[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
Another cop hate thread?
Good old T Nation hasn’t changed.
Where’s the current race bait thread? Lol[/quote]
It’s kinda wrapped into one right now … Just not full blown
But X is on it, have no fear … J/K [/quote]
All we need now is a “I can’t find pants that fit” thread and all will be well in the world
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
They don’t have to show you any of that crap on the side of the road. And there is no such thing as “calibration paperwork” in the patrol vehicle. All asking for it will do is insure that you get at least one, if not several, tickets. They might also decide to not let you sign your ticket and instead take you to jail and let you make bond. I agree with the post about being nice. That has worked well for me on more than one occasion. [/quote]
LOL.
So clearly when a black man states this, he just has a chip on his shoulder…lol!!!
Oh, Velvet Elvis, you make life worth living.
[/quote]
You think I’m white?[/quote]
You are green.
You are an Ogre.
I’ve had my ass kicked on the side of the road several times over the years. No ticket, just a beat down. All of them in PG county MD. And NO, I did not provoke anyone or make the officer feel unsafe. (it just so happens that it’s illegal in MD to make a recording of a police officer - correlation anyone?)
There are SOOOOO many laws that they pop you for, you can’t even cross the street without a fine. We live in a fucking nanny state, plain and simple. Here in VA, if you drive 20 mph over the speed limit, you can be charged with reckless driving and PUT IN JAIL for 30 days. If you drive in the HOV lane, the fines can get over $2000! If you don’t have the right sticker on your car, they can pull you over and impound your vehicle and charge you $120 a day until you pay a tow truck to retreive your vehicle and get the right sticker.
Who the fuck VOTED for all this shit? Seriously, I think a majority of Americans don’t agree with it, why the hell do we consent to be govorned like this? Instead of campaigning on promises of getting “tough on crime”, I think a politician would be pretty successful if he or she pledged to introducing legislation to REDUCE the bullshit laws on the books and move us toward a more free society.
They have laws to impose fines to pay for a department to oversee laws and fines - make the bullshit laws go away and you won’t need to pay for the cost of enforcing the bullshit laws. And before someone jumps in and says, “so you think murder is OK?”, NO I don’t. But I think parking on the street with out a sticker is OK. I think briefly entering an empty lane to pass someone should not cost me $2000. I think that a state who fails to properly plan it’s development should punish the individual responsible and correct the problem, not punish individual citizens who just want to drive on the road that their tax dollars paid for. I think that MANY traffic stops (or “stop and frisks” in NYC) result in 4th Ammendment violations and the officers who violate the Constitution should be held accountable.
The part about the cops that pisses me off the most, is that when they break the law, they get ridiculously light sentances - if they are even charged at all. If anything, they should be held to a HIGHER standard with STIFFER penalties when they abuse the public’s trust and the state’s power. But it’s backwards.
So yeah, it’s another fuck the police thread. If things were JUST, there wouldn’t be so many fuck the police threads. And I normally don’t side with PX on many of his racist rants, but when it comes to the way Black men are disproportionally stopped, charged and incarcertated relative to their population percentage, there is no other reasonable conclusion. And it’s shameful that so many people dismiss it. We have a serious problem here in the USA, and their color is blue.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’ve had my ass kicked on the side of the road several times over the years. No ticket, just a beat down. All of them in PG county MD. And NO, I did not provoke anyone or make the officer feel unsafe. (it just so happens that it’s illegal in MD to make a recording of a police officer - correlation anyone?)
There are SOOOOO many laws that they pop you for, you can’t even cross the street without a fine. We live in a fucking nanny state, plain and simple. Here in VA, if you drive 20 mph over the speed limit, you can be charged with reckless driving and PUT IN JAIL for 30 days. If you drive in the HOV lane, the fines can get over $2000! If you don’t have the right sticker on your car, they can pull you over and impound your vehicle and charge you $120 a day until you pay a tow truck to retreive your vehicle and get the right sticker.
Who the fuck VOTED for all this shit? Seriously, I think a majority of Americans don’t agree with it, why the hell do we consent to be govorned like this? Instead of campaigning on promises of getting “tough on crime”, I think a politician would be pretty successful if he or she pledged to introducing legislation to REDUCE the bullshit laws on the books and move us toward a more free society.
They have laws to impose fines to pay for a department to oversee laws and fines - make the bullshit laws go away and you won’t need to pay for the cost of enforcing the bullshit laws. And before someone jumps in and says, “so you think murder is OK?”, NO I don’t. But I think parking on the street with out a sticker is OK. I think briefly entering an empty lane to pass someone should not cost me $2000. I think that a state who fails to properly plan it’s development should punish the individual responsible and correct the problem, not punish individual citizens who just want to drive on the road that their tax dollars paid for. I think that MANY traffic stops (or “stop and frisks” in NYC) result in 4th Ammendment violations and the officers who violate the Constitution should be held accountable.
