Planned Parenthood

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
722

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
A human embryo never, ever changes species. A human embryo is always human. There might be stages, but the embryo is always a unique individual who has never existed before in the past, current or future. If you can prove me wrong then please provide a source with science and I will start arguing for abortions, if the source is backed with logic, science and reason. The case for LIFE stands up to those three criteria by the way.

[/quote]

The phrase “Don’t count your chickens before they hatch” might help explain your disagreement with each other.

723

[quote]Bismark wrote:
Why I had an abortion after 20 weeks

I don’t believe that this women is guilty of murder.[/quote]

She is not. What the world needs is more birth control - not less. I applaud the woman for making a logical choice of - can I support the child throughout its life or not. If yes - off you go; if no - end.

The next Industrial age will bring robotics into many job roles, which is only 10-15 years away. The days of needing a “China” are over - so we do not need such a birth rate as current. This video is quite good for outlining the future; Fireside chat with Google co-founders, Larry Page and Sergey Brin with Vinod Khosla - YouTube . Considering they own near on every robotic company worth talking about, they bear listening too.

The logic should be simple for families / women / men. Having a child for religion says so is idiotic - having a child you cannot support is idiotic. If you cannot support the potential child - do not have it.

Something to consider:
In November 2013 the U.S. Census Bureau said more than 16% of the population lived in poverty. up from 14.3% (approximately 43.6 million) in 2009 and to its highest level since 1993. In 2008, 13.2% (39.8 million) Americans lived in poverty.

724

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Nice to see you Cortez.

Aragorn, this may make you feel a little bit better. There’s a lot of good out there.

I got to see a miracle this weekend.

A little girl I evaluated was born with a very large cyst in her brain. This cyst was visible on ultrasound before birth, and if you can picture, it took up about 1/3 of her brain area. It’s inoperable. It looked like her occipital lobe was almost completely obliterated, along with some of the surrounding structures.

So, her parents knew when she was still in the womb that this baby was very likely going to have some profound challenges. We expected blindness at the least, and very likely profound physical and mental disability. Of course, we all wondered if she would survive and if she’d ever walk or talk.

I evaluated her at about 15 months, and she could see! She was doing quite well, but wasn’t yet walking or talking. It was one of those, “we’ll have to wait and see” situations, which is really a hard place for a parent to be. Shortly afterward, the family moved to another state.

Flash forward. I got to see her again last weekend. She’s now about 4 years old. She not only has good vision, but she’s running around and talking much like any child her age. As I walked up, she said, “Shhh! (holding her index finger to her lips) Be quiet! The baby is sleeping.” I’m still just completely in awe. It will go down as one of the most beautiful moments in my life.

The human brain is an incredibly plastic and adaptable thing. I will never think about this without feeling immense gratitude that I got to meet that amazing little person and her lovely parents. And I guess now I can be grateful that that woman from Planned Parenthood never got her hands on her.

That’s all I’m going to say about that.
[/quote]

What does Planned Parenthood have to do with the parents choice? It’s a good story; but the final choice was always going to be the parents. That is the power of human choice - no one should interfere; they should offer unbiased options.

Pity that seems to be incapable of being done on either side.

(I’m neither for nor against PP, nor do I much care. I care about human choice & emotional people tend to ruin the ability for humans to do so)

726

[quote] pusharder;
Utterly profound. You should post more often. We need some really deep thinkers here. [/quote]
Leaving aside the obvious sarcasm. Who is anyone to tell anyone else how to live their lives. PP is merely an avenue people can go down if they wish - no more, no less.

For such an aficionado of performing the act of potentially creating children; your stated opinion within the thread is odd. I wonder do you also advocate the non-usage of birth control & condoms; as they both also prevent a human being brought into being. I hazard a guess that you do not; nor does anyone else shouting from the rooftops about PP being so vile & disgusting for offering choice.

727

[quote]Voluminous wrote:
Who is anyone to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
[/quote]

So do you agree everyone currently in prison should be released? As they were just living their lives as they chose.

728

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Voluminous wrote:
Who is anyone to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
[/quote]

So do you agree everyone currently in prison should be released? As they were just living their lives as they chose.[/quote]

No, as that misses the point of how they came to be there.

The rule of law was created by the people for the people. Any abuse of the rule of law is handled by people of the courts; charged by society to be the guardians of the land. Though that sentiment is dying, as courts become politicised and deviate from societal wishes; which is a great shame.

The key here is the difference between imposing your will on someone outside rule of law; and societal agreements imposing rule of law on someone. One is not agreed to by society and is therefore unwanted; one is agreed to by society & all agree to be bound by them.

729

*And at this time according to the rule of law in the USA from “Roe vs Wade” the right to privacy under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman’s decision to have an abortion.

The right must be balanced against the state’s two legitimate interests in regulating abortions: protecting women’s health and protecting the potentiality of human life. Arguing that these state interests became stronger over the course of a pregnancy, the Court resolved this (timeframe seems to be uncertain - outside mothers womb)

Also released under strict scrutiny, to which it must satisfy three tests:

It must be justified by a compelling governmental interest. While the Courts have never brightly defined how to determine if an interest is compelling, the concept generally refers to something necessary or crucial, as opposed to something merely preferred. Examples include national security, preserving the lives of multiple individuals, and not violating explicit constitutional protections.
The law or policy must be narrowly tailored to achieve that goal or interest. If the government action encompasses too much (overbroad) or fails to address essential aspects of the compelling interest, then the rule is not considered narrowly tailored.
The law or policy must be the least restrictive means for achieving that interest. That is, there cannot be a less restrictive way to effectively achieve the compelling government interest. The test will be met even if there is another method that is equally the least restrictive. Some legal scholars consider this “least restrictive means” requirement part of being narrowly tailored, though the Court generally evaluates it separately.

