Police Ticket Quota

Off Topic
81

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
i for one would like to thank all the cops who ticket speeders. Sure they could be doing real police work and actually serving their communities, but instead they take on the task of keeping the streets clear of those horrible speeders. People who speed are right up there with the meth dealers, and rapists at the top of the scumbag list. [/quote]

Speeding does cause an awful lot of accidents. [/quote]

obviously going 140mph in a school zone should be ticketed, but going 80mph on an empty interstate and getting a ticket is pure revenue collection bullshit. [/quote]

So the law should only apply sometimes? [/quote]

yeah, you’re pretty fuckin stupid if you think society should follow the exact letter of the law at all times.

82

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
i for one would like to thank all the cops who ticket speeders. Sure they could be doing real police work and actually serving their communities, but instead they take on the task of keeping the streets clear of those horrible speeders. People who speed are right up there with the meth dealers, and rapists at the top of the scumbag list. [/quote]

Speeding does cause an awful lot of accidents. [/quote]

obviously going 140mph in a school zone should be ticketed, but going 80mph on an empty interstate and getting a ticket is pure revenue collection bullshit. [/quote]

So the law should only apply sometimes? [/quote]

yeah, you’re pretty fuckin stupid if you think society should follow the exact letter of the law at all times. [/quote]

Ouch…Good talk.

83

LoRez,

Perhaps I mistook your post, but it seemed that you were advising all people to do it all the time. If I misunderstood your advice, then I’ll take the hit on that one.

To answer the questions you posed…yes, the radar do have to be calibrated with tuning forks prior to their use. Admittedly, there is no requirement to write that down anywhere…I tell my officers to just video record it prior to the start of their shift so they can show that the radar was calibrated correctly. As for record keeping…I’m sure the calibration records can be brought in to court for review. They just aren’t available in written form to the average patrol officer.

How would I handle being stopped? Particularly if I wasn’t speeding? I’d set it for court. I know more than the average bear about radar and how it works. I’d get the officer on the stand and give his brain a workout. If that didn’t work, and I was still found guilty, then I could plead it down.

I actually have been pulled over in Massachusettes and got treated like absolute shit by a Mass State Patrol officer. I never told him I was an officer from a different city / state, cos I knew that was just going to make it worse. I set it for a jury trial, played to the jury’s sympathies, and beat the ticket.

To answer what I think your other questions were getting at…of course I’ve stopped vehicles in relation to suspicious activity. I’ve never used speeding as a reason for a stop in those circumstances, but I’ve used plenty of other traffic violations. to make it happen. Sometimes you go off the description of the vehicle as it was given, other times you stop cars that don’t seem to belong…I guess you could call it “criminal profiling”. I’m not going to change anyone’s mind about the whole race thing. Some people believe we racially profile, and that’s their opinion. I know that the reality is, in the dark, you can’t even tell what sex the person is…never mind their race. And that can be true during the day, too. But, if people want to believe it’s about race, then so be it.

In any case, my intent was not to belittle you in any way, so I hope you didn’t take it that way. I just didn’t want people going around telling officers “You have to show me the radar and the records!!!”, when that isn’t the case.

One thing you mentioned is true…a lot of officers don’t like to be questioned. I don’t know why that is…I’m of the opinion that you should be able to explain what you’re doing if asked, but that’s just me.

84

Push,

I don’t know why you felt the need to jump in on my question to Angry Chicken, but I have a question for you now…was there anything I said that wan’t true?

Many of you like to paint pictures of others with very broad brushes…in your case, all cops are the same, and they’re all bad. In Prof X’s case, they’re all racists. In Angry Chicken’s, they’re all whatever…

Well, I have a little news for you…there is a whole other segment of society who likes what we do. Like putting bad guys in jail. And last time I checked, armed robbery is pretty bad. If it wasn’t him, then I was wrong, and I apologized in advance. But if it was, what exactly are you defending? His right to commit armed robbery?

So here’s a little paint from my broad brush…all criminals (ex-cons included) are one thing…SELFISH. They think of nothing other than themselves, ever. And that doesn’t change, because there is no such thing as a rehabilitated crook. I’m turning 45 in a couple of months…been doing this since I was 20. Haven’t met a rehabilitated felon yet.

