Post Here To Accept Jesus Christ

[steveo5801]

[quote]hspder wrote:
LBRTRN wrote:
Unless he is PMing everyone than he hasn’t “forced” anything on anyone. No one here is part of a captive audience–simply click on that little “x” in the upper right hand corner and be done with it.

… have you stopped for a moment and considered some of us are actually trying to help? Intelligent people welcome criticism. By criticizing him we are giving him the opportunity to learn, adapt and grow (that’s what intelligence is!) –

among other things become more aware of the world that surrounds all of us, and how his words are interpreted and understood by others – become a better communicator, and, ultimately, a better Christian.
[/quote]

You also don’t have a problem with a condescening tone to someone who you don’t know, have never met, and would not say to his face if I was standing in front of you.

So who are YOU to criticize anyone for anything?

[hspder]

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
Agreed. Will you then agree that most of the non-Christians in this thread are being judgmental?[/quote]

Absolutely, and I never said otherwise. In fact, what I did point out is that judgement is responded to with judgement – and I even quoted the scripture which says exactly that too…

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
I wrongly assumed you were part of the same crowd. I apologize…[/quote]

Apology accepted!

[steveo5801]

[quote]harris447 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
harris447 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
hspder wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Sadly, England has lost its soul and you, the English people, have lost your way. […]Humble yourself, and come to Jesus!

And who the heck do you think you are to come here and pass judgment on 50 MILLION people like that?

God?

Seriously, you might not realize that YOU are the one in most need of humbling yourself. You clearly don’t realize that if you go around judging people, they will judge you back – rather than accepting what you have to say and wanting to know more.

Personally, I have nothing against Christians. In fact, the people I most respect and love happen to all be Christians. But every time I hear or see somebody with your mindless yet judgmental attitude, it makes my skin crawl.

If you really want to spread the Gospel, try changing your tone. A LOT. By sounding like an arrogant, judgmental moron, you are basically making a foul out of yourself and a great disservice to the Body of Christ you claim to be part of…

You should remember that when you scold someone for their tone, you probably should watch yours.

With that said, I appreciate your criticism and just note that “tone” is very difficult to communicate properly in writing. No excuses, but I generally write most of my posts very late at night, since I am out all day making a living and live a very busy life. Again, no excuses…

The substance of what I said, I truly believe that if one would take a dispassionate look at the religious situation of England, one would come to the same conclusion that I have come to. England has lost its’ spiritual soul. Have you researched England’s storied religious and evangelical past?

As for making your skin crawl – i.e. having a really negative reaction to Christians who proclaim the truth – well Jesus had the same problem when He was on Earth proclaiming His truth also.

I guess I am in pretty good company.

Take care…

So, in a post in which you pretend to take a humble tone about your bible-thumping, you end by comparing yourself to Jesus?

You just don’t get why people don’t lke you or your kind.

“My kind,” Harris? Now, could anyone get away with saying this to anyone from another group, except born-again Christians?

“My kind,” happens to be those who do care very much for the souls of others. Otherwise, trust me, I have plenty other things to do.

I was not comparing myself to Jesus to mean – and this is very obvious from my post – that I am, in kind, like Him. That would be blasphemy!

I just pointed out that Jesus was rejected and He, Himself, said that if “they will reject me, they will reject you also…” That was a paraphrase, but that is what Jesus said. The rejection of the message is what I was talking about.

“My kind…”

Harris, you have serious issues…

Once again, you misinterpret basic English.

By “your kind” I did not mean christians. Whatever fairy tales people want to believe to get them through the night is fine by me.

Your kind are pushy, arrogant, self-righteous bible thumpers who have no self-awareness.

People who fail to see that their unctuous self-aggrandizing behavior turns more people off than entices them.

“I care about peoples’ souls”

Get off the cross.

Oh…and if you’re gonna rant and rave about how great this Jebus guy is, stop identifying yourself as a Jew. You can’t have your bread and leaven it, too

[/quote]

Oh, yes I can Harris. The entire first church was ALL JEWISH!

That’s right – read your Bible and see for yourself. Everyone in the early church was Jewish (except for Luke). It was only later, that Christianity expanded under the preaching of Paul to the Gentiles and thus Chrisitains are mainly Gentiles today.

However, there are many many Jewish believers in Messiah Jesus out here. We are “Hebrew Christians.”

My Jewishness is a function of my “natural birth.”

My “Christian-ness” is a function of my “new birth.”

Great question, Harris even though you were once again trying to berrate and belittle me, by doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. I hope you are a bit more enlightened now about this aspect of the Bible and what it means to be Jewish. If not, we can review later.

[steveo5801]

[quote]vroom wrote:
Of course not. Objective truth is truth no matter what WE wish to believe about it.

Sadly true Steveo the moron. The objective truth is that you are an idiot who likes to compare himself favorably to Christ.

However, I’ll ask you this, how come there is no way to verify this objective truth? All we have is some scribblings containing wild stories penned several thousand years ago.

If that’s all it takes, why don’t you believe the penned works of Joseph Smith? How come some people can claim to have heard the wisdom of God and not others?

