Philadelphia Open Carry

Off Topic
101

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
^check my edit. that just seems like bad news bears to me. the edit eplains why. personally i dont give a fuck, but its in your best interest not to, even if youre allowed to. a FF with a gun, youll be laughed out of court if you use, seemingly good shot or not. were not cops let them do their job and well do ours. not trying to sound snide just couldnt think of another way to explain that. [/quote]

What if you are the only one to respond to an accedent call and you get there and some dude is beating the crap out of a woman who cut him off?

I’m not talking about enforcing the law, I’m only talking about protection. And I don’t know that I ever would, but I’d still like to have the permit.

Edit:
Just to be clear, this isn’t like a city where there are people around all the time and cops are a minute or 2 away.

There are a lot of dark country roads and a lot of farm land with sparse housing. And a lot of guys don’t get up for 3am calls unless it’s a fire. Hell, even then it can end up being just a couple of people.

Whats worse is that a lot of the time its some drunken red necks lighting hay bails on fire for fun.

There are a lot of situations where you can be essentially alone and in an unsafe situation.[/quote]

Get your cell phone out and record the incident. its not worth your family’s future to fight the court system. Just not worth it.

102

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
^check my edit. that just seems like bad news bears to me. the edit eplains why. personally i dont give a fuck, but its in your best interest not to, even if youre allowed to. a FF with a gun, youll be laughed out of court if you use, seemingly good shot or not. were not cops let them do their job and well do ours. not trying to sound snide just couldnt think of another way to explain that. [/quote]

What if you are the only one to respond to an accedent call and you get there and some dude is beating the crap out of a woman who cut him off?

I’m not talking about enforcing the law, I’m only talking about protection. And I don’t know that I ever would, but I’d still like to have the permit.

Edit:
Just to be clear, this isn’t like a city where there are people around all the time and cops are a minute or 2 away.

There are a lot of dark country roads and a lot of farm land with sparse housing. And a lot of guys don’t get up for 3am calls unless it’s a fire. Hell, even then it can end up being just a couple of people.

Whats worse is that a lot of the time its some drunken red necks lighting hay bails on fire for fun.

There are a lot of situations where you can be essentially alone and in an unsafe situation.[/quote]

Get your cell phone out and record the incident. its not worth your family’s future to fight the court system. Just not worth it.[/quote]

You and I may have different morals.

I’ve gotten in trouble because of a woman asking for help before, and even if it makes me an idiot, I’m sure I’d do it again.

103

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
^check my edit. that just seems like bad news bears to me. the edit eplains why. personally i dont give a fuck, but its in your best interest not to, even if youre allowed to. a FF with a gun, youll be laughed out of court if you use, seemingly good shot or not. were not cops let them do their job and well do ours. not trying to sound snide just couldnt think of another way to explain that. [/quote]

What if you are the only one to respond to an accedent call and you get there and some dude is beating the crap out of a woman who cut him off?

I’m not talking about enforcing the law, I’m only talking about protection. And I don’t know that I ever would, but I’d still like to have the permit.

Edit:
Just to be clear, this isn’t like a city where there are people around all the time and cops are a minute or 2 away.

There are a lot of dark country roads and a lot of farm land with sparse housing. And a lot of guys don’t get up for 3am calls unless it’s a fire. Hell, even then it can end up being just a couple of people.

Whats worse is that a lot of the time its some drunken red necks lighting hay bails on fire for fun.

There are a lot of situations where you can be essentially alone and in an unsafe situation.[/quote]

Get your cell phone out and record the incident. its not worth your family’s future to fight the court system. Just not worth it.[/quote]

You and I may have different morals.

I’ve gotten in trouble because of a woman asking for help before, and even if it makes me an idiot, I’m sure I’d do it again.[/quote]

Has nothing to do with my morals but everything to do with my values. I value my families life more than yours (don’t mean that personally). But if I shoot said guy, I now have to defend my freedom. Hopefully I don’t get taken into civil court and get sued by his family. I’m not saying I just sit there recording the incident but I’m not a cop. What do YOU do when he says “F” you and continues to kick her ass?

Do you shoot him? Was her life in danger or was she just getting her ass kicked? Did you feel your life was in danger if so, did you provoke the incident? More importantly - how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?

104

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
^check my edit. that just seems like bad news bears to me. the edit eplains why. personally i dont give a fuck, but its in your best interest not to, even if youre allowed to. a FF with a gun, youll be laughed out of court if you use, seemingly good shot or not. were not cops let them do their job and well do ours. not trying to sound snide just couldnt think of another way to explain that. [/quote]

What if you are the only one to respond to an accedent call and you get there and some dude is beating the crap out of a woman who cut him off?

I’m not talking about enforcing the law, I’m only talking about protection. And I don’t know that I ever would, but I’d still like to have the permit.

Edit:
Just to be clear, this isn’t like a city where there are people around all the time and cops are a minute or 2 away.

There are a lot of dark country roads and a lot of farm land with sparse housing. And a lot of guys don’t get up for 3am calls unless it’s a fire. Hell, even then it can end up being just a couple of people.

Whats worse is that a lot of the time its some drunken red necks lighting hay bails on fire for fun.

There are a lot of situations where you can be essentially alone and in an unsafe situation.[/quote]

Get your cell phone out and record the incident. its not worth your family’s future to fight the court system. Just not worth it.[/quote]

You and I may have different morals.

I’ve gotten in trouble because of a woman asking for help before, and even if it makes me an idiot, I’m sure I’d do it again.[/quote]

Has nothing to do with my morals but everything to do with my values. I value my families life more than yours (don’t mean that personally). But if I shoot said guy, I now have to defend my freedom. Hopefully I don’t get taken into civil court and get sued by his family. I’m not saying I just sit there recording the incident but I’m not a cop. What do YOU do when he says “F” you and continues to kick her ass?

Do you shoot him? Was her life in danger or was she just getting her ass kicked? Did you feel your life was in danger if so, did you provoke the incident? More importantly - how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?[/quote]

It is a long way from interfering to shooting someone.

And “how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?” means our morals are a little different.

105

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]Frizzle wrote:

3rd This guy is a complete idiot… Open carry can make you a target as well as the 1st victim. If i was a criminal I wouldn’t worry about holding a person up with an open gun id just shoot the guy dead first steal his gun. This guy gives the bad guy an edge in choosing a victim, sure he might pass over the guy but as i mentioned prior he could be the first victim. Concealing your weapon can give you an advantage.

[/quote]

You have no idea how a criminal mind works if you think thats what a criminal would do LOL. Seriously knowing a person has a firearm is a big deterrent in being robbed.[/quote]

OMG This made my day 1 billion internets you, holy shit god thanks for the laugh.

Please post your references. I do agree that generally, it may make you a less attractive target, but if you’re targeted, I believe the encounter may be more violent.

And how does a gun in your holster prevent you from being mugged at gunpoint? If you have a gun pointed on you already, are you really going to reach for your gun and get shot? Old West Style?

106

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]late2thegame wrote:
I thought this was a great perspective on this story:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=186321[/quote]

It’s nonsensical. They go on to argue that the police that went in without a warrant because they “thought” they smelled marijuana, only to find someone actually in there smoking marijuana? Fucking logic fail. Matters not that they didn’t find their suspect - they discovered someone else breaking the fucking law and had reasonable cause to go in. That they didn’t find their suspect does not obviate the fact that marijuana was being smoked inside and that the law was being violated.

I gotta get out of this thread. Anytime I of all people start defending LEO, something is really fucking amiss.

I swear some of you live in the woods or a cave when you’re defending some idiot challenging a cop in a City with some of the highest gun crime in the nation. As I said before, he’s quite lucky he didn’t end up dead - literally. And he’s extremely lucky he didn’t get his ass kicked. Is it right? No. Do I condone it? No. But it’s fucking reality in the big City and anyone that lives around here knows that simple fucking fact. I have no sympathy for this gaping asshole…because he THINKS he’s championing the rights of gun owners, when in fact he’s bringing attention to an issue the opposition would love to strip us of. [/quote]

Is it legal to kick in a door without a warrant based on the smell of mary-jane?[/quote]

I believe so. There is a crime being committed. Do you think the law says they knock while you’re breaking the law, and you can just hide under the bed, behind the cloak of your door? How about criminals just run home now, and quickly get behind their doors?

Are you acting as if they did a “no knock” raid.
Are you suggesting the person inside wasn’t smoking an illegal substance (they were)?

107

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
^check my edit. that just seems like bad news bears to me. the edit eplains why. personally i dont give a fuck, but its in your best interest not to, even if youre allowed to. a FF with a gun, youll be laughed out of court if you use, seemingly good shot or not. were not cops let them do their job and well do ours. not trying to sound snide just couldnt think of another way to explain that. [/quote]

What if you are the only one to respond to an accedent call and you get there and some dude is beating the crap out of a woman who cut him off?

I’m not talking about enforcing the law, I’m only talking about protection. And I don’t know that I ever would, but I’d still like to have the permit.

Edit:
Just to be clear, this isn’t like a city where there are people around all the time and cops are a minute or 2 away.

There are a lot of dark country roads and a lot of farm land with sparse housing. And a lot of guys don’t get up for 3am calls unless it’s a fire. Hell, even then it can end up being just a couple of people.

Whats worse is that a lot of the time its some drunken red necks lighting hay bails on fire for fun.

There are a lot of situations where you can be essentially alone and in an unsafe situation.[/quote]

Get your cell phone out and record the incident. its not worth your family’s future to fight the court system. Just not worth it.[/quote]

You and I may have different morals.

I’ve gotten in trouble because of a woman asking for help before, and even if it makes me an idiot, I’m sure I’d do it again.[/quote]

Has nothing to do with my morals but everything to do with my values. I value my families life more than yours (don’t mean that personally). But if I shoot said guy, I now have to defend my freedom. Hopefully I don’t get taken into civil court and get sued by his family. I’m not saying I just sit there recording the incident but I’m not a cop. What do YOU do when he says “F” you and continues to kick her ass?