But please, you wizened sage, fill me in on the “lot to learn”. You seem to be a subject matter expert on so many things…I’m sure you’ll sway me with your advanced knowledge on the subject.

86

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Angry Chicken…I’m not sure if I am remembering this correctly, but are you not the gentleman on here who was convicted for multiple counts of armed robbery as a young man? If you are not the guy I’m thinking of, then I apologize in advance, but let me ask you a question…

If memory serves, you admitted to victimizing somewhere from 10-20 people in your “youth”. You pled out to ONE of those, and received a VERY short prison sentence in comparison to your crimes…and those were just the ones you admitted to. I’m not naive enough to think that those were the only ones you committed.

Don’t you find it a bit ironic that you are sitting here crying about cops receiving “light sentences”, when you, yourself, benefitted from that same justice system? Frankly, in all honesty, you should STILL be sitting in prison for your actions.

So you hate the police now…so what? If you are the guy I’m thinking of, should that be any surprise?

Perhaps you should focus your energies on seeking forgiveness from the people you victimized. Have you ever gone back and made reparations to each and every one of them? Probably not. So, until the day comes that you do, could you at least stop trying to play the victim on these boards? It grows tiresome.

Again, if I have the wrong guy, then I apologize…but I’m pretty sure I have the right guy. [/quote]

While I am all about the cop hating, you admittedly do have a point.

There are two differences though:

  1. Noone expects me to just roll over and take it with a smile when I encounter a young AC.
    Because for me, thats the worst bit, that you have to take it and are completely helpless when a cop does it.

  2. An encounter with young AC makes me see the value of some form of law and order, an encounter with a corrupt or petty power hungry cop does the exact opposite.

So, he does have a point too, cops should be held to a higher standard.

88

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Angry Chicken…I’m not sure if I am remembering this correctly, but are you not the gentleman on here who was convicted for multiple counts of armed robbery as a young man? If you are not the guy I’m thinking of, then I apologize in advance, but let me ask you a question…

[/quote]I pled guilty to ONE count of armed robbery, I was charged with pretty much every single recent unsolved robbery on their books[quote]

If memory serves, you admitted to victimizing somewhere from 10-20 people in your “youth”. You pled out to ONE of those, and received a VERY short prison sentence in comparison to your crimes…and those were just the ones you admitted to. I’m not naive enough to think that those were the only ones you committed.

[/quote]I wasn’t an angel, but I also wasn’t an adult when most of my “alleged” criminal behavior occurred. As I said, I was caught for ONE armed robbery just after I turned 18. I was sentanced to ten years. Given the circumstances involved (my age, no priors, no inuries to victims, no discharges of a firearm, my medical condition after I was arrested, etc…) my sentance fell well within the sentancing guidelines. I served almost four years, which is, again, well within parole guidelines. I did my time. I was two years on parole and five years on probation. During that time, I always had a job and I never missed a meeting or failed a piss test. [quote]

Don’t you find it a bit ironic that you are sitting here crying about cops receiving “light sentences”, when you, yourself, benefitted from that same justice system? Frankly, in all honesty, you should STILL be sitting in prison for your actions.

[/quote]Not according to the state of MD…[quote]

So you hate the police now…so what? If you are the guy I’m thinking of, should that be any surprise?

[/quote]The night I was arrested, I was beaten so badly I pissed blood for a week and was denied medical care and food for several days. This came out in my sentancing as well. So if you wanted me off the streets so badly, perhaps you fucking pigs shouldn’t have violated my civil rights? And I DON’T hate the police. I hate BAD police. I am good friends with several police officers and my cousin is a Baltimore city cop[quote]

Perhaps you should focus your energies on seeking forgiveness from the people you victimized. Have you ever gone back and made reparations to each and every one of them? Probably not. So, until the day comes that you do, could you at least stop trying to play the victim on these boards? It grows tiresome.

[/quote]Again, there you go with your assumptions. You don’t know me. I’ve made ammends with EVERY SINGLE person who was affected by my actions that night. I’m not playing victim. I did a crime and I paid my dues. Since them I HAVE been assaulted by police on several different occasions having nothing to do with my felony in different juristicions. My felony doesn’t pop up during a traffic stop, does it - I’ve been told it doesn’t. SO, what is YOUR perspective on that? Here’s mine: Prince Georges County Police are corrupt and notorious for voilence and doing this sort of thing. Google it. There are PAGES of separate incidents. How is pointing this out “being a victim”. I’m the LAST thing from a victim you’d be likely to meet.[quote]

Again, if I have the wrong guy, then I apologize…but I’m pretty sure I have the right guy. [/quote]
Right guy, wrong assumptions, but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

89

[quote]mapwhap wrote:

So here’s a little paint from my broad brush…all criminals (ex-cons included) are one thing…SELFISH. They think of nothing other than themselves, ever. And that doesn’t change, because there is no such thing as a rehabilitated crook. I’m turning 45 in a couple of months…been doing this since I was 20. Haven’t met a rehabilitated felon yet.

[/quote]

So what in your mind would qualify as a rehabilitated felon?

Would a person who commited a crime twenty years ago, did his time and got out and started a family qualify? How about someone who get’s out and never breaks the law again? How about someone who regularly volunteers in his community? Or donates to chariy? How about someone who goes out of his way to speak to at risk kids and try and set them on a different path? Or simply just gets out, gets a job, pays his taxes and grows old and retires?

Because I know SEVERAL people (felons), including myself, who do most, if not all, of the above.

I would also submit for your consideration that there are PLENTY of “selfish” people out there who are NOT felons. Or people that break the law and have never been caught. Or people who push the law to it’s limit, but don’t step over the line, yet move people and society in a bad direction…

But if you want to stubbornly cling to your black and white opinion, then that only makes you a judgemental prick - and the world is full of them too. Who am I to judge?

For the record, I enjoyed my time working in the Lone Star state. I had the opportunity to interact with some of the authorities down there when there was a fire on Pelican Island near the shipyard where I was working, and I have to say law enforcement was the epitome of professionalism, from what I was able to observe. Right now I’m wearing boots I bought when I was in Galveston - a pair of Ariots that are the most comfortable footwear I’ve ever owned. So I, for one, am greatful for your service and the safety you provided while I was in your neck of the woods. If I ever were to leave Virginia, I’d probably move to Katy, Texas or therebouts.

90

Orion,

I agree with your statement AND with Angry Chicken’s…police should be held to a higher standard. In my opinion…or I should say, from this side of the mirror, I think that we are. Do some of them get light sentences? Yes. I personally believe a LOT of people get sentences that are far too light. Not just cops. By the same token, I have seen officers lose their jobs for very minor infractions. And they should have. To me, that is part of being held to a higher standard.

Push,

Believe it or not, I do see the criminal justice system as a machine…and a faulty one. Is it financially driven? I don’t know. We could argue endlessly on that and probably change neither mind. However, as naive as this may sound to others, I do still believe in law and order. I don’t believe that a society without law and order perpetuates for long. (My apologies to any anarchists reading this…I just don’t get your philosophies.) What I can tell you is that I, the “salesman” as you said, never see any of that money personally. I don’t get a commission for putting people in jail, writing tickets, etc. Maybe in some places they do, but not here. However, if I read your statments correctly, you are more angry at the system itself…and occasionally the agents of it. Fair enough. I don’t like everything “my” government does either.

Angry Chicken,

First I don’t need to Google Prince George’s County…I am already familiar with their brand of policing, and I am aware they have a reputation for corruption and brutality. The fact that they have not fallen under Federal control is beyond me. Also, if I got the facts of your particular case mixed up, then I apologize.

Secondly, and most importantly, you are correct…I don’t know you. And that was my entire point. It isn’t very fun being painted with a broad brush and being lumped in with everyone else, is it?

I have served both my country and my city honorably as a police officer for almost 25 years now. I don’t need or want thanks for it, because I like my work, and it has its own rewards. I don’t expect others to automatically respect me, or the things I have done. I make a decent living, and I like going to work, so I can’t ask for much more. If I wanted people to like me, I would have become a fireman. And you know what? The VAST majority of my co-workers are the same.

I made my comment about criminals and ex-cons for a reason…because many of them are exactly as I described. There obviously are exceptions to every rule. You say you are one, so I’ll take that at face value. But it sucks to be lumped in with the bad apples, doesn’t it? You probably experience more of that on a daily basis than I ever have, because of your past. And you would probably prefer to be identified for the good things you have done…not the bad.

We (police) are the same way. We have our share of fuck-ups and idiots. But the vast majority of us are not. And we would prefer not to be idntified or defined by the ones who do fuck up.

I lurk on these boards a lot. I have for many years. From time to time I’ll jump in, but it’s a rarity, especially these days. I have never commented or responded to you directly until now, and frankly I don’t know why I did this time. My impression of you has always been that you don’t like police, period. If you say otherwise, then I’ll take you at your word.

My overall point to you and the other “cop haters” is this…hate the system all you want. A lot of us hate it. Hate the bad police…we do too. But quit lumping us all into one category. You’d be surprised to know how many of us agree with you on many things…we just work on a different side of the issue.

Fin.

91

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
So here’s a little paint from my broad brush…all criminals (ex-cons included) are one thing…SELFISH. They think of nothing other than themselves, ever. And that doesn’t change, because there is no such thing as a rehabilitated crook. I’m turning 45 in a couple of months…been doing this since I was 20. Haven’t met a rehabilitated felon yet.
[/quote]

Out of curiosity, what does rehabilitation have to do with selfishness/personal morals? If someone can live in society without being a threat to others or their property and pays into the system instead of being a ward of the system, then why would you not consider them to be rehabilitated? They may not be pleasant people to be around, but there is no law against that, nor is it the exclusive domain of ex-cons (as has previously been stated).

In fact, I’m of the opinion that we are, as a whole, fairly selfish. I think the disgraceful way we treat our seniors is a good example of that.

92

I’m a cop in a major metro city. There are no “quotas” in my department for tickets. There “might” with some supervisors for traffic stops, since we are HUGE on the actual stops, but not for tickets. That’s UNLESS you work traffic or motors, then TICKETS are actually considered work product and you are rated on “productivity” (since you don’t answer calls, etc.).

We are big on stops, to stop the driver and to address the lawful traffic violation. We use it as a pre-text to look for further criminality. We basically are more concerned with cars with guns, dope, warrants, stolen shit etc. than we are writing you a ticket for your broken tail-light. First you would have to traffic violation. Then you may then develop reasonable suspicion based on you conversation with the driver/occupants and a variety of other factors (criminal history, high crime area, etc.) MAY lead you to go beyond the stop and further investigate the driver/occupants. But I ALWAYS based that on something I could articulate… never just something like race/age etc. Good way to get sued.

That’s my take. I’m in investigations now, but I think I have signed 3 tickets in the last 2 years and those were for DUIs I think…

93

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
We have a serious problem here in the USA, and their color is blue.[/quote]

Democrats?

Sorry couldn’t resist. Note I hold no political affiliation, it was just too easy.

94

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Orion,

I agree with your statement AND with Angry Chicken’s…police should be held to a higher standard. In my opinion…or I should say, from this side of the mirror, I think that we are. Do some of them get light sentences? Yes. I personally believe a LOT of people get sentences that are far too light. Not just cops. By the same token, I have seen officers lose their jobs for very minor infractions. And they should have. To me, that is part of being held to a higher standard.

Push,

Believe it or not, I do see the criminal justice system as a machine…and a faulty one. Is it financially driven? I don’t know. We could argue endlessly on that and probably change neither mind. However, as naive as this may sound to others, I do still believe in law and order. I don’t believe that a society without law and order perpetuates for long. (My apologies to any anarchists reading this…I just don’t get your philosophies.) What I can tell you is that I, the “salesman” as you said, never see any of that money personally. I don’t get a commission for putting people in jail, writing tickets, etc. Maybe in some places they do, but not here. However, if I read your statments correctly, you are more angry at the system itself…and occasionally the agents of it. Fair enough. I don’t like everything “my” government does either.

Angry Chicken,

First I don’t need to Google Prince George’s County…I am already familiar with their brand of policing, and I am aware they have a reputation for corruption and brutality. The fact that they have not fallen under Federal control is beyond me. Also, if I got the facts of your particular case mixed up, then I apologize.

Secondly, and most importantly, you are correct…I don’t know you. And that was my entire point. It isn’t very fun being painted with a broad brush and being lumped in with everyone else, is it?

I have served both my country and my city honorably as a police officer for almost 25 years now. I don’t need or want thanks for it, because I like my work, and it has its own rewards. I don’t expect others to automatically respect me, or the things I have done. I make a decent living, and I like going to work, so I can’t ask for much more. If I wanted people to like me, I would have become a fireman. And you know what? The VAST majority of my co-workers are the same.

I made my comment about criminals and ex-cons for a reason…because many of them are exactly as I described. There obviously are exceptions to every rule. You say you are one, so I’ll take that at face value. But it sucks to be lumped in with the bad apples, doesn’t it? You probably experience more of that on a daily basis than I ever have, because of your past. And you would probably prefer to be identified for the good things you have done…not the bad.

We (police) are the same way. We have our share of fuck-ups and idiots. But the vast majority of us are not. And we would prefer not to be idntified or defined by the ones who do fuck up.

I lurk on these boards a lot. I have for many years. From time to time I’ll jump in, but it’s a rarity, especially these days. I have never commented or responded to you directly until now, and frankly I don’t know why I did this time. My impression of you has always been that you don’t like police, period. If you say otherwise, then I’ll take you at your word.

My overall point to you and the other “cop haters” is this…hate the system all you want. A lot of us hate it. Hate the bad police…we do too. But quit lumping us all into one category. You’d be surprised to know how many of us agree with you on many things…we just work on a different side of the issue.

Fin.
[/quote]

well said.

95

[quote]mapwhap wrote:
Orion,

I agree with your statement AND with Angry Chicken’s…police should be held to a higher standard. In my opinion…or I should say, from this side of the mirror, I think that we are. Do some of them get light sentences? Yes. I personally believe a LOT of people get sentences that are far too light. Not just cops. By the same token, I have seen officers lose their jobs for very minor infractions. And they should have. To me, that is part of being held to a higher standard.

Push,

Believe it or not, I do see the criminal justice system as a machine…and a faulty one. Is it financially driven? I don’t know. We could argue endlessly on that and probably change neither mind. However, as naive as this may sound to others, I do still believe in law and order. I don’t believe that a society without law and order perpetuates for long. (My apologies to any anarchists reading this…I just don’t get your philosophies.) What I can tell you is that I, the “salesman” as you said, never see any of that money personally. I don’t get a commission for putting people in jail, writing tickets, etc. Maybe in some places they do, but not here. However, if I read your statments correctly, you are more angry at the system itself…and occasionally the agents of it. Fair enough. I don’t like everything “my” government does either.

Angry Chicken,

First I don’t need to Google Prince George’s County…I am already familiar with their brand of policing, and I am aware they have a reputation for corruption and brutality. The fact that they have not fallen under Federal control is beyond me. Also, if I got the facts of your particular case mixed up, then I apologize.

Secondly, and most importantly, you are correct…I don’t know you. And that was my entire point. It isn’t very fun being painted with a broad brush and being lumped in with everyone else, is it?

I have served both my country and my city honorably as a police officer for almost 25 years now. I don’t need or want thanks for it, because I like my work, and it has its own rewards. I don’t expect others to automatically respect me, or the things I have done. I make a decent living, and I like going to work, so I can’t ask for much more. If I wanted people to like me, I would have become a fireman. And you know what? The VAST majority of my co-workers are the same.

I made my comment about criminals and ex-cons for a reason…because many of them are exactly as I described. There obviously are exceptions to every rule. You say you are one, so I’ll take that at face value. But it sucks to be lumped in with the bad apples, doesn’t it? You probably experience more of that on a daily basis than I ever have, because of your past. And you would probably prefer to be identified for the good things you have done…not the bad.

We (police) are the same way. We have our share of fuck-ups and idiots. But the vast majority of us are not. And we would prefer not to be idntified or defined by the ones who do fuck up.

I lurk on these boards a lot. I have for many years. From time to time I’ll jump in, but it’s a rarity, especially these days. I have never commented or responded to you directly until now, and frankly I don’t know why I did this time. My impression of you has always been that you don’t like police, period. If you say otherwise, then I’ll take you at your word.

