[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I wish we could be certain that the Jesus depicted in the Bible was a true and accurate portrait. [/quote]
but we can’t…
that’s where the concept of faith comes in…
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Please explain how I have acted “holier than thou”. To be honest with you, I don’t even go to church regularly, nor do I act like I’m better than anyone else. You on the other hand act as if you are your own god who knows all and has the final say in everything.
[/quote]
We all have the final say in our own actions during our lives…
I won’t claim to know anything or to be making the appropriate actions. You might, I don’t know.
Oh, because you like it so much, here’s some choice words for you…
Fuck, Fuck, Fuckity, Fuck-Fuck!
Been to any good book burnings lately?
[quote]vroom wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Please explain how I have acted “holier than thou”. To be honest with you, I don’t even go to church regularly, nor do I act like I’m better than anyone else. You on the other hand act as if you are your own god who knows all and has the final say in everything.
We all have the final say in our own actions during our lives…
I won’t claim to know anything or to be making the appropriate actions. You might, I don’t know.
Oh, because you like it so much, here’s some choice words for you…
Fuck, Fuck, Fuckity, Fuck-Fuck!
Been to any good book burnings lately?[/quote]
You have an amazing distorted image of me in your head. I say fuck throughout the day when I get irritated or mad, but I don’t go around to people saying it when I get into discussions with them. There isn’t anything wrong with having some manners and class.
You didn’t answer my question.
[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
You must have a really hard time living in America. Christian men and women with Christian principles founded this country. Don’t worry though, they were all crazy too, just like Steveo and I.
[/quote]
Would Christians have revolted?
“For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft.” 1 Samuel, 15:23
1 Peter 2:13: “For the Lord’s sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right.”
Romans 13:1: “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
George Washington:
The first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
Thomas Jefferson speaking about George Washington:
[Washington] had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
Jefferson again:
Among the sayings and discourses imputed to [Jesus] by His biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same Being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore to Him the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of His disciples. Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great . . . corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus.
More Jefferson:
The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
Jefferson wrote to John Adams, January 24, 1814 that the divine aspects of Christ were “the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.”
Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the gospels; he was uncomfortable with any reference to miracles, so with two copies of the New Testament, he cut and pasted them together, excising all references to miracles, from turning water to wine, to the resurrection.
Jefferson:
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
Jefferson:
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
Jefferson:
It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests.
Jefferson:
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.
Jefferson:
It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it.
Jefferson:
The priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, are as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore.
Jefferson:
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
Jefferson:
They [preachers] dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.
Jefferson:
I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
Jefferson:
We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.
Jefferson:
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law.
John Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
Adams:
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
Adams:
God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world.
Adams:
Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?
Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.
More Paine:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of…Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
Paine on the New Testament:
I hold [it] to be fabulous and have shown [it] to be false.
Paine:
The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.
Paine:
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Paine:
What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.
Paine:
Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies.
Paine:
The story of Jesus Christ appearing after he was dead is the story of an apparition, such as timid imaginations can always create in vision, and credulity believe. Stories of this kind had been told of the assassination of Julius Caesar.
Paine:
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
James Madison:
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.
More Madison:
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
Ethan Allen:
That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words.
Allen admitted to usually being:
denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.
When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised “to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God.” Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those “written in the great book of nature.”
Benjamin Franklin:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion…has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho’ it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.
Franklin:
… Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.
Franklin:
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
Franklin:
In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it.
[quote]doogie wrote:
Would Christians have revolted?[/quote]
We do have our bitter disagreements in many areas, but this is NOT one of them, and I have to say that this was indeed a great post, doogie.
[quote]hspder wrote:
doogie wrote:
Would Christians have revolted?
We do have our bitter disagreements in many areas, but this is NOT one of them, and I have to say that this was indeed a great post, doogie.
[/quote]
I hope you don’t really think our disagreements are “bitter.”
[quote]doogie wrote:
I hope you don’t really think our disagreements are “bitter.”[/quote]
Depends on the definition of bitter… I was thinking “marked by intensity or severity”. 
Doogie, that was one of the best posts ever on this forum, thanks.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Time to bump this thread boys!
Enough of the stuff that matters least – how about the stuff that matters the most!
[b]YOUR ETERNAL SOULS[/b]
All questions are welcome about sin, salvation, and eternal life. I would ask that you refrain from 4-letter words and personal attacks. If you resort to those, I will assume you are not interested in where you will be spending eternity and will not answer you.
