Post Here To Accept Jesus Christ

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
287

Sadly true Steveo the moron. The objective truth is that you are an idiot who likes to compare himself favorably to Christ.

However, I’ll ask you this, how come there is no way to verify this objective truth? All we have is some scribblings containing wild stories penned several thousand years ago.

If that’s all it takes, why don’t you believe the penned works of Joseph Smith? How come some people can claim to have heard the wisdom of God and not others?

Have you read the book of mormon? Hmmm? Perhaps your soul is eternally damned because you haven’t taken multiple wives? Have you read the Koran? Perhaps you are damned for not following Mohammed?

The fact you have picked a certain bunch of writing, instead of the Jewish faith – while claiming you are a Jew, is strange. Why not just follow the Noahide laws? Were they not made available to man prior to the coming of Christ?

When you have something approaching OBJECTIVE TRUTH, please come back here and let us all know about it. What you have right now is your own personal belief and opinion… and frankly, your brainpower is so sadly lacking that nobody on the planet really gives a flying fuck what your opinion is.

I’d much rather read the bible myself than listen to your moronic opinions on the topic. Zing!

All of the writings of mankind on the subject of religion are SUBJECTIVE you utter buffoon. Perhaps you would be best served by learning proper use of English before suggesting that your interpretation of the written word bears more weight than that of others.

What a fucking joke!

288

I always think when you try to convince someone about something, message managment is the key.

Stevo is trying to convince me by spouting little gems from the Bible.

Is this the best way to send a message?

For me, no.

Also, i am not trying to convert Stevo from religion. I think if people want to live in a haze of self gratification whether through religion or drugs , then good for them.

I have no church to becry the absolute innanity of worshiping God, so there you go. It is here that i do.

Also, i dont know why your savour was called Jesus, a Spanish name, when he should have been called something like Oman.

289

Vroom brings up a good point: How does one decide to follow one particullar set of writtings and not another? It’s a complicated answer and would take far too much time to fully explain; however, one specific prophecy started me on my journy towards belief in the Bible. Check it out:

The prophecy I am refering to is found in the book of Daniel. Before I go further it’s important to keep in mind that Daniel is found in the Septuigent version of the Bible which means it, without a doubt, was penned before the 1st century bc.

Starting with Daniel 9:24:

In ancient Isreal, there was a common idiom of “weeks” of years–a sort of sabbath for the land when on the 7th year, the land was to go unused. Given that, the above should be interpreted as seventy 7 year periods, or, 490 years. Furthermore, ancient Isreal used a calender of 360 days, so, 490 years = 176,400 days.

Dan 9:25:

From the time the commandment goes out to rebuild Jerusalem–it had been destroyed by the Babylonians–until the appearance of the Messiah, there will be 69 weeks, or, 173,880 days.

When did the commandment go out? Well, the commandment to rebuild the temple went out some time in the 5th century BC; however, the commandment to rebuild the city, signified by the completion of a wall (as the passage specifies), did not occure until 445 bc (a matter of historical fact).

173,880 days ~ 476 years in terms of a 365 day calender.

445 bc - 476 years = 32 ad (there is only 1 year between 1 bc and 1 ad)

We know that Jesus’ ministry as the self proclaimed Jewish Messiah occured sometime between the years 30-33 ad. Depending on whether you include leap years and the exact date the commandment went out (it happended sometime in the spring of 445) you fall somewhere within that range.

Keep in mind, we know, at the very least, that the book was penned between the 3rd and 1st centuries bc (many scholars date it much earlier).

Pretty accurate, no?

The prophecy goes on and gets much more interesting and complicated. For instance, after the 69th week the Messiah is “cut off” and then some unspecified time after that (but before the 70th week) the temple is once again destroyed. Which, as most know, happened in 70 ad.

Anyways, that prophecy (and others) is what got me thinking that there might be something to this whole Bible thing–at the very least it’s interesting stuff.

290

[quote]miniross wrote:

Also, i dont know why your savour was called Jesus, a Spanish name, when he should have been called something like Oman.[/quote]

Sigh…I hope you are joking. In case you arent, the name Jesus comes form the Latin (or Greek, I can’t remember) translation of the Hebrew/Aramaic Yeshua, Yeheshua, and Jeshua.

291

LBRTRN,

When I think about all the prophecies in Isaiah and the psalms describing the life and death of Jesus so accurately, I am just so blown away by God and His unique and perfect plan of salvation - the plan He has kept hidden from the wise and revealed to the lowly in order that He might receive all the glory.

