[quote]ZEB wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
This is where I disagree with Steveo and Zeb.
“Eternal Hell” is a myth.
Don’t be deceived!
Jesus Christ spoke of Hell more than he did Heaven![/quote]
He was so negative.
Talk up the good side, i say.
Positive reinforcent!
[quote]hspder wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
The pope also needs to be saved!
1 BILLION Catholics beg to differ.
You seem to believe you can get away with just about anything. So let’s do this:
If you have the balls to go to the Vatican, and say, to the Pope’s face, that he is NOT saved already, and post a video recording (of you doing that) on the Internet, you have my solemn word that I will Accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior – because, honestly, only the power of a God working through you would give you the guts to do that.
Seriously, I am not kidding. Do that and I WILL believe. It’s proof enough for me.
[/quote]
So because billions of people believe in a tradition, that makes it right? The Bible warns against this.
Jesus said “straight is the gate narrow is the path” which means FEW WILL BE SAVED.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Already done!
Next objection…
[/quote]
What do you mean?
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
I would reconsider my position on this Emu, since if you don’t believe in Hell, you are in effect calling Jesus a liar.
[b][i]
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. ?And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 8: 8-9
[/b][/i]
In these verses – and there are many many others that you could look at, Jesus is speaking and equates “everlasting fire” with “hell fire.”
Everlasting = forever!
Therefore, you must rethink your false beliefs, or just come out and call Jesus a liar.
Can’t have it both ways…
Also look at: Luke 16: 19-21. This is also a teaching directly from the lips of the Lord on Hell.
[/quote]
Steveo,
Everlasting fire as in it will last for all eternity, as in your soul will be burned out of existence for all eternity.
I’m starting to question the way you go about preaching the Bible. Because I have a different belief on a topic in the Bible, you automatically say that I am calling Jesus a liar?
I could say the same thing about you.
Jesus also said that only people who believe in him will have the gift of eternal life.
HOW COULD THIS BE IF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SAVED HAVE AN ETERNAL LIFE IN HELL?
Why are you putting words in my mouth?
[quote]haney wrote:
Yeah, but he didn’ speak much of either.
Hell is only mentioned 23 times in the entire NT.[/quote]
I was under the impression that there are over 162 references in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) which warn of Hell.
Over 70 of these references are attributed to Jesus.
Either way, it’s mentioned enough times.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
If, as you say, the Catholic faith, is the “true” Christianity, surely its teachings would be in the Bible. Right?
[/quote]
I don’t remember saying that, probably because I didn’t. Like I said before you are obviously some kid who sits at his PC with his dick out wanking over all the disruption you cause on forums like this.
Personally I buzz off it, I think you are so sad its amusing. I would not be surprised if you are just an alter ago of Zeb as you use the same format for posting and replies and the bold thing.
If anyones’s being unchristian bud its you, because you are judging everyone, and as the bible says, yadadada that’s God’s job.
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
HELL IS NOT A PLACE THAT PEOPLE GO TO.
[/quote]
I’m sorry but you are misinformed.
Hell is indeed a place. And in that place is enternal torment.
“Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE…”
Jesus says of the man in Luke 16:
23 "And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in TORMENT. . . "
24 “. . . for I am TORMENTED in this FLAME.”
28 “. . .PLACE OF TORMENT.”
The Bible further describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, “Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels.”
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: “And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
There are even more scriptures that point to the fact that Hell is a real place. And in that place you will suffer eternal torment.
Please do not be deceived by those leading you in the wrong direction!
[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
If, as you say, the Catholic faith, is the “true” Christianity, surely its teachings would be in the Bible. Right?
I don’t remember saying that, probably because I didn’t. Like I said before you are obviously some kid who sits at his PC with his dick out wanking over all the disruption you cause on forums like this.[/quote]
More insults, put downs and personal attacks from stig…
Another paragraph of personal put downs. And more hate, but nothing else.
Stig, as I asked in my first post on this thread. What does the other side have to offer in place of this?
If you as a Catholic Christian have a better way then please save your insults they accomplish nothing, and put forth your own ideas.
Thank you.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
Yeah, but he didn’ speak much of either.
Hell is only mentioned 23 times in the entire NT.
I was under the impression that there are over 162 references in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) which warn of Hell.
Over 70 of these references are attributed to Jesus.
Either way, it’s mentioned enough times.
[/quote]
Yeah you would think it would be in there more times, but 23 is it…
Heaven is only mentioned 250 times in the entire Bible (OT and NT)
[quote]ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that we agree: Hell would be an awful place to be![/quote]
I would agree I wouldn’t want to go there.
