Planned Parenthood

oldstyle00 · October 1, 2015, 4:59pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]oldstyle00 wrote:
Now you can say Oldstyle that shit is rare, but guess what it isn’t very rare when shit like that is happening to you. When you have a loved one laying in a hospital bed struggling its very real and not rare.[/quote]

When someone breaks into your house, and tries to murder you and rape your wife and daughter, if you kill them before they get the chance, did you murder them?

No. You acted in self defense.

Why would the death of an innocent child through abortion not come with the same shades of gray?

End of the day, if Health of the Mother reasons was actually the purpose of the left supporting abortion (this includes rape and incest), then the political battle wouldn’t be taking place. Because the abortion count would be around 3k a year and looked at as a tragic medical procedure where people were placed in a tough position.

Unfortunately, as Drew so aptly pointed out, pro-aborts want it legal for a lot more reasons than Health of the Mother, namely the arrogant assumption that being dead is better than being born poor or into a situation that isn’t Dan fucking Blizeran.

It’s funny, but my pro-abort wife and I had this conversation when she was pregnant with my daughter. She told me if I chose here over my daughter she would pissed, and it likely would have ruined my marriage. Her words “I’ve lived my life, she needs the opportunity to.” I’m thankful I didn’t have to make that choice.

First off, it isn’t my view that a unique life begins at conception, it is irrefutable scientific fact. And nothing but “muah feels” has been posted to refute that fact.

Secondly, see above in regards to the surgery.

Third, again where it attacks doesn’t make it NOT a unique human life. You brought this up as a fallacy, I get that. But it doesn’t show anything, or refute any scientific facts you continue to refuse to acknowledge. [/quote]

Not to derail this giant oldstyle attack, but beans how do you get your comments in bold after all of my points. When I type after it says quote it just shows my writing as if it is yours. Or anyone else can help as well.

countingbeans · October 1, 2015, 5:01pm

[quote]oldstyle00 wrote:
You guys aren’t putting a shade of grey on it. You guys are saying an abortion equals murder no matter what. [/quote]

It is, sure, when done for convenience. But just like in self defense, killing in self defense is not murder.

If the pregnancy is going to kill the mother, or otherwise irreparably harm her (rape), I’m certainly willing to dance with the devil and compromise with what could very well be evil. And as I’ve stated previous in the thread, I’ll deal with any backlash from a higher power for making that deal. It’s call saving a couple hundred thousand people a year and only losing a couple k, rather than losing them all.

Just like your justification for abortion, you’re pretending here.

You don’t see my position at all. You deny basic scientific fact, therefore you dont’ see my position. You “believe”. I read text books with proven scientific facts in them. You “think” and “feel”. I know.

Worst strawman bullshit I’ve seen yet from you. And I’m disappointed to be honest.

I never said one human was more important than the other, you pro-aborts do. Stop projecting.

I said all people deserve equal protection of their rights under the law, and science proves that an unborn baby is in fact a person. You guys like to pretend otherwise based on feels.

Fucks given what any politician thinks about abortion: zero.

The hell makes you think I support any of them?

Not directly no.

[quote]I have written in my posts people (medical experts and scientists who do not believe life begins at conception. Actually when Roe v Wade was in the supreme court they sent a Doctor up to the mayo clinic to find out when life begins guess what he came back with no definitive answer. That is part of the reason the court stated it begins when the fetus can live outside the womb. You are using Scientific fact when it should be theory. I have shown not every expert agrees with you, there are experts at damn near every fetal life stage trying to determine when a human is living and thus granted the same rights.

[/quote]

An op-ed from BBC? That is your source to refute what is plain and clear language in every biology textbook the world over?

lmao…

Not to mention I could destroy most of that drivel.

100% false.

Again. Name the doctor or scientist that refutes with evidence the following:

a unique (Important word there, that UNIQUE) human life begins at conception.

It’s man trying to play nature… I wouldn’t do it, I wouldn’t recommend anyone do it. I dont’ like it. But I’m not looking to blow up the labs here.

At least they are trying to MAKE babies and not execute them.

[quote] There are fertilized eggs that are not used, should those then be saved and implanted into other woman because they are unique humans. Those have the potential to be a fetus just as much as a fertilized egg inside a woman.

I am just trying to point out there is a lot of grey area on this subject, I get your hard lined on it I respect that I am just trying to bring different perspectives to the subject.
[/quote]

Until your different perspective admit what abortion is, like Drew is unafraid of doing, the wholesale slaughter of innocent life for the convenience of some, your different perspectives will fall on deaf ears. Because I don’t play pretend with adults, and I’m not into mental gymnastics to rationalize something that shouldn’t’ be rationalized.

countingbeans · October 1, 2015, 5:04pm

[quote]oldstyle00 wrote:

Not to derail this giant oldstyle attack, but beans how do you get your comments in bold after all of my points. When I type after it says quote it just shows my writing as if it is yours. Or anyone else can help as well.
[/quote]

You have to put an “end quote” after my thoughts, and then a “quote” before I start again.

You’ll get the hang of it after awhile.

end quote = [/quote@] without the @
quote = [quote@] without the @

countingbeans · October 1, 2015, 5:07pm

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]oldstyle00 wrote:

Its more then half the world.
[/quote]
Looks like a map of slavery laws a couple of hundred years ago. [/quote]

Not to mention a massive Appeal to Popularity.