Have you read the book of mormon? Hmmm? Perhaps your soul is eternally damned because you haven’t taken multiple wives? Have you read the Koran? Perhaps you are damned for not following Mohammed?

The fact you have picked a certain bunch of writing, instead of the Jewish faith – while claiming you are a Jew, is strange. Why not just follow the Noahide laws? Were they not made available to man prior to the coming of Christ?

When you have something approaching OBJECTIVE TRUTH, please come back here and let us all know about it. What you have right now is your own personal belief and opinion… and frankly, your brainpower is so sadly lacking that nobody on the planet really gives a flying fuck what your opinion is.

I’d much rather read the bible myself than listen to your moronic opinions on the topic. Zing!

All of the writings of mankind on the subject of religion are SUBJECTIVE you utter buffoon. Perhaps you would be best served by learning proper use of English before suggesting that your interpretation of the written word bears more weight than that of others.

What a fucking joke![/quote]

Vroom,

We’ve been down this road before, and so I will not answer you point by point.

Suffice it to say that this truth (God’s Word) is objective from God’s point of view!

The fact that you choose not to believe it doesn’t alter the truth of the Word of God.

I am sure you are a very nice and intellignet person, in person. I wonder why you choose to use foul language to attack me. You are not comming off well in your posts.

In fact, your reaction to someone who is just speaking God’s truth, just shows how much you really do need salvation Vroom. You will not be able to speak to God that way after you depart from this Earth, bro.

Accept Jesus!

[steveo5801]

[quote]JPBear wrote:
LBRTRN,

When I think about all the prophecies in Isaiah and the psalms describing the life and death of Jesus so accurately, I am just so blown away by God and His unique and perfect plan of salvation - the plan He has kept hidden from the wise and revealed to the lowly in order that He might receive all the glory.

My husband and I had a discussion about the supernatural nature of the Bible the other night. There is no other book on this Earth like it. The depth of what is revealed in those pages is so deep, the human mind couldn’t have it wrapped up even after a lifetime of study.

I started a thread a while back where I had hoped the Christians on this site could fellowship. Perhaps we should start something like that again? Witnessing is so important, but it is also so cool to just glorify God with other believers.

[/quote]

Great idea, JP. However, it will be flamed for sure. Then we will be accused of “shoving religion down their throats.”

Fulfilled prophecy is the most objective evidence we have for the validitiy of the Bible.

However, as was correctly pointed out the other day by someone, [b] FAITH is the key!

[steveo5801]

[quote]doogie wrote:
JPBear wrote:
LBRTRN,

When I think about all the prophecies in Isaiah and the psalms describing the life and death of Jesus so accurately,

They don’t make since unless you’ve already accepted them as true. They don’t come close to Nostradomus quality.

[/quote]

You are correct Doogie! They don’t come up that – Nostradomus [sic] was wrong – a lot!

God is never ever wrong!

[steveo5801]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

“My kind,” Harris? Now, could anyone get away with saying this to anyone from another group, except born-again Christians?

Blacks don’t try to get other people to be black.

Besides this, you people (yea I said it, “You people”. Deal with it) are so fucking self righteous its disgusting. When it comes down to it, you believe your cult and leave the rest of us the hell alone. If we want the kool aid, we’ll drink it.

“My kind,” happens to be those who do care very much for the souls of others. Otherwise, trust me, I have plenty other things to do.

Like what? All I see you doing here is trying to get internet converts to your overzealous religion. You are a hypocrite and a bullshitter, just like the holy rollers in Washington now.

Harris, you have serious issues…

He’s not the one preaching the glory of god on the internet. You might want to reverse that.[/quote]

You also have serious issues. You should consider anger management or something.

As for JP’s crying because those who reject Christ will spend eternity in Hell fire. That just shows her compassion for people. What other people – except for born-again Chrisitans – that show compassion for others, get this type of treatment.

Anyway, I forgive all of your negative, foul-language, derisive, comments. God can forgive all of your sins, Irish. You need to humble yourself and come to Him…

[hspder]

[quote]JPBear wrote:
hspder wrote:

Are you familiar with the term “self-fulfilling prophecy”?

Now you are just being ridiculous.[/quote]

Why?

I’m not pulling this out of my behind – a large part of my Ph.D. work has been about predictions, forecasts and prophecies – in the context of Economics, true, but as you know money is very important for a lot of people, so I get paid well for being an Economic Prophet. It’s what’s demanded of me. And as such, I’ve learned to understand concepts like self-fulfilling prophecies, cognitive bias, placebo and random coincidences.

To this day, I have never, ever been wrong in any of my public prophecies. Does that mean I have some kind of supernatural power? No – it just means I study hard, am very careful with what I say (and what I don’t) and understand pretty well how people react – namely, what influences them.

I have read the Bible many, many times – several translations – and I even mentioned several of its prophecies in one of my thesis, as examples: every single one of them can be explained by one or several of the concepts I mention above. Furthermore, every single one of the miracles described in the Bible can easily be explained as a mixture of those too, along with natural phenomena.

