Post Here To Accept Jesus Christ

[ZEB]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
ZEB wrote:

We are all sons of the creator but if people just thought of him as one of God’s sons that died not THE son, then the sacrifice is lessened in our human eyes.[/quote]

We can be adopted sons of God by accepting the sacrifice from his one and only son Jesus Christ!

John 3:16:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

The above passage is very clear and there are many others to back it up.

Jesus Christ was sent to show us a way of being, not necessarily to be a martyr…

You say he was not “necessarily to be a martyr.” But you see he died so that you and I could have eternal life through his great sacrifice.

If that is not a matyr then what is?

Since you STILL haven’t addressed my original contention(which was repeated in the second post as well), that these scriptures were in fact written by men and thus have human influence/bias on the message.

I did address it and will do so again:

If one particular “writer” stated something that was by itself off beat and not in line with the other “writers” then you might have a point.

However, as I already posted for you, every single book of the Bible (New testamnet) clearly states that Jesus Christ came to die for your sins. And that through your acceptance of this fact and acknowledging him as THE savior you are going to heaven.

Man wrote the book but God inspired it! And it is a work that flows and is consistent in every way.

Furthermore, there are som 300 predictions of Jesus Christs coming in the Old Testament.

It is very clear that there is only one way to the father and that is Jesus Christ! And the scripture backs that up in every book of the Bible!

[quote]What would be the point of Jesus Christ coming to earth if someone can be saved in so many other ways? It would have been illogical for God to send such a sacrifice if any other belief would do as well

Again Zeb you are trying to apply our human concept of logic to a power that is beyond all of this.[/quote]

I certainly don’t know the mind of God. And in fact it says in the Bible that no one knows the mind of God.

But I do know what his word says. And I do know that if you are going to make such a great sacrifice then it is for a reason!

Jesus Christ came to earth for a very important reason. And that reason was to save you and I from an eternity in hell.

And I have seen no other way to reach the father but through Jesus Christ!

Any religion that tells you any way is just fine and dandy is a FRAUD!

The early peoples that inhabited the earth did so with a reverence and symbiotic relationship to the earth which was God.

You are off base with that comment.

The earth is not God!

God created the earth, he is not THE earth.

We must never worship the created, just the creator!

As man became more “civilized” and started bastardizing the message. Ie. sacrificing humans as if that would appease the creator, or more recently swindling money and using politics, money, power to “spread the word of God” that is when the crator sees a need to send a messenger, a wake up call if you will that we have strayed from the path. It does not mean that these early cultures were wrong or not in heaven, because they are. It means that the beautiful relationship of god/nature was spoiled by human avarice and needed a new reminder.

To reduce Jesus Christs great sacrifice as a mere reminder is quite wrong minded.

Jesus Christ is THE word!

And he came to sacrifice his life so that you could live an eternal life with him in heaven.

Please take our your Bible and do some reading my friend.

This however isn’t good enough in your eyes and as you have so righteously stated is wrong and dangerous.

This is not my opinion. If I were to voice the way I think things ought to be we would be having a very different conversation. However, according to the scriptures you are very very wrong!

You see EVERY major religion has a holy book that they say is the word of God.

And they are wrong!

You see someone is right and someone is wrong in the quest for eternal life.

All of these books were written by men. All of them when boiled down to the message have the same meaning. The creator is fine with that.

Yes, they were written by men. But only the Bible was the inspired word of God.

And by the way, how do you know that “the creator is fine with that?”

You make huge assumptions …based on what?

How you feel?

simply your opinion?

And that’s all well and good. But, make sure that you know it is simply your opinion and not based upon anything that you have ever read in the Bible.

In other words, don’t confuse the two.

Men are way too different in various parts of a city, much less all over the world to agree on one standard way.

Christianity began with only a few disciples. It is currently the largest most important relgion in the world with about 2.1 billion Christians! And it has reached practically every part of the world.

Souls are being saved every day.

As the Bible states, there is only one way to the father and that is through Jesus Christ!