My husband and I had a discussion about the supernatural nature of the Bible the other night. There is no other book on this Earth like it. The depth of what is revealed in those pages is so deep, the human mind couldn’t have it wrapped up even after a lifetime of study.

I started a thread a while back where I had hoped the Christians on this site could fellowship. Perhaps we should start something like that again? Witnessing is so important, but it is also so cool to just glorify God with other believers.

292

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
By criticizing him we are giving him the opportunity to learn, adapt and grow (that’s what intelligence is!) –

Did it ever occure to you that he is attempting to do the same for you?[/quote]

I have no doubt that’s what he believes that he is doing – however, as I pointed out already several times, the problem is that he’s judging rather than criticizing – the fact that you also do not know the difference speaks volumes…

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
If you expect him to better comunicate his point, than I suggest you and everyone else who wants to help him, start by seeing things from his perspective so that you might better communicate your point. [/quote]

I AM viewing things from his perspective; I used his vocabulary AND I even quoted scripture.

What you fail to admit is that, in typical elitist fashion, you simply refuse to accept that non-Christians may have something useful to tell you about Christians and Christianity…

293

[quote]JPBear wrote:
LBRTRN,

When I think about all the prophecies in Isaiah and the psalms describing the life and death of Jesus so accurately, I am just so blown away by God and His unique and perfect plan of salvation - the plan He has kept hidden from the wise and revealed to the lowly in order that He might receive all the glory.

My husband and I had a discussion about the supernatural nature of the Bible the other night. There is no other book on this Earth like it. The depth of what is revealed in those pages is so deep, the human mind couldn’t have it wrapped up even after a lifetime of study.[/quote]

I know what you mean. When you consider the length of time over which the Bible was written and the number of different authors involved, it’s truley mind blowing when one discovers the intricate themes woven throughout. It’s so intricate and complicated that when I look back on my initial understanding of the Bible, it seems so infantile and superficial–I’m sure in another few years I will look back on my current level of understanding and think much the same.

I have had numerous setbacks when it comes to my relationship with God but the curiosity and amazement rendered in my mind when I discover something new within the Bible, brings me back each time.

[quote]
I started a thread a while back where I had hoped the Christians on this site could fellowship. Perhaps we should start something like that again? Witnessing is so important, but it is also so cool to just glorify God with other believers.[/quote]

I think that’s a great idea; however, I hesitate only because knowing the atmosphere around here, the thread would descend into a “debate” within seconds. But, in the absence of such a thread, if you ever want to talk or discuss something, feel free to PM me.

294

[quote]JPBear wrote:
LBRTRN,

When I think about all the prophecies in Isaiah and the psalms describing the life and death of Jesus so accurately, I am just so blown away by God and His unique and perfect plan of salvation - the plan He has kept hidden from the wise and revealed to the lowly in order that He might receive all the glory.

My husband and I had a discussion about the supernatural nature of the Bible the other night. There is no other book on this Earth like it. The depth of what is revealed in those pages is so deep, the human mind couldn’t have it wrapped up even after a lifetime of study.

I started a thread a while back where I had hoped the Christians on this site could fellowship. Perhaps we should start something like that again? Witnessing is so important, but it is also so cool to just glorify God with other believers.

[/quote]

Actually, the phone book is just like the bible.

Both are provided for free in hotel rooms.

Neither has a convincing narrative.

295

[quote]JPBear wrote:
There is no other book on this Earth like it. [/quote]

So, you’ve read every single book on this Earth? That is truly amazing. How many words can you read a second?

[quote]JPBear wrote:
The depth of what is revealed in those pages is so deep, the human mind couldn’t have it wrapped up even after a lifetime of study.[/quote]

So rather than coming up with your interpretation – since apparently no human being can do that in a lifetime – you simply choose to accept the interpretation of a specific group of people, over another group’s interpretation, apparently because the group you picked must be more enlightened than the rest of mankind…

You really don’t see how enormously arrogant and self-righteous you sound, do you?

296

[quote]JPBear wrote:
LBRTRN,

When I think about all the prophecies in Isaiah and the psalms describing the life and death of Jesus so accurately,

[/quote]

They don’t make since unless you’ve already accepted them as true. They don’t come close to Nostradomus quality.

297

[quote]hspder wrote:
LBRTRN wrote:
By criticizing him we are giving him the opportunity to learn, adapt and grow (that’s what intelligence is!) –

Did it ever occure to you that he is attempting to do the same for you?

