Poliquin Recycling

Training Bodybuilding
141

I dunno about that, think of all the people that have to stay in a vertain weight class Powerlifters/ Olympians etc etc. who cant go above a set weight but still add many many lbs to the bar… as for making progress neurally forever, im not a neuro scientist so its not my area but i would there is ALOT more the averag gym rat can do without ever gaining weight.

As for the final part im nearing the 270lb weight now, should get there in 2-3 months so i KNOW what i needed to get there and its heavy weight + lots of food.

Im just not built for lots of reps id fall asleep doing anything over 8+ reps, but i see some big mofo’s doing only 30kg er squats for months on end and not improving they are the people that get the 40kg guys going ITS ALL ROIDZ 11!!!

142

[quote]300andabove wrote:
I dunno about that, think of all the people that have to stay in a vertain weight class Powerlifters/ Olympians etc etc. who cant go above a set weight but still add many many lbs to the bar.
[/quote]

What about them? They will hit a ceiling in the weight they can use if they NEVER gain any more muscle mass. That is why the strongest people in the world are usually also carrying more lean body mass than most.

[quote]
… as for making progress neurally forever, im not a neuro scientist so its not my area but i would there is ALOT more the averag gym rat can do without ever gaining weight.[/quote]

Uh, if someone’s goal is to remain at the exact same weight forever, they need to accept that eventually, they will NOT make more progress in strength because once they have “learned” to do an exercise more efficiently, that is all there is to it. Gaining more muscle is the rest of the equation for those who are trying to actually be one of the strongest.

[quote]
As for the final part im nearing the 270lb weight now, should get there in 2-3 months so i KNOW what i needed to get there and its heavy weight + lots of food.

Im just not built for lots of reps id fall asleep doing anything over 8+ reps, but i see some big mofo’s doing only 30kg er squats for months on end and not improving they are the people that get the 40kg guys going ITS ALL ROIDZ 11!!![/quote]

If they aren’t improving then what do they have to do with this discussion?

Shawn Ray stated he never went above 3 plates a side for squats. He also made the LEAST changes in how he looked over the entire course of his bodybuilding career.

143

Ah good point.

144

The reason why I mentioned pro athletes as well is because even if I were to pay attention to “Eastern” innovations, I can still see that the USA is doing just fine in sports.

The OP made this thread in a bodybuilding forum, stating that many gurus on here re-hash Poliquin’s writings. The thing is that these PTs’ and Poliquin’s writings do not pertain to bodybuilding in the first place. I can’t think of one natural or drug-aided competitor that uses a routine even remotely similar to Waterbury’s, King’s, Cosgrove’s, and others’ methods.

145

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The reason why I mentioned pro athletes as well is because even if I were to pay attention to “Eastern” innovations, I can still see that the USA is doing just fine in sports.

The OP made this thread in a bodybuilding forum, stating that many gurus on here re-hash Poliquin’s writings. The thing is that these PTs’ and Poliquin’s writings do not pertain to bodybuilding in the first place. I can’t think of one natural or drug-aided competitor that uses a routine even remotely similar to Waterbury’s, King’s, Cosgrove’s, and others’ methods. [/quote]

Ah right, so your patriotic DA WEST IS DA BEST stance has receded ??

And how does Poliquin NOT contribute to bodybuilding ? You DO know he used to train and probably DOES train bodybuilders still ya ?

Do you honestly think CT has not taken some of Poliquins stuff and used it… Pierre Le Roy CT’s and Poliquins mentor i presume you also include in the bb’ers would never use methods ?? Try reading about him sometime…

And in regards to CT, where would you fit him in the PT’s and co section ?? happen to take look at CT recently ? He did a damn good job for not following “bodybuilding” methods of which you have so far outlined 0… can you name some ??

I would wager, they were around LONG before IFFB ever came to pass somehow, how did they get indoctrinated into the “BODYBUILDING METHODS” ??

Further would you include HIT in this ?? If you say yes, does that also include DC training ?? Where does the PTS(whatever they are) and co end and bodybuilding methods begin ???

I would SERIOUSLY open your eyes, and stop living in whatever fantasy world you think all bodybuilders live !

I am a bodybuilder, wanting to get to 300lbs before i cut down, but i can ASSURE you i use some of Poliquins stuff… as do many others.

