Public Servant or Master, is this an epidemic
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Public Servant or Master, is this an epidemic[/quote]
Perhaps you could keep your crusade limited to US police? What, we have to answer for what every domestic security agent in the world does? You going to post something from the Iranian secret police next?
And where have you been anyway? Laying low for the past few weeks as we were gunned down trying to deal with the enemies of society?
My question would be would Europe?s problems mirror the US, It seems the world is having issues with the police thinking they are public Masters rather than public Servants
You have to excuse me; I thought the title to this forum was Politics and World issues
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
My question would be would Europe?s problems mirror the US, It seems the world is having issues with the police thinking they are public Masters rather than public Servants
You have to excuse me; I thought the title to this forum was Politics and World issues
[/quote]
But what you see here is also an interesting phenomenon:
Little Brother is watching them-
Since a lot a cell phones have a small camera, voice or even video recorder they do not get away with this shit so easily.
[quote]orion wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
My question would be would Europe?s problems mirror the US, It seems the world is having issues with the police thinking they are public Masters rather than public Servants
You have to excuse me; I thought the title to this forum was Politics and World issues
But what you see here is also an interesting phenomenon:
Little Brother is watching them-
Since a lot a cell phones have a small camera, voice or even video recorder they do not get away with this shit so easily.
[/quote]
not only that their own dash cams
okay, i’m only about a third of the way through this thread, but will comment now on a few things…
as some of you know, i am a police officer, and am still serving in my state’s National Guard. i am not a legal expert, nor do i know everything. however, some of your veiws are misinformed, at best.
firstly, the “war on Drugs” isn’t busy work for the cops. personally, my focus is to deter crime, specifically property and violent crime. and i’m very, very busy doing this…
drugs can have a hell of an effect on people. we have laws to deter people from using them, so we don’t have to arrest them down the road. i’ve met many long term crack and meth users who now suffer from long-term psychosis due to abuse, and btw, they’re not particularly fun to fight with.
secondly, thankyou for sterotyping all cops. we’re all a bunch of corupt racist motherfuckers. now that we’ve got that out of the way, do you know the circumstance of every arrest you’ve seen? are you aware of search and siezure laws, and what consitiutes a legal stop, or high crime area?
pardon me, but if i see somebody walking through backyards in the early morning hours wearing dark clothes, i’m gonna stop them. oh, and by the way, that’s how we caught a convicted rapist “window peeping” the other day…
i understand that some of my co-workers are jerks, but i get really tired of…well, pretty much everyone whining about the cops messing with them, but complaining how long it tooks us to get here when they ned to report something.
i try very hard to be civil and respectful to all people, but if someone flips me a bunch of shit when i’m investigating a crime, i’m not gonna take it. i don’t have time, and i’m gonna make sure i can do whatever i can for the victim(s) of a crime.
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
okay, i’m only about a third of the way through this thread, but will comment now on a few things…
as some of you know, i am a police officer, and am still serving in my state’s National Guard. i am not a legal expert, nor do i know everything. however, some of your veiws are misinformed, at best.
firstly, the “war on Drugs” isn’t busy work for the cops. personally, my focus is to deter crime, specifically property and violent crime. and i’m very, very busy doing this…
drugs can have a hell of an effect on people. we have laws to deter people from using them, so we don’t have to arrest them down the road. i’ve met many long term crack and meth users who now suffer from long-term psychosis due to abuse, and btw, they’re not particularly fun to fight with.
secondly, thankyou for sterotyping all cops. we’re all a bunch of corupt racist motherfuckers. now that we’ve got that out of the way, do you know the circumstance of every arrest you’ve seen? are you aware of search and siezure laws, and what consitiutes a legal stop, or high crime area?
pardon me, but if i see somebody walking through backyards in the early morning hours wearing dark clothes, i’m gonna stop them. oh, and by the way, that’s how we caught a convicted rapist “window peeping” the other day…
i understand that some of my co-workers are jerks, but i get really tired of…well, pretty much everyone whining about the cops messing with them, but complaining how long it tooks us to get here when they ned to report something.
i try very hard to be civil and respectful to all people, but if someone flips me a bunch of shit when i’m investigating a crime, i’m not gonna take it. i don’t have time, and i’m gonna make sure i can do whatever i can for the victim(s) of a crime.[/quote]
I am sure you are a fine upstanding officer, If I were you I would dissuade the officers from continuing their career if they are not suited for public service, You probably would have more time to deal with the public if you were not chasing every kid with a joint .