I have no doubt that’s what he believes that he is doing – however, as I pointed out already several times, the problem is that he’s judging rather than criticizing – the fact that you also do not know the difference speaks volumes…[/quote]

For the sake of argument, why don’t you explain the difference to me.

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
If you expect him to better comunicate his point, than I suggest you and everyone else who wants to help him, start by seeing things from his perspective so that you might better communicate your point.

I AM viewing things from his perspective; I used his vocabulary AND I even quoted scripture.[/quote]

Lol. I didn’t realize that in order to see something from someone elses perspective, all one needs to do is use his/her vocabulary. You seem to think he is comming from a place of superiority when he tells you you need saving–he isn’t. From his perspective, he’s telling you out of obligation. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be anoyed by that and I’m not saying you shouldn’t debate him on that point. But, when you (and I’m largely using you in the general sense at this point) come out swinging and basically call him an idiot because of his beliefs, you are doing exactly what you decry in “Bible-thumpers.”

[quote]What you fail to admit is that, in typical elitist fashion, you simply refuse to accept that non-Christians may have something useful to tell you about Christians and Christianity…
[/quote]

Oh yes, I’m an elitist…you got me. There is much Christians can learn from non-Christians–so far as any thoughtful person can learn much from any other thoughtful person. The problem lies in that for most of this thread, there has been little thoughtfulness and much derisiveness. And if you can’t see that, well, that speaks volumes…

I haven’t been a Christian all that long and prior to being one, I was much like you (that’s not a value judgement by the way, so before you get up on your high horse and call me elitist again, know that I meant it as a statement of fact and nothing else). T

hus, unlike you I’m guessing, I’ve been on both sides of this debate and almost universally, both sides act much the same. They may use different vocabulary but in the end, people act like people and generally fail to recognize that they are often guilty of the same behavior they seek to odmonish others for (myself included).

298

[quote]doogie wrote:
JPBear wrote:
LBRTRN,

When I think about all the prophecies in Isaiah and the psalms describing the life and death of Jesus so accurately,

They don’t make since unless you’ve already accepted them as true. They don’t come close to Nostradomus quality.

[/quote]

Why don’t you check them out? Here are just 50 of the 300 fulfilled prophesies:

Birth and childhood:

1- The “seed of a woman”: Genesis 3:15… Galatians 4:4.
2- Descendent of Abraham: Genesis 12:3, 18:18… Acts 3:25, Matthew 1:1.
3- Descendent of Isaac: Gen.17:19, Luc.3:34.
4- Descendent of Jacob: Numbers 24:17… Luke 3:34, Matt.1:2.
5-- From the Tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10, Luke 3:33.
6- Heir of the Throne of David: Isaiah 9:7… Luke 1:32-33.
7- Born in Bethlehem: Micah 5:2… Matthew 2:1… Luke 2:4-7.
8- To be born of a Virgin: Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18… Luke 1:26-35.
9- Time of his birth: Daniel 9:25… Luke 2:1:
10- Slaughter of the Innocent children: Jeremiah 31:15… Matthew 2:16-18.
11- Flight to Egypt: Hosea 11:1… Matthew 2:14-15.
12- He shall be called a Nazarene: Judges 13:5… Matthew 2:23.

Passion:

13- Triumphal entry in Jerusalem on a donkey: Zechariah 9:9… John 12:13-14.
14- Entry through the “Golden Gate”, that shall be shut for ever after his entrance: Ezekiel 44:1-2… Mark 11:7-8.
15- Betrayed by a friend, for 30 pieces of silver: Zechariah 11:12, Psalm 41:9…
16- Money to be returned for a potter’s field: Zechariah 11:13… Matthew 27:6-7.
17- Judas’s position to be taken by another: Psalm 109:7-8… Acts 1:18-20.
18- Accused by false witnesses: Psalms .27:12, 35:11… Mt 26:60-61, Mk.14:57.
19- Silent to accusations: Isaiah 53:7… Matthew 26:62-63, Mark.15:4-5.
20 - Spat and struck: Isaiah 50:6, Matthew 26:67.
21- Hated without reason: Psalms 69:4, 35:19, 109:3-5… John.15:24-25
22- Soldiers divided his garments and gambled for his clothing: Psalm 22:18… Matt.27:35 (2 Prophecies)
23- Crucified, “pierced through hands and feet”: Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 22:16… Matthew 27:35, John 20:27
24- Crucified with malefactors: Isaiah 53:12… Mark 15:27-28.
25- Agonized in Thirst: Psalm 22:15… John 19:28.
26- Given gall and vinegar: Psalm 69:21… Matthew 27:34, 48, John 19:19.
27- No bones broken: Psalm 34:20… John 19:32-36.
28- His side pierced: Zechariah 12:10… John 19:34.
29- Deserted by God: Psalm 22:1… Matthew 27:46.
30- Vicarious Sacrifice: Isaiah 53:4-5, 6, 12… Matthew 8:16-17, Romans 4:25, 5:6-8, 1 Corinthians 15:3.
31- Buried with the rich: Isaiah 53:9, Matthew 27:57-60.
32- Deserted by his followers: Zechariah 13:7… Mark 14:27
33- Time of his death: Daniel 9:25… Luke 2:1, Matthew 2:1:
34- Resurrection of Jesus: Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15… Luke 24:6-7, Mark.16:6-7.
35- Other dead raised with Him: Isaiah 26:19, Ezekiel 37:7-10… Matthew 27:52-53. 36- Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3…Lk 24:50-51, Acts 1:11, Mk.16:19. 37- Christ at the Right hand of the Father: Psalm 110:1… Hebrews 1:2,3.

Ministry:

38- The way prepared by John the Baptist: Isaiah 40:3,5… John 1:23, Luke 3:3-6. 39- Preceded by a forerunner: Mal.3:1, Luk.7:24-27.
40- Preceded by Elijah: Mal.4:5-6, Matt.11:13-14.
41- Declared the Son of God: Ps.2:7, Matt.3:17.
42- Galilean Ministry: Is.9:1-2, Matt.4:13-16.
43- Speaks in Parables: Ps.78:2-4, Matt.13:34-35.
44- A Prophet: Deut.18:15, Jn.6:14, Acts 3:20-22.
45- Priest after the Order of Melchizedek: Ps.110:4, Heb.5:5-6.
46- To bind up the brokenhearted: Is.61:1-2, Luk.4:18-19.
47- Rejected by his own people, the Jews: Is.53:3, John 1:11.
48- Not believed: Is.53:1, John 12:37.
49- Adored by infants: Ps.8:2, Matt.21:15–16.
50- Anointed and eternal: Ps.45:6-7, Heb.1:8-12.

299

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
For the sake of argument, why don’t you explain the difference to me.[/quote]

This is how I see the difference:

Judgment: a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion

Criticism: considering the merits and demerits of something

See what I mean now? A judgment comes from a place and a tone of authority, and is presented with a formal tone; Criticism is simply pointing out merits and demerits – without any authority or formalism implied.

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
But, when you (and I’m largely using you in the general sense at this point) come out swinging and basically call him an idiot because of his beliefs, you are doing exactly what you decry in “Bible-thumpers.” [/quote]

Absolutely. But I did not do that myself (as you admit), so why the heck are you laying it out on me? Let me answer that for you: because you’re putting all non-Christians in the same “bag”, or you wouldn?t be making those comments in response to a post of mine.

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
The problem lies in that for most of this thread, there has been little thoughtfulness and much derisiveness. And if you can’t see that, well, that speaks volumes…[/quote]

Of course I can see that. Did I, at any point, say otherwise? Again, you seem to be chastising me for things I have nothing to do with.

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
almost universally, both sides act much the same. They may use different vocabulary but in the end, people act like people and generally fail to recognize that they are often guilty of the same behavior they seek to odmonish others for (myself included).[/quote]

Absolutely, and that’s exactly what I’ve been saying. Just look a few posts back.

You see, we fundamentally agree on this. The fact that you are so eager to disagree with me just goes to prove my point: you put all non-Christians in the same bag – which is exactly one of the halves of elitism (the other is arrogance).

300

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Why don’t you check them out? Here are just 50 of the 300 fulfilled prophesies:[/quote]

Are you familiar with the term “self-fulfilling prophecy”?

Faith is, by definition, firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

Realize it, and stop pretending there is proof. It just makes you look silly. There isn’t any proof, nor there has to be; if there was, faith wouldn’t be necessary.

301

[quote]hspder wrote:

Are you familiar with the term “self-fulfilling prophecy”?

[/quote]

Now you are just being ridiculous.

302

[quote]hspder wrote:
LBRTRN wrote:
For the sake of argument, why don’t you explain the difference to me.

This is how I see the difference:

Judgment: a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion

Criticism: considering the merits and demerits of something

See what I mean now? A judgment comes from a place and a tone of authority, and is presented with a formal tone; Criticism is simply pointing out merits and demerits – without any authority or formalism implied.[/quote]

Agreed. Will you then agree that most of the non-Christians in this thread are being judgmental?

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
But, when you (and I’m largely using you in the general sense at this point) come out swinging and basically call him an idiot because of his beliefs, you are doing exactly what you decry in “Bible-thumpers.”

Absolutely. But I did not do that myself (as you admit), so why the heck are you laying it out on me? Let me answer that for you: because you’re putting all non-Christians in the same “bag”, or you wouldn?t be making those comments in response to a post of mine.[/quote]

Lest you forget, this little debate of ours got started when you chose to respond to a comment not even directed at you. So please, forgive me if the line of demarcation has been blurred

[quote]LBRTRN wrote:
The problem lies in that for most of this thread, there has been little thoughtfulness and much derisiveness. And if you can’t see that, well, that speaks volumes…

Of course I can see that. Did I, at any point, say otherwise? Again, you seem to be chastising me for things I have nothing to do with.[/quote]

If thats the case, please forgive me.

I do not put all non-Christians in the same bag. To be honest, I haven’t read every post in this thread and because the majority of the posts have been increadibly derisive, when you responded to my earlier post, I wrongly assumed you were part of the same crowd. I apologize…

305

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Makes you cry? Are you kidding? Because people believe something different than you?

Like Doogie, I don’t argue with you because I respect you and you’re not a regular contributer to the politics forum.

But this is fucking sad. People think differently. Get over it. Crying my ass, you are being ridiculous. You can be a zealot all you want, but don’t “cry” because other people are somewhat reasonable and don’t attempt to force their religion on others, or gasp don’t believe in God. [/quote]

I truly believe that you are going to face an eternity of punishment in hell. I would have to be heartless for that not to affect me that way.

307

[quote]JPBear wrote:
hspder wrote:

Are you familiar with the term “self-fulfilling prophecy”?

Now you are just being ridiculous.[/quote]

Says the person quoting the book full of magic tricks as if it were true.

308

[quote]ephrem wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…religion = fairytales for adults…

Sky = purple

Does it make it true that I said it?

Of course not. Objective truth is truth no matter what WE wish to believe about it.

…the sky is verifiably blue, i’m looking at a blue sky right now. That’s not the issue, is it? Why would you believe at all if objective truth is truth not matter what? Why do so many christian factions exist, and why do they disagree on what to believe?

…no, religion ?s a fairytale for adults, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you’ve found peace through what you believe, then that is great. I’ve found peace too, but that had nothing to do with beliefs or religion, how difficult is that for you to understand?

…many, many people have found peace without the help of religion, and they don’t need to be told that they need religion inspite of that. Just leave me be, and i’ll grant you the same respect. Deal?

[/quote]

So, if I passed by and saw you in a burning car, but you didn’t believe it was on fire, I should just pass you by and leave you alone?

What kind of monster would I be…

310

[quote]hspder wrote:
hspder wrote:
But every time I hear or see somebody with your mindless yet judgmental attitude, it makes my skin crawl.

steveo5801 wrote:
As for making your skin crawl – i.e. having a really negative reaction to Christians who proclaim the truth

Look at what I wrote. Now look at how you completely rephrased it and changed its meaning.

I have no problems with Christians who proclaim (their?) truth. I never said I did. What I have a problem with is with PEOPLE (generally – not only Christians) passing judgment on others, like you do.

I also have a problem with people that distort my words completely (like you did) – also irrespective of their faith.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye;’ and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” {Matthew 7:1-5}[/quote]

Well, you also – and I am saying this not with any malice or negativity – have no problem with taking Bible verses OUT OF CONTEXT .

The verses you quoted are from Jesus’s teaching on HYPOCRITICAL JUDGMENT.

However, since I have just been quoting the Bible and telling others what God has said – it cannot be hypocritical, since God cannot be a hypocrite!

Do you understand? I am not judging anything. God is all of our judge. I just simply outline what the Word of God says. That, obviously, you don’t like.

Too bad.

I stand by my original statement and it is obvious from you last two posts, that you don’t have a problem with “Chrisitans” who don’t take the command to “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel” literally or at least they don’t follow it. The problem you have is with real life, genuine, Bible-believing, born-again Christians who are just following the teachings of Jesus!

You need to be saved…