Post Here To Accept Jesus Christ

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

Matthew 25 has to do with Jesus’ return after the Great Tribulation at the end times. He will separate those who believed in Him during the Tribulation from those who did not. Their belief or lack thereof, will be demonstrated by what they did. The Bible does clearly teach that actions show what the spiritual state of the heart is.

Now as for the Biblical position that Jesus is the only path or way, again take this up with God, not me. Here are some crystal clear verses for you to consider:

“?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again?a, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ?He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:14-18

?“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

The Bible doesn’t teach that Jesus is the only way? Really?

Steve,

You have your verses, and I have mine. At the very least, the Bible itself can be interpreted in different ways (See The Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Catechism, Calvin, the Mormons, etc.). I personally believe that the Bible is quite clear on the fact that humans cannot determine who is or is not going to Heaven. That is contained within the idea of presumption.

Todd[/quote]

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???

142

THOR-

The German God of thunder says “every thursday you need to go to the gym and lift in his honor”

Now get to work and finish this arguement without a solution.

143

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???
[/quote]

I’ll say it.

Yes, Jesus was a liar if he claimed to be the son of god. I never heard him say it, so I can’t be sure. Neither can you, for that matter.

144

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

Matthew 25 has to do with Jesus’ return after the Great Tribulation at the end times. He will separate those who believed in Him during the Tribulation from those who did not. Their belief or lack thereof, will be demonstrated by what they did. The Bible does clearly teach that actions show what the spiritual state of the heart is.

Now as for the Biblical position that Jesus is the only path or way, again take this up with God, not me. Here are some crystal clear verses for you to consider:

“?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again?a, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ?He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:14-18

?“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

The Bible doesn’t teach that Jesus is the only way? Really?

Steve,

You have your verses, and I have mine. At the very least, the Bible itself can be interpreted in different ways (See The Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Catechism, Calvin, the Mormons, etc.). I personally believe that the Bible is quite clear on the fact that humans cannot determine who is or is not going to Heaven. That is contained within the idea of presumption.

Todd

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???
[/quote]

I’m not calling Jesus a liar at all. I am saying that the Bible, and even some of Jesus’ direct quotes within it, is not meant to be taken literally. A simple dissection of the language suggests that we are meant to glean the MEANING of what is said, as opposed to just swallowing everything at face value.

Taking the Bible at face value is a self defeating process because you will inevitably have to deal with passages that contradict each other.

Todd

145

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

Matthew 25 has to do with Jesus’ return after the Great Tribulation at the end times. He will separate those who believed in Him during the Tribulation from those who did not. Their belief or lack thereof, will be demonstrated by what they did. The Bible does clearly teach that actions show what the spiritual state of the heart is.

Now as for the Biblical position that Jesus is the only path or way, again take this up with God, not me. Here are some crystal clear verses for you to consider:

“?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again?a, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ?He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:14-18

?“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

The Bible doesn’t teach that Jesus is the only way? Really?

Steve,

You have your verses, and I have mine. At the very least, the Bible itself can be interpreted in different ways (See The Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Catechism, Calvin, the Mormons, etc.). I personally believe that the Bible is quite clear on the fact that humans cannot determine who is or is not going to Heaven. That is contained within the idea of presumption.

Todd

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???

I’m not calling Jesus a liar at all. I am saying that the Bible, and even some of Jesus’ direct quotes within it, is not meant to be taken literally. A simple dissection of the language suggests that we are meant to glean the MEANING of what is said, as opposed to just swallowing everything at face value.

Taking the Bible at face value is a self defeating process because you will inevitably have to deal with passages that contradict each other.

Todd
[/quote]

What contradictions?..

…examples?

146

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

Matthew 25 has to do with Jesus’ return after the Great Tribulation at the end times. He will separate those who believed in Him during the Tribulation from those who did not. Their belief or lack thereof, will be demonstrated by what they did. The Bible does clearly teach that actions show what the spiritual state of the heart is.

Now as for the Biblical position that Jesus is the only path or way, again take this up with God, not me. Here are some crystal clear verses for you to consider:

“?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again?a, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ?He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:14-18

?“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

The Bible doesn’t teach that Jesus is the only way? Really?

Steve,

You have your verses, and I have mine. At the very least, the Bible itself can be interpreted in different ways (See The Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Catechism, Calvin, the Mormons, etc.). I personally believe that the Bible is quite clear on the fact that humans cannot determine who is or is not going to Heaven. That is contained within the idea of presumption.

