I’m really curious why the people who don’t believe in God are so passionate about not believing and telling people who do believe that they are stupid.
What do you have to be passionate about? I am passionate about believing in God and telling others because that is what we are commanded to do.
Where does your passion come from?
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
I’m really curious why the people who don’t believe in God are so passionate about not believing and telling people who do believe that they are stupid.
What do you have to be passionate about? I am passionate about believing in God and telling others because that is what we are commanded to do.
Where does your passion come from?[/quote]
I am passionate about learning in general. I find religion to be a very interesting subject. I also enjoy engaging in educated discussion with people who may or may not share my views and beliefs.
I haven’t called believers stupid. On the contrary, I find many believers to be very intelligent.
I have called you an idiot because in several instances you have openly exposed your stupidity. I have also openly applauded the intelligence and candor of several believers with whom I have been able to have great exchanges.
Basically, I don’t claim that believers are stupid, just you.
Todd
[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
I’m really curious why the people who don’t believe in God are so passionate about not believing and telling people who do believe that they are stupid.
What do you have to be passionate about? I am passionate about believing in God and telling others because that is what we are commanded to do.
Where does your passion come from?
I am passionate about learning in general. I find religion to be a very interesting subject. I also enjoy engaging in educated discussion with people who may or may not share my views and beliefs.
I haven’t called believers stupid. On the contrary, I find many believers to be very intelligent.
I have called you an idiot because in several instances you have openly exposed your stupidity. I have also openly applauded the intelligence and candor of several believers with whom I have been able to have great exchanges.
Basically, I don’t claim that believers are stupid, just you.
Todd[/quote]
If you are so smart, why do you waste your time at a Bodybuilding website debating about religion?
Shouldn’t you be way beyond this?
Also, you don’t know anything about me or the life that I live. I wrote up a couple of posts that you thought were stupid so your basing your entire judgement on that and calling me an idiot and stupid. Very, very quick to jump to conclusions.
It’s so easy to sit behind your computer screen and insult faceless people that you will never meet. To me, that’s ignorant and cowardly.
I don’t have anything against you becasue I have no idea who you are. Therefore I refrain from the petty name calling.
[quote]doogie wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Have you ever read the book titled - Case for Christ?
A lawyer picks apart Christ’s life and evidence for his existence and comes to the conclusion that the whole story on Jesus Christ is true.
A lawyer? Really?[/quote]
Actually the lawyer who picks the gospels apart is Simeon Greenleaf
Here is his book
Unless you really like legal documents, I wouldn’t read it. It is informative, and interesting, but because of his attempt to put it on trial it is a little slow.
Personally I am not a big fan of Lee Strobal’s books. They are more surface information rather than anything used for deep down proof. There are plenty of other books out there with better information than his. I would recommend who moved the Stone? I think Frank Morris wrote it. He was a journalist too, but atleast He didn’t take quotes from experts. He wrote on harmonizing the gospels from his own perspective.
[quote]pookie wrote:
doogie wrote:
A lawyer? Really?
Actually, Lee Strobel was a Legal Affairs journalist, not a lawyer.
The book gets posted fairly regularly in alt.binaries.e-books.
[/quote]
too bad. It isn’t that great of a book. Everyone running around screaming about it doesn’t help our cause either.
I think the atheist at
caseagainstfaith.com does a great job of picking this layman’s text apart.
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
If you are so smart, why do you waste your time at a Bodybuilding website debating about religion?
Shouldn’t you be way beyond this?
Also, you don’t know anything about me or the life that I live. I wrote up a couple of posts that you thought were stupid so your basing your entire judgement on that and calling me an idiot and stupid. Very, very quick to jump to conclusions.
It’s so easy to sit behind your computer screen and insult faceless people that you will never meet. To me, that’s ignorant and cowardly.
I don’t have anything against you becasue I have no idea who you are. Therefore I refrain from the petty name calling.
[/quote]
Okay, let’s get our facts straight. You were the one to initiate insulting comments. I just took you to task on it.
