Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
I’m no expert on the subject…but this?
[quote]The liner, carrying 656 international passengers and 399 crew members, was sailing through the Gulf of Aden on Sunday when it encountered six bandits in two speedboats, said Noel Choong who heads the International Maritime Bureau’s piracy reporting center in Malaysia.
The pirates fired at the passenger liner but the larger boat was faster than the pirates’ vessels, Choong said.[/quote]
How did a cruise ship outrun speed boats? Aren’t speed boats generally…you know…speedy?
[quote]duece wrote:
Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_af/piracy
[/quote]
Call it Imperial overstretch.
As our economy turns down and the rest of the world catches up to us economically, our ability to advance offensive military power around the globe will diminish.
Pirates, like the Vikings of old, see this and will soon begin multiplying in much greater numbers. The world will become more and more chaotic, and capital will retreat more and more to the developed world. The 3rd world will sink into starvation and robber-gangs. The developed world will become much more militaristic to control disaffected populations both here and on the limited areas left to it.
The world will soon turn into hell.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
duece wrote:
Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_af/piracy
Call it Imperial overstretch.
As our economy turns down and the rest of the world catches up to us economically, our ability to advance offensive military power around the globe will diminish.
Pirates, like the Vikings of old, see this and will soon begin multiplying in much greater numbers. The world will become more and more chaotic, and capital will retreat more and more to the developed world.
The 3rd world will sink into starvation and robber-gangs. The developed world will become much more militaristic to control disaffected populations both here and on the limited areas left to it.
The world will soon turn into hell.
[/quote]
that actually makes sense, and as you said, has plenty of historical precedent.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
I’m no expert on the subject…but this?
The liner, carrying 656 international passengers and 399 crew members, was sailing through the Gulf of Aden on Sunday when it encountered six bandits in two speedboats, said Noel Choong who heads the International Maritime Bureau’s piracy reporting center in Malaysia.
The pirates fired at the passenger liner but the larger boat was faster than the pirates’ vessels, Choong said.
How did a cruise ship outrun speed boats? Aren’t speed boats generally…you know…speedy?[/quote]
Not necessarily. They aren’t fiberglass racers or “cigarette type” boats like you see in the US. The pics I saw were open top wooden fishing boats with outboards.
In open seas an open top wooden boat like that may be able to make 15-20 knots and it will be rough going for them. A modern cruise ship can do 20-25knots and maybe more for short bursts. The deck level is also high above the water line. Probably about 75 feet or more. Consider the cruise ship weighs in at about 30,000 tons and the speedboat less then 1 ton, it would be like a mouse taking down an elephant.
Unless the elephant voluntarily gives in, or succumbs to fear, the mouse doesn’t have much of a chance. The light weapons carried by the speedboats wouldn’t do much damage either. Unprotected personnel on deck are at risk or a lucky shot from an RPG may cause a fire but as to sinking the vessel…it’s not likely.
Now putting a couple of .50cal. M-2 Brownings on the deck of the cruise ship ,and some sailors with a little training ,would certainly make these pirates think twice about approaching the ships. Hell I could teach someone to hit a target with an M-2 in about 2 hours. Tracer every fifth round would make the aiming easy and set the pirate boats on fire.
[quote]hedo wrote:
hungry4more wrote:
Now putting a couple of .50cal. M-2 Brownings on the deck of the cruise ship ,and some sailors with a little training ,would certainly make these pirates think twice about approaching the ships. Hell I could teach someone to hit a target with an M-2 in about 2 hours. Tracer every fifth round would make the aiming easy and set the pirate boats on fire.
[/quote]
Good point. This is what I don’t understand about all this. These pirates are in small boats, not particularly well armed, and are cruising up to very large ships and boarding them. Why haven’t these oil tankers equipped themselves with some large caliber machine guns and some well paid and well trained guards? It doesn’t seem like it would be all that hard to thwart an attack. Am I missing something? These aren’t old school pirates cruising around in what amounts to a battleship…
[quote]hedo wrote:
hungry4more wrote:
I’m no expert on the subject…but this?
The liner, carrying 656 international passengers and 399 crew members, was sailing through the Gulf of Aden on Sunday when it encountered six bandits in two speedboats, said Noel Choong who heads the International Maritime Bureau’s piracy reporting center in Malaysia.
The pirates fired at the passenger liner but the larger boat was faster than the pirates’ vessels, Choong said.
How did a cruise ship outrun speed boats? Aren’t speed boats generally…you know…speedy?
Not necessarily. They aren’t fiberglass racers or “cigarette type” boats like you see in the US. The pics I saw were open top wooden fishing boats with outboards.
In open seas an open top wooden boat like that may be able to make 15-20 knots and it will be rough going for them. A modern cruise ship can do 20-25knots and maybe more for short bursts. The deck level is also high above the water line. Probably about 75 feet or more.
Consider the cruise ship weighs in at about 30,000 tons and the speedboat less then 1 ton, it would be like a mouse taking down an elephant.
Unless the elephant voluntarily gives in, or succumbs to fear, the mouse doesn’t have much of a chance. The light weapons carried by the speedboats wouldn’t do much damage either. Unprotected personnel on deck are at risk or a lucky shot from an RPG may cause a fire but as to sinking the vessel…it’s not likely.
Now putting a couple of .50cal. M-2 Brownings on the deck of the cruise ship ,and some sailors with a little training ,would certainly make these pirates think twice about approaching the ships.
Hell I could teach someone to hit a target with an M-2 in about 2 hours. Tracer every fifth round would make the aiming easy and set the pirate boats on fire.