The trouble starts when you say “See you’re wrong cause my book says you’re wrong and my book says that my guy is the right one and the only one, so your religion is pointless and meaningless cause you’ll never get to heaven like me, nah na nah na”

Tell me why was Jesus Christ killed?

Do you know why Paul was crucified upside down?

Do you know what other disciples have been executed and or beaten?

They were killed, beaten and imprisoned because the world did not want to hear that there is only ONE WAY TO THE FATHER!

If you are attacking me for saying the truth, I thank you, as I am in the best of company (even though I don’t deserve to be).

I would never presume to tell another being that their view is wrong.

The next time a good friend of yours has to much to drink and wants to drive home…will you tell him he’s wrong? Or will you let him drive home and ignore the situation?

Sometimes telling someone they are wrong is a huge favor to that indivdual. And when it comes to eternal life…there can be no better tiem for correction!

If I don’t tell you and others right now which path is true, what good am I?

Some are driving straight to hell and they only have so much time to turn it around.

Exactly, when it comes to your attempt to worship our father, all it looks for is your belief in “it” and your best attempt at living in a just, compassionate way and asking for forgiveness for your mistakes.

First of all you cannot live good enought to please God. I hope that you know this. You, like me are a sinner. We are all sinners.

There is only one way to avoid the punishment for that sin. That is through Jesus Christ!

If Jesus Christ is cut out of the equation all we have is a cute little philosophy and not much else.

This might make you a better person, but not a perfect person.

And that my friend will NOT get you into heaven.

You can keep all the dogma, rituals, etc. The creator doens’t need it, although it is amusing the lengths of which we humans will go in order to try and appease something that already has forgiven and loves us.

Jeus was not much on dogma either. However, without Jesus Christ we are NOT forgiven of our sins.

But I wouldn’t call that “church dogma.” I call it spiritual truth!

For the record political correctness is the lamest shit ever. If you’re short, you’re short, not “vertically challenged”. Say what you mean. People have become total bitches when it comes to saying what is what. The democrats seem to be the worst at this one.

I agree. But political correctness is also all about not telling another that they are wrong in any way shape or form. It’s about total acceptance of everyone and everything.

And that is DANGEROUS.

[quote]At the same time I recognize the very similiar teachings of the buddha and can see how those in a different part of the world can get the same message without having to convert to my way of thinking.
I understand this is not your way.[/quote]

Buddhism is a very nice philosophy. I have studied it in the past. And have respect for it’s main truths.

However, believing in this as a way to achieve eternal life is simply foolhardy

And as a point of fact: Buddha never said he was God!

Nor, did he say that by following his teachings you would achieve eternal life.

He meant it as a way to have a more hapyy and peacful life.

If you don’t warn people about this truth what good are you doing for your fellow man?

If YOU do not tell them they are wrong who will?

I can assure after many talks with the divine that your narrow sightedness won’t keep you from salvation but it will make you come back to learn more humility.

Is this some sort of allusion to reincarnation?

Where does it talk about reincarnation in the Bible?

You say you accept Jesus Christ as the savior yet you have this belief as well?

Are you sure?

As the Bible says we are to live once and be judged! Those who have accepted Christ escape this judgement.

I would never say the Bible is full of lies. I have said repeatedly though, that the words are written by man and thus have human influence(with all its flaws) and therefore if you try to see the Bible as a word for word interpretation as though these guys were taking dictation from God and added nothing of their own influence, then you get into this my book is better than yours bs.

Okay…perhaps “lies” was too strong of a word.

Let me rephrase it: Why would you pay attention to any book with so many errors?

Do you have low standards regarding all books that you read, or just the Bible?

If the Bible is wrong (because they are only men with no divine inspiration, in your opinion) then why accept Jesus Christ at all?

If you don’t think that he was cricified died and was buried. And after three days rose again in bodily form then the message is either a lie (which you deny) or it’s so badly mangled that it’s simply a bunch of words thrown together on pages written by men who are not very accurate with their wirtings…

So why do you accept Christ?

There are beautiful messages(and very similiar ones I might add) in all the major religious texts.

