Anybody mention Kool Kieth yet? He’s quite possibly my favorite Hip Hop weirdo/madman, with ODB and him neck and neck.
Also, Deltron 3030 is one of the best albums ever made
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I am a big fan of tribe and all of native toungue for that matter, I have no idea why anyone calls it alternative because there is nothing alternative about Tribe or De La. While certainly not the most influential groups of all time…there is no doubt that Tribe is influential, in fact I would think Tribe was influential to the pharcyde. I would have to agree about Pharcyde, while some great singles and interesting, influential may be going a bit far. It can be said that the Native Tongue crew (JBs, De La Soul, Red Alert,Tribe and Prince Paul) were and are great influences to hip hop period. Though if asked I would say they would take great exzception with the alternative label.
Tribes rhymes were always well thought out complex (at times) and scanned the realm of possibilities. While maybe not as influential or a trend setter say such as Schooly D, but certainly better and more talented (IMO) but Im not gonna call Schooly D a fag just because I kind think his stuff is a bit simple.
What do you mean “were you there?” I consider myself there. As a 13 year old, sneaking into shows, taping Mr. Magic and Red alert on the radio, loving all the music and idolizing them as a child. Does that mean there? I lived and ate the music because I loved and still love it. No I wasnt down with Run-DMC or the Juice Crew or BDP, does that mean I wasnt there? I dont get that, I was in love with it so I was there.
I would have to say also your in quite the minority when talking about Brand Nubian as well, when considering simply their singles, (Brand Nubian, Slow Down, All for one, Hold On, Love me or leave me alone) to name of few makes them a classic hip hop group.
[/quote]
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written…its always a matter of personal taste and perspective. Tribe I definitely don’t consider “alternative” but pharcyde is. De la…borderline. If you take their work as a whole, I consider them borderline. If you take their hits, no.
Schooly D a fag? Is that a response to me calling tip gay? Because I think he’s gay. Schooly D is not gay, but was most defitely a poser, but he was one of the progenitors of gangster rap, pretender that he was notwithstanding.
How was I “there”? I started DJing in 79 as a freshman in high school. Been to New Years parties in Englewood with the old Sugarhill record people. Been to the parties in the parks, battled many a philly / nj dj in my day, etc. I never implied “you” weren’t there…just that I was. A good friend was a promoter in those days in my neck of the woods. yes, I remember red alert, etc. We used to try real hard to get the NY stations from s. jersey…we used to get a static filled 92 KTU back in the day with those master mixes. I could go on forever, but you get the point 
I wasn’t implying I was some authority - only that I had some perspective.
As to Brand Nubian, again its personal. I was never a fan of that genre or any of the “afrocentric” stuff. To me, hip hop is and always represents “street” to me because I remember the parks, the house parties, the basement parties, the block parties, the battles. So I’ll always lean toward the grimy rugged stuff from kool g rap on up…and of course, my heart is really with the DJ I had old tapes of Grandmaster Flash spinning at parties cutting bounce rock skate roll, working one of the first drum machines, all kinds of shit that i wish i never lost…even an old busy bee rapping about “i’m dj bust a nut, in your face and in your butt”…lol. yes, i was “there”.
Bodyguard I agree with your ramblings to a degree. I don’t thukn The Pharcyde can be considered influental never mind the most influential. they made one 4 star album but it was hardly an epoch shattering influence on the direction of rap music
That list you printed is a pile of shit though. Kool Keith at 98!!! That’s bollocks for a start. He should have been in the top ten considering a whole LOTTA rappers stole or emulated his style to a degree. Hell Public Enemy said that Critical Beatdown was the BIGGEST influence on them while making the seminal It Takes A Nation… So if they influenced what your list deems to be the SECOND most influential band then why the fuck is Keith at 98 yo!
ATCQ are hefty influential as well. Pharrel williams has pretty much ripped of the Midnight Marauders album in his whole career.