In fact, several entertainers have performed identical “miracles” and prophecies over the course of years, without ever claiming to have any supernatural powers. That branch of illusionism is called Mentalism:

Mentalism

Having said all that, I must clarify I am NOT saying there is absolute proof they were NOT supernatural occurrences. I am saying, however, that there is no proof that they were, either, because they can also be explained through very natural factors.

So, basically, my point is: you cannot absolutely prove either way, much like you cannot prove there is a God or that there isn’t a God.

Finally, I am not trying to make fun of your faith, saying you’re dumb, gullible, or anything remotely similar to that; I have the utmost respect for you, your intelligence and you Christian beliefs, and I do NOT want to change them. At all. My point is that your beliefs are based on Faith – NOT based on any form or kind of proof.

[hspder]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
However, since I have just been quoting the Bible and telling others what God has said – it cannot be hypocritical, since God cannot be a hypocrite![/quote]

In that case, tell me – where, in the Bible, does it say, specifically, that right about 2006 AD England has lost its soul?

Seriously.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Do you understand? I am not judging anything. God is all of our judge. I just simply outline what the Word of God says. That, obviously, you don’t like. [/quote]

If I didn’t, would I have read the Bible several times?

I have no problem with people quoting the Bible. You, however, do far more than to outline what it says: if that was all that you were doing, you could just copy and paste, or, better yet, provide links to online versions.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
You need to be saved…[/quote]

Here you go again: I need to be saved?

If you were only quoting the Bible – rather than passing judgment on ME – you would be just saying:

"
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
– Mark 16:16
"

In case you don’t understand the difference, let me spell it out for you: providing the above quote of the Bible is impersonal, and it is your prorogative as Christian; pointing your finger SPECIFICALLY AT ME and saying I need to be saved is, however, judgemental (it means YOU – not God – is judging ME).

Do you get it now?

[JPBear]

[quote]hspder wrote:
JPBear wrote:
hspder wrote:

Are you familiar with the term “self-fulfilling prophecy”?

Now you are just being ridiculous.

Why?

I’m not pulling this out of my behind – a large part of my Ph.D. work has been about predictions, forecasts and prophecies – in the context of Economics, true, but as you know money is very important for a lot of people, so I get paid well for being an Economic Prophet. It’s what’s demanded of me. And as such, I’ve learned to understand concepts like self-fulfilling prophecies, cognitive bias, placebo and random coincidences.

To this day, I have never, ever been wrong in any of my public prophecies. Does that mean I have some kind of supernatural power? No – it just means I study hard, am very careful with what I say (and what I don’t) and understand pretty well how people react – namely, what influences them.

I have read the Bible many, many times – several translations – and I even mentioned several of its prophecies in one of my thesis, as examples: every single one of them can be explained by one or several of the concepts I mention above. Furthermore, every single one of the miracles described in the Bible can easily be explained as a mixture of those too, along with natural phenomena.

In fact, several entertainers have performed identical “miracles” and prophecies over the course of years, without ever claiming to have any supernatural powers. That branch of illusionism is called Mentalism:

Mentalism

Having said all that, I must clarify I am NOT saying there is absolute proof they were NOT supernatural occurrences. I am saying, however, that there is no proof that they were, either, because they can also be explained through very natural factors.

So, basically, my point is: you cannot absolutely prove either way, much like you cannot prove there is a God or that there isn’t a God.

Finally, I am not trying to make fun of your faith, saying you’re dumb, gullible, or anything remotely similar to that; I have the utmost respect for you, your intelligence and you Christian beliefs, and I do NOT want to change them. At all. My point is that your beliefs are based on Faith – NOT based on any form or kind of proof.
[/quote]

Fair enough. Of course I disagree with you, but I appreciate your polite and thoughtful response.

[lothario1132]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
One day, it will stop and our existence here on Earth will cease. You really want your eternity depending upon some ridiculous notion that God must have a “good sense of humor?”
[/quote]

steveo: I love ya, man, but this post of yours is representative of why Christianity is a twisted viewpoint to have of the world. Putting aside the silly notions of the belief in supernatural occurences, the idea that the most wonderful being in the Universe who loves moreso than any other MUST, as a matter of course, be seen as some kind of All-cosmic cheerless asshole defies all logic.

[quote]Really THINK about it. Stop posting replies and ask God to show you His truth through His Word.
[/quote]
I HAVE really thought about it, which is why I am not the least bit hesitant to jump into threads like this over and over again. I will talk religion with anybody, because it is such an interesting thing to me to study people like you. I’m gonna write a book on you guys… y’all are weird and fascinating in some kind of semi-sociopathic schizoid way.

Here’s what’s so very very cool about christians:

1. You say to ask God to show me the truth.

2. When I do, nobody answers. Because there’s just me here.

3. So you guys say “here’s this BOOK!!”

4. God didn’t write that book. Men did. Unskilled writers did. The book isn’t any fun to read. Surely God would have much better writing skills… in fact, he would have the VERY BEST writing skills in the universe… by definition.

