[quote]orion wrote:
When the US has more people incarcerated and yet more violent crimes are committed than in every other country you probably should care what is happening in other countries.[/quote]
I’d say that’s due to our drug laws. Look to the citizens and the represenatives they elect to fix that. It’s out of the officer’s hands. And it seems to me we have a robust glamorization of thug and gang culture.
Anyone got any stats concerning the chance of an american citizen being beaten or shot by American Police? I’m thinking it’s around the same chance of being the victim of a shark attack, but I could be wrong.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…
When the US has more people incarcerated and yet more violent crimes are committed than in every other country you probably should care what is happening in other countries.
…
The demographics of the US are so different than the old world it skews the statistics greatly.
Canada’s demographics are relatively similar.
Less the illegal immigration…
Speculation. Canada doesn’t even attempt to keep track of unauthorized immigrants. The only numbers that have been thrown around appear to have originated in the media, and have no actual source.
Even still, the number of immigrants Canada let’s in, relative to the population, is staggering by comparison to the US.[/quote]
Canada lets in immigrants with money, not members of MI-13 or whatever the hell that gang is called. I cannot believe you are going to try to make this comparison.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I think the cops made a mistake when they went from Peace Officer to a Para military group.
I can’t agree with this at all. I understand that the growing employment of SWAT teams, military black rifles and generalized military training among police circles has lead to some concern. However, Barney Fife can’t do this job anymore. Gangs are truly out of control in this country but most people don’t realize that.
Increasingly aggressive police tactics have been the proper response.
Criminal tactics have evolved and changed over the last couple of decades. 40 years ago, the thought of confronting heavily armed terrorists was not anywhere in the realm of reality for the police. It is now. More “mundane” threats like much more
common active shooter events and the rise of super-gangs have required an adjustment by law enforcement.
Honestly, we are still extremely behind the curve. The police should probably be training much more aggressively than they are now. [/quote]
In my misspent youth, I failed to pay a speeding ticket because I was laid off from a steel mill. After the court date passed 2 cops showed up at my door and informed me that I was supposed to go with them. I thought by the way they said it, that I would be permitted to ask what if I did not want to go. They forced in the door and pulled out these 4 inch black jacks and forced me into the corner of my kitchen where there were pots pans butcher knives.
Being the bad ass I have always thought I was I wanted to show them I COULD KICK THEIR ASS. But I was too smart for that, not every one is as fortunate as I. What I am trying to say diplomacy should be the first thing the cops try. (Most) of the cops I know are hot heads with big egos that do not know how to talk to people
I think there is a point that is attainable by the cops ,where the could push law abiding citizens to act against them.
There are very few situations where the cops have to deal with heavily armed terrorists.
I was not thinking Barney Fife, I was thinking a tough sensible cop.
Well, in trying to answer my own questions, I found this. And yeah, it does seem to down around shark attack/lightning strike territory.
[i]
For example, about 1 percent of people who
had face-to-face contacts with police said
that officers used or threatened force, according
to preliminary estimates based on
the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 1996 pretest
of its Police-Public Contact Survey (chapter
2). In 7,512 adult custody arrests, another
study (chapter 4) notes that fewer than one
out of five arrests involved police use of
physical force (defined as use of any weapon,
use of any weaponless tactic, or use of severe
restraints). That can be considered a low
rate in view of the study’s broad definition
of force.
Also known with substantial confidence is
that police use of force typically occurs at the
lower end of the force spectrum, involving
grabbing, pushing, or shoving. In the study
focusing on 7,512 adult custody arrests,
for instance, about 80 percent of arrests in
which police used force involved use of weaponless
tactics. Grabbing was the tactic used
about half the time. About 2.1 percent of all
arrests involved use of weapons by police.
Chemical agents, such as pepper spray, were
the weapons most frequently used (1.2 percent
of all arrests), with firearms least often
used (0.2 percent).[/i]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, in trying to answer my own questions, I found this. And yeah, it does seem to down around shark attack/lightning strike territory.
[i]
For example, about 1 percent of people who
had face-to-face contacts with police said
that officers used or threatened force, according
to preliminary estimates based on
the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 1996 pretest
of its Police-Public Contact Survey (chapter
2). In 7,512 adult custody arrests, another
study (chapter 4) notes that fewer than one
out of five arrests involved police use of
physical force (defined as use of any weapon,
use of any weaponless tactic, or use of severe
restraints). That can be considered a low
rate in view of the study’s broad definition
of force.
Also known with substantial confidence is
that police use of force typically occurs at the
lower end of the force spectrum, involving
grabbing, pushing, or shoving. In the study
focusing on 7,512 adult custody arrests,
for instance, about 80 percent of arrests in
which police used force involved use of weaponless
tactics. Grabbing was the tactic used
about half the time. About 2.1 percent of all
arrests involved use of weapons by police.
Chemical agents, such as pepper spray, were
the weapons most frequently used (1.2 percent
of all arrests), with firearms least often
used (0.2 percent).[/i]
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/176330-1.pdf [/quote]
You can’t be serious! This is like comparing apples to…cello strings.
