[quote]jsbrook wrote:
deanec wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
deanec wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
singram wrote:
Man,look at the verbal vomit coming out of peoples mouths.They say they hate Christians because they are small minded and intolerant.Then they go off being intolerent and small minded on somebodys beliefs and religon.Oh you’re a Christian,because of you we have wars,look at WWII.I can’t help it if Hitler hijacked my religon to promote his twisted and evil deeds.You don’t like Christans,fine,I don’t care for your bigoted anti-anybody whos a christan ignorant asses.You see,I respect anybodys beliefs unless it promotes hate,which does include some so-called Christains.And the hate coming out of some of the atheist on this thread toward religon is just fucked up.
Nah. It is self-righteous, sanctimonius, pompous, smug and not in keeping with the spirit of God to state that Christianity is the only legitimate religion. Further, it’s a position than many Christian leaders have rejected. It is wrong to condemn Christianty and Christians simply because you don’t share their beliefs. There are many wonderful things in and of Christianity. Chrisitanity is great. Evangelicism and this ‘Jesus is the only path to salvation’ attitude is not, and it’s not wrong to condemn that.
We could debate all day long as to the veracity of the bible. We could sit here and correctly say that many who call themselves “Christian” are arrogant, smug and self-righteous. It is also accurate to say that religion shouldn’t be shoved down peoples throats. But…
IF you believe that the bible is revelation from God and accurate, and IF you desire follow what it says, part of that includes sharing your faith. Both Christ himself and the apostles made the claim that salvation through Christ is the only way.
John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
I didn’t make up the “rules”. I believe the bible, and the bible clearly states that Christ is the only way. Any “leader” who states otherwise does not follow the Christ of the bible, and it causes me to wonder why they operate under its auspices at all. You can’t just pick and choose the parts you like and ignore the parts you don’t.
I have no quarrel with anyone who does not believe the same way I do, and I hope I do not come across that way.
I agree with you 100 percent. The Catholics are flat out wrong in stating there are other ways to God other than Jesus Christ.
I have said it before, Catholics follow the traditions of men, not the Bible or Christ. The Bible strongly warns against following the traditions of men. This is exactly what is happening with the Catholic Church and the Pope.
Protestant and Episcopalian laeders who say must be flat out wrong too. The world really is blind. There really are only those chosen few that see the chosen path! Everyone else is in trouble. Who knew? Wouldn’t it be a ludicrous world that sends selfless, kind and good people, who make this world a better place, and are devout believers in God to hell because they don’t follow the arbitrary rules of a particular tradition? Yup
I understand completely where you are coming from, and it is not an easy question. Many people do not see where “Christ is the only way” could possibly be true. I have done my best to explain my position under the premise that I believe scripture to be accurate.
My own experience in a nutshell is this: I grew up going to church, went to a christian school, got a major in bible. Had more knowledge of the bible than 99% of people anywhere. Got married to a godly woman. Went into the service and totally turned my back on God. Did all sorts of things that I am not proud of.
My wife dragged me to church the few times I would go. Got out of the service, came back home. Started going back to church because all my friends and family up here expected it. I was the biggest hypocrite ever, faked the whole deal pretty good. Even got a job teaching P.E. and coaching the H.S. soccer team in the christian school.
But I knew what was going on, it was pretty much all a sham. My marriage was pretty rocky at times, my relationship with my sons was poor, I was very unsettled. Even though I went to church two or three times a week, gave money to the church and tried to do good and help people, something very tangible was missing. I was trying to get to God on my own terms, with one foot in church and the other one dancing with the devil. This went on for years.
It all changed when I had my bible open, I don’t even remember the exact circumstances and read this: Matthew 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
It was after reading this that I was convinced that I could not get to God on my own terms. Lots of people do lots of great things, and are a lot better people than I am. These verses indicate that even people who think they are doing things in God’s name are in danger of being cast out. How do we reconcile that with a loving and just God?
The way I see it is we have to do God’s will in God’s way. We cannot reject what we don’t like just because we don’t agree with it or feel it is restrictive. We can only come to God in the way that God has shown.
This is not necessarily easy to wrap our heads around. Christ himself in the same chapter of Matthew said this “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it” but also these great words “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.”
This same chapter opens with these words: “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” It is not up to me to decide who “gets in” and who doesn’t, but up to God. It is my responsibility to share with others what I believe to be the truth.
I don’t believe I am better than anyone else. There are many muslims, jews, catholics, etc. that are probably much more devout to their religion and better people than I am. However I don’t think any of us will gain access to heaven on our own merits. I hope this helps explain where I am coming from a little better. I know there will be many who do not agree, and that is understandable.
I understand where you are coming from I just don’t agree. Chrisitanity, Judaism, and Muslim share many of the same central elements. I think they are all appropriate ‘paths’ if you will.
I believe the rituals are unimportant. If anything, your post emphasizes that to me. I think all of your problems came from turning your back on God and internally not having a place in your heart.
Not from turning your back on the rituals of Christianity. Indeed, you said that you were going to Chruch times a week. But you were just going through the motions. Just going through the motions, and not truly internalizing the morality and ethical messages behind them, will not cut it and leave you unfulfilled whatever your relgion.
In contrast, truly embracing the underlying message and goals and truly focusing on being a good person will. I believe that any relgion can bring you where you go if you truly embrace it and are really a good persone despite the fact that there are places in the sacred texts of all that would indicate otherwise and people who practice them that believe otherwise.
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I don’t see my problem as having anything to do with the “church” and it’s rituals. I believe the rituals to be unimportant and immaterial, particularly to the matter of the eternal soul and it’s destination. I also don’t believe that I am “good” based on anything within my ability. Doing and being good can never earn you your way into heaven.
Where is the line between “bad” and “good” drawn? Who is to say what is bad or good at all? This is what really what delineates a follower of Christ from all other religions; The follower of Christ is prompted to good works because of his or her relationship with Christ, while all others seek to win favor with God by striving to do good and being good people within the framework of a particular system. How can you ever be sure you are doing enough to earn your way in?
I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. You have obviously put much thought into your responses and are seeking truth. I pray you will find what you are looking for.