The war on drugs is up for debate, I personally see it as a way for the Government to insert the police in anybody?s life they wish. I agree with you most drugs are bad for people, including Alcohol and tobacco. But we do not throw drunks in jail unless they are disorderly. And if we did not have a mark up on drugs because of the war on them, they would be cheap and property crimes would be less because you would not have to support a thousand dollar a day habit. Maybe also employers would say this junkie can do this job, so maybe I will give him the job.
I personally am 51 years old, in good shape, am clean cut, have a squeaky clean record. But have had run in with police that violated my rights ,All in the name of the war on drugs and if I would have taken advantage of my rights , I would have probably been arrested , it could have cost me thousands of dollars , I would no longer have a squeaky clean record.
Now if you take some one that did not grow up like I did , maybe he looks like a thug , because that is the prevalent style, Maybe he does not know if you have a disagreement with the police , you are going to lose. Maybe that is why some one that is totally innocent and has a run in with police and loses.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
My question would be would Europe?s problems mirror the US, It seems the world is having issues with the police thinking they are public Masters rather than public Servants
You have to excuse me; I thought the title to this forum was Politics and World issues
[/quote]
Right. World Issues. Like I said, get some video from the KGB or Iranian secret police and post that too. Then feel free to draw a nexus to the discussion on American policing. That is very reasonable.
Look, I am as “small government” and libertarian as any of you. Read some of what I have posted. I am also telling you that my experience in law enforcement does not bear out any wide scale conspiracy to “become your masters”, especially when talking about state and local guys. That line almost smacks of the tin foil hat brigade.
In fact, the opposite is true and I have hundreds of personal examples of the foot soldiers reigning in an overzealous guy who wasn’t being respectful enough of people’s rights.
I won’t bother discussing it further however, as I know how hard a bias can be to change.
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
drugs can have a hell of an effect on people. we have laws to deter people from using them, so we don’t have to arrest them down the road. [/quote]
Tarnslation: We have laws to deter people from using them, so we don’t have to wait for them to actually break an honest law to arrest them. Oh yeah, we also wrap up a mountain of other people who’ve never hurt anyone before.
Wait, so you’re telling me that you caught someone who was a rapist and you did it by enforcing valid property laws? Who knew that you didn’t have to enforce bullshit laws to catch the bad guys?[quote]
i understand that some of my co-workers are jerks, but i get really tired of…well, pretty much everyone whining about the cops messing with them, but complaining how long it tooks us to get here when they ned to report something.
[/quote]
What I find so damned funny about this is back when I was listening to the pro-cop crowd talking about how all the good Muslims need to weed out the bad ones before crying about our profiling them. Sucks when it gets done to cops doesn’t it? I’m sure there are good cops. I’ve met some. I’ve met some on this board, but your attitude particularly in the following paragraph is indicitive that you’re not one of them.[quote]
i try very hard to be civil and respectful to all people, but if someone flips me a bunch of shit when i’m investigating a crime, i’m not gonna take it. i don’t have time, and i’m gonna make sure i can do whatever i can for the victim(s) of a crime.[/quote]
I’ve seen this in action. This is what got my friend arrested crossing a damned crosswalk. Guy’s on his cell phone holding hands with his GF and the cop stops to arrest him claiming that he was flipped off (which is protected speech) and that my buddy blocked the road. Neither situation was true. But I guess he thought someone was “flipping him a bunch of shit”.
mike
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
No, but I know the circumstances of every time I’ve been illigally searched or treated improperly by police. It appears that those cops weren’t aware of search and seizure laws either. Only difference is that for you guys to get in trouble I have to prove that you knew what the law was and violated it anyways.
mike[/quote]
There are good reasons why the police are not held to the same standard as lawyers in terms of knowledge of law, particularly search and seizure. That is all attorneys do and they go to school for years for it. Theoretically, the police are being trained to do many more things…firefighter, EMT, social worker, teacher, commando and so on. you also have the problem of operating in real time in the real world which changes the game significantly from the time it reaches a prosecutor’s desk.