So instead of your sweeping “…Poliquin’s writings do not pertain to bodybuilding in the first place”

Instead say IN MY OPINION “…”

That would be a better choice of words perhaps ?

I dont know who nominated you to speak for all bodybuilders on here, but maybe you should step outside whatever box you have yourself tied into sometime you might find you may spark new muscle.

146

Oh christ…

147

I have always considered Charles Poliquin vastly overrated. I’m sure he gets decent results, as many people do, but he is far from being the almighty God of physical training that he would have you believe he is. “The Five Elements” is easily one of the dumbest things that I have ever read on any subject. A few years ago he got owned badly by a gastroenterologist while pushing his pseudo-esoteric nutrition threories on the Supertraining list.

Oh, right, but Adam Nelson won gold in Helsinki while training under Poliquin, so that’s proof of his supremacy. Never mind that Nelson threw his PR in 2002, just give Charles all the credit for “producing” his results. After all, his certification program is ridiculously overpriced, so he must be correct, right?

I’m not usually inclined to bash coaches I disagree with, but I make an exception for CP. Somebody needs to.

148

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Professor X wrote:
and 250lbs just sounds huge 110kgs puts its more into perspective.
[/quote]

As a German (and as we all “know”, Germans are all about precision and bein scientific), I will not tolerate this blasphemy.

250 lbs = 113.333… Kg’s.

Sorry, just couldn’t help it.

149

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
The reason why I mentioned pro athletes as well is because even if I were to pay attention to “Eastern” innovations, I can still see that the USA is doing just fine in sports.

The OP made this thread in a bodybuilding forum, stating that many gurus on here re-hash Poliquin’s writings. The thing is that these PTs’ and Poliquin’s writings do not pertain to bodybuilding in the first place. I can’t think of one natural or drug-aided competitor that uses a routine even remotely similar to Waterbury’s, King’s, Cosgrove’s, and others’ methods.

Ah right, so your patriotic DA WEST IS DA BEST stance has receded ??

And how does Poliquin NOT contribute to bodybuilding ? You DO know he used to train and probably DOES train bodybuilders still ya ?

Do you honestly think CT has not taken some of Poliquins stuff and used it… Pierre Le Roy CT’s and Poliquins mentor i presume you also include in the bb’ers would never use methods ?? Try reading about him sometime…

And in regards to CT, where would you fit him in the PT’s and co section ?? happen to take look at CT recently ? He did a damn good job for not following “bodybuilding” methods of which you have so far outlined 0… can you name some ??

I would wager, they were around LONG before IFFB ever came to pass somehow, how did they get indoctrinated into the “BODYBUILDING METHODS” ??

Further would you include HIT in this ?? If you say yes, does that also include DC training ?? Where does the PTS(whatever they are) and co end and bodybuilding methods begin ???
[/quote] Mind not dragging DC into your argument? [quote]

I would SERIOUSLY open your eyes, and stop living in whatever fantasy world you think all bodybuilders live !

I am a bodybuilder, wanting to get to 300lbs before i cut down, but i can ASSURE you i use some of Poliquins stuff… as do many others.

So instead of your sweeping “…Poliquin’s writings do not pertain to bodybuilding in the first place”

Instead say IN MY OPINION “…”

That would be a better choice of words perhaps ?

I dont know who nominated you to speak for all bodybuilders on here, but maybe you should step outside whatever box you have yourself tied into sometime you might find you may spark new muscle.
[/quote]

150

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
300andabove wrote:
Professor X wrote:
and 250lbs just sounds huge 110kgs puts its more into perspective.

As a German (and as we all “know”, Germans are all about precision and bein scientific), I will not tolerate this blasphemy.

250 lbs = 113.333… Kg’s.

Sorry, just couldn’t help it.
[/quote]

LoL

151

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The reason why I mentioned pro athletes as well is because even if I were to pay attention to “Eastern” innovations, I can still see that the USA is doing just fine in sports.

The OP made this thread in a bodybuilding forum, stating that many gurus on here re-hash Poliquin’s writings. The thing is that these PTs’ and Poliquin’s writings do not pertain to bodybuilding in the first place. I can’t think of one natural or drug-aided competitor that uses a routine even remotely similar to Waterbury’s, King’s, Cosgrove’s, and others’ methods. [/quote]

Compared to some of the more recent authors the writings of King and Poliquin seem very bodybuilding oriented. lol

152

[quote]stockzy wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Something just came to my mind - althought it may not be a profound thought!

