Police Brutality

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
201

Milwaukee police chief proves himself a true friend to justice.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/43347632.html

Here’s the money quote (emphasis mine):

“My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we’ll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it,” Flynn said. “Maybe I’ll end up with a protest of cowboys. In the meantime, I’ve got serious offenders with access to handguns. It’s irresponsible to send a message to them that if they just carry it openly no one can bother them.”

203

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
it’s not that i’m scared or too dumb to counter your opinions, it’s just that i don’t care.
[/quote]

Of course you care. Your paycheck depends on you staying ignorant and not having your principles corrupted by reason.

204

I am a honest tax paying citizen since i was old enough to work, have never been arrested,YET.I have had relatives from several generations of my family of hard working, honest tax paying citizens,be abused by crooked power hungry cops.I went through my local police academy to be a cop.I found that alot of the officers and detectives seemed to think everybody was a criminal,unless they were a cop ,relative of a cop ,or had a job such as lawyer ,doctor etc. .In my academy class of 36 people there were only 4 people that maintained a good attitude when they graduated.the others started getting the prick mentality,even the women.

I decided after graduation that it was’nt for me because we were told they had more interest in writing tickets to make money ,than housing murderers rapist etc. which cost a lot of money.I think its kind of funny when officers of the law come up with the old deal that they are out dealing with the scumbags thats why the general public does’nt understand when they are in a bad mood or are pricks.Dont they realize that we the general public have to come in contact and deal with the same scumbags they deal with but we are unarmed and cant call back up to help us out like they can.also we dont have the same rights that they get to protect ourselves.Also it seems when they screw up somebody else is usually held responsible.

205

[quote]ron33 wrote:
I am a honest tax paying citizen since i was old enough to work, have never been arrested,YET.I have had relatives from several generations of my family of hard working, honest tax paying citizens,be abused by crooked power hungry cops.I went through my local police academy to be a cop.I found that alot of the officers and detectives seemed to think everybody was a criminal,unless they were a cop ,relative of a cop ,or had a job such as lawyer ,doctor etc. .In my academy class of 36 people there were only 4 people that maintained a good attitude when they graduated.the others started getting the prick mentality,even the women.

I decided after graduation that it was’nt for me because we were told they had more interest in writing tickets to make money ,than housing murderers rapist etc. which cost a lot of money.I think its kind of funny when officers of the law come up with the old deal that they are out dealing with the scumbags thats why the general public does’nt understand when they are in a bad mood or are pricks.Dont they realize that we the general public have to come in contact and deal with the same scumbags they deal with but we are unarmed and cant call back up to help us out like they can.also we dont have the same rights that they get to protect ourselves.Also it seems when they screw up somebody else is usually held responsible.[/quote]

To be fair, while we deal with the same scumbags cops do, we have the luxury of avoiding them oftentimes and don’t deal with as many in a day. Por ejemplo, my experience with whiskey tangos tends to be at Wal Mart whereas for a cop it’s while the guy is in a beer soaked wife beater…as he’s beating his wife.

mike

206

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Milwaukee police chief proves himself a true friend to justice.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/43347632.html

Here’s the money quote (emphasis mine):

“My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we’ll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it,” Flynn said. “Maybe I’ll end up with a protest of cowboys. In the meantime, I’ve got serious offenders with access to handguns. It’s irresponsible to send a message to them that if they just carry it openly no one can bother them.”

And the ratifiers of the Bill of Rights just collectively groaned and rolled over in their graves.[/quote]

Now where are all y socialist and liberal buddies constantly crying about the lack of presumption of innocence in our nation today . . . it has always amazed me that the 2nd amendment is the only one to not be constantly increased by the left.

If we applied the same logic to the 2nd amendment that they demand for the 1st and others- I’d have a tank parked in my front yard . . .ok maybe more than one, but you get my point.

This act if the equivalent of stopping every carrying cigarettes because they might smoke in a federal building - or stopping every one smoking because it might be weed - stopping the guy screwing the grizzly bear because he might be . . .well,maybe that one is ok.