Everyone on Earth could believe 2+2=5 except me. Doesn’t change the fact you’ll only have four apples when you hold two in each hand.

countingbeans · October 1, 2015, 5:25pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

I don’t view a under 20-week fetus the same as a baby…

[/quote]

What is it? “A glob of goo?”[/quote]

This is a valid question.

If the person isn’t a person until 20 weeks, what is that person? (I mean, obviously other than expendable tissue available for research.)

sufiandy · October 1, 2015, 5:36pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
…I understand the arguments put forth here, so not need to get into them again. My only point is that every pro-life person here says they are right, science shows it, and history will prove it. There are two sides to this, and I remain pro-choice, up to a point, even after hearing all the well sounded points made…

[/quote]

The EXACT same thing was heard across the land…in 1855:

"I understand the arguments put forth here, so no need to get into them again. My only point is that every anti-slavery person here says they are right, science shows it, and history will prove it. There are two sides to this, and I remain pro-slavery, up to a point, even after hearing all the well sounded points made…[/quote]

So what was the argument in 1855 that changed all this?

The exact same thing was heard across the land in 1755?

pittbulll · October 1, 2015, 5:38pm

[quote]Blowharder wrote:

You have no business proclaiming only wanted children should be allowed to live. None. That is despicable.[/quote]

pittbulll · October 1, 2015, 5:38pm

[quote]oldstyle00 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
old styl , you will see it their way or you will be marginalized , they control the board . You will find a couple that will disagree on minor points , This thread will show you the method of operation of the CJS[/quote]

I don’t mind him. He is making an effort to be intelligently disagreeable. You’re an idiot.[/quote]

JB I will accept your half-hearted compliment :)[/quote]

Don’t it is a trap:)

sufiandy · October 1, 2015, 5:40pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

I don’t view a under 20-week fetus the same as a baby…

[/quote]

What is it? “A glob of goo?”[/quote]

This is a valid question.

If the person isn’t a person until 20 weeks, what is that person? (I mean, obviously other than expendable tissue available for research.)[/quote]

Its a person, just one with slightly less value. We all value human lives differently, your family vs strangers for example.

pittbulll · October 1, 2015, 5:42pm

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

I don’t like abortion, and hope I never have to consider it. I would rather have children born into the world wanted and loved if the mother can determine early in her pregnancy that she does not want a child.

[/quote]

So you’re cool with people that shake their crying infants to death or just leave them in dumpsters to die then?

Clearly they are unwanted and unloved, your criteria for if someone is allowed rights. So you must be okay with it, right? If not, why not?

[/quote]

No, I don’t think that is ok. In that case, the mother chose to have the baby (she could have had an abortion), and suffers the consequences of that choice if she chooses to neglect that child.

I don’t view a under 20-week fetus the same as a baby, so I see a difference between the two scenarios.[/quote]
And I don’t view people who deny natural human rights the same as a functional normal non- evil human. Where does that leave us? Should I arrive at a similar conclusion about the worth and ownership of your life? Certain anyone who denies human rights doesn’t deserve them. [/quote]

Not sure where to go with this one. I don’t deserve to live because I don’t view an under 20-week fetus the same as a human being? Sorry that is how you see it, I see it differently.[/quote]

A 20 week fetus is a human. You can “view” it however you want. Your veiw of something should change what human rights are. Again slave owners didn’t veiw blacks the same as a real white human being either. They were then justified in slavery?
[/quote]

You are an idiot , a fetus can be any mammal no wonder you don’t understand science , I suppose , it’s human if it is a kitten with out a brain Eye roll

pittbulll · October 1, 2015, 5:47pm

[quote]Blowharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

I don’t view a under 20-week fetus the same as a baby…

[/quote]

What is it? “A glob of goo?”[/quote]

Re: gob of goo

Goo = sticky substance
gob = small piece

countingbeans · October 1, 2015, 5:54pm

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

I don’t view a under 20-week fetus the same as a baby…

[/quote]

What is it? “A glob of goo?”[/quote]

This is a valid question.

If the person isn’t a person until 20 weeks, what is that person? (I mean, obviously other than expendable tissue available for research.)[/quote]

Its a person, just one with slightly less value. We all value human lives differently, your family vs strangers for example.[/quote]

Thank you for being honest, and not denying facts.

So, that prompts the question of: how should our government value people?

Should it discriminate on age, as it is here?
If so, what other ages make someone’s value so low, we celebrate their termination? 2? 17? 81? 90?
Color?
Religion?

How should a secular government determine who’s rights we protect and who’s we don’t?

I’ve seen the term viable thrown around. My daughter wasn’t viable at 8 months, she would have died without us. And seeing how she pretends to not know how to work the cabinet locks, would die without us at almost 4 too. Her brother, at 17, apparently would die without us as well. The viable argument is bunk too.

countingbeans · October 1, 2015, 5:49pm

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

You are an idiot , a fetus can be any mammal no wonder you don’t understand science , I suppose , it’s human if it is a kitten with out a brain Eye roll
[/quote]

Sources on human females giving birth to anything other than human babies?

The irony of you calling someone else an idiot is not lost on the board.

pittbulll · October 1, 2015, 5:51pm