Post Here To Accept Jesus Christ

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
492

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
haney wrote:
Take heart I don’t think Jesus was selling anyone. More or less stressing a hope in a God that actually cared.

Then again you knew that since you have said more than once JC had some great things to say. :slight_smile:

Damn right, brother! Anybody who spreads the word that helpfulness and service to others is a noble pursuit has my vote of confidence.

Definitely a cool guy except for the “I am the son of God” part. I can understand the piggybacking onto the Judaism myth of the messiah, however. That gets the message out – an audience who wants to believe that they are saved.

Of course, it pissed off the Jewish leadership, though. I guess they put him down as publicly and humiliatingly as possible to dissuade anybody from remembering the guy, and losing their own power.

Didn’t work = too many Jesus fanatics that could write. :)[/quote]

lol… you are actually spot on for the reasons why they chose that type of death.

In my opinion though it only strengthens my pov. After all a honor/shame society like the one they had finding many people to follow would seem very unlikely.

the bad part about basing your decisions off your opinion is that I now have to respect yours. :slight_smile:

stupid rules on engagement

493

[quote]ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:
ephrem wrote:

steveo5801 wrote:
Atheist: I will not believe your fairy tale! I believe in science.

You see, long, long ago and far far away, it rained upon the rocks, and the DNA seeped into the ocean and little “beasties” came out and started to swim. Well, millions an millions of years later, out popped Grandpa!

…no, it so much more logical and easier to believe that a supernatural being that exists out of time and space created us and the universe just so he can judge us and punish us if were not up to par. That really makes sense (-:

Did he create us “just so he could judge us?”

Not so my friend!

He did not create us FOR that reason.

If he had Jesus Christ never would have come to earth FOR us so that we could escape judgement.

But…WHY did God creat the whole thing?

You need to spend some time in the scripture to find that out.

…he never did create anything. He isn?t there. He only exists in your mind Zeb. That?s all…

[/quote]

He actually does exist, but He doesn’t exist in your mind because you have shut the door to your heart.

Open wide to God!

494

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
Fuck this topic. Anyone interested in the bible might wanna look here, however if you think this link is a bit ‘Gay’ then watch out for Steve O and all the other delusional smug bigot’s making obtuse judgements on your ass.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/

HAHA

[/quote]

So using 4-letter disgusting words is OK for a ‘real Christian?’ Seems a bit hypocritcal to me.

Better check that Bible of yours…

Oh, I am still waiting for the Scripture verses that show that Catholic teaching is Biblical…

495

[quote]ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:

Well, actually you don’t know if you are in the wrong or not do you? You are betting that you are not in the wrong. But, if there is a God…then you are in the wrong!

So we have to wait and see huh? As they say the jury is still out on that one.

…no see, this is where you’re wrong. The god issue does not matter to me, it’s his followers that sometimes annoy me. I’ll make this clear for you: Whether god exists or not is irrelevant to me… [/quote]

It won’t be irrelevant to you one split-second after you die. Then it will be all too relevant, but all too late…[quote]

I think I understand what you are saying here. But, what you might not understand is that you DO have a belief. And of course that belief is that there is no God.

And that IF of yours is the coatrack YOU hang everything from!

…sorry Zeb, you don’t have the luxury of telling me what i do or don’t believe. I do not believe there is no god, that is a rediculous statement. Why would i believe a negative?

I think that’s just a tad illogical. How do you know that an infinite being cannot possess a “selfimage?”

That’s not logical to assume is it?

…apply logic. We as humans have a selfimage. We as humans are limited in our perception. An infinite ‘being’ would not be limited and therefore possesses no selfimage. A circle without a centre. Consciousness unaware of itself. The eye does not see itself…

…you think that you understand the mind of your God?

Of course not. In fact, it’s in the Bible: no one uderstands the mind of God.

Did you read that there?

…then don’t allude to knowing your gods mind…

I’m not “hoping” that it’s true. As I have stated I have done research and also through my lifes events it has been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a God!

You on the other hand are hoping that it’s not true…Come on admit it…

…so the constant reaffirmation of your beliefs is not like saying “it’s true, it’s true!”? Okay, i can accept that for what it is wishing you could accept the fact that there is no secret hope or belief in me for your god…

I think I get it. What ever happens happens!

…aside from your appeal to emotion, shit happens. In humanities case shit happens on a far greater scale than anything nature can show us, so it might look horrendous but whatever happens, happens according to the laws of nature. That is not always pretty, but religion does not have a clean track record too. Many atrocities were done in the name of the lord and the church, so you are calling the kettle black, Zeb. Have you forgotten the beam in your eye?