My overall point to you and the other “cop haters” is this…hate the system all you want. A lot of us hate it. Hate the bad police…we do too. But quit lumping us all into one category. You’d be surprised to know how many of us agree with you on many things…we just work on a different side of the issue.

Fin.
[/quote]

I’ll make a promise to you right now: I won’t ever write “fuck the police” again, here or on any other forum. But I will instead write, “Fuck the BAD police”.

Fair enough?

I don’t hate the police. My cousin is a cop. The last BBQ I had included one of my close friends who is a DC cop. I am friendly with every officer (and every person of every other profession) I come in contact with until they act like a dick.

I DO hate my civil rights being violated. I DO hate reading about other people having their civil rights being violated. I hate paying money for bullshit fines for breaking stupid laws that I didn’t vote for and don’t serve any purpose other than to collect a fine. I am not an “anarchist” by any means, but I believe that our country has WAY too many laws and has become hopelessly corrupt on many levels.

96

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
We have a serious problem here in the USA, and their color is blue.[/quote]

Democrats?

Sorry couldn’t resist. Note I hold no political affiliation, it was just too easy.[/quote]

LMAO! I would have to agree!

97

Just trying to lighten the mood sir, tryin’ to lighten the mood.

Forums seem slow today. I am sad.

Here in PA… well there in PA, its common knowledge that cop activity increases towards the end of the month. I don’t know if its a formal thing to make money, or just a way for chiefs to ensure their cops aren’t just sleeping in their cars during traffic duty, but the lat week to week and a half of a month, you’ll see the cops in their same old spots waiting to pull people over.

I’ve personally never been pulled over for a ticket knock on wood though I can think of two occassions where I should have been (as well as those around me). My father got in a vehicular accident a few years ago that wasn’t his fault, and the cop was a dick to him the entire time - PA State Police. I had a girl enter my lane and hit me on the way to work in Ohio, the cop that arrived was a bit stern but very nice and respectful once he got the jist of the situation. I even complimented him, and we snickered because I was filling my version of the report out in the back of his car and commented on the lack of leg room. There are good and bad.

My sponsor for my Confirmation name - those raised Catholic will know what that is - was my grandmother’s next door neighbor. A now retired city cop. Nicest person I’ve ever met and what I believe to be a stand-up example of a member of the police force. He’s told me some stories about diffusing some situations - and many times in the bad neighborhoods of his town - and said that even bad people will respect a respectful officer. Whether 100% true or not, I give folks the benefit of the doubt - even officers. And if one is ever a dick, I just smile to myself because I know I make more than they do (I know that’s prickish of me, but sometimes its good to be a bit of a prick if no one else is looking :P).

98

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
I’m a cop in a major metro city. There are no “quotas” in my department for tickets. There “might” with some supervisors for traffic stops, since we are HUGE on the actual stops, but not for tickets. That’s UNLESS you work traffic or motors, then TICKETS are actually considered work product and you are rated on “productivity” (since you don’t answer calls, etc.).

We are big on stops, to stop the driver and to address the lawful traffic violation. We use it as a pre-text to look for further criminality. We basically are more concerned with cars with guns, dope, warrants, stolen shit etc. than we are writing you a ticket for your broken tail-light. First you would have to traffic violation. Then you may then develop reasonable suspicion based on you conversation with the driver/occupants and a variety of other factors (criminal history, high crime area, etc.) MAY lead you to go beyond the stop and further investigate the driver/occupants. But I ALWAYS based that on something I could articulate… never just something like race/age etc. Good way to get sued.

That’s my take. I’m in investigations now, but I think I have signed 3 tickets in the last 2 years and those were for DUIs I think…[/quote]

But where is your probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation particularly describing a place (vehicle) or specific person or thing, based on a random traffic stop?

Here’s the 4th ammendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

How are you authorized to do anything other than pull them over, cite them for speeding/broken tail light, and let them go on their way based on that?

Now if someone came in and swore under oath that they saw Jimmy T. Hoodrat putting a gun under the seat of hie blue 97 Honda Civic, then by all means, get a warrent and search that fucker’s car. But absent that, how is any other pretense for a warrentless search in any way shape or form Constitutional?