There is all this talk about Poliquin and others bringing things to “the West” that are so damn groundbreaking.

There is all of this damn fascination with “Eastern” secrets and last time I checked, the USA has some damn good athletes and we RULE the IFBB - I mean RULE it!

Ronnie, Jay Cutler, Dexter Jackson, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates … they were all from “DA WEST” and they none of them used any “Eastern” secrets for muscle building!

NOPE - no fancy periodization phases, no magical two-a-days similar to Bulgarian weightlifting campers, no personal docs and scientists, and I doubt any underground drugs! And they all did just fine in DA WEST! Ed Coan is from DA WEST and does just fine too and his training method is “outdated” and “antiquated”.

Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter, A-Rod, Tiger Woods are all from DA WEST and seem to be doing just fine too!

Olympic lifting is what he’s referring to when he talks about translating eastern european training journals. Here’s the world records in olympic lifting as of the end of athens 2004. I couldn’t find the 2008 records.

56kg - Snatch Halil MUTLU TUR 137.5 16 Sep 2000 Sydney, AUS
62kg - Snatch Zhiyong SHI CHN 152.5 16 Aug 2004 Athens, GRE
69kg - Snatch Georgi MARKOV BUL 165.0 20 Sep 2000 Sydney, AUS
77kg - Snatch Taner SAGIR TUR 172.5 19 Aug 2004 Athens, GRE
105kg - Snatch Dmitriy BERESTOV RUS 195.0 24 Aug 2004 Athens, GRE
105+ kg - SnatchHossein REZAZADEH IRI 212.5 26 Sep 2000 Sydney, AUS
56kg - Clean & Jerk Halil MUTLU TUR 167.5 16 Sep 2000 Sydney, AUS
69kg - Clean & Jerk Galabin BOEVSKI BUL 195.0 20 Sep 2000 Sydney, AUS
77kg - Clean & Jerk Xugang ZHAN CHN 207.5 22 Sep 2000 Sydney, AUS
105+ kg - Clean & Jerk Hossein REZAZADEH IRI 262.5 25 Aug 2004 Athens, GRE

If someone can find the current world records as of 2008 please post them.

Not a boy from “DA WEST” in site and they’ll all train at least twice a day using what you’d call a fancy periodisation program. So please, please never compare olympic lifting to body building ever again. [/quote]

very few people from the West participate in Olympic lifting. If they had the NFL over there things would be different.

153

[quote]300andabove wrote:
…

and finally when eastern germany collasped all the scientists were let go… where did they go China …

and who dominated the Olympics this year… oh surprise[/quote]

But the best explosive athletes in the West don’t compete in Olympic lifting.

154

You know, the more I see some of you guys talk about the silliness of ‘new’ methods being preached in articles on this site, the more I notice it as well…like CT said, people want to be seduced.

I remember an article on here - I think it was by Dr. Darden - about doing a 30s negative pullups or chinups in order to add an inch to your arms in X amount of time. Something like that.

The first thought through my mind: who the FUCK can do a 30s negative? And, if they can, then shouldn’t they be using a metric shit-ton more weight if they are to induce any sort of hypertrophy? Otherwise, this ‘method’ is like saying doing wall squats will give you Platz-esque quad development.

If any of you can actually do a 30s neg on a pullup or chinup, then I’ll shut up - but only if you post a vid.

(oh, and no disrespect to Dr. Darden at all. I just see the whole “add x inches to your y muscles in z amount of time!” as no different than the fat loss infomercials on after midnight.)

155

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
You know, the more I see some of you guys talk about the silliness of ‘new’ methods being preached in articles on this site, the more I notice it as well…like CT said, people want to be seduced.

I remember an article on here - I think it was by Dr. Darden - about doing a 30s negative pullups or chinups in order to add an inch to your arms in X amount of time. Something like that.

The first thought through my mind: who the FUCK can do a 30s negative? And, if they can, then shouldn’t they be using a metric shit-ton more weight if they are to induce any sort of hypertrophy? Otherwise, this ‘method’ is like saying doing wall squats will give you Platz-esque quad development.