Todd

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???

I’m not calling Jesus a liar at all. I am saying that the Bible, and even some of Jesus’ direct quotes within it, is not meant to be taken literally. A simple dissection of the language suggests that we are meant to glean the MEANING of what is said, as opposed to just swallowing everything at face value.

Taking the Bible at face value is a self defeating process because you will inevitably have to deal with passages that contradict each other.

Todd
[/quote]

Todd,

I am puzzled a bit at your responses. While I am glad to see that you are not attacking the veracity of Jesus Himself directly, since He is God, you are attacking Him indirectly by stating that His Word is somehow not what it claims to be – the inspired Word of God.

That does seem, to me, a contradiction of sorts in your thinking here. On the one hand you say we must take the MEANING of the Bible, but not take it literally.

So, when Jesus says “I am THE Way, THE truth, THE life, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME” we are to take its meaning (which is of course that He is THE ONLY WAY to God), but then not take it literally. What is this supposed to mean? What does this leave us with? Why have a Bible then? What good is it if we cannot take it literally? Just some nice sayings to live by?

Again, if Jesus is who He claims to be, then either He is lying or the entire Bible is a lie, or its true. You really cannot have it both ways.

Todd, I do appreciate your honesty and willingness to have this “discussion” on a public forum, so I ask you to really think about your position here before you reply.

147

I smoke too much weed. If you can remember my earliest posts i came on here pretending to be some aristocrat. Im a sinner and i drink occasionally and have sex too. im thinking about getting stuff peirced and perhaps this isnt a good lifestyle. could somebody lead me to jesus?

148

[quote]GeorgeMontyIV wrote:
I smoke too much weed. If you can remember my earliest posts i came on here pretending to be some aristocrat. Im a sinner and i drink occasionally and have sex too. im thinking about getting stuff peirced and perhaps this isnt a good lifestyle. could somebody lead me to jesus?[/quote]

Everyone is a sinner:

“?For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:23

“?For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.” Ecclesiastes 7:10

Our sin has separated us from God, creating as it were an infinite chasm. Try as we might, God doesn’t even “hear” us because of our sin:

“But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid?a his face from you, that he will not hear.” Isaiah 59:2

The infinite chasm, created by OUR SIN, cannot be bridged by any “good thing” that we could ever do:

“?But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6

Our sin demands just payment from a Holy God. That payment is death, both physical death and spiritual death:

“?For the wages of sin is death;…” Romans 6:23a

“?And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. ?And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ?And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell?a delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. ?And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. ?And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:11-15

So are we left without hope? Are we left to die in our sins? Is there anything or anyone that can save us?

YES!

Jesus Christ – God’s Son – came to die for our sins that we might have life eternal!

“…but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23b

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” John 3:14-17

“?Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. ?Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. ?For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Mattew 11:28-30

“?That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. ?For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. ?For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. ?For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. ?For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

The “Good News” (Gospel) of Jesus Christ is that God, manifested in the flesh, came to earth to die on a Roman cross 2000 years ago to save sinners like ME and YOU! If we only believe the Gospel – believe the message of the Bible – we too can be saved!

How can you be saved? This question was asked of the Apostle Paul a man named Silas by a jailer (a warden of sorts) in the city of Phillipi. This was the question and this was the answer from God:

“…Sirs, what must I do to be saved? ?And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:30-31

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” – this means to place your complete trust in the savings power of the Son of God. Faith has always been the way of salvation. The Bible teaches us that Abraham – the great progenitor of the Jewish people – was saved by his faith.

“?And he [God] brought him [Abraham] forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6?And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.” Genesis 15:5-6

“?Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted?a to him for righteousness. ?Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. ?And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. ?So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.” Galatians 3:6-9

Please don’t mock this! Please don’t dismiss this as the rantings of some lunatic! That is the mistake the people made in the days of Noah.

God IS REAL! Heaven and Hell are REAL!..

…our destiny really comes down to faith. Will you believe and ask Christ to save you. He wants to save you. He will save you. If you would only ask Him in faith.

May the Lord of Heaven bless you and may you truly find His PEACE (His Shalom).

SteveO

149

Are all the question marks part of a subliminal messae.

Ahd when the posting looks like the rantings of a lunatic, which they do a bit, then how would you expect to be taken.

In writting in archane grammer from the bible, it is hard not to take that inference.