Pontificate on your psychological perch. I’m all ears (and eyes).

If I learn something I’ll be a better man for it. And if you walk away with something to think about. you’re better off too.

We both win. :slight_smile:

…it would be if i thought it mattered. I do enjoy this exchange, but do not have the illusion it will change anything. I’ve learned that religious folk depend on their beliefs as a form of esteem. This esteem is vitally important to them so anything that goes against those beliefs is not accepted, even if those beliefs are as ludicrous as an earth being 6000 years old, dinosaur fossils left by the devil to confuse believers and creationism. So no Zeb, i’ll leave it at that if you don’t mind…
[/quote]

496

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
Also the Pope sends you a message ZEB, he says ‘Go give yer head a shake’.[/quote]

The pope also needs to be saved!

497

[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Dr. Stig wrote:
Fuck this topic. Anyone interested in the bible might wanna look here, however if you think this link is a bit ‘Gay’ then watch out for Steve O and all the other delusional smug bigot’s making obtuse judgements on your ass.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/

HAHA

Hey, it’s nice to see that my post on “Christianity 101” was not lost on you!

The typical reaction by some atheists:

“delusional smug bigot’s.”

Quite predictiable, and quite sad.

Nothing new here…

Paradoxically what is ‘Quite predicable, and quite sad’ is the fact that you failed to read through the posts before making judgements about me. Which bit of ‘I am a Catholic’ makes you label me as Athiest ?

Perhaps you were just too busy with your self promotion like SteveO to actually bother reading the thread properly.

But really I don’t care, as you are religous AND American you are quite probably about as detached from reality as is possible. Now that’s not to say that this is the case for all American’s, just the ones who seem to think they are now some master race because they ‘embraced Christianity’.

Also wasn’t it you who said he drove a big gas guzzling 4wd because he ‘could afford too’? Which part of rich man, kingdom of heaven, camel, eye of needle did you miss ? Or were you too busy sifting through the bible looking for bits you liked a little like the way you missed the points in this thread.

You calling me an Athiest makes me laugh that you are ignorant to call me this, you are a fucking joke.
[/quote]

Yes, us lousy Americans. Wait – if it wasn’t for us, you would be speaking German right now.

Stop with your typcial pomposity and give me the Scripture verses. I asked very nicely before…

498

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
ZEB wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
ZEB wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
This is where I disagree with Steveo and Zeb.

“Eternal Hell” is a myth.

Don’t be deceived!

Jesus Christ spoke of Hell more than he did Heaven!

I’m sorry Zeb, but it is you who are being decieved by the majority of church teachings.

Did you watch this? Can you elaborate please?

No Irish, I’m not at all impressed with certain “Church teachings.”

I look to the Bible for spiritual guidance.

And as I stated Jesus Christ spoke more of Hell than he did Heaven!

Zeb,

I have no idea why you are calling me “Irish” or what that means.

Please prove to me through Bible scripture that hell is a place that people go for eternity.

You can’t because it’s not a place and people are not eternally living in torment.

If people are going to be “burning forever”, this means that they got the gift of eternal life that only the saved are supposed to get. It makes no sense.

When Christ returns and the saved are taken up, the people who are unsaved will be burned up out of existence by hell fire. They will be no more. That’s what hell is.

The misconception of hell being a literal place that people burn in for all eternity is one of the reasons so many people end up looking the other way when it comes to Christianity.

HELL IS NOT A PLACE THAT PEOPLE GO TO.

[/quote]

I watched the clip, and while the guy makes some interesting points, I find his interpretation at best basic.

While I agree that there is no searing flesh in the description of hell.

He seems to cherry pick verses to prove his point.

example

Rev 20:10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

vs.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

Why is the Devil tormented in the lake of fire forever and not the human spirit/soul?

He seems to not apply the rules of the chapter and meaning of the chapter to each and every verse in the chapter.

It seems to me the the explicit statement of forever and ever wasn’t required for John to convey the message that the unsaved would experience the same fate as the Devil.

in fact if you take his literal interpretation to the fullest no where does it sat that this is the final Death either.

I find his ideas interesting, but no more than that since it is obvious he is doing a little stretching with his interpretation.

499

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
This is where I disagree with Steveo and Zeb.

“Eternal Hell” is a myth.

Please watch this:

I would reconsider my position on this Emu, since if you don’t believe in Hell, you are in effect calling Jesus a liar.

[b][i]

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. ?And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 8: 8-9
[/b][/i]

In these verses – and there are many many others that you could look at, Jesus is speaking and equates “everlasting fire” with “hell fire.”

Everlasting = forever!

Therefore, you must rethink your false beliefs, or just come out and call Jesus a liar.