I see, I agree with you as well, I did assume when you said you were there you were meaning just because I was a mere “die hard fan” I wasnt. But I see where your coming from and respect it. But the nubians had some street shit too “punks jump up” was pretty grimy. And to me Kool G Rap is one of the top 5 best MCees ever and severely underrated.
I still have old Mr. Magic rap attack tapes as well Red Alert on Kiss, man I loved that stuff and still look back on it with so much love.
On that note RIP Mr. Magic,you will always be missed.
So you are saying Qtip is really a fag? Ok you gotta tell me why you say this, is he the infamous “gay rapper” that they always talked about in the source?
Good dialogue bro…I can talk about this shit forever.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
MattyXL wrote:
I am a big fan of tribe and all of native toungue for that matter, I have no idea why anyone calls it alternative because there is nothing alternative about Tribe or De La. While certainly not the most influential groups of all time…there is no doubt that Tribe is influential, in fact I would think Tribe was influential to the pharcyde. I would have to agree about Pharcyde, while some great singles and interesting, influential may be going a bit far. It can be said that the Native Tongue crew (JBs, De La Soul, Red Alert,Tribe and Prince Paul) were and are great influences to hip hop period. Though if asked I would say they would take great exzception with the alternative label.
Tribes rhymes were always well thought out complex (at times) and scanned the realm of possibilities. While maybe not as influential or a trend setter say such as Schooly D, but certainly better and more talented (IMO) but Im not gonna call Schooly D a fag just because I kind think his stuff is a bit simple.
What do you mean “were you there?” I consider myself there. As a 13 year old, sneaking into shows, taping Mr. Magic and Red alert on the radio, loving all the music and idolizing them as a child. Does that mean there? I lived and ate the music because I loved and still love it. No I wasnt down with Run-DMC or the Juice Crew or BDP, does that mean I wasnt there? I dont get that, I was in love with it so I was there.
I would have to say also your in quite the minority when talking about Brand Nubian as well, when considering simply their singles, (Brand Nubian, Slow Down, All for one, Hold On, Love me or leave me alone) to name of few makes them a classic hip hop group.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written…its always a matter of personal taste and perspective. Tribe I definitely don’t consider “alternative” but pharcyde is. De la…borderline. If you take their work as a whole, I consider them borderline. If you take their hits, no.
Schooly D a fag? Is that a response to me calling tip gay? Because I think he’s gay. Schooly D is not gay, but was most defitely a poser, but he was one of the progenitors of gangster rap, pretender that he was notwithstanding.
How was I “there”? I started DJing in 79 as a freshman in high school. Been to New Years parties in Englewood with the old Sugarhill record people. Been to the parties in the parks, battled many a philly / nj dj in my day, etc. I never implied “you” weren’t there…just that I was. A good friend was a promoter in those days in my neck of the woods. yes, I remember red alert, etc. We used to try real hard to get the NY stations from s. jersey…we used to get a static filled 92 KTU back in the day with those master mixes. I could go on forever, but you get the point I wasn’t implying I was some authority - only that I had some perspective.
As to Brand Nubian, again its personal. I was never a fan of that genre or any of the “afrocentric” stuff. To me, hip hop is and always represents “street” to me because I remember the parks, the house parties, the basement parties, the block parties, the battles. So I’ll always lean toward the grimy rugged stuff from kool g rap on up…and of course, my heart is really with the DJ I had old tapes of Grandmaster Flash spinning at parties cutting bounce rock skate roll, working one of the first drum machines, all kinds of shit that i wish i never lost…even an old busy bee rapping about “i’m dj bust a nut, in your face and in your butt”…lol. yes, i was “there”.