I never came to this site expecting to debate religion. However, I found an interesting discussion and decided to partake. I do not consider myself above this, obviously.
The key difference between you and I comes down to this. I made an attempt to participate in the discussion constructively. I was never told on a routine basis to go away because I had nothing worthwhile to contribute.
On the other hand, this did happen to you (from atheists, agnostics, and Christians alike), yet you continued to offer derogatory and destructive remarks.
Why would you resort to these tactics? I submit that your actions were driven by a lack of intelligence (and manners) to do anything else. If you disagree with my assessment, prove me wrong. Wouldn’t that be the easiest way to discount my remarks (as opposed to insisting that I don’t know you)?
I am eagerly awaiting your reasoned response.
Todd
[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
If you are so smart, why do you waste your time at a Bodybuilding website debating about religion?
Shouldn’t you be way beyond this?
Also, you don’t know anything about me or the life that I live. I wrote up a couple of posts that you thought were stupid so your basing your entire judgement on that and calling me an idiot and stupid. Very, very quick to jump to conclusions.
It’s so easy to sit behind your computer screen and insult faceless people that you will never meet. To me, that’s ignorant and cowardly.
I don’t have anything against you becasue I have no idea who you are. Therefore I refrain from the petty name calling.
Okay, let’s get our facts straight. You were the one to initiate insulting comments. I just took you to task on it.
I never came to this site expecting to debate religion. However, I found an interesting discussion and decided to partake. I do not consider myself above this, obviously.
The key difference between you and I comes down to this. I made an attempt to participate in the discussion constructively. I was never told on a routine basis to go away because I had nothing worthwhile to contribute.
On the other hand, this did happen to you (from atheists, agnostics, and Christians alike), yet you continued to offer derogatory and destructive remarks.
Why would you resort to these tactics? I submit that your actions were driven by a lack of intelligence (and manners) to do anything else. If you disagree with my assessment, prove me wrong. Wouldn’t that be the easiest way to discount my remarks (as opposed to insisting that I don’t know you)?
I am eagerly awaiting your reasoned response.
Todd[/quote]
My post:
How did something that didn’t exist (non living matter turning into living matter), which can’t be proven, manage to design all plants, animals and humans?
Let me guess you’re answers:
-Genetic Mutations:
Doesn’t show signs of anything positive in the real world.
-Evolution:
Only microevolution is proven which is animals adapting to their enviornment. Macroevolution is bullshit. It’s never been proven and it can’t because their is nothing to suggest that it did happen. But wait, smart scientists and archeologists with really convincing stories are telling me it did happen. Hmm, maybe I should believe them…
(Note sarcasm)
-All over billions and billions of years:
Which also can’t be proven. Human beings are incredibly arrogant to think they can comprehend and try to pick a part such an enormous time frame. Also, the dating methods have proven to be flawed.
Your first response to me:
I have a better question: How are you being helpful in contributing to this discussion so far?
Your second response to me without me responding back yet:
Okay. So you are saying that we shouldn’t listen to scientists, who are really smart, but, rather, we should listen to you, who has established himself as an idiot.
Solid argument there.
Todd
My first response to you:
Everything that I just said was truth. Explain what wasn’t true about what I said with facts.
You don’t know anything about me. You call me an idiot because you don’t believe what I typed. It’s a perfect example of what someone does when they have no argument, they result to calling people idiots, ignorant, etc.
With atheists all around making derogatory comments and undermining the intelligence of Christians, I made a post on my opinion.
How did I make the first insulting comment? You were the first! Not me.
Yet, you sit there and lecture me on manners despite the fact that you resorted to name calling and insults.
Which Christians told me to go away?
Which of my comments were derogatory and destructive?
The discussion taking place was on Creationism, Atheists, God, etc. What I said was NOT false. If you want to disagree, go ahead.
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
My post:
How did something that didn’t exist (non living matter turning into living matter), which can’t be proven, manage to design all plants, animals and humans?
Let me guess you’re answers:
-Genetic Mutations:
Doesn’t show signs of anything positive in the real world.