This is just common sense. Anybody with any brain at all can figure this all out just fine by themselves. Nobody normal would buy into this crap without the sales techniques:

1. Fear of loss: If you don’t accept Jebus, you will miss out on paradise.

2. Penalty association: If you don’t accept Jebus, you will burn for all eternity in a lake of fire and gnashing and wailing, etc.

3. Appeal to authority: I know this because I have a magic book which tells me this. It is magic because it is the actual word of GOD HIMSELF!! No higher authority than that.

Anyone with enough sales resistance that penetrates those three appeals will understand the superficiality of your belief system. I say this not to be condescending, but just to be honest.

There really isn’t much of any substance to being a christian. It is a primitive belief system based not on reality, but fantasy. By definition, any “faith-based” belief system relies upon fantasy, motivated by gut-level reactions of fear of punishment and subservience to a dominant, unchallengable figurehead.

Quick tip: A more reasonable belief system will celebrate growth, embrace values which better the goals of prosperity and courage, and accept the world as it is without having to invent anything. Above all, an honest point of view is the key.

There is nothing honest about a christian point of view. You guys have been swallowing a barrel full of fantasy and fear for over two thousand years. Rather than accept the world as it is, you guys try to redefine reality for your believers using sales techniques and brainwashing, holding a very large metaphorical stick over their heads which will crash down upon them should they question your dogma.

The only, and I mean ONLY, thing I like about christianity is its attention to helpfulness and selflessness. That is just a beautiful thing, man. But dammit! Why do you guys have to get there with such horrible methods? It should be obvious to any and all, without having to resort to such low tactics, that a life of service to others and a satisfaction of a job well done is the best way to live your life well and long. More common sense: by helping others, I help myself. What makes them stronger makes me stronger. By embracing the values of courage and honesty I become a better man.

This is why I ask you to think, and not believe. Belief is for fantasies. Live right now… in the present moment, in the real world. There is a better way.

[steveo5801]

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
One day, it will stop and our existence here on Earth will cease. You really want your eternity depending upon some ridiculous notion that God must have a “good sense of humor?”

steveo: I love ya, man, but this post of yours is representative of why Christianity is a twisted viewpoint to have of the world. Putting aside the silly notions of the belief in supernatural occurences, the idea that the most wonderful being in the Universe who loves moreso than any other MUST, as a matter of course, be seen as some kind of All-cosmic cheerless asshole defies all logic.

Really THINK about it. Stop posting replies and ask God to show you His truth through His Word.

I HAVE really thought about it, which is why I am not the least bit hesitant to jump into threads like this over and over again. I will talk religion with anybody, because it is such an interesting thing to me to study people like you. I’m gonna write a book on you guys… y’all are weird and fascinating in some kind of semi-sociopathic schizoid way.

Here’s what’s so very very cool about christians:

1. You say to ask God to show me the truth.

2. When I do, nobody answers. Because there’s just me here.

3. So you guys say “here’s this BOOK!!”

4. God didn’t write that book. Men did. Unskilled writers did. The book isn’t any fun to read. Surely God would have much better writing skills… in fact, he would have the VERY BEST writing skills in the universe… by definition.

This is just common sense. Anybody with any brain at all can figure this all out just fine by themselves. Nobody normal would buy into this crap without the sales techniques:

1. Fear of loss: If you don’t accept Jebus, you will miss out on paradise.

2. Penalty association: If you don’t accept Jebus, you will burn for all eternity in a lake of fire and gnashing and wailing, etc.

3. Appeal to authority: I know this because I have a magic book which tells me this. It is magic because it is the actual word of GOD HIMSELF!! No higher authority than that.

Anyone with enough sales resistance that penetrates those three appeals will understand the superficiality of your belief system. I say this not to be condescending, but just to be honest.

There really isn’t much of any substance to being a christian. It is a primitive belief system based not on reality, but fantasy. By definition, any “faith-based” belief system relies upon fantasy, motivated by gut-level reactions of fear of punishment and subservience to a dominant, unchallengable figurehead.

Quick tip: A more reasonable belief system will celebrate growth, embrace values which better the goals of prosperity and courage, and accept the world as it is without having to invent anything. Above all, an honest point of view is the key.

There is nothing honest about a christian point of view. You guys have been swallowing a barrel full of fantasy and fear for over two thousand years. Rather than accept the world as it is, you guys try to redefine reality for your believers using sales techniques and brainwashing, holding a very large metaphorical stick over their heads which will crash down upon them should they question your dogma.

The only, and I mean ONLY, thing I like about christianity is its attention to helpfulness and selflessness. That is just a beautiful thing, man. But dammit! Why do you guys have to get there with such horrible methods? It should be obvious to any and all, without having to resort to such low tactics, that a life of service to others and a satisfaction of a job well done is the best way to live your life well and long. More common sense: by helping others, I help myself. What makes them stronger makes me stronger. By embracing the values of courage and honesty I become a better man.

This is why I ask you to think, and not believe. Belief is for fantasies. Live right now… in the present moment, in the real world. There is a better way.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the road to eternal hellfire is paved with “living for the moment,” and “living as you please.”

I completely understand all of the objections. When you don’t believe – and I was there 12 years ago – this all seems like a fantasy that cannot be. However, consider that if the Bible is right just about one thing – the original sin of mankind – then everything sort of makes sense, in that the fall of man placed man at odds with God and the things of God. The natural (the unsaved man) cannot understand the things of God.

If you really want to know God, and come to Him honestly – He will reveal Himself through His Word to you.

What I don’t understand is why you cannot even type the name of “Jesus” correctly. Even if you don’t believe in Him, why are you disrespecting His Name like this and then saying that you “respect Christians.” You cannot “respect Christians” and disrespect Christ!

[steveo5801]

[quote]hspder wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
However, since I have just been quoting the Bible and telling others what God has said – it cannot be hypocritical, since God cannot be a hypocrite!

In that case, tell me – where, in the Bible, does it say, specifically, that right about 2006 AD England has lost its soul?

Seriously.[/quote]

What are you a literalist? When I say that I am giving what the Bible says, I didn’t mean that I am “cutting and pasting.” I am giving, through narrative and in my own words, what the Bible says and of course (like any preacher) expounding on the meaning. I didn’t think I had to spell this out for you, but I guess I was wrong.

That being said, my comment on England stands upon the fact of history. Where are the good Bible-believing churches in England? How many now as compared with 150 years ago? How many missionaries do they send out now as compared to 150 years ago? etc. etc.

If you would study these things, you might reach a similar conclusion.[quote]

steveo5801 wrote:
Do you understand? I am not judging anything. God is all of our judge. I just simply outline what the Word of God says. That, obviously, you don’t like.

If I didn’t, would I have read the Bible several times?

I have no problem with people quoting the Bible. You, however, do far more than to outline what it says: if that was all that you were doing, you could just copy and paste, or, better yet, provide links to online versions.

steveo5801 wrote:
You need to be saved…

Here you go again: I need to be saved?

If you were only quoting the Bible – rather than passing judgment on ME – you would be just saying:

"
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
– Mark 16:16
"[/quote]

What are you talking about? The verse that you just quoted means that everyone that doesn’t believe will go to Hell, and thus all unbelievers need to be saved in order not to go there. Since you are, by your own admission a non-believer in Christ, “you need to be saved” is derived from that and many other portions of scripture.

God is not willing for any to perish, but for ALL to come to repentence (salvaion).[quote]

In case you don’t understand the difference, let me spell it out for you: providing the above quote of the Bible is impersonal, and it is your prorogative as Christian; pointing your finger SPECIFICALLY AT ME and saying I need to be saved is, however, judgemental (it means YOU – not God – is judging ME).

Do you get it now?
[/quote]

No, I don’t. Proclaiming that the Bible says that YOU, specifically, need to be saved is EXACTLY consistent with what it says and therefore perfectly understandable.

The fact is that you prefer a “relgious” person that says, “I have my religion, and you have yours. My religion is good for me, and yours (even if you don’t have one) is good for you. Yours is just as good as mine, etc. etc.”

The problem with this type of mamby-pamby “let every one live” “religion” is that the other party in this transaction will go to Hell for eternity.

All religions are NOT equal. True Christianity is the ONLY one, because God says so!

Also, I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that I noticed that in a previous post, you sort of got in that you are a “Ph.D.” I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren’t trying to impress us with your degree of “learning,” but even Ph.D’s need to be saved, because, my friend, unless you are the only person (save Jesus Himself) who never sinned, you have broken God’s Holy Law, and thus are under condemnation. Oh, by the way, this is a description of many many verses, so please don’t respond with your trite, “oh, your judging me…”

Ph.D or no Ph.D – you are a sinner because God says so and thus you need the Savior.

[lothario1132]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Unfortunately, the road to eternal hellfire is paved with “living for the moment,” and “living as you please.”[/quote]

You misunderstand me. Let me clarify:

Living IN the moment is not the same as living FOR the moment. Living FOR the moment means to disregard the consequences to your actions. This is very very bad. Living IN the moment is simply recognizing that the present moment is all you ever have. The past is gone, and the future is out of reach UNTIL it becomes the present. This means that you must realize that all of your power and effort is best focused on what good you can accomplish in the present, with a mindful eye to the consequences. This is wisdom.

Example: There is no better time to start going to the gym and watching your diet, if you are out of shape especially, than… today. DO NOT continue to put it off for tomorrow. This is living in the moment. Living FOR the moment would be not caring about what you do with yourself and having another twenty beers before driving home because who cares what happens an hour from now?

I completely understand all of the objections. When you don’t believe – and I was there 12 years ago – this all seems like a fantasy that cannot be. However, consider that if the Bible is right just about one thing – the original sin of mankind – then everything sort of makes sense, in that the fall of man placed man at odds with God and the things of God. The natural (the unsaved man) cannot understand the things of God.

Once again, you must suspend your disbelief and buy what they are selling, steveo. This is not honesty. If you have to pretend, then you are failing already. What is so bad about the world how it is right now without the pretending? Is reality so terrible?