[/quote]
[quote]Jack Urboady wrote:
Bodyguard I agree with your ramblings to a degree. I don’t thukn The Pharcyde can be considered influental never mind the most influential. they made one 4 star album but it was hardly an epoch shattering influence on the direction of rap music
That list you printed is a pile of shit though. Kool Keith at 98!!! That’s bollocks for a start. He should have been in the top ten considering a whole LOTTA rappers stole or emulated his style to a degree. Hell Public Enemy said that Critical Beatdown was the BIGGEST influence on them while making the seminal It Takes A Nation… So if they influenced what your list deems to be the SECOND most influential band then why the fuck is Keith at 98 yo!
ATCQ are hefty influential as well. Pharrel williams has pretty much ripped of the Midnight Marauders album in his whole career.[/quote]
Jack I’m not cosigning the list or even in agreement with it per se i was just illustrating a point
Yes Matty fond fucking memories. You have to remember my roots in this as a battle and house party dj. Whenever hip hop went off in political or alternative directions it lost me. For me it was always about the street and the life. Public enemy my Uzi weighs a ton moves me that political black power shit you can have…bdp Scott la rock is a super ho moves me listen to my 9mm the same… The politics?
Later for that shit - it’s no less an expression of hip hop but just not my twist music is highly personal man I miss those old kiss days…ny radio was doing the damn thing back then. I wish I never gave up the crates or my 1200s but I wanted to live that fast life back then…wasn’t the same money in it back then!
^ I certainly respect that. Many people change with the times along with their likes and dislikes. For one person to stick with what they like and not be moved by whats more popular at the time is impressive. Myself While I was young maybe 13 or 14 when the BDP Bridge wars was going on my friends and I were so into it because we were from Queens and lived by Queensbridge projects. You would think we were fucking related to Marley Marl and Shan we so amped about the battle.
The fact is we just were proud to be part of the scene and our borough. I miss that. Come to find out the battle had nothing to do with where hip hop started, it really was only because Mr. Magic wouldnt play BDP…so KRS ran with it, and admittedly, tore us a new asshole (verbally that is lol)
Memories man! True story… Marley Marl brought Roxanne Shante down to Philly to perform at the old after midnight club when it was on cherry street …lol they came down on greyhound. My mc at the time wanted to talk some shit so we in the bus station and he challenging her to battle then and there cause Marly talkin shit and I’m diggin in my pocket for my knot cause my money on my man - he was a ridiculous battle mc - a true freestyle master… Long story short we had a chance to run them back to ny but my arrogant ass was like fuck them i ain’t runnin them scrubs to ny lol…nevermind trying to make a connect etc. True story…lol @ greyhound like I said the money wasn’t there back then…
Awesome…shit Shante would of been easy pickens since Kane ghost writed all her rhymes anyways. Now if Craig G was there I woulda paid to see that shit.
Theres a rumor going on that there is supposed to be a movie called “The Vapors” about the Juice Crew. I cant wait. But I heard Cuba Gooding Jr, is going play Marley Marl…now that is awful.
West Coast or East Coast? Gotta ask.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Dude, why do you insist on arguing when you’re so clearly wrong? The TRUTH is that bands like A Tribe Called Quest and The Pharcyde are two of the most influential bands in hip hop history. That indesputable fact can’t be argued, and trying to do so is like puting white walls on a garbage truck: it don’t make sense. When I was playing with my power rangers and bumping 97.9 you should’ve taken your headphones off and listened to what was going on around you instead of just what you had in your record crate.
Who did these alternative rap groups influence? The likes of de la soul? Only a white kid from Texas would argue that an alternative rap group was “two of the most influential bands in hip hop history”. That statement is just plain IGNORANT. State your case.[/quote]
Are you serious? My case is that Tribe directly influenced an entire culture and era, the way people spoke, dressed and carried themselves, not to mention literally countless numbers of hip hop acts that followed. So did groups like PE, Eric B and Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, The Pharcyde, etc… and now that style seems to be coming back. And as a “dj” [you sure have done a lot in your life…] you should know that de la soul came out before these two groups I mentioned.