Don’t stop there!

There are plenty of very wonderful works by hundreds of great writers.

I have read some and enjoy them.

But, there is only one work that is inspired by God and which claims that Jesus Christ is the son of God and died for your sins.

And there is only one man who claimed to be the only way to the father, who performed such miracles, died and rose again to pay the price for your sins!

If you accept him as your savior you will spend enternity in heaven with the father.

No other religious figure who ever lived claimed to be the only way to the father. And did the things that Jesus did including dying and rising from the dead.

But I do understand (as the Bible states) Narrow is the gate to salvation and wide is the path to destruction…

Make sure that YOU are on the right road.

People get into trouble when they take things SO literally.

In the case fo Jesus Chirst, people will get into trouble for not taking his message literally!

Seriously when you and SteveO spout off the scripture as though you have all the answers and that the word of the Bible is not open to interpretation and that every other religion in the world is wrong, you come off as zealots.

Thank you.

Jesus was killed and many disciples were also either killed, beaten or imprisioned because they said the same thing.

Hence, while not fit to even be mentioned in the same breath as so many great Christians…we are still in good company. And I thank you again for bringing this up.

Again, it’s not a popular message with some.

But that does not negate the fact that it is indeed the truth.

[quote]I think you are a good person Zeb and I do look forward to seeing you at a BBQ in heaven or something like that and ribbing you for taking things way too literally. At which point you can get flustered and challenge me to a pull up contest;]
[/quote]

I might be able to do several hundred in a row in heaven! For now I have to be happy with 40 strict dead hangs.

But seriously, where did you get your philosophy?

You alluded to reincarnation.

What books did you read in order to come up with your basic doctrine?

Thanks for the conversation.

Zeb

[storey420]

Thank you for your detailed response Zeb. I will definitely answer all your questions and comment on your insights. I am at work so it may take a bit;]
How do you make the old comments grey and the answers bold? I thought I had it down but it appears not!

[haney]

[quote]orion wrote:
I came across the fact that the fifth book of Moses was conveniently “discovered” during a time of political turmoil, conveniently supporting Joshuas ideas…
[/quote]

I have never heard nor seen this care to post a source?

Call me a cynic…

no need to.

Talmudic rabbis had their doubts early on and modern text anylysis puts the era of its production in or around Joshuas reign.

You know he was Moses apprentice right? His era is Moses era.

Combine this with the fact that the Bible was compiled hundreds of years after Jesus death and that there must have been more than 4 people that had written Jesus story down, I not only wonder what went in there and why, but also what is missing and why.

The OT cannon was formed long before the “completion of the Bible” so the only argument would be against the NT.

As far as Augustin goes, he had no problems to use violence against people he comsidered to be heretics or schismatics, I do not think I got that wrong.

Sources?

[quote]
When it comes to the Dark Ages, you argue as if the Christian Faith had nothing to do with their times or were corrupted by it, though you could argue that the Dark Ages ended when people were beginning to free themselves from Christian dogma, i.e. the Ages were dark because of Christian faith, not in spite of it. [/quote]

I think you have a few things mischaracterized. The Church had no real power until we took over Rome. It seems that governement spoiled christianity. In more poetic terms absolute power corrupts absolutely.

When men found that they could weild enormous power through government, or Church election that is when you had the creation of the Dark ages. Dogma is dogma. I don’t defend it, and I don’t like it. The early church had none of the things that the later corrupted church had. You are comparing apples to oranges in this case.

once again though show me where Christ, Peter, or Paul advocated violence in the NT.

[ZEB]

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Thank you for your detailed response Zeb. I will definitely answer all your questions and comment on your insights. I am at work so it may take a bit;]
How do you make the old comments grey and the answers bold? I thought I had it down but it appears not![/quote]

Use this: one bracket [ on each side of the word quote.

But make sure you use a slash> / at the beginning of the word quote> /quote to end the quote.

Does that make any sense?

Or am I as bad at explaining this as I am convincing people about Christ?