The point is that a legitimate government acting in the bounds of the Constitution has nothing to fear from its armed citizens, but a government exceeding it bounds should fear its armed citizens because they have the right and power to constrain or destroy it. So if the government fears a law-abiding citizen - where does that leave it? on the side of self-preservation or on the side of Constitutional limitation?

I want a bazooka too . . . and a quad mounted .50 cal, oohh and a battery of howitzers - love the long guns!!

207

The Sheriff’s Department in my county is out of control. I’m scared of them.

208

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
ron33 wrote:
I am a honest tax paying citizen since i was old enough to work, have never been arrested,YET.I have had relatives from several generations of my family of hard working, honest tax paying citizens,be abused by crooked power hungry cops.I went through my local police academy to be a cop.I found that alot of the officers and detectives seemed to think everybody was a criminal,unless they were a cop ,relative of a cop ,or had a job such as lawyer ,doctor etc. .In my academy class of 36 people there were only 4 people that maintained a good attitude when they graduated.the others started getting the prick mentality,even the women.

I decided after graduation that it was’nt for me because we were told they had more interest in writing tickets to make money ,than housing murderers rapist etc. which cost a lot of money.I think its kind of funny when officers of the law come up with the old deal that they are out dealing with the scumbags thats why the general public does’nt understand when they are in a bad mood or are pricks.Dont they realize that we the general public have to come in contact and deal with the same scumbags they deal with but we are unarmed and cant call back up to help us out like they can.also we dont have the same rights that they get to protect ourselves.Also it seems when they screw up somebody else is usually held responsible.

To be fair, while we deal with the same scumbags cops do, we have the luxury of avoiding them oftentimes and don’t deal with as many in a day. Por ejemplo, my experience with whiskey tangos tends to be at Wal Mart whereas for a cop it’s while the guy is in a beer soaked wife beater…as he’s beating his wife.

mike[/quote]Mike, I understand what you are saying.but in my little piece of americana they are at work,in the shopping centers,driving down the road etc. everybody has different circumstances.it used to be the bad element was in certain parts of town ,now with govt. housing projects closing down it’s spread everywhere .and i’m talking white ,black and latino bad element.

209

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/15/20090515suspectkicked0515.html?&wired

Associated Press .
EL MONTE, Calif. - The Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department will review a televised arrest in which a suburban police officer kicked a suspect who had given up and was lying facedown on the ground, a police spokesman said Thursday.

The El Monte police officer who kicked the suspect Wednesday has been reassigned to duties not in the field, police spokesman Ken Alva said. Alva said that the actions of a second officer who struck the suspect with a flashlight will be examined.

TV news helicopters followed the action as police pursued the suspect’s vehicle through suburbs east of Los Angeles. The driver got out of the car after it crashed, ran into a walled backyard and quickly gave up.

He lay facedown with his arms spread wide. An officer then ran up with a gun drawn and delivered a quick kick to the man’s head or neck.

Other officers arrived to help cuff the man, and one of them struck him with a flashlight. The officer who delivered the kick then high-fived an officer handling a police dog.

210

After perusing through this thread I did find it an intersting read. There was an option brought up several pages ago but the idea was not expanded upon very much.

Volunteer Fire departments were brought up and the idea that this could work for PD. I can speak from experience that this would by and large not work. Simply check the facts on how many volly FD’s are struggling to recruit members. Too many people subscribe to the idea that “somebody else will take care of this”, or “my life is just way to busy with a job and a wife and kids and a house”. People by and large do not want to get involved. Yes there is a select group in this thread that do, but how many have looked at this thread and not posted at all?

Volly FD’s are woefully underfunded (due to a lower tax base) with lesser equipment that is often outdated and in need of serious repair. Their training is often substandard and abilities much reduced because of this (this does not apply to all but a large majority have this issue).

BTW my father in law was an officer and I know several other officers as wll. Just like with any profession there are good people and corrupt people, also keep in mind that many have orders to follow also. They may not like some of the orders but unless you want to lose your job (in this economy that may not be a good idea) you have to carry the order out.

211

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
After perusing through this thread I did find it an intersting read. There was an option brought up several pages ago but the idea was not expanded upon very much.

Volunteer Fire departments were brought up and the idea that this could work for PD. I can speak from experience that this would by and large not work. Simply check the facts on how many volly FD’s are struggling to recruit members. Too many people subscribe to the idea that “somebody else will take care of this”, or “my life is just way to busy with a job and a wife and kids and a house”. People by and large do not want to get involved. Yes there is a select group in this thread that do, but how many have looked at this thread and not posted at all?

Volly FD’s are woefully underfunded (due to a lower tax base) with lesser equipment that is often outdated and in need of serious repair. Their training is often substandard and abilities much reduced because of this (this does not apply to all but a large majority have this issue).

BTW my father in law was an officer and I know several other officers as wll. Just like with any profession there are good people and corrupt people, also keep in mind that many have orders to follow also. They may not like some of the orders but unless you want to lose your job (in this economy that may not be a good idea) you have to carry the order out.[/quote]

You may well be right and we might have a hard time getting volunteers. That said, fewer cops means that they would be required to prioritize and enforce more serious crimes.

Secondly, if you just follow orders then you’re a coward. Moral courage is much more difficult to find than physical courage. Not calling cops Nazis (except the BATFE) but they were just following orders. Is it okay to throw jews in ovens to put food on the table?

I’d rather work at McDo’s with honor than serve dishonably as a cop.

mike

212

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
After perusing through this thread I did find it an intersting read. There was an option brought up several pages ago but the idea was not expanded upon very much.

Volunteer Fire departments were brought up and the idea that this could work for PD. I can speak from experience that this would by and large not work. Simply check the facts on how many volly FD’s are struggling to recruit members. Too many people subscribe to the idea that “somebody else will take care of this”, or “my life is just way to busy with a job and a wife and kids and a house”. People by and large do not want to get involved. Yes there is a select group in this thread that do, but how many have looked at this thread and not posted at all?

Volly FD’s are woefully underfunded (due to a lower tax base) with lesser equipment that is often outdated and in need of serious repair. Their training is often substandard and abilities much reduced because of this (this does not apply to all but a large majority have this issue).

BTW my father in law was an officer and I know several other officers as wll. Just like with any profession there are good people and corrupt people, also keep in mind that many have orders to follow also. They may not like some of the orders but unless you want to lose your job (in this economy that may not be a good idea) you have to carry the order out.

You may well be right and we might have a hard time getting volunteers. That said, fewer cops means that they would be required to prioritize and enforce more serious crimes.

Secondly, if you just follow orders then you’re a coward. Moral courage is much more difficult to find than physical courage. Not calling cops Nazis (except the BATFE) but they were just following orders. Is it okay to throw jews in ovens to put food on the table?

I’d rather work at McDo’s with honor than serve dishonably as a cop.

mike[/quote]

I understand your feeling that fewer cops means they would have prioritize and focus on more serious crimes. That being said who gets to decide what a more serious crime is (besides what is considered your major felonies ie murder, rape, kidnapping)? Is it of major importance to prevent a spouse from beating the crap out of the other one, before it gets to murder?

Is it a major crime to pull over the drunk driver before he plows into the family of three killing them? Sometime fewer is not the answer education and training would be the answer, but you have to get people in charge to change their thinking on what they want to budget money for.

Secondly, following orders does not make you a coward. I’m sure there are SEVERAL soldiers who read this site regularly that would disagree with you. I know I work in a paramilitary organization and I have to follow orders it’s part of the job and life.

Unless you have been in charge of yourself and your decisions since birth you have followed orders. Whether they be from your parents teachers or your boss at McD’s.

I’m not sure on your age but the occupation you have listed is student. So that would mean that you have to follow orders at school correct?

213

BTW Mike I see from another thread that you were in the Corp. So I see you have firsthand experience at having to follow orders.

214

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
BTW Mike I see from another thread that you were in the Corp. So I see you have firsthand experience at having to follow orders.[/quote]

That’s Corps. And yes, I have plenty of experience following orders. I also have plenty of experience not following orders. Infantry guys tend to have shitty attitudes with bullshit orders.

Following orders certainly does not make you a coward. That said, following unlawful or unjust orders does make you either a coward or equally guilty in the injustice being ordered.

As a military man, and in my mind as a citizen, my duty is in upholding the Constitution. Following unlawful orders (as many if not most police do) goes against that duty. The Nuremberg defense has no place in following in even the most minor of unjust orders.

Do understand I’m not some blind cop hater. Thanks to the gentle prodding of some on this board I’ve tempered myself. But you have to understand that what I do and have put my ass on the line for is the opposite of what a cop does. In some ways we’re natural enemies. I’m a fighter in the war to expand the sphere of liberty. A police officer today must curtail liberty in order to secure order.

mike

Corp. hehe, Reminds me of a story of this guy I knew in the fleet. We were in Weapons Company and he was nailing this chick who was a pacifist. He told her that he wasn’t in the military, but rather worked for a Weapons Company.

215

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
After perusing through this thread I did find it an intersting read. There was an option brought up several pages ago but the idea was not expanded upon very much.

Volunteer Fire departments were brought up and the idea that this could work for PD. I can speak from experience that this would by and large not work. Simply check the facts on how many volly FD’s are struggling to recruit members. Too many people subscribe to the idea that “somebody else will take care of this”, or “my life is just way to busy with a job and a wife and kids and a house”. People by and large do not want to get involved. Yes there is a select group in this thread that do, but how many have looked at this thread and not posted at all?

Volly FD’s are woefully underfunded (due to a lower tax base) with lesser equipment that is often outdated and in need of serious repair. Their training is often substandard and abilities much reduced because of this (this does not apply to all but a large majority have this issue).

BTW my father in law was an officer and I know several other officers as wll. Just like with any profession there are good people and corrupt people, also keep in mind that many have orders to follow also. They may not like some of the orders but unless you want to lose your job (in this economy that may not be a good idea) you have to carry the order out.[/quote]

My Great Uncle was a Sheriffs deputy back in the 40â??s and 50â??s, any how I remember him telling different stories about having to walk up to houses that had not only potentially violent people but actual violent people inside. Part of what made you a good cop was your ability to communicate with people that had limited understanding.
Now with the militarization of police, it never occurs to them to try and talk.

216

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
BTW Mike I see from another thread that you were in the Corp. So I see you have firsthand experience at having to follow orders.

That’s Corps. And yes, I have plenty of experience following orders. I also have plenty of experience not following orders. Infantry guys tend to have shitty attitudes with bullshit orders.

Following orders certainly does not make you a coward. That said, following unlawful or unjust orders does make you either a coward or equally guilty in the injustice being ordered.

As a military man, and in my mind as a citizen, my duty is in upholding the Constitution. Following unlawful orders (as many if not most police do) goes against that duty. The Nuremberg defense has no place in following in even the most minor of unjust orders.

Do understand I’m not some blind cop hater. Thanks to the gentle prodding of some on this board I’ve tempered myself. But you have to understand that what I do and have put my ass on the line for is the opposite of what a cop does. In some ways we’re natural enemies. I’m a fighter in the war to expand the sphere of liberty. A police officer today must curtail liberty in order to secure order.

mike

Corp. hehe, Reminds me of a story of this guy I knew in the fleet. We were in Weapons Company and he was nailing this chick who was a pacifist. He told her that he wasn’t in the military, but rather worked for a Weapons Company.[/quote]

Mike, my apologies about that I meant to type Corps but at almost 0030 and after argueing with dispatch over correcting a call in our reporting system I made that typo.

217

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Mike, my apologies about that I meant to type Corps but at almost 0030 and after argueing with dispatch over correcting a call in our reporting system I made that typo.[/quote]

No harm done, it’s cool.

mike

218

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/15/20090515suspectkicked0515.html?&wired

Associated Press .
EL MONTE, Calif. - The Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department will review a televised arrest in which a suburban police officer kicked a suspect who had given up and was lying facedown on the ground, a police spokesman said Thursday.

The El Monte police officer who kicked the suspect Wednesday has been reassigned to duties not in the field, police spokesman Ken Alva said. Alva said that the actions of a second officer who struck the suspect with a flashlight will be examined.

TV news helicopters followed the action as police pursued the suspect’s vehicle through suburbs east of Los Angeles. The driver got out of the car after it crashed, ran into a walled backyard and quickly gave up.

He lay facedown with his arms spread wide. An officer then ran up with a gun drawn and delivered a quick kick to the man’s head or neck.

Other officers arrived to help cuff the man, and one of them struck him with a flashlight. The officer who delivered the kick then high-fived an officer handling a police dog.

[/quote]

I wish that cop kicked that punk gang banger harder. Now he will probably sue. But none of the driving 80mph through residential areas and a lady having to jump for her life will be considered. Punk ass kid has a rap sheet a mile long.

219

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/15/20090515suspectkicked0515.html?&wired

Associated Press .
EL MONTE, Calif. - The Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department will review a televised arrest in which a suburban police officer kicked a suspect who had given up and was lying facedown on the ground, a police spokesman said Thursday.

The El Monte police officer who kicked the suspect Wednesday has been reassigned to duties not in the field, police spokesman Ken Alva said. Alva said that the actions of a second officer who struck the suspect with a flashlight will be examined.

TV news helicopters followed the action as police pursued the suspect’s vehicle through suburbs east of Los Angeles. The driver got out of the car after it crashed, ran into a walled backyard and quickly gave up.

He lay facedown with his arms spread wide. An officer then ran up with a gun drawn and delivered a quick kick to the man’s head or neck.

Other officers arrived to help cuff the man, and one of them struck him with a flashlight. The officer who delivered the kick then high-fived an officer handling a police dog.

I wish that cop kicked that punk gang banger harder. Now he will probably sue. But none of the driving 80mph through residential areas and a lady having to jump for her life will be considered. Punk ass kid has a rap sheet a mile long. [/quote]

Thanks for your input:)

220

My experience with every police officer in uniform has been bad. I don’t know why, I get the impression a lot of them are just hostile all the time. Even being stopped for something like speeding or not signaling, I feel like the guy just gets out of his car and is pissed about something completely unrelated to any minor traffic violation.

There’s also this “respect” they demand, like they are your superior in the military or something, and always freak out if you don’t call them “Sir”. Like your just supposed to give them respect because they went through X Y and Z to be a police officer and now I’m supposed to owe them something. Respect is earned by being respectful, not by being a sociopath and profiling people and searching my car for drugs even though everyone knows you “smelled” nothing. I feel like if a cop has and issue with you he just feels like he has to resort to some type of violence and aggression with absolutely no reasoning, like they all have this short fuse, and we give these guys pistols and tasers and pepper spray. Then wonder why it seems like every single day someone gets “over” tasered and dies.

I’m more afraid of confrontation with a cop then any misguided young person/criminal/etc. If I see two cops on one side of the street, and two crazy looking homeless people on the other side of the road, I’m going to cross to the homeless crazy person side. Why? Because they aren’t getting paid to try to find something wrong with the way I carry myself.

This obviously doesn’t go for all cops whatsoever, granted I’ve only come in contact with maybe 5-6 cops in my life, and that is basically all I can gather from from my experience and basically everyone else I know. It might just have something to do with being 21, maybe when I’m older they won’t instinctively have a problem with me.