The part about the cops that pisses me off the most, is that when they break the law, they get ridiculously light sentances - if they are even charged at all. If anything, they should be held to a HIGHER standard with STIFFER penalties when they abuse the public’s trust and the state’s power. But it’s backwards.
So yeah, it’s another fuck the police thread. If things were JUST, there wouldn’t be so many fuck the police threads. And I normally don’t side with PX on many of his racist rants, but when it comes to the way Black men are disproportionally stopped, charged and incarcertated relative to their population percentage, there is no other reasonable conclusion. And it’s shameful that so many people dismiss it. We have a serious problem here in the USA, and their color is blue.[/quote]
Good post for the most part. However, the problem is the laws themselves. Almost nothing is legal-that’s the problem. You can’t fault police officers for enforcing the laws the government hires them to enforce(Do some/many/most get carried away? No doubt-but they’re not working for the people-they are working for the peoples’ elected masters).
You did hit the nail on the head when you asked, “Who the fuck VOTED for all this shit?” Ron Paul(and others before him) campaigned on reducing government bullshit. The people rejected it.
Public property is the problem. We are brainwashed all through childhood to believe that public property is necessary and good. “You don’t want to see the Grand Canyon turned into a humongous, smoky, smelly factory, do you, kids?” We accept that shit as the truth because we are five-fucking-years old when we start hearing it. We don’t ask ourselves, “Why the fuck would that happen? If keeping the Grand Canyon the way it is is desirable, then why wouldn’t somebody do just that?”
What does that have to do with the police and bullshit laws? I’m glad you asked. You don’t allow anyone who wants it access to your home, do you? You don’t allow desirable visitors to bust your television, do you? I bet you wouldn’t even allow some random guy to do burnouts on your front lawn, or to smoke tires in your driveway, would you? If your property was big enough, you may even hire some other people to help look after it, right? Well that’s what the government does. Public property is the property of the government. It’s property on which government has the right to do what it wants. Fuck public property.
WHY the fuck would anybody VOTE for all this shit? Good question.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’ve had my ass kicked on the side of the road several times over the years. No ticket, just a beat down. All of them in PG county MD. And NO, I did not provoke anyone or make the officer feel unsafe. (it just so happens that it’s illegal in MD to make a recording of a police officer - correlation anyone?)
There are SOOOOO many laws that they pop you for, you can’t even cross the street without a fine. We live in a fucking nanny state, plain and simple. Here i
The part about the cops that pisses me off the most, is that when they break the law, they get ridiculously light sentances - if they are even charged at all. If anything, they should be held to a HIGHER standard with STIFFER penalties when they abuse the public’s trust and the state’s power. But it’s backwards.
While I think this trend is moving the other way, I agree … When authority is abused and trust is broken, police officers should be held to a higher standard than the normal public and punished accordingly …
Believe me - I can see this from both sides. I’ve been wrongly arrested (twice) by over zealous cops (charges later dropped)… Been in jail … Had my face ground into the pavement with a boot on my neck… At one point I had so many points on my license I was flirting with revocation.
I also used to be a cop (7 years) for a decent sized department (roughly 2,000 officers) and I can honestly say that the bad apples were weeded out fairly quickly and run off … Some prosecuted, some just fired. Are there guys who are dicks? Yes. Guys who would write their mothers speeding tickets? Yes. But the vast majority are people just trying to earn a living. They would much rather be drinking coffee and talking to their buddies between calls than out cracking heads and looking for skimpy reasons to take people to jail …
For me, I never had a ticket quota, and in fact never used all the tickets (25) in my issued citation book before I had to turn it in and get a new one (yearly). I also recall MANY times where I had broken leather and was legally justified (by department policy and state law) to use deadly force … Begging, PLEADING with suspects to comply or I would have to shoot them … To the point where not only was it dangerous for me personally, but you have this loop in your head repeating “oh shit … Oh shit … No … No … Please don’t make me do this … Please don’t make me do this… Shit… Fuck … Shit …” Thankfully I never had to shoot anyone, but in hindsight it was a miracle I myself didn’t get capped, because their action wold have been faster than my reaction.