150

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

Matthew 25 has to do with Jesus’ return after the Great Tribulation at the end times. He will separate those who believed in Him during the Tribulation from those who did not. Their belief or lack thereof, will be demonstrated by what they did. The Bible does clearly teach that actions show what the spiritual state of the heart is.

Now as for the Biblical position that Jesus is the only path or way, again take this up with God, not me. Here are some crystal clear verses for you to consider:

“?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again?a, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ?He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:14-18

?“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

The Bible doesn’t teach that Jesus is the only way? Really?

Steve,

You have your verses, and I have mine. At the very least, the Bible itself can be interpreted in different ways (See The Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Catechism, Calvin, the Mormons, etc.). I personally believe that the Bible is quite clear on the fact that humans cannot determine who is or is not going to Heaven. That is contained within the idea of presumption.

Todd

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???

I’m not calling Jesus a liar at all. I am saying that the Bible, and even some of Jesus’ direct quotes within it, is not meant to be taken literally. A simple dissection of the language suggests that we are meant to glean the MEANING of what is said, as opposed to just swallowing everything at face value.

Taking the Bible at face value is a self defeating process because you will inevitably have to deal with passages that contradict each other.

Todd

Todd,

I am puzzled a bit at your responses. While I am glad to see that you are not attacking the veracity of Jesus Himself directly, since He is God, you are attacking Him indirectly by stating that His Word is somehow not what it claims to be – the inspired Word of God.

That does seem, to me, a contradiction of sorts in your thinking here. On the one hand you say we must take the MEANING of the Bible, but not take it literally.

So, when Jesus says “I am THE Way, THE truth, THE life, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME” we are to take its meaning (which is of course that He is THE ONLY WAY to God), but then not take it literally. What is this supposed to mean? What does this leave us with? Why have a Bible then? What good is it if we cannot take it literally? Just some nice sayings to live by?

Again, if Jesus is who He claims to be, then either He is lying or the entire Bible is a lie, or its true. You really cannot have it both ways.

Todd, I do appreciate your honesty and willingness to have this “discussion” on a public forum, so I ask you to really think about your position here before you reply.

[/quote]

Why would it bother you if Todd was attacking, as you say, Jesus. Does it offend a sensibility, does it cut to the core, ar anger you.

So if i were to say that Jesus, surely did live, he was no more than a cultist leader with Charisma that was the catalyst in a change of views many thousands of years ago around a specific religion, you would find that synopsis insulting?

151

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Please don’t mock this! Please don’t dismiss this as the rantings of some lunatic! That is the mistake the people made in the days of Noah.
[/quote]

Do you think we could spur God into doing another Flood?

Could it be that the melting ice caps and slowly rising sea levels have nothing to do with global warming, but are due to God slowly getting pissed off?

Man, I’m getting a few crates of Bibles and a woodchipper.

152

I have also commited apparant blasphemies:

  • I used to live in a campus religous-affiliated type of organization, in their house, and i brought a girl up to have sex with. It was kind of kinky considering that there were crucifixes bibles and pictures of jesus everywhere one probably frowned at me.

  • I made an omelate the other day and had some sour cream, and an ham/bacon/mushroom/cheese omelete and decided to spread the sour cream in the shape of a cross on said omelete.

  • I have drank beer/smoked weed in this church house when i lived there.

  • I brought a bum to live in there for a few days, i said he needed religion everybody else wasnt impressed for reason.

  • Oh and i came back from a party trashed and urinated on a tree outside the house then vomited everywhere. I was certainly in the right place if you consider that i needed a moral education.

153

[quote]miniross wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

Matthew 25 has to do with Jesus’ return after the Great Tribulation at the end times. He will separate those who believed in Him during the Tribulation from those who did not. Their belief or lack thereof, will be demonstrated by what they did. The Bible does clearly teach that actions show what the spiritual state of the heart is.

Now as for the Biblical position that Jesus is the only path or way, again take this up with God, not me. Here are some crystal clear verses for you to consider:

“?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again?a, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ?He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:14-18

?“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

The Bible doesn’t teach that Jesus is the only way? Really?

Steve,

You have your verses, and I have mine. At the very least, the Bible itself can be interpreted in different ways (See The Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Catechism, Calvin, the Mormons, etc.). I personally believe that the Bible is quite clear on the fact that humans cannot determine who is or is not going to Heaven. That is contained within the idea of presumption.

Todd

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???