Also, what the fuck does my being white and from Texas have to do with anything? I arbitrarily picked two groups, one from right around your way and one from Cali. I also mentioned two very popular bands [especially from the time in question] from your own state and you called them “obscure” while siding with a band that outside of one super commercial hit no one would know about.
^ you have to listen to this one, one of my favorite songs Celly Cel & Spice 1 - Red Rum
^another great one Celly Cel - What You NIggaz Thought
^ some 2pac - Troublesome '96
^awesome BIG - Who Shot Ya smooth flow but Diddy sort of fucked it up with his redundant “as we proceed…”
^10 crack commandments biggie smalls
sick beat and good flow like always
^dead presidents by Jay Z and the second one is good too
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Are you serious? My case is that Tribe directly influenced an entire culture and era, the way people spoke, dressed and carried themselves, not to mention literally countless numbers of hip hop acts that followed. So did groups like PE, Eric B and Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, The Pharcyde, etc… and now that style seems to be coming back. And as a “dj” [you sure have done a lot in your life…] you should know that de la soul came out before these two groups I mentioned.
Also, what the fuck does my being white and from Texas have to do with anything? I arbitrarily picked two groups, one from right around your way and one from Cali. I also mentioned two very popular bands [especially from the time in question] from your own state and you called them “obscure” while siding with a band that outside of one super commercial hit no one would know about.[/quote]
You are seriously off and your problem is one of time and location. Number one, you weren’t there then. You were too young. You might have listened on the radio from Texas, but not here. The reason I say that, is because Tribe didn’t influence the way ANYONE around here dressed - perhaps you guys in Texas emulated that, but Tribe, PE, etc., to the extent they were dressing any certain way, were dressing the way WE WERE ALREADY DRESSING IN THESE PARTS. They didn’t “invent” the vernacular, the clothes, the swagger - they took it because they lived it here and they took it onstage for the rest of the country (you) could see and emulate it. You have it twisted.
To use a local example, someone from another part of the country might say Jazzy Jeff in his early years popularized le coq sportif sweatsuits - when in fact we were all wearing them in philly anyway at that time…he was a product of his environment…just as tribe, et als, were products of theirs. If you’re not living here, and you watching this stuff on TV or listening on the radio, you don’t get that.
As to the rest of it, you’re entitled to your opinions and yours are as good as the next man. I still think pharcyde is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and I’ve already given more than enough explanation for what moves me personally and what I consider hip hop. As for de la soul, if they hadn’t sampled parliament - another of my early influences, I’d have never listened to them…ever. Not my style. Pot holes in my lawn my ass. LOL
And yes, I’ve done alot in my life but I’m also older than you. You don’t know the half of it and probably wouldn’t believe the truth anyway.
Matty, I forgot to respond to the gay thing. I’m not sure who they are alluding to. I know a very big name that is definitely gay but I don’t want that to become a thread unto itself. So I’m not sure if they would have been referring to him or someone else. There have been lots of rumors about various guys. I’ve always felt pretty clear that tip is gay.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Are you serious? My case is that Tribe directly influenced an entire culture and era, the way people spoke, dressed and carried themselves, not to mention literally countless numbers of hip hop acts that followed. So did groups like PE, Eric B and Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, The Pharcyde, etc… and now that style seems to be coming back. And as a “dj” [you sure have done a lot in your life…] you should know that de la soul came out before these two groups I mentioned.
Also, what the fuck does my being white and from Texas have to do with anything? I arbitrarily picked two groups, one from right around your way and one from Cali. I also mentioned two very popular bands [especially from the time in question] from your own state and you called them “obscure” while siding with a band that outside of one super commercial hit no one would know about.
You are seriously off and your problem is one of time and location. Number one, you weren’t there then. You were too young. You might have listened on the radio from Texas, but not here. The reason I say that, is because Tribe didn’t influence the way ANYONE around here dressed - perhaps you guys in Texas emulated that, but Tribe, PE, etc., to the extent they were dressing any certain way, were dressing the way WE WERE ALREADY DRESSING IN THESE PARTS. They didn’t “invent” the vernacular, the clothes, the swagger - they took it because they lived it here and they took it onstage for the rest of the country (you) could see and emulate it. You have it twisted.