We can’t be expected to have a very high level understanding of search and seizure law and this is well grounded in the American legal system. That said, it is the responsibility of the police to keep up as best they can.
If I feel I am very unsure about search and seizure in a given circumstance, I will give the benefit of the doubt to the citizen if it is a minor issue. If it is a major one, nobody moves and I will get more help and more opinions. I can even get a prosecutor’s attorney on the phone if need be. I have never had a problem operating that way.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
My question would be would Europe?s problems mirror the US, It seems the world is having issues with the police thinking they are public Masters rather than public Servants
You have to excuse me; I thought the title to this forum was Politics and World issues
Right. World Issues. Like I said, get some video from the KGB or Iranian secret police and post that too. Then feel free to draw a nexus to the discussion on American policing. That is very reasonable.
Look, I am as “small government” and libertarian as any of you. Read some of what I have posted. I am also telling you that my experience in law enforcement does not bear out any wide scale conspiracy to “become your masters”, especially when talking about state and local guys. That line almost smacks of the tin foil hat brigade.
In fact, the opposite is true and I have hundreds of personal examples of the foot soldiers reigning in an overzealous guy who wasn’t being respectful enough of people’s rights.
I won’t bother discussing it further however, as I know how hard a bias can be to change.[/quote]
I personally do not think a place known for human rights violations would be a good bench mark for America. Why I think the police need to be particularly sensitive toward the tax payers, is that once you alienate a citizen he will never sympathize when some one declares war on the police. Spain, Italy and other European countries have seen problems with the masses because the Cops put the cart before the horse. I would hate to think what would happen if you had a real organized assault on the police forces of America. You would find an advantage to have the masses on your side. I would never condone such a thing, but you must admit that it is a real threat and you need good people .
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
JD430 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
My question would be would Europe?s problems mirror the US, It seems the world is having issues with the police thinking they are public Masters rather than public Servants
You have to excuse me; I thought the title to this forum was Politics and World issues
Right. World Issues. Like I said, get some video from the KGB or Iranian secret police and post that too. Then feel free to draw a nexus to the discussion on American policing. That is very reasonable.
Look, I am as “small government” and libertarian as any of you. Read some of what I have posted. I am also telling you that my experience in law enforcement does not bear out any wide scale conspiracy to “become your masters”, especially when talking about state and local guys. That line almost smacks of the tin foil hat brigade.
In fact, the opposite is true and I have hundreds of personal examples of the foot soldiers reigning in an overzealous guy who wasn’t being respectful enough of people’s rights.
I won’t bother discussing it further however, as I know how hard a bias can be to change.
I personally do not think a place known for human rights violations would be a good bench mark for America. Why I think the police need to be particularly sensitive toward the tax payers, is that once you alienate a citizen he will never sympathize when some one declares war on the police. Spain, Italy and other European countries have seen problems with the masses because the Cops put the cart before the horse. I would hate to think what would happen if you had a real organized assault on the police forces of America. You would find an advantage to have the masses on your side. I would never condone such a thing, but you must admit that it is a real threat and you need good people .
[/quote]
You do not even want to know how the Irish treated their police during their war of independence.
Turns out heavily armed police posts are very attractive targets of you need arms to start a revolution.
So, I guess the militarization of the American police has its upsides too.
[quote]orion wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
JD430 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
My question would be would Europe?s problems mirror the US, It seems the world is having issues with the police thinking they are public Masters rather than public Servants
You have to excuse me; I thought the title to this forum was Politics and World issues
Right. World Issues. Like I said, get some video from the KGB or Iranian secret police and post that too. Then feel free to draw a nexus to the discussion on American policing. That is very reasonable.
Look, I am as “small government” and libertarian as any of you. Read some of what I have posted. I am also telling you that my experience in law enforcement does not bear out any wide scale conspiracy to “become your masters”, especially when talking about state and local guys. That line almost smacks of the tin foil hat brigade.