I’m not calling Jesus a liar at all. I am saying that the Bible, and even some of Jesus’ direct quotes within it, is not meant to be taken literally. A simple dissection of the language suggests that we are meant to glean the MEANING of what is said, as opposed to just swallowing everything at face value.

Taking the Bible at face value is a self defeating process because you will inevitably have to deal with passages that contradict each other.

Todd

Todd,

I am puzzled a bit at your responses. While I am glad to see that you are not attacking the veracity of Jesus Himself directly, since He is God, you are attacking Him indirectly by stating that His Word is somehow not what it claims to be – the inspired Word of God.

That does seem, to me, a contradiction of sorts in your thinking here. On the one hand you say we must take the MEANING of the Bible, but not take it literally.

So, when Jesus says “I am THE Way, THE truth, THE life, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME” we are to take its meaning (which is of course that He is THE ONLY WAY to God), but then not take it literally. What is this supposed to mean? What does this leave us with? Why have a Bible then? What good is it if we cannot take it literally? Just some nice sayings to live by?

Again, if Jesus is who He claims to be, then either He is lying or the entire Bible is a lie, or its true. You really cannot have it both ways.

Todd, I do appreciate your honesty and willingness to have this “discussion” on a public forum, so I ask you to really think about your position here before you reply.

Why would it bother you if Todd was attacking, as you say, Jesus. Does it offend a sensibility, does it cut to the core, ar anger you.

So if i were to say that Jesus, surely did live, he was no more than a cultist leader with Charisma that was the catalyst in a change of views many thousands of years ago around a specific religion, you would find that synopsis insulting?

[/quote]

Have you ever read the book titled - Case for Christ?

A lawyer picks apart Christ’s life and evidence for his existence and comes to the conclusion that the whole story on Jesus Christ is true.

154

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:

Have you ever read the book titled - Case for Christ?

A lawyer picks apart Christ’s life and evidence for his existence and comes to the conclusion that the whole story on Jesus Christ is true.

[/quote]

A lawyer? Really?

155

Wow, a lawyer.

It must be true. are god and lawyers in cahoots. that would explain a lot.

156

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

I am puzzled a bit at your responses. While I am glad to see that you are not attacking the veracity of Jesus Himself directly, since He is God, you are attacking Him indirectly by stating that His Word is somehow not what it claims to be – the inspired Word of God.

That does seem, to me, a contradiction of sorts in your thinking here. On the one hand you say we must take the MEANING of the Bible, but not take it literally.

So, when Jesus says “I am THE Way, THE truth, THE life, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME” we are to take its meaning (which is of course that He is THE ONLY WAY to God), but then not take it literally. What is this supposed to mean? What does this leave us with? Why have a Bible then? What good is it if we cannot take it literally? Just some nice sayings to live by?

Again, if Jesus is who He claims to be, then either He is lying or the entire Bible is a lie, or its true. You really cannot have it both ways.

Todd, I do appreciate your honesty and willingness to have this “discussion” on a public forum, so I ask you to really think about your position here before you reply.

[/quote]

Steve,

The Bible is a large and diverse work. In it, you can come up with with many passages that support what you are saying. Conversely, I can also come up with many verses that support what I believe.

To me, arguing with verses is failing to see the forest for the trees. I believe that the Bible must be viewed as a complete work to make any sense at all. Let me give you an example.

During all of the discussions on T-Nation over the past week, I have yet to read a Christian post that explicitly mentions Covenants. I find this extremely odd, as I believe that Covenants are THE central theme of the Bible.

There are basically two key Covenants in the Bible. After the Great Flood, God creates a rainbow to signify that he will never again use a disaster to destroy humanity. Then the real meat of the OT starts, and we get a lot of the fire and brimstone parts of the Bible up until the start of the NT.

Jesus’ death upon the cross and subsequent resurrection was, of course, the second Covenant. That covenant signified that God had sacrificed his one true son to atone for all of the sins of humanity. It also signified a revision on the previous modus operandi of fire and brimstone.

Covenants are also important from the standpoint that they limit God. But how can this be so, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, etc.? God chooses to impose limits on himself in order to keep his promises to humanity.

For all the atheist arguments that have keyed in particularly on the OT, few Christians have made this clarification. Lots of chapters and verses, but few big picture arguments. I find this troubling. To me, it suggests a lack of real understanding of underlying themes and messages, with the intellectually lazy method of quoting literal passages being preferred by many.