I’m probably not going to change any minds here … Just consider that despite appearances and stereotypes, MOST cops aren’t robots that took the job to harass, beat, or kill people while hiding behind a badge
And think too that their day consists of always seeing people at their worst … Call after call of accidents, domestics, beatings, stabbings, shootings. Ask any nurse - the constant drama and “sky is falling” mentality they deal with can make you lose your faith in humanity if you aren’t careful… You almost have to build up some kind of mental wall to deal with the avalanche of bullshit … But at the end of the day, most officers really do give a shit, and are more than willing to put their lives on the line for total strangers …
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
i for one would like to thank all the cops who ticket speeders. Sure they could be doing real police work and actually serving their communities, but instead they take on the task of keeping the streets clear of those horrible speeders. People who speed are right up there with the meth dealers, and rapists at the top of the scumbag list. [/quote]
Speeding does cause an awful lot of accidents. [/quote]
obviously going 140mph in a school zone should be ticketed, but going 80mph on an empty interstate and getting a ticket is pure revenue collection bullshit. [/quote]
So the law should only apply sometimes?
[quote]gregron wrote:
Another cop hate thread?
Good old T Nation hasn’t changed.
Where’s the current race bait thread? Lol[/quote]
Lol, PWI…
LoRez…I’m a little late responding to your post I see, but I wanted to comment on your “advice”.
An officer is not REQUIRED to show you the display on his radar, nor is he required to carry the calibration paperwork with him at all times. This is per NHTSA guidelines. An officer MAY show it to you if he/she chooses to, but it is not legally mandated.
While I don’t personally have a problem showing people the radar display, some officers might for safety reasons. That’s up to the individual officer. That being said, I am not required to hold your trial out there on the side of the road…that’s why you have the option of setting a ticklet for court.
I have FAR better things to do in my city than write people tickets for no reason. Rest assured, if I take the time to pull a traffic stop on you, it was for a legitimate reason. That might not be the case for small agencies, but for large cities, I can pretty much speak for most officers on that subject.
In any case, I wanted to point out that your “legal advice” was incorrect, and would likely lead to unneccessary confrontation. Any ticket may be set for court, and I would suggest taking that route, as opposed to taking legal advice off the internet.
Angry Chicken…I’m not sure if I am remembering this correctly, but are you not the gentleman on here who was convicted for multiple counts of armed robbery as a young man? If you are not the guy I’m thinking of, then I apologize in advance, but let me ask you a question…
If memory serves, you admitted to victimizing somewhere from 10-20 people in your “youth”. You pled out to ONE of those, and received a VERY short prison sentence in comparison to your crimes…and those were just the ones you admitted to. I’m not naive enough to think that those were the only ones you committed.
Don’t you find it a bit ironic that you are sitting here crying about cops receiving “light sentences”, when you, yourself, benefitted from that same justice system? Frankly, in all honesty, you should STILL be sitting in prison for your actions.
So you hate the police now…so what? If you are the guy I’m thinking of, should that be any surprise?
Perhaps you should focus your energies on seeking forgiveness from the people you victimized. Have you ever gone back and made reparations to each and every one of them? Probably not. So, until the day comes that you do, could you at least stop trying to play the victim on these boards? It grows tiresome.
Again, if I have the wrong guy, then I apologize…but I’m pretty sure I have the right guy.
Stand with Rand Paul in 2016!
good advice
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I would be more worried if people act like they didn’t know this happened…and then you add racial profiling on top of that…and there you go.[/quote]
I’m out. Have fun everyone[/quote]
Oh we will…[/quote]
Fucking Hell that’s funny.
[quote]I wrote:
Next time you get pulled over for speeding, ask to see the reading. If you get that far, ask to see the calibration paperwork.
Without either of those, the case becomes his/her word vs yours. Then discuss the case with the prosecutor and point out the lack of evidence. At best, they’ll drop the charges; more likely, they’ll offer a plea-bargain offering a lower fine and/or 0 points on your license.
Of course if you were actually speeding, the reading on the equipment is accurate, and it was certified within the legal limit… it’s a different story. [/quote]
I guess I should have reread what I wrote a few times before posting.
What it sounded like I said was that this is advice to use in all cases. What I meant was that this is advice to use in the case where you’re charged with speeding, but you weren’t actually speeding. You can see that with the “of course, if you were actually speeding…” that got dropped (conveniently) when I was quoted. I guess I should have started out with “if you’re stopped and you weren’t actually speeding…”
If my speedometer said I was driving 70 and the officer claims I was driving 72, that’s one thing. There’s really no reason to question this.
If my speedometer says I was driving 55 and the officer claims I was driving 70, that’s another thing. There’s a very good reason to question this.
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
An officer is not REQUIRED to show you the display on his radar, nor is he required to carry the calibration paperwork with him at all times. This is per NHTSA guidelines. An officer MAY show it to you if he/she chooses to, but it is not legally mandated.
While I don’t personally have a problem showing people the radar display, some officers might for safety reasons. That’s up to the individual officer. That being said, I am not required to hold your trial out there on the side of the road…that’s why you have the option of setting a ticket for court.[/quote]
I’m curious about your view on this.