[/quote]
The War Nerd concurs:
[quote]hedo wrote:
and some sailors with a little training…
[/quote]
you mean marines?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
hedo wrote:
and some sailors with a little training…
you mean marines?[/quote]
No, uh, guys who know how to point, shoot, and reload. It’s not complicated.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
hedo wrote:
and some sailors with a little training…
you mean marines?
No, uh, guys who know how to point, shoot, and reload. It’s not complicated. [/quote]
It was a joke. Historically, people who use firearms and protect vessels at sea are called marines. Besides, it takes good training to learn to snipe at sea. It is not complicated but it isn’t exactly easy to shoot a 3-dimensionally moving target.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
hedo wrote:
and some sailors with a little training…
you mean marines?
No, uh, guys who know how to point, shoot, and reload. It’s not complicated.
It was a joke. Historically, people who use firearms and protect vessels at sea are called marines. Besides, it takes good training to learn to snipe at sea. It is not complicated but it isn’t exactly easy to shoot a 3-dimensionally moving target.[/quote]
Even I could hit a boat.
[quote]duece wrote:
Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_af/piracy[/quote]
Let the countries around Somalia deal with it…Why do we have to do everything?
[quote]pat wrote:
Even I could hit a boat.[/quote]
Unless it is an inflatable raft it won’t matter. Besides, you don’t want the pirate vessel to get that close just in case it is rigged with explosives. Taking out the boat captain from far away is a better option.
Can you hit a body mass target from 100 yards in less than optimal sea conditions?
[quote]pat wrote:
duece wrote:
Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_af/piracy
Let the countries around Somalia deal with it…Why do we have to do everything?[/quote]
Because it was US citizens sailing under the US flag.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
hedo wrote:
hungry4more wrote:
I’m no expert on the subject…but this?
The liner, carrying 656 international passengers and 399 crew members, was sailing through the Gulf of Aden on Sunday when it encountered six bandits in two speedboats, said Noel Choong who heads the International Maritime Bureau’s piracy reporting center in Malaysia.
The pirates fired at the passenger liner but the larger boat was faster than the pirates’ vessels, Choong said.
How did a cruise ship outrun speed boats? Aren’t speed boats generally…you know…speedy?
Not necessarily. They aren’t fiberglass racers or “cigarette type” boats like you see in the US. The pics I saw were open top wooden fishing boats with outboards.
In open seas an open top wooden boat like that may be able to make 15-20 knots and it will be rough going for them. A modern cruise ship can do 20-25knots and maybe more for short bursts. The deck level is also high above the water line. Probably about 75 feet or more.
Consider the cruise ship weighs in at about 30,000 tons and the speedboat less then 1 ton, it would be like a mouse taking down an elephant.
Unless the elephant voluntarily gives in, or succumbs to fear, the mouse doesn’t have much of a chance. The light weapons carried by the speedboats wouldn’t do much damage either. Unprotected personnel on deck are at risk or a lucky shot from an RPG may cause a fire but as to sinking the vessel…it’s not likely.
Now putting a couple of .50cal. M-2 Brownings on the deck of the cruise ship ,and some sailors with a little training ,would certainly make these pirates think twice about approaching the ships.
Hell I could teach someone to hit a target with an M-2 in about 2 hours. Tracer every fifth round would make the aiming easy and set the pirate boats on fire.
The War Nerd concurs:
It wouldn’t be hard to do. Most commercial seaman are mechanically inclined and comfortable around machinery. An M-2 is not a hard machine to operate and maintain.
Put 4 on each ship. Bow, stern, port and starboard. That way you can get two guns on a target in most cases and the pirates can’t easily supress fire from the guns. Put a shield for the gunner on the mount and you are all set. Walk the tracers in to the speedboat and you got dead pirates. A big .50 firing at you might even drive them off.
Shotguns or some AK’s wouldn’t hurt either if they got close to the ship and under the line of fire for the heavy guns.
Oh well…sounds like a good idea from my desk at the office. Hope they try something.
[quote]duece wrote:
pat wrote:
duece wrote:
Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_af/piracy
Let the countries around Somalia deal with it…Why do we have to do everything?
Because it was US citizens sailing under the US flag.[/quote]
The US government doesn’t have to police every part of the world where its citizens decide to travel to. If you travel, you should be aware of the potential dangers.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Christine wrote:
duece wrote:
pat wrote:
duece wrote:
Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_af/piracy
Let the countries around Somalia deal with it…Why do we have to do everything?
Because it was US citizens sailing under the US flag.
The US government doesn’t have to police every part of the world where its citizens decide to travel to. If you travel, you should be aware of the potential dangers.
Maybe. Maybe not. However, there is plenty of historical precedent to support the U.S. government for doing so, i.e., the Tripolitan Wars and the War of 1812.
Mitzi, Mitzi, Mitzi, why O why must I constantly have to school your giddy ass?
[/quote]
Past performance does not guarantee future results.
See, Push, I thought you were a constitution guy.
Where exactly is it written that the US government is compelled to police every part of the globe which it’s citizens hanker to venture?
[quote]duece wrote:
pat wrote:
duece wrote:
Why are we tolerating piracy on the high seas now? Why are those vessels not sitting on the ocean floor? Have we (US, UK and developed countries) become that big of apathetic pussies? Can anyone explain this to me?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_af/piracy
Let the countries around Somalia deal with it…Why do we have to do everything?
Because it was US citizens sailing under the US flag.[/quote]
I can just about guarantee it wasn’t sailing under the US flag.