-Evolution:
Only microevolution is proven which is animals adapting to their enviornment. Macroevolution is bullshit. It’s never been proven and it can’t because their is nothing to suggest that it did happen. But wait, smart scientists and archeologists with really convincing stories are telling me it did happen. Hmm, maybe I should believe them…
(Note sarcasm)
-All over billions and billions of years:
Which also can’t be proven. Human beings are incredibly arrogant to think they can comprehend and try to pick a part such an enormous time frame. Also, the dating methods have proven to be flawed.
Your first response to me:
I have a better question: How are you being helpful in contributing to this discussion so far?
Your second response to me without me responding back yet:
Okay. So you are saying that we shouldn’t listen to scientists, who are really smart, but, rather, we should listen to you, who has established himself as an idiot.
Solid argument there.
Todd
My first response to you:
Everything that I just said was truth. Explain what wasn’t true about what I said with facts.
You don’t know anything about me. You call me an idiot because you don’t believe what I typed. It’s a perfect example of what someone does when they have no argument, they result to calling people idiots, ignorant, etc.
With atheists all around making derogatory comments and undermining the intelligence of Christians, I made a post on my opinion.
How did I make the first insulting comment? You were the first! Not me.
Yet, you sit there and lecture me on manners despite the fact that you resorted to name calling and insults.
Which Christians told me to go away?
Which of my comments were derogatory and destructive?
The discussion taking place was on Creationism, Atheists, God, etc. What I said was NOT false. If you want to disagree, go ahead.
[/quote]
We have been over this before. You present lots of opinions, but no facts. Once again you have failed to provide any kind of lucid argument. Even when I insult you, I back it up with the evidence you so kindly provide.
Your initial post fails to introduce any pertinent facts, but merely states your opinion. Yet that post is filled with condescension. Your own post refutes your argument, and you don’t even realize it. You are definitely an idiot, and I am strongly inclined to reclassify you as a moron.
We also shouldn’t forget your brilliant comments like: [quote]Good, stay there. We don’t need any more arrogant immigrants coming over here.[/quote]
My first response was responding to an entirely different post from you, which was contained in gray text as part of that post. It was nice of you to neglect to retain that portion. I am baffled that you find that first post to be offensive at all. I was attempting to call you to your senses.
My second response (aka the ACTUAL response) was a counter to your initial insulting post. There were no facts for me to refute, so I attacked the pitiful reasoning you attempted to employ. You had established, previously during the thread, that you were an ignoramus. I merely called you on it.
The Christians participating in the thread consistently lamented the actions of uninformed individuals, such as yourself, whom they felt contributed to a bad reputation for all Christians. Those posts are there. Read them yourself.
Todd
[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
My post:
How did something that didn’t exist (non living matter turning into living matter), which can’t be proven, manage to design all plants, animals and humans?
Let me guess you’re answers:
-Genetic Mutations:
Doesn’t show signs of anything positive in the real world.
-Evolution:
Only microevolution is proven which is animals adapting to their enviornment. Macroevolution is bullshit. It’s never been proven and it can’t because their is nothing to suggest that it did happen. But wait, smart scientists and archeologists with really convincing stories are telling me it did happen. Hmm, maybe I should believe them…
(Note sarcasm)
-All over billions and billions of years:
Which also can’t be proven. Human beings are incredibly arrogant to think they can comprehend and try to pick a part such an enormous time frame. Also, the dating methods have proven to be flawed.
Your first response to me:
I have a better question: How are you being helpful in contributing to this discussion so far?
Your second response to me without me responding back yet:
Okay. So you are saying that we shouldn’t listen to scientists, who are really smart, but, rather, we should listen to you, who has established himself as an idiot.
Solid argument there.
Todd
My first response to you:
Everything that I just said was truth. Explain what wasn’t true about what I said with facts.
You don’t know anything about me. You call me an idiot because you don’t believe what I typed. It’s a perfect example of what someone does when they have no argument, they result to calling people idiots, ignorant, etc.
With atheists all around making derogatory comments and undermining the intelligence of Christians, I made a post on my opinion.
How did I make the first insulting comment? You were the first! Not me.