Second, you have to realize that most people, who aren’t already card carrying Christians, are not going to simply accept the Bible at face value. If you cannot relate the value of Christianity back to the real world, and explain or at least recognize some of the inherent difficulties in so doing, you will never effectively deliver your message to those whom you intend it to reach.

Basically, if all you have on your side are Bible passages, then your attempts at ministry will generally fail.

This post applies to many, but certainly not all (haney, agshag, etc.), T-Nation Christian posters.

All that being said, I applaud your strong faith, and I am truly glad that finding fulfillment in Jesus’ message has brought peace and stability to your life.

Todd

157

[quote]doogie wrote:
A lawyer? Really?[/quote]

Actually, Lee Strobel was a Legal Affairs journalist, not a lawyer.

The book gets posted fairly regularly in alt.binaries.e-books.

158

[quote]miniross wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Todd,

Matthew 25 has to do with Jesus’ return after the Great Tribulation at the end times. He will separate those who believed in Him during the Tribulation from those who did not. Their belief or lack thereof, will be demonstrated by what they did. The Bible does clearly teach that actions show what the spiritual state of the heart is.

Now as for the Biblical position that Jesus is the only path or way, again take this up with God, not me. Here are some crystal clear verses for you to consider:

“?Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again?a, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

“?And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ?That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ?For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ?For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. ?He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:14-18

?“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36

The Bible doesn’t teach that Jesus is the only way? Really?

Steve,

You have your verses, and I have mine. At the very least, the Bible itself can be interpreted in different ways (See The Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Catechism, Calvin, the Mormons, etc.). I personally believe that the Bible is quite clear on the fact that humans cannot determine who is or is not going to Heaven. That is contained within the idea of presumption.

Todd

Todd,

So let’s put it on the line then.

Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

Yes or no???

I’m not calling Jesus a liar at all. I am saying that the Bible, and even some of Jesus’ direct quotes within it, is not meant to be taken literally. A simple dissection of the language suggests that we are meant to glean the MEANING of what is said, as opposed to just swallowing everything at face value.

Taking the Bible at face value is a self defeating process because you will inevitably have to deal with passages that contradict each other.

Todd

Todd,

I am puzzled a bit at your responses. While I am glad to see that you are not attacking the veracity of Jesus Himself directly, since He is God, you are attacking Him indirectly by stating that His Word is somehow not what it claims to be – the inspired Word of God.

That does seem, to me, a contradiction of sorts in your thinking here. On the one hand you say we must take the MEANING of the Bible, but not take it literally.

So, when Jesus says “I am THE Way, THE truth, THE life, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME” we are to take its meaning (which is of course that He is THE ONLY WAY to God), but then not take it literally. What is this supposed to mean? What does this leave us with? Why have a Bible then? What good is it if we cannot take it literally? Just some nice sayings to live by?

Again, if Jesus is who He claims to be, then either He is lying or the entire Bible is a lie, or its true. You really cannot have it both ways.

Todd, I do appreciate your honesty and willingness to have this “discussion” on a public forum, so I ask you to really think about your position here before you reply.

Why would it bother you if Todd was attacking, as you say, Jesus. Does it offend a sensibility, does it cut to the core, ar anger you.

So if i were to say that Jesus, surely did live, he was no more than a cultist leader with Charisma that was the catalyst in a change of views many thousands of years ago around a specific religion, you would find that synopsis insulting?

[/quote]

Nah, I am not at all insulted. You will one day have to deal with God, as will everyone alive who will someday die. The expression “meet your maker” is actually true. We will one day meet our maker and then we will all know the truth. However, it will be too late for some.

Anyway, this will be my LAST POST to this thread. I thank each and everyone of you who read the exortaions that I expressed from God’s Word and I will continue to pray for all of you that you will come to the knowlege of the Truth.

From time to time, I will post and will always be strong about my faith. Obviously, this is not very welcome and I am sorry if I caused anyone to get angry or upset, but the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is meant to cut to the heart and to convict us of our sin. Jesus made lots of enemies while on Earth, and He said that “the disciple is not above His master…”

Again, I trust that you will consider God’s truths for yourself. Read the Bible – dare God to reveal Himself to you. If you truly mean it from the heart, He will!

May you all find His peace!

SteveO

159

Hail Dagon!

160

So what do i do to get saved from damnation and why? Any religion is free to respond to this. May the best beleif win :slight_smile: