PhilaSCS Nandrolone Fall 2023

Pharma TRT
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@belekas I appreciate that, thanks!

I think part of why alternative options appeal to me is that I didnt start from a normative start point. For all the obsession over what is and isnt TRT, what’s “therapeutic” or “replacement” or “steroidz” most of our world’s fellow constituents came to aas because of ambition or because of perceived QoL “symptoms” out of whack with their expectations of lifestyle or aging. I came here post-ambition and after years of TRT because of severe lifelong issues secondary to a massive brain injury near the onset of puberty. Having barely any natural test most of my life but NOT having many of the top symptoms people claim for going on TRT (but many different symptoms nonetheless) has also taught me a lot. Yknow how two people on the internet can look completely different? Replace “melanin expression” with “hormone metabolism, hormone expression, hptaxyz axes, etc…” but nandrolone is supposed to just do nandrolone things. For me, your worst experience on nandrolone might be what I’m shooting for. I can tell you for me, my best experience on testosterone-only sounds like most reports of a bad tren bender but with bloat and deca dick on top. Right now, if n=1 was a viable strategy at ncbi, I’d write a paper about how superior nandrolone is to testosterone as “TRT.” If you started off with tons of anxiety, nandrolone’s flattening is a relief. If your sexual dysfunction was impulse-related (see: all of reddit) nandrolone’s “lower sex drive” helps you not care about that impulse, which, in me, seems to be resensitizing me to less frequent sexual behavior of a kind I actually feel I respect more. I truly believe men’s evaluation of testosterone therapy is 10 times more influenced by our cultural expectations of what “testosterone” means to masculinity than by what our science knows testosterone does. I mean, how many men are seeking TRT for “loss of vigor” of some type but equate “being a man” with driving a camaro 100mph off a cliff while shooting a dinosaur with a rocket launcher and achieving (and maintaining) a solid erection. Life isn’t a constant state of the most fantastical and intense momentary power trips. Meanwhile @Robroy has turned himself into a sexual demon with fucking birth control. Art is a lie. Nothing is real. Nandrolone paid me to write this.

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:laughing: :laughing: Nice.

FWIW, there are plenty of guys who feel great with Nandrolone and 19-nors. Others, like myself, can’t handle it even in small doses. Mental sides, ED etc. Is it TRT/HRT… absolutely not. But semantics aside, if its a ‘therapy’ that works for you than who cares?

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Yeah dude. My tribe prefers purple berries and calls them “dinner.” Pink berry tribe over there researching arimidex sayin FUCK purple berry tribe and we just grapin the fuck out waitin for labs I guess.

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When are u planning on reintroducing a small amount of test?
And what will your protocol look like then?
I mean how many mg of test and deca per week?

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I would guess I’ll ride this out for twelve weeks, six plus the acclimation.

I am thinking of adding testosterone back in 28mg a week in daily shots of 4mg. Then lab my estrogen. Increase to 56mg if not in range. Increase to 84mg if not in range, and, when i get it in range, sit there for six weeks and annoy you guys again.

In a similar way I may lower nandrolone dose gradually until effects prolonging orgasm become lessened, or add oxandrolone at 6-12mg/day.

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You are not annoying anyone sir! I appreciate you are doing this experiment!
I am really really curious what the effects are going to be when u reintroduce the low dose test!
But for now what was your current weekly deca dose?

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200mg/wk, ed subq

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Im interested too. However I am starting to lose as much interest in finding the best substitute to feel “normal” because I really never did, and might just roll with a cranked up combination setup for a while. I think I’m inching toward something like:

100Tcyp/150Ndec/80oxandrolone

appx: (14mg/21mg/11mg) daily

I dont think Im someone whos going to find a simple monotherapy that makes him normative and gives him experiences he never had. I think Im someone whose going to use coffee to wake up, hormones for physicality, pt-141 for libido times, cialis for mission-impossible ops, and Im definitely someone who after a while being pretty conservative and a lifetime under the range wants to do a few years a bit more enhanced.

Example: i am in the best shape of my life (without training and at a lower aas load than ive been) and love most things about nandrolone so far, but its starting to become apparent the increase in synovial volume that is blessing my ankles and knees is also contributing to the loss of space in my wrists and the emergence of carpal tunnel. If that’s at all dose dependent for me, I’m already over my longterm weekly max for the nandy. Sail on…

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Dang was halfway thru reading this one lol

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I’ve been doing 200mg/wk of NPP without Testosterone for seven weeks now. I found this blog last night looking for some solutions to some issues I’ve found. I really appreciate the way you articulate your experience.

I quoted your description of “Deca libido” because I think you’ve done a really good job of capturing it. It feels like another version of sex and libido altogether from the status quo. You talk about not getting “hits” of sexual fire, and that the whole experience is less prone to anxiety. I feel the same, the rise of sexual charge is slower and when it is there it is more trustworthy, less likely to collapse with a distraction or misstep. There is some flatness where I don’t feel some big Fire for my partner but when we get going it is really good.

Also, and I hope this isn’t TMI, when I’m alone I can just hang out with my junk for ever without ejaculation at total ease. I have been coming home from work and edging for hours. I never used to do that. That leads me to another point:

I noted in your blog a tendency to go pleasure seeking or impulse seeking. This was an eye opener. Apart from the edging, I have been eating way more sugar than I ever did. Thank you for the insight. I may be gaining a little weight, and maybe not eating junk for entertainment will help.

I also share your depiction of feeing flatter and less reactive in general. I could never find the sweet spot with Testosterone and Estrogen. I was always high or low and filled with anxiety. I won’t go into it, but I have tried all the protocols. My emotions are way easier to manage without Testosterone and my relationships with work and my partner are improving. I have been coming home and wasting the evenings laying in bed, but I feel so level and good that I can’t see why I would want to make a big change.

The main way our experiences diverge is Estrogen. Deca only protocols have the fatal flaw of not providing enough E. Without significant aromatization, I wonder what your E levels look like. You don’t sound low E, but unless you are supplementing somehow, I don’t see how you couldn’t be. I saw the guy from platesnotdates using an Estrogen gel and that is what I have been doing. I like it for the precision I can dial in my E levels. You seem really on top of things so I won’t presume, and you don’t seem to have my classic low E symptoms, but I was wondering how you are approaching that and if your carpal tunnel might be related.

My main endeavors/investigations in my own NPP/Estrogel protocol journey are:

  1. Would a tiny bit of T and DHT from endogenously produced T (from HCG) add to or subtract from the success I feel? I wonder about living a life without any significant amounts of T or DHT and if this flatness might lessen.
  2. How can I improve my sleep? I sleep super shallowly most nights after 2am.
  3. Will this flatness of mood be a long term detriment in that it may be diminishing motivation?

Thank you for your journal. It sounds like you might be about to start adding in other things to the mix. I wish you success in whatever but I am very grateful for your insight here.

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Sorry bro, I failed at using the “quote” feature. I think I got it fixed.

I saw you mentioning “less drive to get out there in general.” I feel that.

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Your experience seems exactly like mine. My feelings about it currently are still similar. In many ways people (I) want to change, but their personalities are built on their histories, so changing may feel improved but not like “themselves.”

In a few weeks my whole affect changed as youre describing and it was absolutely something I was looking for. But Im not used to this “normal.” So where will my drive to be motivated come from now? I built my mental understanding of motivation while on natural chaos and then on 7 yrs TRT. Maybe its as simple as coffee, or vyvanse, concerta, adderall (done all 3) but it feels like the reason I need to get off my ass is different now, even when I do jump to it. Im never late, but going to work used to happen in a frenzied flash because I was so scared about being late I would run out of the house. Im still not late, but its because ive been thinking about work for a while and am already prepared when I decide to leave the house.

Similarly, I rarely masturbate now unless Im really anxious. Which is not different behavior, but it used to be at all anxious. So the same behavior now happens only when I feel worse, and that behavior becomes less desirable as its associated with a worse state. I love these reshuffles because I feel I can learn from them long-term. I think if you are open to adopting behavioral changes enabled by different hormones, long-term benefits can be captured apart from long-term use.

Libido for me behaves like people describe referred nerve pain. Im sure now it’s there, but I am seeing how many different ways it can show up if you’re wired differently and with standard test-only I seem to exhibit sex and drive filtered through anxiety.

“Suddenly” on nandrolone, much of that anxiety filter is gone, but I am left feeling around in the vacuum for new benchmarks and touchstones because that anxiety is powerful and Id been strapped to it, much less harnessing it…

Thank you very much for posting. Yes, my current thoughts are that nandrolone’s presence may be important for me long term, perhaps not its monopoly or dominance.

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That’s it. Anxiety had been a touchstone and now without it there is this open question about where motivation will come from. I still have appropriate amounts of apprehension when it is warranted, but I’m not holding my breath all the time. I look at some big projects in my life and they are no less important logically, but I feel less frantic about them. That frantic feeling kept me going. Perhaps coffee is the frantic I need.

You talk about seeking these fundamental changes as a person. This Deca based protocol feels like a different version of the operating system. A couple of things I struggled with my whole adulthood have shifted dramatically and new problems have arrived which I don’t have experience with. I’m excited and this interaction has made me more so.

My relationships are better. Much better. Both at work and in romance.

It is funny you say that about getting to work on time. I have never been late either, but like you, I’ve been showing up more prepared, and more willingly than before. I show up and face my day with more ease. I accept my job with its imperfections more easily.

Prior to this protocol my romantic relationships were very much colored by anxiety. Now things feel calmer. I accept the relationship “as is” more easily. There is a relationship, it is good, and that’s fine enough for now. I am more loving but also less attached.

This conversation has helped distill these things for me. I’m so used to restlessly messing with my TRT and only having flashes of “good” or “okay” and moments of “great.” I hadn’t really seen how fundamental this new stage is. I am very happy to be playing in a new playground after 5 years of struggling with TRT.

This conversation reminds me of This episode of This American Life from a long long time ago. One of the stories in the episode there is this guy who, through a chemical accident, lost all his T one day. He basically reached enlightenment, lol. He dropped all that anxiety. Worth a listen.

The episode also has a story of this FTM person early in transition from female to male starting injections of Testosterone. They discover that testosterone made sexuality immediate and pornographic. He (they?) were shocked to become flooded and feeling like the “sex monkey” he had always characterized as low/base form male sexuality. I think my own libido is somehow very different than my testosterone status quo. Way less abrupt and pornographic. Way more mood based and steady.

I’ll be watching your progress here. I’m likely to mess with HCG some in the next few months. and maybe lower my Deca dose for a bit to see what happens. I’m also gonna consider allowing the flatness to be a gift rather than a problem.

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Appreciate this more than you know man. Ill definitely listen to that cast and let you know what I think.

I wonder if Id like NPP better than deca as a base. Im concerned once I mix test back in I’ll get the deca dick, as almost all deca dick stories are test + deca derived; but so are most nandrolone stories period. Will have to become a bit more literate on how deca will welcome the estrogen back.

I liked anavar but its extremely expensive. If going thru a private lab I’m considering adding masteron. My only qualm with nandrolone is anorgasmia. Like most things masculinity, “going hard all night” just isn’t what you think it is except in a very few unrealistic situations. 99% of the time both parties want 20-minutes of responsiveness, not three hours of digging and jackhammering and starting over…

Happy thanksgiving!

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Will have bloodwork in two weeks for final nandrolone base assessment.

TT
FT
DHT
E2 sensitive
SHBG
Prolactin
Progesterone

I expect high prolactin as I’m living that dream in the bedroom. If that’s the case, have pramipexole on hand, but am leaning toward dropping the nandrolone to 100mg/ week. Prami is another frequent doser and caber is pretty harsh to think of beyond short term. I’m also anticipating testosterone to aromatize sloppy for me when I add it back in to some nandrolone-clogged estrogen pipes. If so, minor adjustments with repeated labs might become too expensive. Might just roll with Masteron prop overtop of the lower deca floor, keep it simple with two compounds and keep giving things time. Thats the nandrolone talking. The minute I pin test I’m buying 6 more compounds, swallowing the bar and driving through my front door.

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@mrh1369 finished the TAL episode! Lots of thoughts:

*The guy who went without testosterone for four months was fascinating. His takes are pretty similar to ours in many ways, but we also have an androgen doing testosterone-adjacent devil’s work in us, so I’d like to separate “no t” effects from “nandrolone” effects. I think nandrolone still provides us some drive, desire, interest, and cognitive function. Honestly best of both worlds. I absolutely feel myself appreciating interesting women and just ignoring uninteresting ones rather than finding a sexual validator in all comers. (Mixing with part 2)

*The trans-man was also interesting, but I think the show should have taken heavier into account the entire history of psychosocial thought, personality-building, and perception the guest built as a woman and how that affects his narration despite being on testosterone now. Similarly, much of what was attributed to testosterone in the show is action of estrogens and metabolites. Like yeah dude, your test was 2500ngdl, what do you think your e2 was? I started with balls and had problems with e2 in and below range. It was almost enough to scream “congratulations, youve completely overshot conceptual maleness and are now representing maleness by reporting on your roid cycle sides.” Dude is on a permanent period now, as I call myself on T.

*A “canadian jewish gay man from new york city” won their testosterone challenge by 2x (!) anyone else. I bounce these guys regularly, did anyone ask him about his protocol? Why for all the staff’s experience and intellect did they not do some research into how the chemicals actually work if they were genuinely worried about their feelings once knowing their test results? Todd won’t care about his lower score if he learns he’s more androgen sensitive anyway and if Julie is worried about seeming bossy because of high testosterone, she’d be relieved to learn that worrying is a stereotypical low-T trait…

So mixed bag for me but the part you wanted me to listen to was fucking phenomenal.

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The team that made the show clearly wasn’t nuts deep into the subject like most TRT guys on the forums are. I haven’t listened to that episode again since I started TRT 5 years ago, but the two extremes depicted always had me thinking. Now with your insight I can see what you’re saying. Especially with the FTM dude who was experiencing estrogen and testosterone overload. MORE isn’t always BETTER. Lord that’s a lesson I’ve had to learn over and over.

I also really appreciate you naming the “permanent period” on TRT. I never reliably felt the emotional calm I am feeling now while on TRT. At the worst times, I’ve ended up in some hormonal places on TRT that gave me a lot of compassion for women and their cycles. “Why do I feel like a lunatic?” “Why does this typically annoying situation make me want to burn the house down today?” Oh yeah… maybe I am I’m super effen high estrogen. Maybe my ratios are way off.

I’m glad you checked that radio story out. I think it is from like 2003. So we’ve come a long way in 20 years.

You’re doing 200mg/wk still? I am having such huge problems with my sleep I’m considering trying different NPP dosages. I’ve been doing 200mg/wk of NPP broken up to ED injections.

I didn’t see your most recent update till now. Can’t wait to hear the results of your labs. We’re out here in no-man’s land and while everyone’s body is different, I’ll be curious how your labs come out. You aren’t doing anything but Nandrolone?

You said you’re “living the high prolactin dream in the bedroom,” do you mean anorgasmia? I just finished a weekend of endless jackhammering struggling to get off. Makes me think my prolactin might be going up. I had some outstanding experiences in bed in the first three-four weeks but that’s getting less reliable.

Like you, this no-T state has got me very very comfortable just witnessing without trying to jack with my compounds and levels.

Keep up the excellent updates!.

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For this reason, I’m considering not injecting T, but adding very small amounts of HCG and working the T and DHT back in very very slowly. I just wish I could see a goddamn graph of all my levels every day. I know you know.

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