Let me just tell you that I have spent the last week in the hospital recovering from a heart procedure to correct an abnormal rhythm. While my procedure went extremely well, and I will be making a 100% recovery, this episode served to remind me of the following:
[b]
(1) Life is very very short!
(2) Life is very very precious!’
(3) We are all eternal beings with an eternal destiny!
(4) We only get “one crack” at salvation in this life. When it is over – it’s over!
(5) Thank God that I am saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ!
How about you?..[/quote]
Dude, why are you wasting your time with this? I say this as a Christian, that this is pointless evangelism. You’re on an internet forum, on a BODYBUILDING website, a sport/pursuit devoted in large part to vanity, where the biggest threads are T&A. If you get a single convert from this thread, the the Lord works in REALLY mysterious ways.
Also, all the respect in the world to people trying to spread the Good News, but I don’t think you can persuade or argue people into becoming Christians. You either believe in God, or you have a moment or time when you find God. That’s why I don’t really bother trying to convert the many atheists I know, some of whom are very close friends; I pray for them, and I think that’s all I can really do besides trying to show a positive model of the faith.
Just my opinion, but I think this internet evangelism, especially here, is retarded.
[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Then you must hate Jesus – because He certainly showed what people should believe in the face of those who didn’t want to hear Him.
You are too much of an idiot to have any sort of productive relationship with Jesus.[/quote]
So now, Vroom, you’re God? You can see into my heart? You know my faith?
I give you clear Biblical teaching and all you can do is call me (someone who you don’t know) names.
You purport to be intelligent, but you simply crumble at the thought of bowing your knee to God, don’t you? Well, you had better, because the Bible says that if you don’t you are doomed, Vroom.[quote]
Believing does NOT require injecting yourself into the lives of others. In fact, doing so, when people don’t want to hear your fanatical ranting is only serving to drive people away.[/quote]
Not according to what Jesus did. Read the Bible for yourself. In fact, the Lord’s final “marching orders” was for belivers to “go into all the world and preach the Gospel” (the good news of Christ). Well, thanks to the internet, we can reach the world right from our computers! Praise God for technology![quote]
Jesus said: “He that hateth me, hateth my Father also.”
The day you become Jesus, you just let me know.[/quote]
Huh? The verse means that if you express hatred for believers, you are hating Jesus and thus you hate God. Simple, Vroom, when you read and comprehend the Bible![quote]
Therefore, if you hate Jesus, you hate Chrisitans. Jesus said, “he that is not for me, is against me…”
Okay, look, I know you failed elementary logic. I don’t hate anything you retard. [/quote]
Sure you do…it comes drooling out of your brain and into your fingers as you type these wonderful, helpful, messages.[quote]
Where the fuck do you get this stuff? I wish God would have granted you some brains…[/quote]
I get it from the Bible. You know, I may not have brains, according to you, but I use much nicer vocabulary to express my ideas as compared to you Vroom. Again, the expression of hatred toward the things of God.
Very sad…[quote]
See Vroom, what I am saying is Biblical…no “persecution problem” here. Just following God’s Holy Word.
Man, if you twist God’s word any more than you have, to serve your own purpose, I’m sure you’ll be going to hell in a handbasket.[/quote]
Twist it – I am quoting it, Vroom. Get it I am quoting it – you cannot twist something if you simply quote it. Think![quote]
You are an idiot. You and Emu will be happy together.[/quote]
We will in the joy of our Lord. You can be too, if you humble yourself before God, Vroom.
Again, it is the Christians that you choose to express disdain for. You are simply proving that you need salvation.
Why don’t you read the Gospel of John for yourself and ask God to show you His truth, Vroom. Eternity awaits!
Take care!
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Doogie, that was fucking hysterical.
And SteveO and Emu, all you people do is drive folks away from your crazed cult. You guys are fucking crazy…and I think you’re the same guy.
Which is good, because the world has one less moron than I think it does.[/quote]
Hate to disappoint you Irish, but you are wrong. I have not the time to be myself, no less another person.
Anyway, in the final analysis, it doesn’t matter what I think, or what Emu thinks, or what YOU think.
What matters is what God says, and what Jesus did, and what YOU, Irish, will do with the free gift of salvation that awaits you if you will humble yourself before the Lord, and believe.
Eternity awaits you as it does us all, Irish. We cannot live here on earth forever, but we will somewhere. It is Heaven or Hell – no exceptions and no other choices!
[quote]vroom wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
I’ll check back here every couple of months and the sad thing is - FightinIrish, Vroom, Doogie, etc will all be here with their same rude, condesending tones just watching and waiting for someone who they can act this way to. All from thousands of miles away from each other. How sad…
No, the rudeness and condesending attitudes are reserved for holier than thou assholes like yourself.
There is a big difference between being a Christian, which is an admirable thing, and going around annoying the hell out of everyone because you are a fanatic about it.
Most Christians are not fanatics about it… and many Christians also laugh at fanatics like yourself and Steveo.[/quote]
Vroom, most people who call themselves anything doesn’t mean they follow what they say they believe.
If you would stop posting and go to the Bible and read it, you will see that people like me are, indeed, following true Christianity.
I am sorry that you are annoyed and uncomfortable, but you know, it is better for this and that you come to the truth, than you perish and go to Hell.
Look, if I were passing an apartment building from the street and the building was on fire, would it matter that the people didn’t believe it was on fire for me to go in and pull them out? Would anyone think I was crazy for going in and banging on everyone’s door – whether they believe me or not – and telling everyone to get out? What kind of a monster would I be if I just passed by and did nothing. However, that is what you seem to be prasing others for – just passing by, while you ridicule those who are attempting to pull precious souls from the flames of Hell.
Just think about it…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I wish we could be certain that the Jesus depicted in the Bible was a true and accurate portrait. [/quote]
Fulfilled prophecy shows strongly that the Bible is true. If the Bible is true, then what it says about Jesus is true, etc. etc. etc.
[quote]DPH wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I wish we could be certain that the Jesus depicted in the Bible was a true and accurate portrait.
but we can’t…
that’s where the concept of faith comes in…[/quote]
Oh, but we can. Yes, we must have faith, but it is not “blind” faith as some would suggest.
There are significant ways that one’s faith can be bolstered with rational evidence that proves the existence of the Jesus of the Bible.
[quote]vroom wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Please explain how I have acted “holier than thou”. To be honest with you, I don’t even go to church regularly, nor do I act like I’m better than anyone else. You on the other hand act as if you are your own god who knows all and has the final say in everything.
We all have the final say in our own actions during our lives…
I won’t claim to know anything or to be making the appropriate actions. You might, I don’t know.
Oh, because you like it so much, here’s some choice words for you…
Fuck, Fuck, Fuckity, Fuck-Fuck!
Been to any good book burnings lately?[/quote]
We have the final say, but God is the final judge!
Here are some words for you, Vroom:
Jesus, Jesus Christ, Jesus is Lord, Christ Jesus, Messiah, Messiah Jesus, The Holy One of Israel…
…Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, the sweetest name I know…!!!
[quote]doogie wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
You must have a really hard time living in America. Christian men and women with Christian principles founded this country. Don’t worry though, they were all crazy too, just like Steveo and I.
Would Christians have revolted?
“For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft.” 1 Samuel, 15:23
1 Peter 2:13: “For the Lord’s sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right.”
Romans 13:1: “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
George Washington:
The first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
Thomas Jefferson speaking about George Washington:
[Washington] had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.
Jefferson again:
Among the sayings and discourses imputed to [Jesus] by His biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same Being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore to Him the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of His disciples. Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great . . . corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus.
More Jefferson:
The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
Jefferson wrote to John Adams, January 24, 1814 that the divine aspects of Christ were “the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.”
Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the gospels; he was uncomfortable with any reference to miracles, so with two copies of the New Testament, he cut and pasted them together, excising all references to miracles, from turning water to wine, to the resurrection.
Jefferson:
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
Jefferson:
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
Jefferson:
It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests.
Jefferson:
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.
Jefferson:
It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it.
Jefferson:
The priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, are as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore.
Jefferson:
I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
Jefferson:
They [preachers] dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.
Jefferson:
I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
Jefferson:
We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.
Jefferson:
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law.
John Adams:
The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
Adams:
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
Adams:
God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world.
Adams:
Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?
Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).
Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).
It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.
Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.
The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.
More Paine:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of…Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
Paine on the New Testament:
I hold [it] to be fabulous and have shown [it] to be false.
Paine:
The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.
Paine:
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Paine:
What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.
Paine:
Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies.
Paine:
The story of Jesus Christ appearing after he was dead is the story of an apparition, such as timid imaginations can always create in vision, and credulity believe. Stories of this kind had been told of the assassination of Julius Caesar.
Paine:
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
James Madison:
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.
More Madison:
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
Ethan Allen:
That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words.
Allen admitted to usually being:
denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.
When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised “to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God.” Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those “written in the great book of nature.”
Benjamin Franklin:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion…has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho’ it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.
Franklin:
… Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.
Franklin:
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
Franklin:
In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it.
[/quote]
This is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a long time!
Who cares what quotes people say?
God is the final judge – what are YOU going to say to Him when you meet Him?
Oh, others told me that you weren’t real? Oh, Jefferson said this, Washington said this…who cares?
YOU – Doogie – are responsible for what you do with the knowledge that you are a sinner, you cannot save yourself, Jesus died for YOU, and that YOU must bow the knee and humble yourself, as a little child, and place your trust and faith in Him.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Time to bump this thread boys!
Enough of the stuff that matters least – how about the stuff that matters the most!
[b]YOUR ETERNAL SOULS[/b]
All questions are welcome about sin, salvation, and eternal life. I would ask that you refrain from 4-letter words and personal attacks. If you resort to those, I will assume you are not interested in where you will be spending eternity and will not answer you.
Let me just tell you that I have spent the last week in the hospital recovering from a heart procedure to correct an abnormal rhythm. While my procedure went extremely well, and I will be making a 100% recovery, this episode served to remind me of the following:
[b]
(1) Life is very very short!
(2) Life is very very precious!’
(3) We are all eternal beings with an eternal destiny!
(4) We only get “one crack” at salvation in this life. When it is over – it’s over!
(5) Thank God that I am saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ!
How about you?..
Dude, why are you wasting your time with this? I say this as a Christian, that this is pointless evangelism. You’re on an internet forum, on a BODYBUILDING website, a sport/pursuit devoted in large part to vanity, where the biggest threads are T&A. If you get a single convert from this thread, the the Lord works in REALLY mysterious ways.
Also, all the respect in the world to people trying to spread the Good News, but I don’t think you can persuade or argue people into becoming Christians. You either believe in God, or you have a moment or time when you find God. That’s why I don’t really bother trying to convert the many atheists I know, some of whom are very close friends; I pray for them, and I think that’s all I can really do besides trying to show a positive model of the faith.
Just my opinion, but I think this internet evangelism, especially here, is retarded.[/quote]
You have every right to your opinion.
I disagree.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
DPH wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I wish we could be certain that the Jesus depicted in the Bible was a true and accurate portrait.
but we can’t…
that’s where the concept of faith comes in…
Oh, but we can. Yes, we must have faith, but it is not “blind” faith as some would suggest.
There are significant ways that one’s faith can be bolstered with rational evidence that proves the existence of the Jesus of the Bible.
[/quote]
‘shows strongly’ and ‘certainty’ are not the same thing…it still boils down to having faith…
muslims say that the koran ‘shows strongly’ (through prophecy) that the koran is all true…therefore is it certain that the koran is all true?
faith my friend…
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Who cares what quotes people say?[/quote]
I guess it’s okay to quote Luke, Matthew, Mark, etc., to make a point though, huh?
steveo, I sense much fear in you. Let go of the the dark side, and come to the light. Let go of your fear and hostility. I can feel the torment inside of your heart. Let go.
Accept piracy. Accept wenching. Let the joy of ale and kicking asses fill you with truth. Let go of reason and accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your savior, and learn the real (not fake)rapture of a clean soul.
You can do it. It’s up to you to find that beer volcano inside of your heart, and indeed… in all of us.
Arrrr! Ramen.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
YOU – Doogie – are responsible for what you do with the knowledge that you are a sinner, you cannot save yourself, Jesus died for YOU, and that YOU must bow the knee and humble yourself, as a little child, and place your trust and faith in Him.[/quote]
I’m a sinner? This is the first I’ve heard of it. Could you please elaborate at great lengths as to what exactly my sins are?
I cannot save myself? I wasn’t even aware that I was in any danger. Could you please elaborate at great lengths on what I need to save myself from?
Jesus died for me. You can’t pin that on me. I wasn’t there. I don’t even know the guy. Why would he die for me? Does this have something to do with the danger you say I’m in? Is it somehow related to my being a sinner?
Why must I bow the knee and humble myself as a little child? I told you, I didn’t even know this Jesus guy.
Wait. Do you and this Jesus fellow really make little children “bow the knee and humble” themself? That sounds sick and illegal, perv.
Why would I place my trust and faith in some perv who not only molests kids but also tried to pin his death on me?
This all so very confusing.