It’s not the “chance of being the victim of a shark attack” here. It’s more the chance of people spending some time with sharks and not being attacked.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, in trying to answer my own questions, I found this. And yeah, it does seem to down around shark attack/lightning strike territory.
[i]
For example, about 1 percent of people who
had face-to-face contacts with police said
that officers used or threatened force, according
to preliminary estimates based on
the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 1996 pretest
of its Police-Public Contact Survey (chapter
2). In 7,512 adult custody arrests, another
study (chapter 4) notes that fewer than one
out of five arrests involved police use of
physical force (defined as use of any weapon,
use of any weaponless tactic, or use of severe
restraints). That can be considered a low
rate in view of the study’s broad definition
of force.
Also known with substantial confidence is
that police use of force typically occurs at the
lower end of the force spectrum, involving
grabbing, pushing, or shoving. In the study
focusing on 7,512 adult custody arrests,
for instance, about 80 percent of arrests in
which police used force involved use of weaponless
tactics. Grabbing was the tactic used
about half the time. About 2.1 percent of all
arrests involved use of weapons by police.
Chemical agents, such as pepper spray, were
the weapons most frequently used (1.2 percent
of all arrests), with firearms least often
used (0.2 percent).[/i]
[/quote]
This paper was written 8 years ago, and those other stats are from 12 years ago… It’s only been getting worse.
I don’t get why so many non-americans are so interested in the perceived short comings of the US justice system.
As far as illegal aliens with criminal tendencies go, nobody “lets” these people in, we just do a really shitty job of keeping them out.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…
When the US has more people incarcerated and yet more violent crimes are committed than in every other country you probably should care what is happening in other countries.
…
The demographics of the US are so different than the old world it skews the statistics greatly.
Canada’s demographics are relatively similar.
Less the illegal immigration…
Speculation. Canada doesn’t even attempt to keep track of unauthorized immigrants. The only numbers that have been thrown around appear to have originated in the media, and have no actual source.
Even still, the number of immigrants Canada let’s in, relative to the population, is staggering by comparison to the US.[/quote]
Apparently we have 41,000 illegals that we need to deport but they are “missing”…
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080506.wauditor_main0506/BNStory/National/home
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, in trying to answer my own questions, I found this. And yeah, it does seem to down around shark attack/lightning strike territory.
[i]
For example, about 1 percent of people who
had face-to-face contacts with police said
that officers used or threatened force, according
to preliminary estimates based on
the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ 1996 pretest
of its Police-Public Contact Survey (chapter
2). In 7,512 adult custody arrests, another
study (chapter 4) notes that fewer than one
out of five arrests involved police use of
physical force (defined as use of any weapon,
use of any weaponless tactic, or use of severe
restraints). That can be considered a low
rate in view of the study’s broad definition
of force.
Also known with substantial confidence is
that police use of force typically occurs at the
lower end of the force spectrum, involving
grabbing, pushing, or shoving. In the study
focusing on 7,512 adult custody arrests,
for instance, about 80 percent of arrests in
which police used force involved use of weaponless
tactics. Grabbing was the tactic used
about half the time. About 2.1 percent of all
arrests involved use of weapons by police.
Chemical agents, such as pepper spray, were
the weapons most frequently used (1.2 percent
of all arrests), with firearms least often
used (0.2 percent).[/i]
You can’t be serious! This is like comparing apples to…cello strings.
It’s not the “chance of being the victim of a shark attack” here. It’s more the chance of people spending some time with sharks and not being attacked.[/quote]
Well, I’m talking about the chance of an American being the victim of police brutality/unjustified shooting. Seems awfully damn small. Like being the victim of a shark attack.
[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
It’s only been getting worse.[/quote]
Has it? And what are the numbers like now? Do you have a link. I’d like to read your source.
[quote]orion wrote:
When the US has more people incarcerated and yet more violent crimes are committed than in every other country you probably should care what is happening in other countries.[/quote]
Fantastic idea - so when someone starts a thread with the topic primarily being incarceration rates and violent crimes, we can offer up comparisons. When discussing whether American cops are wacko bullies or underappreciated, hardworking, decent types, I’ll file your advice where I normally do.
Absolute nonsense, of course - and that is because we are evaluating a subject on its independent merits. As I stated earlier, if you want to compare cops across cultures, you don’t get to cherrypick reasons they might act a certain way - there are many different factors that might contribute to the differences.
If American cops don’t act like Austrian cops, it could be all kinds of things - the justice system, the pay scale, the traditions of the job, the subculture and family, social expectations, better benefits, higher/lower education requirements - the list goes on and on.
And it is pointless. We are evaluating American cops on their own merits - good, bad, or indifferent, within our own culture - and what cops do in Austria or any other place in the world sheds little light on that particular question.
Not really - we all get your schtick, it’s not much of a secret.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I don’t get why so many non-americans are so interested in the perceived short comings of the US justice system.
[/quote]
False modesty.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Police are more accountable for their actions in the US than in most other countries.
Sure. Compared to Mexico or Egypt, American cops are pretty accountable alright.
We know the Muslim population in France burned thousands of cars claiming the police are too heavy handed.
The executioners of Rodney King were “heavy handed”. The electrocution of Bouna and Zyed was accidental.
…
Executioners of Rodney King? Did I mess something? He drunk drove the wrong way down a one way street at high speeds and attacked the cops. They beat the crap out of him and then gave him millions of dollars. When was he executed?
I view it as lynching. So yes, they were executioners![/quote]
So you are comparing someone being hanged to death with someone being beaten and paid millions of dollars? I think you are trivializing lynching.
That would be a good game show, Pay some guy a million dollars to get beat up on TV. Kind of like boxing, but less skill is required. Shit I would do it.
Did you hear about the new European Union flag? It is red and green and says “FUCK AMERICA” in white letters.
I think their should be repercussions for pursueing a poor case. My brother could of spent six months in jail waiting for his case to be dismissed if we didnt bail him out(cost 30,000 dollars). Plus, we had to get a real lawyer(another 30g) because the freebie lawyer was telling him to take a deal because of the “severity of the charges” in spite of the complete lack of evidence.
A girl he had been dating and was broken up with(who was after him about a car, because she wanted him to buy her one) accused him of raping her. She said he went to the gas station and bought her liquor(security cameras revealed that to be a lie), then threatened her at knife point, told the cops where the knife was, which was covered in a layer of dust(he apparently held it to her throat without disturbing the layer of dust), recants her statement, says he did it when the DA threatens her with jailtime, recants again and in the process of the pre-trial sends him nude pictures of herself and sleeps with him again. The only evidence was the word of an aspiring prostitute, who had been proven to be lying about what happened, yet the DA gives a go-ahead on the case, and we have nothing we can do about it, we cant sue them or anything.
And they cut up the carpet because his dog got some spooge on it a little or something and they thought it was DNA evidence(not that it matters, because he didnt say he didnt sleep with her) so the landlord had to replace that now. So it takes 6 months for them to decide they have no case and drop the charges. He could of spent six months waiting to get out of jail, that he would never get back, (he spent a few weeks in anyways) instead we got to give the bail bond 30 grand, and sign my parents house over if he runs.
Texan police seems to be one of the scariest around…
HIV-Positive Man Sentenced to 35 Years for Spitting at Officers
[i]In Dallas, Texas, an HIV-positive homeless man has been sentenced to thirty-five years in prison for spitting in the mouth and eye of a Dallas police officer. The man, Willie Campbell, was found guilty of harassing a public servant with a deadly weapon�??his saliva. None of the three officers contracted HIV.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says there are no known cases of contact with saliva, tears or sweat transmitting HIV. Campbell will not be eligible for parole until serving at least seventeen years behind bars.[/i]
[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Texan police seems to be one of the scariest around…
Maybe, but I’d much rather deal with a Texas cop than one from your cesspool of a country. [/quote]
Remind me again who is it that claimed there is any rule of law in Morocco? The place is an absolute dictatorship with a massive police state from which it derives “legitimacy”.
As for the Western Sahara, guess which country maintained the longest unbroken peace agreement with the US? You guessed right! It’s the same one that keep supplying Rabat with weapons and diplomatic shelter, and the conflict would have been solved long ago had it not been for the latter.
Thing is, Washington doesn’t recognize Morocco’s claims on the territory but doesn’t recognize the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (SADR) either. It’s clear however, that Washington is actively supporting the status quo.
P.S: What’s with digging up old articles and events?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
A year ago isn’t exactly ancient, and there is value in providing some perspective to your comments. “One of the scariest around?” I doubt it.[/quote]
I don’t know about that. I mean, 35 years for spitting on a cop seems like something straight out of fiction. And I use the term scary because they often shoot people, tasers them and all sorts of things that seem outlandish to a foreigner.
To get back to your not-so “ancient” story, you have to understand that those people the Moroccan cops cracked up are considered traitors (one of the most serious crime over there). Personally, the cops don’t scare me in Morocco because for one thing, they’re either skinny bastards or fatties. A cop that’s in shape is the 1:100 exception. And supposing you get arrested, anything from $2 to $20 should be more than enough to settle the issue with him/her. Also, their equipment is so crappy that they rarely attempt to chase you down. So they are most certainly not scary. The country remains a police state based on the sheer number of policemen and the unsophisticated intelligence gathering by public “servants”.
[quote]Also, it’s beyond me why a Moroccan living in Sweden finds it necessary to spend so much time and energy criticizing the US – especially it’s internal affairs, as in this case. Your own country or place of residence doesn’t have serious problems your efforts could be spent on?
Your own front yard is a jungle with dog shit patches throughout and you’re spending your time raising the alarm over the few weeds in your neighbor’s lawn.[/quote]
Good point. But you see, Morocco is so screwed up that it is actually progressing by leaps and bounds. Now sure, we won’t get rid of the dictatorship without a revolution, but I’m not sure if it’s such a good idea. As long as things are moving in the right direction, it’s encouraging.
Sweden…well, everything’s just aces!
Now, why do I criticize the US and not Brazil or Japan? Two words: Military interventionism. The day your country keeps its troops within its borders, I doubt foreigners would be much pressed to demand changes of policy. In fact,