If any of you can actually do a 30s neg on a pullup or chinup, then I’ll shut up - but only if you post a vid.

(oh, and no disrespect to Dr. Darden at all. I just see the whole “add x inches to your y muscles in z amount of time!” as no different than the fat loss infomercials on after midnight.)[/quote]

I haven’t seen a truly impressive set of arms come out of that yet. Maybe I missed it.

To get really big arms, the rest of you has to get big as well.

156

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I haven’t seen a truly impressive set of arms come out of that yet. Maybe I missed it.

To get really big arms, the rest of you has to get big as well.[/quote]

Ironically, almost EVERY author throws in this hard on for nostalgia when talking about how cavemen did xyz, how old school bodybuilders knew ‘secrets’ to training and nutrition. Really, now? I am starting to think the only true ‘secret’ was that, back then, people didn’t have internet access, know what ‘sarcoplasmic hypertrophy’ or ‘somatotype’ or even PubMed was.

My uncles are all big guys and about the only thing they have in common was that they were active from a young age, ate tons of butter, rice, beef, lamb, eggs, whole unpasteurized milk, brawled and did construction work as their “GPP.” I am convinced that pre-adolescence is when training should really begin to supercharge the benefits of puberty.

I’ve decided to just eat as much as possible, sleep whenever I’m tired and make sure that at any point in time, I am enjoying what I’m doing. I think I’ll start naming my callouses after some of the authors. You know, so I can have them with me at all times for moral support.

157

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
You know, the more I see some of you guys talk about the silliness of ‘new’ methods being preached in articles on this site, the more I notice it as well…like CT said, people want to be seduced.

I remember an article on here - I think it was by Dr. Darden - about doing a 30s negative pullups or chinups in order to add an inch to your arms in X amount of time. Something like that.

The first thought through my mind: who the FUCK can do a 30s negative? And, if they can, then shouldn’t they be using a metric shit-ton more weight if they are to induce any sort of hypertrophy? Otherwise, this ‘method’ is like saying doing wall squats will give you Platz-esque quad development.

If any of you can actually do a 30s neg on a pullup or chinup, then I’ll shut up - but only if you post a vid.

(oh, and no disrespect to Dr. Darden at all. I just see the whole “add x inches to your y muscles in z amount of time!” as no different than the fat loss infomercials on after midnight.)

I haven’t seen a truly impressive set of arms come out of that yet. Maybe I missed it.

To get really big arms, the rest of you has to get big as well.[/quote]

That guy’s stuff is always good for a laugh…

158

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I haven’t seen a truly impressive set of arms come out of that yet. Maybe I missed it.

To get really big arms, the rest of you has to get big as well.

Ironically, almost EVERY author throws in this hard on for nostalgia when talking about how cavemen did xyz, how old school bodybuilders knew ‘secrets’ to training and nutrition. Really, now? I am starting to think the only true ‘secret’ was that, back then, people didn’t have internet access, know what ‘sarcoplasmic hypertrophy’ or ‘somatotype’ or even PubMed was.

My uncles are all big guys and about the only thing they have in common was that they were active from a young age, ate tons of butter, rice, beef, lamb, eggs, whole unpasteurized milk, brawled and did construction work as their “GPP.” I am convinced that pre-adolescence is when training should really begin to supercharge the benefits of puberty.

I’ve decided to just eat as much as possible, sleep whenever I’m tired and make sure that at any point in time, I am enjoying what I’m doing. I think I’ll start naming my callouses after some of the authors. You know, so I can have them with me at all times for moral support.[/quote]

Well said.

159

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
stockzy wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:

very few people from the West participate in Olympic Lifting. If they had the NFL over there things would be different.[/quote]

Every single explosive athlete in any part of the world worth his salt, DOES some olympic lifting variations of the snatch and clean and jerk, TO GET explosive! Sprinters, throwers, jumpers, NFL players you name it, they do it…And if they don’t, my god do they need to get a real coach.

It’s a cost benefit situation with most athletes. If the cost of doing olympic lifting variations (such as lack of flexibility leading to injury) far outway the benefit’s then there are other traditional exercises you can do, emphasising speed and power techniques originally developed in the east, that will reep similar benefits on the nervous system and muscular system. A beautiful example of this is the dynamic day in a traditional westside program.