Once again though I think the literal flames are a mistake that the modern church holds.
[quote]haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that we agree: Hell would be an awful place to be!
I would agree I wouldn’t want to go there.
Once again though I think the literal flames are a mistake that the modern church holds.[/quote]
The Greek word for “fire” is “pur.”
For example in Matthew 18:9 Jesus says:
"And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
There are of course several references to “fire.”
What are you basing your interpretation on. If not “literal” then what is meant by “pur” or in english “fire?”
[quote]ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that we agree: Hell would be an awful place to be!
I would agree I wouldn’t want to go there.
Once again though I think the literal flames are a mistake that the modern church holds.
The Greek word for “fire” is “pur.”
For example in Matthew 18:9 Jesus says:
"And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
There are of course several references to “fire.”
What are you basing your interpretation on. If not “literal” then what is meant by “pur” or in english “fire?”
[/quote]
My interpretation is based off of the Bible be descriptive in nature.
For example does Satan look like a
Dragon, roaring lion, or a serpant?
Or is it required that our faith be the actual size of a mustard seed?
Does God really fly on the wings of Angels?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Dr. Stig wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
If, as you say, the Catholic faith, is the “true” Christianity, surely its teachings would be in the Bible. Right?
I don’t remember saying that, probably because I didn’t. Like I said before you are obviously some kid who sits at his PC with his dick out wanking over all the disruption you cause on forums like this.
More insults, put downs and personal attacks from stig…
Personally I buzz off it, I think you are so sad its amusing. I would not be surprised if you are just an alter ago of Zeb as you use the same format for posting and replies and the bold thing.
Another paragraph of personal put downs. And more hate, but nothing else.
Stig, as I asked in my first post on this thread. What does the other side have to offer in place of this?
If you as a Catholic Christian have a better way then please save your insults they accomplish nothing, and put forth your own ideas.
Thank you.
[/quote]
Ok, Ok, I’m catholic by default. I just like crossing swords with people like you, its not internet hatred/hardmanship because I tend to do this in real life too. Its just inconvenient because we are in different countries.
But then again in ‘real life’ if I was sounding off to you and SteveO I think there would be a good case of bystander apathy than the fiery rhetoric you have displayed using your keyboard.
I bid you good day, or whatever it is you SUV driving sinners get up to in the Colonies.
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
So because billions of people believe in a tradition, that makes it right?[/quote]
Of course not. I’m not a Catholic either. Do not distort my words. My complaint here is simply the lack of respect I’m seeing for other people’s beliefs. One does not have to agree in order to respect.
[quote]haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that we agree: Hell would be an awful place to be!
I would agree I wouldn’t want to go there.
Once again though I think the literal flames are a mistake that the modern church holds.
The Greek word for “fire” is “pur.”
For example in Matthew 18:9 Jesus says:
"And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
There are of course several references to “fire.”
What are you basing your interpretation on. If not “literal” then what is meant by “pur” or in english “fire?”
My interpretation is based off of the Bible be descriptive in nature.
For example does Satan look like a
Dragon, roaring lion, or a serpant?
Or is it required that our faith be the actual size of a mustard seed?
Does God really fly on the wings of Angels?
[/quote]
Very good point Haney.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
HELL IS NOT A PLACE THAT PEOPLE GO TO.
I’m sorry but you are misinformed.
Hell is indeed a place. And in that place is enternal torment.
“Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE…”
Jesus says of the man in Luke 16:
23 "And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in TORMENT. . . "
24 “. . . for I am TORMENTED in this FLAME.”
28 “. . .PLACE OF TORMENT.”
The Bible further describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, “Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels.”
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: “And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
There are even more scriptures that point to the fact that Hell is a real place. And in that place you will suffer eternal torment.
Please do not be deceived by those leading you in the wrong direction![/quote]
Zeb,
none of these scriptures say that we will live forever in hell. Why did Jesus say that the only people who will have eternal life are those who are saved? How then are the unsaved also given eternal life? Please answer this.
The unsaved will be thrown into hell fire. Haven’t you heard of hell fire? God calles fire down from heaven (the sky) and all the unsaved will be burned and tormented in hell fire for as long as God feels they deserve (5 minutes, an hour, I don’t know, only God does). Then after that, there souls will no longer exist. It is eternal. Being seperated from God and not having the gift of eternal life is eternal torment.
There is nothing that a person could do, no matter how horrific it is, to deserve to be burned for an eternity. A loving God would NEVER let this happen. Think about it. You check back 900 billion years from the time they went to the “place” called hell and there is so and so, still burning in pain and agony.
This is what scares people away from Christianity. Jesus said few will be saved. A lot fewer than most think, very very few. Why then is it hard for you to believe that most people are going to be decieved by false teachings. That would make what I am trying to say to you a belief that the very few minority uphold.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
You don’t care if God exists. It matters not one way or the other to you. As you see no benefit in the here and now or the hereafter.
Do I have that right?[/quote]
…the here and now, as in this very moment, is all there is Zeb, and i’ve said nothing about this very moment. I’ll say something about the hereafter though; there is nothing that suggests there is such a thing and i don’t see any reason to live my life as if there is a herefafter…
…yes, it can get confusing, can’t it? One last time then; i do not entertain any belief about the existence, or non-existence, of [any] god…
…you are right, i can’t know that. There is a difference between this and a belief though, and that is i don’t value the notion at all. As words will always fail to describe an infinite being, a sentence like ‘a circle without a centre’ is nonsense…
…you believe a book to be the word of god, and you think you know what is meant by those words. Big deal…
…i don’t know if you can call it faith, there isn’t even a similar word in dutch but something that is as obvious as life is, and all it contains, brings a kind of certainty to existing that needs no beliefs, nor religion…
…i thing Hitler was human, not a monster. In 1943 the american secret service compiled, for the first time ever, a psychological profile of Hitler: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/timewatch/diary_mind_hitler_01.shtml The man responsible for this profile was able to predict very accurately what was most likely to happen to Hitler in an event of Germanies defeat. More importantly though, he showed a man that was deeply tormented and twisted, but very human…
…after seeing the documentaire i concluded that Hitler projected his hate and disgust for his father on the Jewish people. His father actually looked alot like that jewish archetype you can see on propaganda posters of the time. By exterminating the jews he tried to exterminate his father…
…his mother on the other hand was the epitome of all that was pure and loving; the arian ideal. A-sexual [yet fascinated by his niece] and a cleanfreak Hitler superimposed this ideal on everything German believing, as he was the only surviving boy of 3 previous children, he had a divine mission…
…every time i see footage from when the concentration camps were liberated my heart bleeds for mankind. Hitler wasn’t the real monster, the man and woman in the street is capable of monsterous acts even more so. This is not different from what happens in nature though, and give people the right justifications [and religion is very good at that] people will commit all kinds of atrocities. It’s in our nature because nature isn’t moral, and the sooner we can accept that then perhaps it won’t happen again…
…it’s not about your god and bible. It’s not about heaven or hell, it’s what you do and how you justify doing it. Conscience is a beautiful thing, follow that relentlessly and you can’t go wrong. Provided a level of sanity ofcourse…
…not interested, thank you…
…my source of truth is life itself. I don’t need a book or pastor to tell me what i should do or behave like. I don’t fear death or life for that matter. I follow my heart without hesitation and if that is not enough, then it’s not enough, but for me it is…
…you take care aswell Zeb…
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Backwards thinking, my friend. It was God that brought Himself down to our level so that we might understand Him and have a personal relationship with Him.
God cares for us very much, but wants us to, on our own, come to Him in truth. If we do, He saves us, seals us, and keeps us unto the end.
You have it all backwards, since your assertions are not Biblical, yet you seem to despise the Bible.
YOU CANNOT HAVE A GOD OF YOUR OWN IMAGINATION!
[/quote]
…why not? It’s all you have…
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
It won’t be irrelevant to you one split-second after you die. Then it will be all too relevant, but all too late…
[/quote]
…if the afterlife means spending eternity with the like of you Steve, i’ll take oblivion every time…
[quote]haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that we agree: Hell would be an awful place to be!
I would agree I wouldn’t want to go there.
Once again though I think the literal flames are a mistake that the modern church holds.
The Greek word for “fire” is “pur.”
For example in Matthew 18:9 Jesus says:
"And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
There are of course several references to “fire.”
What are you basing your interpretation on. If not “literal” then what is meant by “pur” or in english “fire?”
My interpretation is based off of the Bible be descriptive in nature.
For example does Satan look like a
Dragon, roaring lion, or a serpant?
Or is it required that our faith be the actual size of a mustard seed?
Does God really fly on the wings of Angels?
[/quote]
Oh I agree some things are stated metaphorically. But others are not. And it seems that hell is mentioned as a place of fire many times, and not (to my estimation) metaphorically. In fact, it seems more descriptive.
However, I could be wrong. There are many out there who are far better than me at interpreting scripture. You could be one them.