To use a local example, someone from another part of the country might say Jazzy Jeff in his early years popularized le coq sportif sweatsuits - when in fact we were all wearing them in philly anyway at that time…he was a product of his environment…just as tribe, et als, were products of theirs. If you’re not living here, and you watching this stuff on TV or listening on the radio, you don’t get that.
As to the rest of it, you’re entitled to your opinions and yours are as good as the next man. I still think pharcyde is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and I’ve already given more than enough explanation for what moves me personally and what I consider hip hop. As for de la soul, if they hadn’t sampled parliament - another of my early influences, I’d have never listened to them…ever. Not my style. Pot holes in my lawn my ass. LOL
And yes, I’ve done alot in my life but I’m also older than you. You don’t know the half of it and probably wouldn’t believe the truth anyway.[/quote]
Trust me man, I’m from the land of starched jeans and bald fades, and everyone around here was doing that, saying “crunk” and sippin’ surb long before the rest of the country caught on. Where I’m going with that is I said “era” not “area”. The East coast has a certain look, as does the West, and the South. Don’t know much about the North other than they like flanel so can’t comment on that.
When I said “influenced people” I meant they brought a whole different style and sound to a region that wouldn’t have been exposed to it otherwise, and people in that region adopted it. I never said Jersey or NY did what Tribe did. You’re entitled to like whatever and whoever you want, but have to give credit where credit is due. Also, at 27 I’ve lived a more interesting life than anyone I know and I say that without a hint of arrogance, so you’d be surprised what I believe.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Awesome…shit Shante would of been easy pickens since Kane ghost writed all her rhymes anyways. Now if Craig G was there I woulda paid to see that shit.
Theres a rumor going on that there is supposed to be a movie called “The Vapors” about the Juice Crew. I cant wait. But I heard Cuba Gooding Jr, is going play Marley Marl…now that is awful. [/quote]
It was all good…not even fair really…shit she was about 14 and we were just hating cause she was “on” and we weren’t. Well, I also didn’t respect Marly as a DJ either so…but they ended up being cool and my boy wanted to give them the ride but I was like fuck no. I’m pretty sure I didn’t even go inside to see them perform. Did see captain rock perform there in that little underground club and although i was no big fan, he had a young 16 year old human beatbox that tore shit up for real…you would have loved the old after midnight here in philly. as female rappers go, roxanne deserves to be mentioned among “influential” and she tore shit up on big mama.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Trust me man, I’m from the land of starched jeans and bald fades, and everyone around here was doing that, saying “crunk” and sippin’ surb long before the rest of the country caught on. e.[/quote]
LOL well we don’t do that around here. We don’t emulate the rest of the country. That’s a fact. So I guess we never caught on Matty, when was the last time you said let’s get crunk? LOL. It would probably be the first time.
I heard one rumor that Raekwon from wu-tang was gay…YIKES!
As far as female mcees go, it never got any better then early MC Lyte for me, her voice was great, totally looked like any girl from the neighborhood. Cha Cha Cha, %10 diss and paper thin was the shit, and her battle with Antoinette was another classic mc battle. I will always be a Marley and Juice crew fan…The symphony is an all time classic! Even though Shan was absolutely terrible, Project Ho was a great song…Im still looking for his single called Feed the World, in which KRS says the classic line “you got dropped off MCA cuz the rhymes you wrote were wack!” Cant find that shit anywhere.
Craig G was a great freestyler and was super underrated…he destroyed supernatural years ago.
But what both you guys say is true, these guys were products of the enviornment and while what they wore or did or spoke of was nothing new to them it was new to everyone else…shit I had no Idea of Crunk and all that other shit…sipping on cough syrup or whatever you guys did lol.
admittedly im still not sure what it means LOL.