Yet, you sit there and lecture me on manners despite the fact that you resorted to name calling and insults.
Which Christians told me to go away?
Which of my comments were derogatory and destructive?
The discussion taking place was on Creationism, Atheists, God, etc. What I said was NOT false. If you want to disagree, go ahead.
We have been over this before. You present lots of opinions, but no facts. Once again you have failed to provide any kind of lucid argument. Even when I insult you, I back it up with the evidence you so kindly provide.
Your initial post fails to introduce any pertinent facts, but merely states your opinion. Yet that post is filled with condescension. Your own post refutes your argument, and you don’t even realize it. You are definitely an idiot, and I am strongly inclined to reclassify you as a moron.
We also shouldn’t forget your brilliant comments like: Good, stay there. We don’t need any more arrogant immigrants coming over here.
My first response was responding to an entirely different post from you, which was contained in gray text as part of that post. It was nice of you to neglect to retain that portion. I am baffled that you find that first post to be offensive at all. I was attempting to call you to your senses.
My second response (aka the ACTUAL response) was a counter to your initial insulting post. There were no facts for me to refute, so I attacked the pitiful reasoning you attempted to employ. You had established, previously during the thread, that you were an ignoramus. I merely called you on it.
The Christians participating in the thread consistently lamented the actions of uninformed individuals, such as yourself, whom they felt contributed to a bad reputation for all Christians. Those posts are there. Read them yourself.
Todd[/quote]
I said genetic mutation isn’t benificial in the real world - IT’S NOT! I don’t care what anybody says, look around you. I am saying it’s impossible for life as we know to have mutated it’s way over millions of years to come up with what we have today. It’s pathetic and rediculous. Why SHOULD there be a debate about that? What evidence do you want?
I said that macroevolution can’t be proven - IT CAN’T! If you believe that, then good for you. What evidence do you want? It’s a known fact that it can’t be proven.
I said that the dating methods are flawed - THEY ARE! What evidence do you want? Even if I gave you evidence, you would just dismiss it with more flawed dating methods.
There is no winning so I am not debating with you anymore.
I am stupid, you are smart and amazingly intellectual and I really could care less. I’m done wasting my time arguing with you.
Please don’t respond because you won’t get a response in return, unless you want to waste your time.
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
I said genetic mutation isn’t beneficial in the real world - IT’S NOT! I don’t care what anybody says[/quote]
I don’t want to restart the argument with you, but if you’re interested on how those “random mutations” fit into natural selection and evolution, I’d propose the book “The Blind Watchmaker” by Richard Dawkins.
Is is one of the best explanation of the mechanism of evolution through mutations and natural selection.
You’re still free to dismiss it after reading it, but you’d better understand why it makes sense to so many people.
I already believe in God
I believe the Bible was inspired by God, and as such, I believe that it is open for misinterpretation since humans wrote it. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a good guide, but so too is the Koran, Tora, or any other religious texts. I don’t think God was so selfish as to create only “one true religion”, why not have multiple religions/beliefs that will all lead to Him?
~V
[quote]pookie wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
I said genetic mutation isn’t beneficial in the real world - IT’S NOT! I don’t care what anybody says
I don’t want to restart the argument with you, but if you’re interested on how those “random mutations” fit into natural selection and evolution, I’d propose the book “The Blind Watchmaker” by Richard Dawkins.
Is is one of the best explanation of the mechanism of evolution through mutations and natural selection.
You’re still free to dismiss it after reading it, but you’d better understand why it makes sense to so many people.
[/quote]
Thats my next book
Pookie, have you read any of Daniel Dennetts books.
I think you would find them helpful, tackling things no less than conciousness and evolution.
he certainly has a brain the size of a planet.
Blind watchmaker is my next one to read.
FED
You are right, mutations on their own are increadibly unlikely to be of benefit, but evolution has non random processes of natural selection modify that process.
This ensures that only the ones that are beneficial make it through. It also ensures that the changes are only LIKELY to be small, as large changes are improbable to work well, and may be out of step with other changes. These wont happen,
You will not, say, get an eye without the effective software back up.
Everything has to fit.
Either that or someone made the universe for school science project, or maybe we are a super computer for the calculation of the question to life, the universe and everything.
Atheism is not a philosophy or a view of the world; it?s simply a refusal to deny the obvious. - Sam Harris
[quote]chsbob wrote:
Atheism is not a philosophy or a view of the world; it?s simply a refusal to deny the obvious. - Sam Harris[/quote]
Being what…?
And forgive me, who was Sam Harris?
On the point of beneficial mutations, the gene mutation that causes sickle cell anemia also grants some immunity to bubonic plague. If you’re in a niche where plague is rampant, and you have that gene, then on the whole, that would be a net beneficial mutation for that niche. If you have the ‘normal’ gene, then you would be of benefit in the ‘normal’ situations, but not in a plague region.
[quote]zarathus wrote:
On the point of beneficial mutations, the gene mutation that causes sickle cell anemia also grants some immunity to bubonic plague. If you’re in a niche where plague is rampant, and you have that gene, then on the whole, that would be a net beneficial mutation for that niche. If you have the ‘normal’ gene, then you would be of benefit in the ‘normal’ situations, but not in a plague region.[/quote]
So why do people in “non-plague” areas get sickle cell. I know a young woman in my church who is dying of this at age 22. It is very sad. What evolutionary adaptation has caused this to befall this young lady?
Mutations are not beneficial on balance and have very bad effects.
Unfortunately, this thread has gotten off track.
Jesus Christ died for your sins. You cannot save yourself. Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus and you will be saved!
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
zarathus wrote:
On the point of beneficial mutations, the gene mutation that causes sickle cell anemia also grants some immunity to bubonic plague. If you’re in a niche where plague is rampant, and you have that gene, then on the whole, that would be a net beneficial mutation for that niche. If you have the ‘normal’ gene, then you would be of benefit in the ‘normal’ situations, but not in a plague region.
So why do people in “non-plague” areas get sickle cell. I know a young woman in my church who is dying of this at age 22. It is very sad. What evolutionary adaptation has caused this to befall this young lady?
Mutations are not beneficial on balance and have very bad effects.
Unfortunately, this thread has gotten off track.
Jesus Christ died for your sins. You cannot save yourself. Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus and you will be saved! [/quote]
You answer this for yourself. What will happen to that poor girl at Church. She will die. And her gene line dies out with her, unless she has a child, which means that as poor a fate may follow for him/her… If that happens to all sickle cell aneamics, then that is an evolutionary dead end, and that adaptation did not work out in the long term.
You are absolutely right, they are not normally good things. My sister has Axum Phelps syndrome, which is a mutation. One way it expresses itself is through blindness, and it is obvious that that is not a good thing. And long term it is unlikely to instill a benefit, unless like scickle cell, a disease rears its head in the future that people with AP survive it, and thus lead on to a line of people with AP. Then, it will become redundant again.
Just to point out, her belief isn’t helping her one iota, but maybe it gives her comfort.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
zarathus wrote:
On the point of beneficial mutations, the gene mutation that causes sickle cell anemia also grants some immunity to bubonic plague. If you’re in a niche where plague is rampant, and you have that gene, then on the whole, that would be a net beneficial mutation for that niche. If you have the ‘normal’ gene, then you would be of benefit in the ‘normal’ situations, but not in a plague region.
So why do people in “non-plague” areas get sickle cell. I know a young woman in my church who is dying of this at age 22. It is very sad. What evolutionary adaptation has caused this to befall this young lady?
Mutations are not beneficial on balance and have very bad effects.
Unfortunately, this thread has gotten off track.
Jesus Christ died for your sins. You cannot save yourself. Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus and you will be saved! [/quote]
Oh, sorry, i forgot this. It is genetic, you dont catch it, and it will pop up every now and then to ruin someones life.
U are a brainwashed moron and you turn to an invisible friend aka “jesus” or “god” when your weak mind needs help… Small children usually grow out of invisible friends by the age of 6… So become a real man and accept reality…BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH