[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Point is, I would never want my kids to be cowering and running to me at the first sign of trouble. I want them to get out there to discover and solve their own problems, and to grow and learn as best as they can. I think any parent can understand just how I feel here.
[/quote]
Beyond that, can you even begin to imagine taking your kids and throwing them alive into pit of fire because they didn’t fear you enough or love you enough?
[quote]doogie wrote:
Beyond that, can you even begin to imagine taking your kids and throwing them alive into pit of fire because they didn’t fear you enough or love you enough?
[/quote]
Hey yeah… that’s one HELL of a “time-out”!
nyuk, nyuk
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Atheist: I will not believe your fairy tale! I believe in science.
You see, long, long ago and far far away, it rained upon the rocks, and the DNA seeped into the ocean and little “beasties” came out and started to swim. Well, millions an millions of years later, out popped Grandpa![/quote]
Just because something is technically hard to grasp for some of us doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth. Evolutionary science has a lot of big words.
For example, I have a hard time with differential calculus and tying my shoes. Doesn’t mean that calculus and my shoes aren’t valid concepts. 
[quote]ZEB wrote:
ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:
…it continues to astound me, this apparent unwillingness to be honest about ones beliefs and simply say: these are my beliefs, they may not be true but i believe them to be regardless for they bring me happiness, peace and joy in life, and perhaps even in death…
…i don’t think anyone on this particular board will object to such a statement, or do you?
But…if there IS a God and you DON’T believe that there is a God. You are wrong, make no mistake about it!
[/quote]
…thank you for telling me i’m wrong, let me return the favour (-: If there is a God, it will not be anything like this antropomorphic asshole the bible makes him out to be, that is where you are wrong. An infinite being possesses no selfimage, it just is incomprehensable to us mere mortals. Your attempts to bring him down to our level perverts it’s mystery and makes the believer look foolish…
…now, on the offchance i am brought before a god to explain myself after death, i’m confident he’ll understand all my actions and take me under his wing, unlike those who believe otherwise, i’m not a sinner, i am perfectly human (-:
…i’ll remind you once again: …it continues to astound me, this apparent unwillingness to be honest about ones beliefs and simply say: these are my beliefs, they may not be true but i believe them to be regardless for they bring me happiness, peace and joy in life, and perhaps even in death…
…no, it so much more logical and easier to believe that a supernatural being that exists out of time and space created us and the universe just so he can judge us and punish us if were not up to par. That really makes sense (-:
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It is the fate of every Bible believing Christian to suffer ridicule and scorn. As soon as any Christian shares the word of God with a vehement non-believer.
Or somebody with common sense.[/quote]
More ridicule…
[quote]But I’d like to change your characterization of the atheist side, to more closely reflect the truth.
Atheist: “Ummm… I’m not afraid of your fairy tale. I’m not going to fall to my knees and tremble just because somebody threatens me.”[/quote]
“fairy tale” equals more ridicule…
And no one is threatening you. We merely quote the Bible and it “feels” like a threat to you.
It’s nice to see that you ridicule yourself occasionally.
[quote]I know that I’m also in this to enCOURAGE you guys to fight the metaphysical extortion you have fallen victim to.
That, and you guys are fun. :)[/quote]
Yea…it’s usually fun for some people to bash things they don’t understand. But I caution you…don’t try to bash anything the politically correct deem as “sacred.”
Well…you know the rest…
Nothing new here.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Atheist: I will not believe your fairy tale! I believe in science.
You see, long, long ago and far far away, it rained upon the rocks, and the DNA seeped into the ocean and little “beasties” came out and started to swim. Well, millions an millions of years later, out popped Grandpa!
…no, it so much more logical and easier to believe that a supernatural being that exists out of time and space created us and the universe just so he can judge us and punish us if were not up to par. That really makes sense (-:[/quote]
Up to par? Can you elaborate on what up to par in God’s eyes is?
Amazing.
I haven’t looked at this thread in a while, but the hatred for God is still evident.
Amazing…and very sad.
[quote]vroom wrote:
You see, a “believer” is someone who doesn’t listen to difficult to refute logic, but simply “believes” and has nothing new to say.[/quote]
That’s because there IS nothing new to say…The Bible is the Bible…
“Their viewpoint” will always be annoying because the message will not and cannot change. If you didn’t like it the first time, you probably won’t like it the 5th time either.
Some passages are open to interpretation. And that’s one reason why there are many different Christian religions. However, there is one thing that all Christian religions agree on: Jesus Christ is the son of God and he came to earth to die for your sins. And you must accept him to gain eternal salvation!
And my friend is the message. And it will always be the message. Which brings me back to my original point.
You don’t want to hear it.
Nothing new…
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
A better question than why is God allowing this, is “what has God provided to reverse the curse?”
Jesus is the answer!
[/quote]
True, we fell by one man, Adam, and we are saved by one man, Jesus Christ.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Dr. Stig wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
You need to be saved. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved!
You need help mate. How do you know what I believe in ? I take this as a serious insult that you think you know about me when its only you who has placed his beliefs on a bigscreen tv for everyone to judge. I suggest you go away and learn some manners and humility, you are very ignorant. As it happens I am a Catholic (as far as you are concerned that means I am religous) and look right down at the manner in which you conduct your religous affairs.
Yes, but are you saved? . God wishes that all men should be saved. You accuse me of saying something to you without knowing you. What did I say? I just told you what God says in His Word – since God wishes that none perish, but ALL come to repentence – I can say upon God’s Word that you need to be saved.
The fact that you are a member of a religion – great. However, being Catholic or Jewish or Muslim, doesn’t mean that you are going to Heaven and that your eternal destiny is secure. It only means that you follow a particular man-made set of rules that actually are not in the Bible.
Please find for me in the Bible:
(1) Purgatory
(2) Pennance
(3) Worship and prayers to Mary
(4) The rosary
(5) Nuns
(6) Non-Jewish priests
(7) Sacraments
Shall I go on? Where is any of this in God’s Word.
Forgive me if I have offended you in any way. I am sorry. However, Jesus even said that he is not come to bring peace, but a sword. In the Book of Hebrews, God’s Word (The Bible) is compared to a “two edged sword” that pierces even to the dividing asunder of bone, marrow, joints, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I am sorry that you don’t like “my brand of Christianity,” but I would submit for your consideration that “my brand” is actually the one that is Biblical.
Again, you need to be saved (John 3)
[/quote]
Seems you don’t know what Catholicism is, suggest you read up.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:
ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:
…it continues to astound me, this apparent unwillingness to be honest about ones beliefs and simply say: these are my beliefs, they may not be true but i believe them to be regardless for they bring me happiness, peace and joy in life, and perhaps even in death…
…i don’t think anyone on this particular board will object to such a statement, or do you?
But…if there IS a God and you DON’T believe that there is a God. You are wrong, make no mistake about it!
…thank you for telling me i’m wrong,[/quote]
Ha ha…you don’t like being told you’re wrong? Hey…none of us do, now that’s a human trait!
I actually was not talking about you though. It’s simply a scenario where someone is right and someone is wrong.
You can take any part you choose. Free will.
Well, let’s just use another scenario:
If the God of the Christian Bible is real and I beleive that he is real, and someone else does not and he turns out to be real, then that person is wrong! And I’m right.
So then it’s fact? Wow.
I think that making stuff up as “incomprehensable” is sort of foolish.
Sort of like a little kid saying “it can’t be…it just can’t be.” And then he believes it!
That would be the judgment seat…
Then you do have a belief!
You believe without any sort of PROOF that God will understand and take you under his wing.
Now where did you read that one?
You never sinned? Oh wait…I see what you’re trying to say. Humans are perfect therefore nothing they do is sinful. Do I have that right?
If I have that right then I guess Adolph Hitler was taken under Gods “wing” as well.
Right?
[quote]i’ll remind you once again: …it continues to astound me, this apparent unwillingness to be honest about ones beliefs and simply say: these are my beliefs, they may not be true but i believe them to be regardless for they bring me happiness, peace and joy in life, and perhaps even in death…
[/quote]
You assume that Christians are disingenuous because we do not say “they may not be true.”
What if I don’t feel that way? I would be dishonest if I stated that “they may not be true.”
As I know them to be true from the research that I have done on the holy scripture and my prior experiences in life.
That you don’t share or even understand that level of faith is understood.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Atheist: I will not believe your fairy tale! I believe in science.
You see, long, long ago and far far away, it rained upon the rocks, and the DNA seeped into the ocean and little “beasties” came out and started to swim. Well, millions an millions of years later, out popped Grandpa!
…no, it so much more logical and easier to believe that a supernatural being that exists out of time and space created us and the universe just so he can judge us and punish us if were not up to par. That really makes sense (-:[/quote]
Did he create us “just so he could judge us?”
Not so my friend!
He did not create us FOR that reason.
If he had Jesus Christ never would have come to earth FOR us so that we could escape judgement.
But…WHY did God creat the whole thing?
You need to spend some time in the scripture to find that out.
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
ephrem wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Atheist: I will not believe your fairy tale! I believe in science.
You see, long, long ago and far far away, it rained upon the rocks, and the DNA seeped into the ocean and little “beasties” came out and started to swim. Well, millions an millions of years later, out popped Grandpa!
…no, it so much more logical and easier to believe that a supernatural being that exists out of time and space created us and the universe just so he can judge us and punish us if were not up to par. That really makes sense (-:
Up to par? Can you elaborate on what up to par in God’s eyes is?
[/quote]
…i’ve been told many times by socalled christians that if i do not accept J.C. as the son of God, i’ll go to hell. Many socalled christians condemn sexually active gays to hell as they are an abberation in the eyes of God. Do you really want me to continue?
[quote]doogie wrote:
Fill in the blank:
If___________happened tomorrow, I would give up my belief that Jesus was the son of god.
[/quote]
I don’t think you can really get an honest answer for such a question.
Most people believe what they believe because they want to.
most people don’t think of what it would take to give up that belief
most people only look for ways to disprove an opposing belief.
The whole concept of faith is you either have it or you don’t. faith can’t be based on a limit of belief
I could be wrong but hey that is my .02
[quote]ZEB wrote:
ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:
ephrem wrote:
ZEB wrote:
…thank you for telling me i’m wrong,
Ha ha…you don’t like being told you’re wrong? Hey…none of us do, now that’s a human trait![/quote]
…i don’t mind being told i’m wrong, especially if i’m actually in the wrong, but this isn’t the case now. In the case it merely amuses me…
[quote]Well, let’s just use another scenario:
If the God of the Christian Bible is real and I beleive that he is real, and someone else does not and he turns out to be real, then that person is wrong! And I’m right.[/quote]
…that’s a mighty big IF there, Zeb. This IF is the coatrack you hang everything from, isn?t it? Okay, but do you understand that for me it has no foundation? Beliefs are inherently doubful, and require continuous affirmation. I?d rather spend my energy on other matters…
[quote]An infinite being possesses no selfimage, it just is incomprehensable to us mere mortals.
So then it’s fact? Wow.[/quote]
…it is simple logic Zeb, but i fully realise logic is not something you think kindly of…
[quote]Your attempts to bring him down to our level perverts it’s mystery and makes the believer look foolish…
I think that making stuff up as “incomprehensable” is sort of foolish.
Sort of like a little kid saying “it can’t be…it just can’t be.” And then he believes it!.[/quote]
…you think that you understand the mind of your God? This God that appeared as a flaming bush because the mere sight of him would kill someone outright? How many times do you tell yourself how great J.C. and god is, Zeb? How often do you go to church and rekindle the zeal of your beliefs? You don?t think that is just like saying `it?s true, it?s true!!? and then believing it?
[quote]…now, on the offchance i am brought before a god to explain myself after death,
That would be the judgment seat…
i’m confident he’ll understand all my actions and take me under his wing, unlike those who believe
Then you do have a belief![/quote]
…no, i was just playing along with your hypothetical musings, Zeb…
[quote]otherwise, i’m not a sinner, i am perfectly human (-:
You never sinned? Oh wait…I see what you’re trying to say. Humans are perfect therefore nothing they do is sinful. Do I have that right?
If I have that right then I guess Adolph Hitler was taken under Gods “wing” as well.
Right?[/quote]
…people do as people do Zeb, we?re not outside nature, we?re part of nature just as anything else. Army ants clear large area?s of forest of anything small enough to take apart. Meerkat mother?s kill unwanted offspring without hesitation, and so on. Only in your mind we?re differnt and therefore sinners. Now, you be a sinner all you want, i don?t mind. I?ll be happy…
[quote]You assume that Christians are disingenuous because we do not say “they may not be true.”
What if I don’t feel that way? I would be dishonest if I stated that “they may not be true.” [/quote]
…no, you are dishonest if you say that. Beliefs are reinforced by faith, but never leave the realm of uncertainty. You only believe you are right, but can never know this for sure…
[quote]As I know them to be true from the research that I have done on the holy scripture and my prior experiences in life.
That you don’t share or even understand that level of faith is understood.
[/quote]
…wishful thinking Zeb, i could go deep into the psychological aspects for the need to believe, but that?s time wasted. I understand perfectly why you need and want to believe, and why faith is so important to you, partly it?s because of mental immaturity but for the biggest part it?s simply fear. Be fearful you?re whole life, but don?t berate me for not joyning you…
[quote]ZEB wrote:
ephrem wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Atheist: I will not believe your fairy tale! I believe in science.
You see, long, long ago and far far away, it rained upon the rocks, and the DNA seeped into the ocean and little “beasties” came out and started to swim. Well, millions an millions of years later, out popped Grandpa!
…no, it so much more logical and easier to believe that a supernatural being that exists out of time and space created us and the universe just so he can judge us and punish us if were not up to par. That really makes sense (-:
Did he create us “just so he could judge us?”
Not so my friend!
He did not create us FOR that reason.
If he had Jesus Christ never would have come to earth FOR us so that we could escape judgement.
But…WHY did God creat the whole thing?
You need to spend some time in the scripture to find that out.
[/quote]
…he never did create anything. He isn?t there. He only exists in your mind Zeb. That?s all…
[quote]doogie wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Point is, I would never want my kids to be cowering and running to me at the first sign of trouble. I want them to get out there to discover and solve their own problems, and to grow and learn as best as they can. I think any parent can understand just how I feel here.
Beyond that, can you even begin to imagine taking your kids and throwing them alive into pit of fire because they didn’t fear you enough or love you enough?
[/quote]
If there is one concept in Christian doctrine I would change it would be the one of Hell fire, and brimstone.
Then maybe that is cause I am a heretic, and I base my view of it on the society that jesus was speaking to.
Eternal punishment in my studies it always points to it being more of a shame thing, and not an actual fire pit.
Fuck this topic. Anyone interested in the bible might wanna look here, however if you think this link is a bit ‘Gay’ then watch out for Steve O and all the other delusional smug bigot’s making obtuse judgements on your ass.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/
HAHA
[quote]haney wrote:
doogie wrote:
Fill in the blank:
If___________happened tomorrow, I would give up my belief that Jesus was the son of god.
I don’t think you can really get an honest answer for such a question.
Most people believe what they believe because they want to.
most people don’t think of what it would take to give up that belief
most people only look for ways to disprove an opposing belief.
The whole concept of faith is you either have it or you don’t. faith can’t be based on a limit of belief
I could be wrong but hey that is my .02
[/quote]
I think you’re perfectly correct haney…
but what do I know, I’ve probably got no more brain power than a gerbil…maybe two gerbils if I’m on enough caffine…