I suck at evangelism…

[ZEB]

[quote]haney wrote:
once again though show me where Christ, Peter, or Paul advocated violence in the NT.

[/quote]

I think the interesting part about this is that they advocated the opposite!

In fact some were upset that Jesus did not come to lead a rebellion.

[orion]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
once again though show me where Christ, Peter, or Paul advocated violence in the NT.

I think the interesting part about this is that they advocated the opposite!

In fact some were upset that Jesus did not come to lead a rebellion.

[/quote]

I do not necessarily need to show that.

The Bible, as a document of absolute authority can be made responsible for the conclusions that are a necessary consequence of its claims or commandments.

If you “should not suffer a witch to live” what would you conclude from that.

And, what is even more important, if someone claims that there are no witches he

a) accuses the Church of a horrible crime, which is in itself reason enough to burn, and

b) contradicts the word of God, to undermine the efforts of the Holy Inquisition…

Guess what the punishment for that was.

So, the argument you won?t find it exclicitly there or there is irrelevant if it contains the seed of violence implicitly.

[orion]

It would be a bit like modern hate preachers (including the non-religious) that give you all the arguments and the last conclusion, to become violent, you have to draw for yourself.

That way, they cover their (spiritual) asses.

[haney]

[quote]orion wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
once again though show me where Christ, Peter, or Paul advocated violence in the NT.

I think the interesting part about this is that they advocated the opposite!

In fact some were upset that Jesus did not come to lead a rebellion.

I do not necessarily need to show that.

The Bible, as a document of absolute authority can be made responsible for the conclusions that are a necessary consequence of its claims or commandments.

If you “should not suffer a witch to live” what would you conclude from that.

And, what is even more important, if someone claims that there are no witches he

a) accuses the Church of a horrible crime, which is in itself reason enough to burn, and

b) contradicts the word of God, to undermine the efforts of the Holy Inquisition…

Guess what the punishment for that was.

So, the argument you won?t find it exclicitly there or there is irrelevant if it contains the seed of violence implicitly.

[/quote]

in other words you can’t show that. You can only promote that idea.

You sound like the very literalist people that you are against.

[steveo5801]

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
You wish to make this out to be like academics. It is not. If you are totally blinded in your HEART to the truth, you cannot understand it. You have to WANT IT to understand it.

Could you find a quote in the Bible to support this little self-belief of yours?[/quote]

Verse #1:

?But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. ?But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. ?For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. ?Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ?Which things also we speak, not in the words which man?s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. ?But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
?But he that is spiritual judgeth? all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. ?For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Cor. 2:9-16

Verse #2:

?But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) ?Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) ?But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; ?That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. ?For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. ?For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. ?For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. ?For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:6-13 [quote]

Vroom, on the basis of the teaching of Jesus and upon the Word of God, you are an unrepentant sinner, you are on your way to a Christless and Godless Hell where you will be:

Funny, I didn’t see Jesus mention me anywhere in the Bible. Funny how you’d think you know this. Calling you an idiot or an asshole does not in fact make me an unrepentant.[/quote]

Sure it does – Jesus said that what comes out of the mouth reveals the HEART. Your spewing of venom – which by the way, I could care less about – reveals something evil about your wicked heart. The Bible says that ALL of US – if you are human that includes you too – are sinners and need salvation. Your actions – in this case what you write – show that you have an “evil heart of unbelief,” and the Bible warns that a man in that condition is lost and bound for Hell.[quote]

(1) Alone in the outer darkness of nothing.

(2) You will be eternally separated from God and all of your loved ones and everyone else for that matter.

(3) Your body will be on fire for eternity, but will not consume itself. You will feel agony for ever and ever.

(4) You will be screaming on the top of your lungs and grinding your teeth for pain, for ever and ever.

Hell, my friend, is very real. Jesus paid for your sins. If you don’t accept his free gift, you will have to pay for your own sins.

Enjoy your time there.
[/quote]

Sorry, I will not be there. I will be spending eternity in the joy of my Lord!

How 'bout you, Vroom?

[steveo5801]

[quote]vroom wrote:
As I have said it’s not just by one mans writing. Every single book (of the Bible) when speaking of being saved, speaks of only ONE WAY, and that is through faith in Jesus Christ!

That in turn makes other ways WRONG!

Yeah, and Jesus himself said it was enough to live by the rules (just don’t be rich).

Strange, isn’t it?

Assuming of course you trust that his words were accurately portrayed.[/quote]

You know better than that! Jesus never ever said that at all. He said over and over again in the N.T. that a person needs to believe on Him and Him alone for salvation. Read John 3 for example – in fact read the entire Gospel of John and then read Paul’s masterpiece letter to the Romans where it clearly states on several occasions that a man is “not justified by the works of the Law.”

So, what are you talking about, Vroom? You are really out of your league here. I suggest that you stop posting, get a cup of coffee or whatever you drink up there, and READ THE BIBLE. Then comment on this thread. Quite frankly, you have nothing to contribute here.

[steveo5801]

[quote]silencer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
silencer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

silencer wrote

And you’re telling me the Hewbrew scripture is the FIRST word to mankind? So what about the billions of people who lived before then? Are they all going to hell? Was God quiet for tens of thousands of years, not caring about guiding all those people, until suddenly he decided he should guide the people?

with the truth bringing good news and giving warning. There is no community to which a warner has not come. (Qur’an, 35: 24)

We have sent you We sent a Messenger among every people saying: “Worship God and keep clear of all false gods…” (Qur’an 16:36)

Prove to me that only the Christians will go to Heaven. Prove to me that when Jesus says he’s the only way to God,he’s addressing every person in every time and place, and not just the people he was sent to.

There were no “thousands of years” befoe Genesis 1:1 – In the beginning God…" .

No thousands of years, no people – nothing. God made the universe out of nothing and gave us the Hebrew Scriptures that gives manking everything they need for life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3).

As for proving – all I can say is that Jesus (the Son of God) said that He was the only way.

You can take the writings of man (many thousands of years AFTER Genesis 1:1 occurred – remember Islam is a very recent religion as compared to Judaism – I will take God at His Word. .

Should we believe Jehovah’s Witnessess just because someone “invented” a religion in the 1800’s?

I am sorry to say, that if Christianity’s clamims are correct – Islam and every other man made religion is false. You cannot have “Christ is the only way,” and then have other ways.

One God – One Way! Jesus Christ!

YOU must be born again!

What? Who was Genesis revealed to? Is it not supposed to have been revealed to Moses? So what happens to all the people between Adam and Moses? [/quote]

Moses wrote the Torah – God revealed it to Him and that’s all one needs to know.[quote]

you know humanity has been on earth for tens of thousands of years… are you gonna tell me all the fossil records and all that we have saying humans have been here for thousands of years is false? [/quote]

Thousands of years – as 6,000 to 10,000 – that I’ll buy. Longer than that, I KNOW its false!

Again, you can trust old rocks, I’ll place my trust in the ONE, TRUE, LIVING God – the GOD OF ISRAEL![quote]

i cant prove to you simply from the Koran that Islam is correct any more than you can prove to me from the Bible that christianity is correct. Islam is not just about having faith, there is a path to certainty…

as the Prophet’s cousin Ali said,

“Islam is surrender, and surrender is certitude; certitude is authentication, and authentication is assurance; assurance is realization, and realization is work.”

and he said “even if the veils were removed from me, it would not increase me in certainty a single bit”. That is because he did not just have faith, he had certainity. And so I, as well, have certainty.

anyway, this is a thread for christians, and I feel like an intruder by posting here. I dont want to sound like those christians who attack islam incessantly online. i’m not like that. so im gonna stop posting on this thread.

“To you be your religion, and to me mine.”[/quote]

Interesting – in the Koran: “The prophets cousin said…” who cares?

The Bible: “God said;” “God spake;” “The Lord God said,” etc.

See the difference? I could care what man says and their made up religions.

You take Mohammed and I’ll take God!

[steveo5801]

[quote]vroom wrote:
JPBear wrote:
In the story you are referring to, Jesus spoke this way to the rich young ruler in order to humble him, since he falsely thought he was without sin. Jesus tried to show him the depth of God?s standard.

See, this is conversation, and I appreciate it JP.

What we have here, in my opinion, is an interpretation. When I read the passage I saw someone asking a question, and Jesus then answered that question.

I don’t think we can make such inferences into the mindset of the person asking the question or of Jesus either.

The Bible is a series of writings of witnesses during that era. Those witnesses were regular human beings and have the same faults and flaws as all of us. Perhaps more so given the advancements in education available to the common citizen of today.

My interpretation is a bit different than yours. I feel that Jesus is saying that you must live by the rules, in your heart, and do all you can to live by them. He acknowledges that we all fail at times, as all of us are sinners.

However, I think his messages concerning money having nothing to do with humbling a rich ruler. Go back in time. He is telling them, that to let their neighbors starve and go hungry, while you, the rich live in comfort and do nothing for them, that is wrong.

You cannot amass wealth and ignore the suffering of your fellow man and get to heaven, according to Jesus.

My interpretation is that Jesus saw a lot of ills in the world, and he was speaking to people about how they should be behaving, what they should be doing. He said to be good to everyone, to treat everyone well, to look after one another.

You are welcome to have a different view of his purpose on Earth, or to suggest that there are different interpretations of his words. However, while on Earth he was a man, he spoke to men, men tried to fathom his meaning and wrote down what he said.

Later, other men voted on which writings to include in the Bible, and we view the past through the lenses of other peoples eyes. We have to be careful to try to understand the life and times to know what they meant when they said things.

Humans have a tendency to diefy things, such as the president and his administration, and I suggest that there is inappropriate dieficiation of the words of men when we think of the Bible as the ultimate word of God. It is a message that we can think on to guide us.

If you want to try to convince me that there is more, that is fine, I am happy to debate portions of scripture or whatever. However, please don’t spout unthinking diatribes and turn the Bible into an object of idolatry as Steveo does.

He’s on a bad path.[/quote]

OK Vroom debate this:

“Jesus said, I am THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE, no man [i.e. nobody] comes to the Father EXCEPT BY [through] me.”

This clearly shows that Jesus claimed to be the ONLY WAY to God.

Let the debate begin!

[hspder]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
This clearly shows that Jesus claimed to be the ONLY WAY to God.[/quote]

Not really. The Bible is as vague, contradictoriy and open to interpretation on that as on anything else;

What must you do to be saved?

Just do the right things?

• And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. – John 5:29
• For you render to each one according to his works. – Psalm 62:12
• I the Lord … give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. – Jeremiah 17:10
• When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness … and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. – Ezekiel 18:27
• For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27
• Who will render to each one according to his deeds. … For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. – Romans 2:6, 13
• For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. – 2 Corinthians 5:10
• Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. – 2 Corinthians 11:15
• The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work. – 1 Peter 1:17
• I will give unto every one of you according to your works. – Revelation 2:23
• And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. – Revelation 20:12-13

Just believe the right things?

• A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. – Galatians 2:16
• For by grace are ye saved through faith. – Ephesians 2:8
• … that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. – Jn.3:16
• He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life – John 3:36
• Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. – Acts 16:31
• Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. – John 3:3
• He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life. – John 5:24
• Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. – John 3:5
• Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. – Titus 3:5
• He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. – Mark 16:16

Just call upon the name of the Lord?

• Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. – Acts 2:21
• If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. – Romans 10:9

Just follow the commandments (at least some of them)?

• If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. – Matthew 19:17-19
• Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. – Revelation 22:14
• Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. – Revelation 14:12
• He that endureth to the end shall be saved. – Matthew 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13

Ah, and, remember: Be poor, not rich.

• Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. – Matthew 19:23-24
• But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. – Luke 6:24
• Ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. – James 5:1

[hspder]

Oh, and since we’re talking about contradictions, how about this one:

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

VS.

Mark 16:15
Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

AND

Acts 16:6
Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia.

VS.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

[hspder]

Maybe all the contradictions are because the Bible is just inspired by God – much like Law & Order episodes are just inspired by true stories…

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God…

1 Corinthians 7:12.:
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:25
Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment…

[silencer]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

Interesting – in the Koran: “The prophets cousin said…” who cares?

The Bible: “God said;” “God spake;” “The Lord God said,” etc.

See the difference? I could care what man says and their made up religions.

You take Mohammed and I’ll take God!

[/quote]

WHAT!!! ok i said i’m not posting again but i have to say this. I DID NOT say the Qur’an quotes the Prophet’s cousin. That quote is from a collection of the sayings of the Prophet’s cousin… NOT from the Qur’an. The Qur’an is only the direct words of God to mankind. It is the New Testament that is a collection of what people saw and heard about Jesus. So how could it be the word of God?

[steveo5801]

[quote]hspder wrote:
Oh, and since we’re talking about contradictions, how about this one:

Matthew 10:5-6
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

VS.

Mark 16:15
Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

AND

Acts 16:6
Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia.

VS.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

[/quote]

The short – “I am rushing to leave for work” answer to what you are trying to point out:

(1) Jesus first came “unto His own” – the nation of Israel. Therefore, the apostles were FIRST to go ONLY to Israel, because Jesus was offering the Kingdom to Israel as predicted in the O.T.

(2) When Israel (nationally) rejected Him (see Isaiah 53) then the Kingdom was opened up to the Gentiles – “now go to everyone, including Gentiles.”

(3) All Scripture must be compared to Scripture – in other words, when you find a verse that seems not to fit, our job is not to “throw the baby out with the bathwater,” but to recognize that if God wrote the book, it cannot have “contradictions.”

(4) All Scritpure is for us, but not Scripture is about us. There are portions that only deal with Israel, for example. There are different dispensations of time that God has dealt with mankind. You have to resist taking one verse here and one verse there and say, “aha, it is all wrong.”

Again, you have found commands that deal with different situations for Biblical reasons. NO CONTRADICTIONS HERE!

[steveo5801]

[quote]hspder wrote:
Maybe all the contradictions are because the Bible is just inspired by God – much like Law & Order episodes are just inspired by true stories…

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God…

1 Corinthians 7:12.:
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:25
Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment…

[/quote]

But what do you do with Jesus’ statement that “I am THE WAY…” etc. Just ignore it?

[orion]

Augustinus and torture/violence:

He advised the then allready Christian state to use force against the sect of the Donatists with quoting Lukas 14, 15-24.

You should be able to find that in several of his works K.H.Chelius 1986-94, p.1084f…

Or any book about the Inquisition…

He argued for the use of light punishment, like flagellation and banishment, only in severe cases would he support the death penalty.

He is the father of the argument that torturing the mortal body to save the immortal soul is an act of Christian love.

Now it gets interesting:

Torture only damages the human body, whereas heretics are much worse, because by leading people away from the one true faith they kill their eternal souls.

Insofar, and that is the next logical step (I do not know if Augustinus himself ever took it), it makes sense to find those heretics before they can spread their teachings, poisoning the souls of true believers and condemning them to an eternal death.

Voila, the Holy Inquisition.

Makes perfect sense, doesn?t it? We have laws in the books that are much less reasonable. It all flows from having accepted the Bible and Jesus as the one and only way to God, the rest follows allmost inevitably.

[orion]

Joshua and the Deuteronomy

Josuha was an Israelian king of the Kingdom of Juda that was able to conquer large parts of the former northern Israelian kingdom, after the Assyrian empire had been significantly weakened.

There were several place sof whorship back then, Joshua destroyed them all.

Around that time, his high priest, Hilkiah , while “renovating” the temple, “found” the Deuteronomy, which though no in name, seemed to strongly suggest that the Temple in Jerusalem was the be the one and only Ueber-temple.

This Joshua cannot have been Moses apprentice, because Moses was long dead then. Joshua (=Jesus) was a pretty common name though.

Knock yourself out:

Book of Deuteronomy