Realize that there are men like me who dedicate themselves to making this a better place for all of us. Selflessness is its own reward. When I act in a way which lends itself to helpfulness and happiness, I make friends. Having many friends creates joy of its own, as well as provides me with aid, should I need it. There is real strength in numbers, steveo.

Even better is when I convince my friends, through my actions, to become more selfless and helpful themselves. This is not easy – because it is our primitive nature to be distrustful and selfish – but this can be overcome… not by threats or fear, but through reason and example.

What I don’t understand is why you cannot even type the name of “Jesus” correctly. Even if you don’t believe in Him, why are you disrespecting His Name like this and then saying that you “respect Christians.” You cannot “respect Christians” and disrespect Christ!

Please understand something, and try not to take this personally, but I respect people, I absolutely DO NOT respect christianity. It represents everything mean about our existence here. Fear, insularism, intolerance, deceit… shall I continue? This is the harvest which is reaped upon the belief systems based in fantasy. They don’t work.

What works is when people are able to transcend their primitive urges and work towards a better tomorrow by focusing their efforts in the present. Look at any successful business and you will see the way to do this. We use the gestalt of the efforts of many to achieve more than we could individually. If the company is well-run with an eye towards honesty and courage (taking calculated risks to grow), the business will succeed spectacularly.

Think, don’t believe.

[steveo5801]

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Unfortunately, the road to eternal hellfire is paved with “living for the moment,” and “living as you please.”

You misunderstand me. Let me clarify:

Living IN the moment is not the same as living FOR the moment. Living FOR the moment means to disregard the consequences to your actions. This is very very bad. Living IN the moment is simply recognizing that the present moment is all you ever have. The past is gone, and the future is out of reach UNTIL it becomes the present. This means that you must realize that all of your power and effort is best focused on what good you can accomplish in the present, with a mindful eye to the consequences. This is wisdom.

Example: There is no better time to start going to the gym and watching your diet, if you are out of shape especially, than… today. DO NOT continue to put it off for tomorrow. This is living in the moment. Living FOR the moment would be not caring about what you do with yourself and having another twenty beers before driving home because who cares what happens an hour from now?

I completely understand all of the objections. When you don’t believe – and I was there 12 years ago – this all seems like a fantasy that cannot be. However, consider that if the Bible is right just about one thing – the original sin of mankind – then everything sort of makes sense, in that the fall of man placed man at odds with God and the things of God. The natural (the unsaved man) cannot understand the things of God.

Once again, you must suspend your disbelief and buy what they are selling, steveo. This is not honesty. If you have to pretend, then you are failing already. What is so bad about the world how it is right now without the pretending? Is reality so terrible?

Realize that there are men like me who dedicate themselves to making this a better place for all of us. Selflessness is its own reward. When I act in a way which lends itself to helpfulness and happiness, I make friends. Having many friends creates joy of its own, as well as provides me with aid, should I need it. There is real strength in numbers, steveo.

Even better is when I convince my friends, through my actions, to become more selfless and helpful themselves. This is not easy – because it is our primitive nature to be distrustful and selfish – but this can be overcome… not by threats or fear, but through reason and example.

What I don’t understand is why you cannot even type the name of “Jesus” correctly. Even if you don’t believe in Him, why are you disrespecting His Name like this and then saying that you “respect Christians.” You cannot “respect Christians” and disrespect Christ!

Please understand something, and try not to take this personally, but I respect people, I absolutely DO NOT respect christianity. It represents everything mean about our existence here. Fear, insularism, intolerance, deceit… shall I continue? This is the harvest which is reaped upon the belief systems based in fantasy. They don’t work.

What works is when people are able to transcend their primitive urges and work towards a better tomorrow by focusing their efforts in the present. Look at any successful business and you will see the way to do this. We use the gestalt of the efforts of many to achieve more than we could individually. If the company is well-run with an eye towards honesty and courage (taking calculated risks to grow), the business will succeed spectacularly.

Think, don’t believe. :)[/quote]

Since it is late, I cannot respond point-by-point, but the tenor of my previous post doesn’t change.

If I misrepresned what you said – “living in the moment” and not “living for the moment,” I apologize. However, my response is the same since God’s Word teaches that life now – in the moment – is to prepare for eternity. If all I ever did was live “in the moment,” I would not think of eternity and therefore who would bother with salvation and the things of God. Who needs salvation from eternal hellfire if all you do is “live and think in the moment?”

The sum total of your argument is that you are a humanist. Now I know that you didn’t actually use that word, but before you flame my use of it, consider what you said. All of your statements are how YOU have DONE GOOD THINGS and encourage others to do good things. The Bible teaches that "all of our works are like filthy rags in His [God’s] sight. In other words, while God does want us to be good to others and to “esteem others better than ourselves,” if we are doing good to think we will impress God, then those works amount to zero in God’s sight.

The fact is that I didn’t make the rules up – our Creator did. God makes the rules – I just preach them to people.

Finally, you say about Christianity…

“It represents everything mean about our existence here. Fear, insularism, intolerance, deceit… shall I continue?”