Can’t have it both ways…

Also look at: Luke 16: 19-21. This is also a teaching directly from the lips of the Lord on Hell.

500

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Dr. Stig wrote:
Fuck this topic. Anyone interested in the bible might wanna look here, however if you think this link is a bit ‘Gay’ then watch out for Steve O and all the other delusional smug bigot’s making obtuse judgements on your ass.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/

HAHA

So using 4-letter disgusting words is OK for a ‘real Christian?’ Seems a bit hypocritcal to me.

Better check that Bible of yours…

Oh, I am still waiting for the Scripture verses that show that Catholic teaching is Biblical…
[/quote]

While I am not a huge fan of the Catholic church. I do strongly support them.

I honestly think though the EOC has stuck the closest to the Early Church fathers teachings, and practices.

I am not a part of the EOC, but I have a huge soft spot for their practices, and worship.

501

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
And as I stated Jesus Christ spoke more of Hell than he did Heaven!

Yeah, it’s like dissing a club you’ve never been to. All I’m seeing here from Jesus is a LOT of salesmanship.

This is why I referred to your belief system as a kind of extortion. This is the fearmongering I was talking about. This is the core message I’m getting from you guys:

“BELIEVE OR BURN, MOTHERFUCKER!!”

And as you say, Jesus went on and on about it. He spoke more of hell than of heaven, right?

I’m just saying that you guys shouldn’t be surprised that there are people like us who do not fall to our knees and tremble just because we are threatened with some eternal punishment.

Oh but Jesus wasn’t “selling”, he was “warning”? I can see how that would be a fine line… dependent upon how willing you are to suspend your disbelief in Jesus as the son of the Almighty. Thus… we have the miracles. More salesmanship. Only this time, it is the writers of the Bible who are doing the selling.

Did Jesus violate the laws of physics? I don’t know… how willing are you to suspend your disbelief? How prone are you to throw away your common sense in the face of Pascal’s Gambit? How much do you need to feel some kind of metaphysical father figure standing over you?

The more I think about this over the years, the more I come to realize that you guys go on “feel” more than anything. You guys do and say what feels comfortable to you, and that’s great. Like I’ve said many many times in these threads, just please please watch where that comfortable fuzzy cocoon of faith takes you.

Fact: You make yourself vulnerable to manipulation when you surrender your reason. That faith can be used as a weapon against those who do not deserve it. The more of you there are, the more ridiculous y’all can get in terms of actions you are willing to take to confirm that comfortable feeling to yourselves. Book burnings and the persecution of innocents is just the beginning. There is a reason that there is a dark and sinister past to Christianity that all of us would like to forget.

Power grabs by those with authority over fanatics. We see this today with other religions. For the love of metaphorical God, don’t let yourself become a tool of the selfish and power-hungry on account of that comfortable feeling.[/quote]

Lothario,

It seems to me that if anyone is tryting to “sell” something here, it is you. You are trying to sell us on your anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Jesus, position and then you go to ridicule believers by giving the old “you have parked your reason outside the door,” routine.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I have all of my reason very much intact and have “jumped into” my faith with all of my soul, body, and spirit – which includes my reason.

I and many others find the Bible very reasonable indeed.
We are basically quoting from

502

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
ZEB wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
ZEB wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
This is where I disagree with Steveo and Zeb.

“Eternal Hell” is a myth.

Don’t be deceived!

Jesus Christ spoke of Hell more than he did Heaven!

I’m sorry Zeb, but it is you who are being decieved by the majority of church teachings.

Did you watch this? Can you elaborate please?

No Irish, I’m not at all impressed with certain “Church teachings.”

I look to the Bible for spiritual guidance.

And as I stated Jesus Christ spoke more of Hell than he did Heaven!

Zeb,

I have no idea why you are calling me “Irish” or what that means.

Please prove to me through Bible scripture that hell is a place that people go for eternity.

You can’t because it’s not a place and people are not eternally living in torment.

If people are going to be “burning forever”, this means that they got the gift of eternal life that only the saved are supposed to get. It makes no sense.

When Christ returns and the saved are taken up, the people who are unsaved will be burned up out of existence by hell fire. They will be no more. That’s what hell is.

The misconception of hell being a literal place that people burn in for all eternity is one of the reasons so many people end up looking the other way when it comes to Christianity.

HELL IS NOT A PLACE THAT PEOPLE GO TO.

[/quote]

Already done!

Next objection…

503

[quote]doogie wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

[b]

Doogie,

No body, no bones – because HE IS RISEN!! [/b]

The resurrection is the lynchpin that holds Christianity together. Consider this, hundreds of people saw Jesus after His crucifixion. His resurrection changed the world – we even reckon time (the calendar) after Him. The world has never been the same following Jesus’ coming to Earth to die in our place.

You truly are insane.

Since you must know where Adam and Eve’s bones are (otherwise they MUST BE RISEN!!!), why don’t you dig them up? You could help prove that this whole evolution thing is wrong, and that the earth really is only 6,000 yrs old.

[/quote]

Are you a psychologist or an M.D. of any kind? I ask because I think everyone should know the basis for your diagnosis of my mental condition.

Are you clarvoyant?

It is amazing that when I answer your questions with sound Biblical answers, your only reply is to throw insults my way. That only goes to show how paper thin and nothing is your position – and quite frankly hurts your credibility.

504

[quote]doogie wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
doogie wrote:
“Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear”. --Thomas Jefferson

You can have Jefferson – I’ll take God at His Word!

Unless God has spoken directly to you, youhave no idea what god’s words are.[/quote]

Sure I do – I have the Word of God!

And please spare me of the “how do you know that God wrote the Bible, etc.”

I know it just like you know that Jefferson wrote what you quoted.

505

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

I know it just like you know that Jefferson wrote what you quoted.
[/quote]

I don’t know for a fact that Jefferson wrote it. I’m certainly smart enough not to devote my entire life to something I couldn’t prove to be true.

If instead of Jefferson, some fat slob named Bob wrote it in his mother’s basement, it wouldn’t change the brilliance of the statement.

Can you say that about your Bible, or would that just turn it into a bunch of violent fairy tales?

506

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Lothario,

It seems to me that if anyone is tryting to “sell” something here, it is you. You are trying to sell us on your anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Jesus, position and then you go to ridicule believers by giving the old “you have parked your reason outside the door,” routine.[/quote]

The reason it is an old routine is that we humanists having been trying to snap you out of your fear-based faith for several centuries now. (Renaissance)

There is nothing “reasonable” about throwing away everything we have learned about the nature of the universe by pretending that there was some guy who lived two thousand years ago who had magic powers like Dr. Strange from the comic books.

Whenever you engage in a study of the supernatural, you must, by necessity, discard normal reason and rationality to embrace something which not natural and normal.

Healing leprosy with a touch of your hand, violating gravity, creating solid matter from nothing, transmuting elements, and most importantly to you – coming back from the dead after three days of rotting and rigor mortis… these are all supernatural acts or occurrences.

I don’t know how I could put this any simpler.

Belief in supernatural = not “reasonable” or rational

What else is there to say? The belief in supernatural God is irrational to begin with. Quite simply, giving powers or personality to something that exists only in your mind is nutso. The reason I can say this with 100% certainty is because no one can produce any scientific evidence of divine will or of its existence.

Sometimes it rains frogs somewhere. Perfectly rational and non-supernatural explanation for that… just like everything in reality.

507

[quote]doogie wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

I know it just like you know that Jefferson wrote what you quoted.

I don’t know for a fact that Jefferson wrote it. I’m certainly smart enough not to devote my entire life to something I couldn’t prove to be true.

If instead of Jefferson, some fat slob named Bob wrote it in his mother’s basement, it wouldn’t change the brilliance of the statement.

Can you say that about your Bible, or would that just turn it into a bunch of violent fairy tales?[/quote]

You seem very angry Doogie. You know that anger is sin. Sin is the bane of mankind and unless you do something about your sin, you will perish.

Yes, the Bible is the Word of God. Never man can destroy it – try as he might. The Word of God will last and endure forever, because God’s Truth endures forever and abides forever.

Sorry you are angry, but there is no compromising of God’s Word.

508

[quote]doogie wrote:
Can you say that about your Bible, or would that just turn it into a bunch of violent fairy tales?[/quote]

pwned. That hurt to read.

509

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Lothario,

It seems to me that if anyone is tryting to “sell” something here, it is you. You are trying to sell us on your anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Jesus, position and then you go to ridicule believers by giving the old “you have parked your reason outside the door,” routine.

The reason it is an old routine is that we humanists having been trying to snap you out of your fear-based faith for several centuries now. (Renaissance)[/quote]

Well, you’ve all failed very well![quote]

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I have all of my reason very much intact and have “jumped into” my faith with all of my soul, body, and spirit – which includes my reason.

There is nothing “reasonable” about throwing away everything we have learned about the nature of the universe by pretending that there was some guy who lived two thousand years ago who had magic powers like Dr. Strange from the comic books.[/quote]

Not what this is at all. If you spent the time researching these things (books by Henry M. Morris for example) you would find that the Bible is very much in line with science. Since God created it all – He is the author of how things operate, i.e. the author of scientific truth.[quote]

Whenever you engage in a study of the supernatural, you must, by necessity, discard normal reason and rationality to embrace something which not natural and normal.[/quote]

No, not discard. You definately must have faith. Faith is the key, but faith is not unreasonable.[quote]

Healing leprosy with a touch of your hand, violating gravity, creating solid matter from nothing, transmuting elements, and most importantly to you – coming back from the dead after three days of rotting and rigor mortis… these are all supernatural acts or occurrences.

I don’t know how I could put this any simpler.

Belief in supernatural = not “reasonable” or rational[/quote]

Again, what do you expect from God? If He is the Creator of it all – what so crazy about healing a bit of leprosy with a touch. I mean, He created the Universe by speaking it into existence. I would say that is more of a feat.[quote]

What else is there to say? The belief in supernatural God is irrational to begin with. Quite simply, giving powers or personality to something that exists only in your mind is nutso. The reason I can say this with 100% certainty is because no one can produce any scientific evidence of divine will or of its existence.[/quote]

Your 100% certainty depends upon what man can produce? What if you lived 1500 years ago before much of current science was perfected? What then?

Do you realize that nothing in science (and I mean real science, not the puedoscience of evolutionary “belief”) contradicts the Bible. [quote]

Sometimes it rains frogs somewhere. Perfectly rational and non-supernatural explanation for that… just like everything in reality.[/quote]

God is in control. I think this is your major problem. You just don’t like the idea that YOU would have to be accountable to God and bow your knee, as it were, and humble yourself before Him.

You cannot be your own God, neither can science be your God.

510

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Not what this is at all. If you spent the time researching these things (books by Henry M. Morris for example) you would find that the Bible is very much in line with science. Since God created it all – He is the author of how things operate, i.e. the author of scientific truth.[/quote]

Just one example of how unscientifc the bible is: People do not rise from the dead. That is not scientific in any way. Jesus was a person. He went poo and everything.

Faith in something which does not have any evidence to exist is not rational. Faith that the sun will 99.lotsa nines % chance will rise tomorrow is a very reasonable faith-based statement. Why? Scientific observation has explained the mechanism for why the sun rises, and why it is normal and okay to assume it will continue to do so for a while.

Once again, assuming the leprosy healing went on at all without some kind of medical intervention is a supernatural belief. We heal leprosy with Rifampin, not massages. Most cases of infection with the leprosy mycobacterium are insidious and long-lived. It takes a long time for symptoms to develop, and the effects are debilitating; slowly but surely. Rifampin = Good.

Then I might believe in ghosts and have an unrefined and simplistic view of the nature of reality. Things are different now. We know the the universe does not revolve around us, and that the stars above us are actually suns of other solar systems shining from long ago and far away. Nifty, huh? Also, we have come to learn that elements do not transmute, suspension of a mass in water requires certain calculatable attributes of weight dispersion and/or density, and that there is an approximate twelve minute window in which your brain can go without fresh oxygen before irreversible brain death occurs, unless the body has been suspended at very cold temperatures.

Did Jesus have a cryo-tank? :slight_smile:

But back to my point, our discoveries of the nature of the universe have made us question the veracity of the bible as a work of literary non-fiction, due simply to the accounts of the supernatural and quite impossible events which were “documented” in the bible.

I’d like to point out yet again that rotting bodies (they DO rot when left at room temperature for three days… hellooo maggots!) do not come back to life. Honest.

“God is in control.” Okay I will accept that there is a certain “immutableness” to the laws of physics. The speed of light, gravitational attraction, the atomic weight of hydrogen, etc. I will agree with this statement if you wish to explain that God is what enforces the nature of things. I would like to point out, however, that the force of gravity does not talk, write books, nor does it engage in adulterous relations with young maidens from Nazareth.

As far as I can tell, the force of gravity sticks to making me fall down after eighteen beers. It’s kind of a specialist. :slight_smile:

You make the choice yourself to personify this, for no other reason than you bought into a ready-made belief system which claims to have answers that it really doesn’t. You are going by “feel”, and not by the virtue of common sense.

Watch your back with that shit. All I’m sayin’.

511

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
The pope also needs to be saved![/quote]

1 BILLION Catholics beg to differ.

You seem to believe you can get away with just about anything. So let’s do this:

If you have the balls to go to the Vatican, and say, to the Pope’s face, that he is NOT saved already, and post a video recording (of you doing that) on the Internet, you have my solemn word that I will Accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior – because, honestly, only the power of a God working through you would give you the guts to do that.

Seriously, I am not kidding. Do that and I WILL believe. It’s proof enough for me.