In fact, the opposite is true and I have hundreds of personal examples of the foot soldiers reigning in an overzealous guy who wasn’t being respectful enough of people’s rights.
I won’t bother discussing it further however, as I know how hard a bias can be to change.
I personally do not think a place known for human rights violations would be a good bench mark for America. Why I think the police need to be particularly sensitive toward the tax payers, is that once you alienate a citizen he will never sympathize when some one declares war on the police. Spain, Italy and other European countries have seen problems with the masses because the Cops put the cart before the horse. I would hate to think what would happen if you had a real organized assault on the police forces of America. You would find an advantage to have the masses on your side. I would never condone such a thing, but you must admit that it is a real threat and you need good people .
You do not even want to know how the Irish treated their police during their war of independence.
Turns out heavily armed police posts are very attractive targets of you need arms to start a revolution.
So, I guess the militarization of the American police has its upsides too.
[/quote]
The police would lose , there is no way to win without public support
whatever…i won’t particpate in your cop bashing anymore.
it’s not that i’m scared or too dumb to counter your opinions, it’s just that i don’t care. you can talk tough behind the internet, and i’ll be out on the street, or across the pond, taking care of the problems that you’re afaid to.
good luck.
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
whatever…i won’t particpate in your cop bashing anymore.
it’s not that i’m scared or too dumb to counter your opinions, it’s just that i don’t care. you can talk tough behind the internet, and i’ll be out on the street, or across the pond, taking care of the problems that you’re afaid to.
good luck.[/quote]
No offense meant
[quote]JD430 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
No, but I know the circumstances of every time I’ve been illigally searched or treated improperly by police. It appears that those cops weren’t aware of search and seizure laws either. Only difference is that for you guys to get in trouble I have to prove that you knew what the law was and violated it anyways.
mike
There are good reasons why the police are not held to the same standard as lawyers in terms of knowledge of law, particularly search and seizure. That is all attorneys do and they go to school for years for it. [/quote]
That’s a fair statement. It’s just so damn easy to play ignorant. Do you guys get refresher training when things change?
mike
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
it’s just that i don’t care.[/quote]
You’ve made that abundantly clear. This attitude is precisely what I’m talking about. [quote]
you can talk tough behind the internet, and i’ll be out on the street, or across the pond, taking care of the problems that you’re afaid to.
good luck.[/quote]
laughs Can you even begin to justify so arrogant a statement?
I’d just like to point out that you don’t see the military guys here flip out over having their jobs scrutinized as often as I’ve seen it from police.
I feel sorry for the citizen who runs into you that is aware of his rights.
mike
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
JD430 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
No, but I know the circumstances of every time I’ve been illigally searched or treated improperly by police. It appears that those cops weren’t aware of search and seizure laws either. Only difference is that for you guys to get in trouble I have to prove that you knew what the law was and violated it anyways.
mike
There are good reasons why the police are not held to the same standard as lawyers in terms of knowledge of law, particularly search and seizure. That is all attorneys do and they go to school for years for it.
That’s a fair statement. It’s just so damn easy to play ignorant. Do you guys get refresher training when things change?
mike[/quote]
Yes but it is not thorough. You also have to realize that the foundation taught in the police academy is very, very basic simply because of time restrictions.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
JD430 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
No, but I know the circumstances of every time I’ve been illigally searched or treated improperly by police. It appears that those cops weren’t aware of search and seizure laws either. Only difference is that for you guys to get in trouble I have to prove that you knew what the law was and violated it anyways.
mike
There are good reasons why the police are not held to the same standard as lawyers in terms of knowledge of law, particularly search and seizure. That is all attorneys do and they go to school for years for it.
That’s a fair statement. It’s just so damn easy to play ignorant. Do you guys get refresher training when things change?
mike
Yes but it is not thorough. You also have to realize that the foundation taught in the police academy is very, very basic simply because of time restrictions. [/quote]
An idea:
Fewer laws mean less effort necessary enforcing them mean less police necessary mean the same resources spent would get you a better educated police.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
13 minuts long , i think it would be worth it if it were an hour long