Really? Following Jesus Christ represents everything “mean?”

Let me ask you something. When was the last time you heard of a born-again believer murder someone? Rob a bank? Blow up a train? Swindle someone out of their life savings?

What are you talking about? How can someone who wishes to follow in the steps of the Master (Jesus Christ) represent anything mean?

Deceit? Where is the deciet? If the Bible says that people are sinners and they will go to Hell without Christ, that’s what God says. No deciet – just His truth.

I am sorry you are offended, and you seem to be a really great guy, but you are way off base in your understanding of true Christianity and where all of us are ultimately headed. Eternity either in Heaven or in Hell.

[vroom]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Vroom,

We’ve been down this road before, and so I will not answer you point by point.

Suffice it to say that this truth (God’s Word) is objective from God’s point of view![/quote]

Yes, and it is ultimate hubris on your part to imagine that you even have the ability understand an inkling of that point of view.

You continually associate yourself with Jesus or God as if you have some special relationship that others do not.

The fact that you choose not to believe it doesn’t alter the truth of the Word of God.

Who said I don’t? Let me quote myself for the hard of thinking…

I’d much rather read the bible myself than listen to your moronic opinions on the topic. Zing!

I am sure you are a very nice and intellignet person, in person. I wonder why you choose to use foul language to attack me. You are not comming off well in your posts.

I am NOT a very nice and intelligent person, and stop fucking insulting me with such tripe.

In fact, your reaction to someone who is just speaking God’s truth, just shows how much you really do need salvation Vroom. You will not be able to speak to God that way after you depart from this Earth, bro.

I react this way to people that speak God’s truth as if they have any special dispensation to do so. You are just a clueless person with a belief system, big fat hairy deal.

My interpretations are very different than your own in various areas.

Accept Jesus!

Stop preaching to me, asswipe! I don’t need it, nor do I want it, and if I’ve asked you to stop, why do you persist?

Perhaps because you are achieve self-aggrandizement through these actions? You might better check your motives at the gate bucko.

[JPBear]

lothario:

If we are nothing but random physical beings, which ended up here by accident, how can you claim that goodness and kindness towards others is better than self centered pursuits? Maybe you get more joy from having friends than you do from feeding the desires of your flesh, but not everyone does. If there is no external moral standard, then things wouldn’t be morally good or bad, they would just be different.

Besides, if we are nothing but random physical forms, a cosmic accident, then how can you trust anything that those random chemical reactions in your brain are leading you to believe? If you are random and purely physical, you have to resign yourself to the fact that you cannot even know what is true, and you can’t even know that. You can’t even know that you can’t know anything for sure.

You people (I know, that’s bad to say) are driving me crazy! How can you look at the world around you and not see the very obvious fact that there had to have been a creator?

[steveo5801]

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Vroom,

We’ve been down this road before, and so I will not answer you point by point.

Suffice it to say that this truth (God’s Word) is objective from God’s point of view!

Yes, and it is ultimate hubris on your part to imagine that you even have the ability understand an inkling of that point of view.

You continually associate yourself with Jesus or God as if you have some special relationship that others do not.[/quote]

Yes, I do. It is called salvation. I know Jesus like I know anyone else. I do have a special relationship to Him and to God the Father. The great thing is that you can have it too![quote]

The fact that you choose not to believe it doesn’t alter the truth of the Word of God.

Who said I don’t? Let me quote myself for the hard of thinking…

I’d much rather read the bible myself than listen to your moronic opinions on the topic. Zing!
[/quote]

Then read it and ask God to open your heart and mind to it.[quote]

I am sure you are a very nice and intellignet person, in person. I wonder why you choose to use foul language to attack me. You are not comming off well in your posts.

I am NOT a very nice and intelligent person, and stop fucking insulting me with such tripe.[/quote]

I call you intelligent and nice and you still come back like this? Are you on any meds? You might need some…[quote]

In fact, your reaction to someone who is just speaking God’s truth, just shows how much you really do need salvation Vroom. You will not be able to speak to God that way after you depart from this Earth, bro.

I react this way to people that speak God’s truth as if they have any special dispensation to do so. You are just a clueless person with a belief system, big fat hairy deal.[/quote]

Yeah, but it is God’s belief system. Remember God + 0 = A majority opinion![quote]

My interpretations are very different than your own in various areas.

Accept Jesus!

Stop preaching to me, asswipe! I don’t need it, nor do I want it, and if I’ve asked you to stop, why do you persist?[/quote]

Why do you keep reading these posts, Vroom? I only preach to you because you allow me to do so. Perhaps you do realize that there is something missing in your heart and life, Vroom.

Sorry, but I will not stop as long as you keep reading and answering…[quote]

Perhaps because you are achieve self-aggrandizement through these actions? You might better check your motives at the gate bucko.[/quote]

I have and you are wrong. If I was trying to “self-promote” I would be posting so that others would be saying great things about me, not flaming me at every turn! This doesn’t even make sense. Perhaps, you do need meds…

lol

[lothario1132]

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
If I misrepresned what you said – “living in the moment” and not “living for the moment,” I apologize. However, my response is the same since God’s Word teaches that life now – in the moment – is to prepare for eternity. If all I ever did was live “in the moment,” I would not think of eternity and therefore who would bother with salvation and the things of God. Who needs salvation from eternal hellfire if all you do is “live and think in the moment?” [/quote]
EXACTLY.

