurice’s “fructose will kill you, your family and everyone you love” argument :P[/quote]
Not sure how much cred I still have here on this post or T period…
But…
You can’t find any cheap dextrose? Where do you live?
I can get it at $3.10/lb online for 10lbs (after shipping). I’m here in the US tho, but I know customs can be a bitch if you need to deal w them elsewhere.
If you are in the States pm me for the site.
Supps get expensive for sure, but if you can find em at decent prices they are cheaper than whole foods, by a lot (not that they should replace them, just sayin).
[quote]Scorzerci wrote:
Currently I’m trying out carb backloading, as although I got decent results front loading carbs, I didn’t like the feeling of fullness during training, as well as timing sometimes being an issue. Currently I’m doing no carbs before workout, peri workout I drink half a liter of grape juice with two scoops of vanilla whey mixed in (80 grams of carbs, roughly 50/50 between glucose and fructose), and whole foods (protein+carbs) post workout. Whole foods isn’t really an option during the workout, so is grape juice a decent carb source, or is there anything else you guys would recommend as a better peri-workout carb source (ie less fructose), other than supplements such as WMS or vitargo (supplements are expensive as fuck over here so I’m limited to whey and creatine)?
PS. Sorry for attempting thread hijack, although I have a feeling my question relates more closely to the OP’s question than Maurice’s “fructose will kill you, your family and everyone you love” argument :P[/quote]
Not sure how much cred I still have here on this post or T period…
But…
You can’t find any cheap dextrose? Where do you live?
I can get it at $3.10/lb online for 10lbs (after shipping). I’m here in the US tho, but I know customs can be a bitch if you need to deal w them elsewhere.
If you are in the States pm me for the site.
Supps get expensive for sure, but if you can find em at decent prices they are cheaper than whole foods, by a lot (not that they should replace them, just sayin).
[/quote]
I live in Switzerland. Closest thing I could find in online shops here at a decent price is maltodextrin, but it’s still fairly expensive. Importing isn’t really an option as price usually doubles, if not more simply from shipping.
[quote]Scorzerci wrote:
I live in Switzerland. Closest thing I could find in online shops here at a decent price is maltodextrin, but it’s still fairly expensive. Importing isn’t really an option as price usually doubles, if not more simply from shipping. [/quote]
But since you’re either an investment banker, watchmaker or world class tennis player you can afford it anyway, right? Seriously though, I feel your pain when it comes to living in a small country with crazy customs authorities. Drive to Germany?
I use malto. All of it turns into glucose and I really don’t see a reason to use anything fancier. (It sure as hell isn’t optimal, but as long as it’s good, I’m happy)
Unfortunately I’m only 18 years old so I don’t really have the banking richness haha. The biggest difference betwen maltodextrin and juice, to me, is that my parents will gladly buy me food (actually, that’s not entirely true; at 185 lbs 6’3" my parents think I’m too big, and need to stop eating so damn much meat haha), but if it comes in a powder or in a capsule, it comes out of my own pocket. I’ll look into maltodextrin, I was just wondering if it would be significantly better (ie warrant the increased cost to me) than what I was already doing.
Oh, and to any of the bigger guys, please don’t tell me that at my weight/height I’m overanalyzing things and just need to eat a hamburger (:P). there are ways that work, and there’s a way that works the best. I’m simply trying my best to find the latter. Also I have three months until my military service starts, where I’m not really doing anything other than trying to get my driver’s license and working out, so at the moment it’s not as if I have many matters that need more attention than the type of carb in my peri/post workout drink
I’ll give you this, I must say. Got caught up in the rest.
Back to sucrose.
I’ll try and regurgitate it the way my professor explained it, very simply. The liver holds about 100g glycogen in it at any given time. This is filled up mostly from carbs, but proteins add to the pool too. Depending on the individuals metabolic/hormone state having a total of 100g carbs/proteins (9:1 ratio or higher typically) will fill that up even if it was depleted (training/sleep).
The extra caloric intake of AAs and carbs will lead to a spill over for the body to deal with. B/c fructose gives such a low insulin response a lot of the fructose will be utilized as a backbone for blood triglycerides instead of going through normal bodily functions as most carbs do from an insulin increase/spike.
Sorry fellas, gotta try and defend my education you know? Shits expensive, I’d hope my ass is getting the right info.
Contradictions/misconceptions on my part/other (constructive) comments and criticism are welcome, I’m tired, there’s too many of you fuckers to question me anyway…[/quote]
Couple of things:
So the liver holds glycogen, some of which is protein? Want to try again?
You do realize that sucrose is 50% glucose and 50% fructose, right?
You still haven’t explained how 20-35g of fructose per day is harmful since the “evidence” you have presented applies only to pure fructose fed as the sole energy source. Find me a single study where humans fed moderate amounts of fructose get sick and I’ll change my tune.[/quote]
Protein is turned to glycogen, especially when fasted. Not exclusively, but it will turn into glycogen to a certain percentage. Basic stuff really.
and…? your point? are you saying it can be used for periworkout nutrition like glucose bc it’s already 1/2 that?
I did explain this. Your picking at the little details. I never said (1 gaterade) per day, I was talking about the ADDED fructose to your diet from gaterade, for the day. Never did I say one medium gaterade would be bad, did I? After a day of getting food in and adding more fructose would be bad.
You get fructose from all kinds of shit, fruit and some veggies too. There’s going to be a spill over if you have a decent amount of carbs in your diet. But I already explained all of this.
I’m not going to find a study showing that -low- intake of fructose the 30 or so grams you’re talking about per day is bad. it’s nothing, that’s about 2 servings of fruit.
Why is it that I have to say sugar/fructose is bad at a website like this? It doesn’t make sense to me that ppl will defend it even a little.