The radar equipment has to be calibrated on a regular basis, using forks that, themselves, have been certified, and documented, going all the way back to the Office of Weights and Measures. Basically, we know the reading on the equipment is accurate.
What’s missing is whether the number written on the ticket matches what the equipment displayed. This relies entirely on the officer accurately copying this number down.
Certainly most officers would never fabricate that value. (And I’m not being facetious, most officers are upstanding and respectful.)
But what is in place to ensure that this number isn’t fabricated?
I realize you wouldn’t do it, but if you were stopped off-duty, out of state, and someone did that to you, how would you handle it?
I’m glad that’s the case where you are.
For some small rural towns, pulling over out-of-towners is a pretty normal thing to do. Mostly, it is just revenue generation. As I mentioned above, several of the small town courts have “you can pay $50 for the ticket and admit guilt, or pay $100 and we won’t put it on your record” policies. Nobody was trying to pretend it was anything else.
In other cases, I was pulled over on the basis of having a suspicious-looking vehicle in a high-crime part of town. Of course I was never told that, but, I was actually living near a high-crime part of town, in a car that looked out of place.
I understand the concept of “just wanting to make sure” that nothing was going on, that there were no drugs, guns, and that I wasn’t drunk or high. Those stops weren’t about traffic violations at all, but more about gathering information. Most of the time, I was just stopped, then told to go on my way.
What bothered me, and what I challenged, were the cases where the officer pulled me over, but then felt a need to justify the stop instead of just letting me go. Failing to signal and improper display of the front plate were two of the ridiculous tickets. There’s no defense against a “failed to signal”, and the “front plate” didn’t hold water since there was video evidence to the contrary.
I also got a “no insurance” ticket once, because I hadn’t put the new card in the car yet. (Not a big deal, I just showed my current insurance card to the court clerk and they threw the ticket out.) I wasn’t stopped just so they could check my insurance.
Have you ever stopped a car, simply to check things out? Do you know of other officers who do that?
I’m not implying racial profiling, but rather things like, “the car’s too nice for this area”, or the reverse “the car’s not nice enough for this area”? Or, if there’s just something “off” about their driving patterns?
I’m not sure what was incorrect about it. I didn’t say the officer was obligated to show you the reading. I didn’t say the officer was obligated to show the equipment was properly calibrated.
I said you should ask. I also said that this might lead to some conflict.
I also said that, assuming you don’t pay and admit guilt prior, everything really gets settled in court… and that what you do during the stop, and everything else you do before the court date, can affect the outcome.
I realize most officers don’t like to be questioned. I also realize most people don’t like to be pulled over. But it goes both ways.
And an officer who pulls you over and charges you with something that didn’t actually happen should ultimately be challenged in court. However, when challenged in person, someone with nothing to hide will [usually] behave differently than someone who does. A defensive reaction is pretty obvious – and it shows up in voice recordings and video.
Anyway…
Most officers, most of the time, are very good people, respect the law, and are just and fair.
A few officers, some of the time, abuse their position of power. Not enough people seem to stand up against that.
[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
I’m probably not going to change any minds here … Just consider that despite appearances and stereotypes, MOST cops aren’t robots that took the job to harass, beat, or kill people while hiding behind a badge[/quote]
I actually do agree with you here.
[quote]And think too that their day consists of always seeing people at their worst … Call after call of accidents, domestics, beatings, stabbings, shootings. […]
You almost have to build up some kind of mental wall to deal with the avalanche of bullshit … But at the end of the day, most officers really do give a shit, and are more than willing to put their lives on the line for total strangers …[/quote]
In the eyes of the law, you’re innocent until proven guilty.
In the eyes of many officers, you’re guilty until proven innocent. Because, really, what most officers see is completely biased.
Given the kinds of things that go on, I’m actually impressed that there aren’t more felony stops. Really, why shouldn’t you expect that a driver isn’t some crazed lunatic, high on god-knows-what, with a gun and a knife at the ready. (Especially if they’re black. [Did I take that too far?])
Point is, I know it’s tough on both sides.
I also know that citizens have to be willing to defend their rights, when the officer is actually in the wrong.
If you have a concern with the way police do business in your area you can talk with town council, town manager, chief, or sheriff. Most of these people have considerable influence. Where I work we can not refer to traffic enforcement and raising revenue in the same sentence. The boss will not tolerate it. Some places do use traffic enforcement for revenue so they will not change their stance. However, you can have an influence if you take the time to discuss your concerns with those in charge. When the red and blues are on behind you it is probably too late. Most people, even cops do not start their shift trying to figure out how to piss off the boss or the public.
It would be pretty simple to require variable speed governors installed on all vehicles with a gps chip to recognized what the speed limit for the vehicle’s location, and have the governor adjust accordingly.