There is no such thing as forever, steveo. Your life, and all life… even the universe itself is transient and inconstant. This is the way of the universe – that there is a beginning and an end. Even the sun will someday die, steveo. Realizing this is paying homage to honesty. These are the REAL rules we all must follow whether we like it or not, and anybody who tells you diffently from what your own eyes can plainly see is trying to sell you something.

The sum total of your argument is that you are a humanist. Now I know that you didn’t actually use that word, but before you flame my use of it, consider what you said. All of your statements are how YOU have DONE GOOD THINGS and encourage others to do good things. The Bible teaches that "all of our works are like filthy rags in His [God’s] sight. In other words, while God does want us to be good to others and to “esteem others better than ourselves,” if we are doing good to think we will impress God, then those works amount to zero in God’s sight.

Okay. But selfless acts to make yourself look good to some God are still missing the point. The point is that there is no supernatural God to impress in the first place. We do good works for the sake of what good they do. The acts themselves, the feeling of satisfaction of doing them, and the good consequences from doing them are the reward.

Let me get this straight: not only is Christianity weird in the fact that it is based on fantasy, it eschews common sense even further by pissing on the idea of doing good for its own sake. I mean, I could see how it would be so much nicer and make more sense if what you said was the exact opposite. You should be REQUIRED to do good works to get into heaven… kind of like earning your place in paradise, so to speak. That would make more sense.

[quote]The fact is that I didn’t make the rules up – our Creator did. God makes the rules – I just preach them to people.

Finally, you say about Christianity…

“It represents everything mean about our existence here. Fear, insularism, intolerance, deceit… shall I continue?”

Really? Following Jesus Christ represents everything “mean?”[/quote]

Yes. Indirectly. What I was getting at was giving up on reality and being afraid of oblivion enough to buy into some supernatural pyramid scheme is the face of cowardice. Maybe that’s too strong of a word.

Let me ask you something. When was the last time you heard of a born-again believer murder someone? Rob a bank? Blow up a train? Swindle someone out of their life savings?

I’m just going to go party-line stuff here to explain myself to you… I make no presumptions about what you personally voted for or against, or what personal views about these issues you actually hold, okay?

1. You guys, despite what we have achieved thus far, still continue this battle against scientific advancement. Specifically, the fundamentalists continue this pointless crusade against the theory of evolution like it is some kind of heresy. Anything that questions the magic book is called false and against God. This goes back to geocentrism even. Insularism.

2. Did you vote for the marriage protection act and effectively short-change gay marriage? Why? Not out of common sense, but because for some reason, your magic book says that being a homosexual is bad. They are sinning somehow by loving someone of the same gender. Intolerance.

Deceit? Where is the deciet? If the Bible says that people are sinners and they will go to Hell without Christ, that’s what God says. No deciet – just His truth.

3. If I write a book and entitle it “The One True Way” that says you will suffer forever after you die unless you sacrifice a pig to the Great Bunnyrabbit on every full moon, does that make it the truth? Yes, it’s true that the contents of those pages contain stories and exploits of the prophet of the Great Bunnyrabbit… let’s call him Melvin… but that doesn’t mean that it actually happened the exact way the book is written, and the fact that the book makes claims to know of an afterlife is complete fabrication – by definition.

This is the deceit. This is the great sell.

Shall I tell you a secret? I know what it’s like to be dead. I was dead for countless eons – and I do mean countless – billions of them. And then I was born. Someday, maybe real soon, I will return to oblivion and not ever know that I was alive. I will know nothing at all, because I am gone. No pain, no joy, no nothing. The only way that my life will have meant anything at all will be predicated upon how I left the world for those who come after me.

All we have is now. This is simple common sense, steveo. If you choose to lie to yourself and think differently, then that is your choice. The funny thing is that you won’t even have a chance to be disappointed that there isn’t an afterlife.

[miniross]

[quote]JPBear wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

Makes you cry? Are you kidding? Because people believe something different than you?

Like Doogie, I don’t argue with you because I respect you and you’re not a regular contributer to the politics forum.

But this is fucking sad. People think differently. Get over it. Crying my ass, you are being ridiculous. You can be a zealot all you want, but don’t “cry” because other people are somewhat reasonable and don’t attempt to force their religion on others, or gasp don’t believe in God.

I truly believe that you are going to face an eternity of punishment in hell. I would have to be heartless for that not to affect me that way. [/quote]

OK, so i can balance this by saying that i truly believe that you will get agro when posting something so bloody proposterous that it is an affront to the wondeful thing that a human being is, belitling it in deference to some supposed supernatural being.

It must burn you to know that millions die a year of aids in Africa, with many of them, supposedly, going to burn in hell.