/////
So if the right to abortion is legal as deemed by the guardians of the rule of law to which you belong; why then is there such issue with Planned Parenthood?

I like the 3 terms though - this has been good reading.

733

[quote]Voluminous wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Voluminous wrote:
Who is anyone to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
[/quote]

So do you agree everyone currently in prison should be released? As they were just living their lives as they chose.[/quote]

No, as that misses the point of how they came to be there.

The rule of law was created by the people for the people. Any abuse of the rule of law is handled by people of the courts; charged by society to be the guardians of the land. Though that sentiment is dying, as courts become politicised and deviate from societal wishes; which is a great shame.

The key here is the difference between imposing your will on someone outside rule of law; and societal agreements imposing rule of law on someone. One is not agreed to by society and is therefore unwanted; one is agreed to by society & all agree to be bound by them.

[/quote]

What is outside the rule of law here? The whole point of the debate is to include the unborn in the law. There’s no reason stuff like this can’t be debated, and if it did become law your point is invalid.

734

[quote]Voluminous wrote:

Something to consider:
In November 2013 the U.S. Census Bureau said more than 16% of the population lived in poverty. up from 14.3% (approximately 43.6 million) in 2009 and to its highest level since 1993. In 2008, 13.2% (39.8 million) Americans lived in poverty.
[/quote]

So… We should go around an execute poor people? Or just poor babies?

I’m confused how the fuck a grown individual could possibly think that being dead > than being poor in America. Holy fucking shit. Americans are the 1% of the 1% of human history and there hasn’t been a population richer than us to grace this planet, the poor among us included.

Get the fuck out of here with this lazy ass, thoughtless nonsensical emotional rhetoric.

[quote]Voluminous wrote:
I care about human choice )[/quote]

No you don’t. You’re okay with abortion, therefore you can’t, by definition care about human choice. As abortion murders a human, that murdered human, get this, has no choice. You only care about the “choices” of the humans YOU think should have a choice. You obviously don’t think all humans should have a choice because the murdered babies during abortions, which you are okay with, don’t even have a chance to have a choice.

You’ve straight convinced yourself you’re enlightened, when in reality your opinion is total horseshit and can’t pass the most simple of logical tests.

There’s more of your nonsense, don’t worry…

[quote]Voluminous wrote:
Who is anyone to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
[/quote]

Because killing someone through abortion isn’t telling them how to live their lives? lmao.

Good lord. Is this another musashi92 account? Because it’s just as shitty logically as all his/her accounts.

I’m not even going to bother to address your “it’s the law” fallacy. Push already has.

735

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

I’m confused how the fuck a grown individual could possibly think that being dead > than being poor in America. Holy fucking shit. Americans are the 1% of the 1% of human history and there hasn’t been a population richer than us to grace this planet, the poor among us included.[/quote]

This doesn’t mean that the homeless Americans in the 21th century are in any actual manner better off than the homeless Americans of the 19th century, does it?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
No you don’t. You’re okay with abortion, therefore you can’t, by definition care about human choice. As abortion murders a human, that murdered human, get this, has no choice. You only care about the “choices” of the humans YOU think should have a choice. You obviously don’t think all humans should have a choice because the murdered babies during abortions, which you are okay with, don’t even have a chance to have a choice.
[/quote]

I really don’t want to do this argument again, but you’re probably the only anti-abortion guy on this board who I’m willing to talk to about this particular topic and I want to rehash things out in my head. So, here goes.

First off, what do you define as a human being?

736

[quote]Voluminous wrote:
I applaud the woman for making a logical choice of - can I support the child throughout its life or not. If yes - off you go; if no - end.
[/quote]

No, this is not the logical choice. It’s complete bullshit. Can we start killing off those on welfare Voluminous? You know, folks that live off of others throughout their entire lives. Of course not.

737

[quote]Voluminous wrote:

[quote] pusharder;
Utterly profound. You should post more often. We need some really deep thinkers here. [/quote]
Leaving aside the obvious sarcasm. Who is anyone to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
[/quote]

How is killing a person not telling, “anyone else how to live their lives”?

738

Fuck this thread pisses me off so much.

739

[quote]magick wrote:

This doesn’t mean that the homeless Americans in the 21th century are in any actual manner better off than the homeless Americans of the 19th century, does it?[/quote]

Sure they are. There are infinitely more services and opportunities than even 50 years ago, let alone 100.

Better off doesn’t automatically equal doing good, but it sure is shit is a lot better to be alive today than 50/100/200 years ago as far as being poor in America is concerned. Shit rich too.

[quote]

First off, what do you define as a human being?[/quote]

I mean, I’m pretty sure you know where I’m going to go with this.

If we want to play moral relativism, which abortion is, anything prior to a heartbeat… I’ll lay off and not bitch about. That is the compromise with evil I’ll make, and I’ll deal with my issues with any higher power that relates to my position on that matter.

740

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Fuck this thread pisses me off so much. [/quote]

That is the problem with the CJS , lack of rational