Do you shoot him? Was her life in danger or was she just getting her ass kicked? Did you feel your life was in danger if so, did you provoke the incident? More importantly - how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?[/quote]

It is a long way from interfering to shooting someone.

And “how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?” means our morals are a little different.[/quote]

And “how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?” means our morals are a little different.-- Fair Enough!! I’m not saying I condone it but it seems unlikely (in my opinion) that a sane man is going to begin beating the crap out of a complete female stranger. I immediately think domestic issues. PM sent

108

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
^check my edit. that just seems like bad news bears to me. the edit eplains why. personally i dont give a fuck, but its in your best interest not to, even if youre allowed to. a FF with a gun, youll be laughed out of court if you use, seemingly good shot or not. were not cops let them do their job and well do ours. not trying to sound snide just couldnt think of another way to explain that. [/quote]

What if you are the only one to respond to an accedent call and you get there and some dude is beating the crap out of a woman who cut him off?

I’m not talking about enforcing the law, I’m only talking about protection. And I don’t know that I ever would, but I’d still like to have the permit.

Edit:
Just to be clear, this isn’t like a city where there are people around all the time and cops are a minute or 2 away.

There are a lot of dark country roads and a lot of farm land with sparse housing. And a lot of guys don’t get up for 3am calls unless it’s a fire. Hell, even then it can end up being just a couple of people.

Whats worse is that a lot of the time its some drunken red necks lighting hay bails on fire for fun.

There are a lot of situations where you can be essentially alone and in an unsafe situation.[/quote]

Get your cell phone out and record the incident. its not worth your family’s future to fight the court system. Just not worth it.[/quote]

You and I may have different morals.

I’ve gotten in trouble because of a woman asking for help before, and even if it makes me an idiot, I’m sure I’d do it again.[/quote]

Has nothing to do with my morals but everything to do with my values. I value my families life more than yours (don’t mean that personally). But if I shoot said guy, I now have to defend my freedom. Hopefully I don’t get taken into civil court and get sued by his family. I’m not saying I just sit there recording the incident but I’m not a cop. What do YOU do when he says “F” you and continues to kick her ass?

Do you shoot him? Was her life in danger or was she just getting her ass kicked? Did you feel your life was in danger if so, did you provoke the incident? More importantly - how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?[/quote]

It is a long way from interfering to shooting someone.

And “how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?” means our morals are a little different.[/quote]

And “how do you know she didn’t deserve the ass whooping?” means our morals are a little different.-- Fair Enough!! I’m not saying I condone it but it seems unlikely (in my opinion) that a sane man is going to begin beating the crap out of a complete female stranger. I immediately think domestic issues. PM sent[/quote]

Most probably. But have you ever actually had a woman in distress beg you for help?

109

This was clearly a clash of two assholes. The cop went a little overboard and the tool was being a complete dick for a bunch of reasons. Open carry is just dumb, I like having the option of letting a criminal know if I have a gun or not. Not complying with an obviously agitated police officer is also dumb. He was asked to get on his knees not spread his ass cheeks, let be reasonable.

DoubleDuce - invest in some pepper spray. Should you get to a call and someone is getting the shit beat out of them, it is a non lethal way to end the issue without having to make the decision of “do I shoot or not?”. I am not saying you shouldn’t carry, I am merely suggesting you carry some chemical agent as well.

110

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]late2thegame wrote:
I thought this was a great perspective on this story:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=186321[/quote]
…
…because he THINKS he’s championing the rights of gun owners, when in fact he’s bringing attention to an issue the opposition would love to strip us of. [/quote]

Well, actually in a way he IS championing the rights of gun owners.
If he stirs shit up - even if it is on the PD level - I bet the next time a cop from that PD sees someone walking down the street OC-ing, he’ll think twice before reacting the same way.[/quote]

Well, he educated local LEO - fair enough. But I’m sure he also stirred up the local government, which already wants to ban or restrict carry permits in the City, and I’m sure they are considering closing this “loophole” that allows open carry. \

FYI, the following is the Philadelphia “directive” that the dickhead was referring to. It expressly states that those that “open carry” should “AN OFFICER ENCOUNTERING A PERSON CARRYING A FIREARM
OPENLY IN PHILADELPHIA SHOULD FOR THE SAFTEY OF PUBLIC INVESTIGATE AS A POSSIBLE VUFA VIOLATION.”

Continuing…“A. SINCE A SEPARATE LICENSE IS REQUIRED IN PHILADELPHIA AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY OFFICER TO KNOW WHO DOES AND DOES NOT HAVE A VALID CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE, IT IS ENTIRELY REASONALBE FOR OFFICERS TO TEMPORARILY DETAIN AND INVESTIGATE ANY INDIVIDUAL CARRYING A
FIREARM EXPOSED TO DETERMINE IF THE PERSON IS OPERATING WITH THE LAW.”

GENERAL: 1272 09/22/10 12:53:20

TO : ALL COMMANDING OFFICERS / DEPARTMENT HEADS
SUBJECT : FIREARM OPEN CARRY LAW IN PHILADELPHIA

  1. DIRECTIVE 137, ENTITLED �¢??FIREARMS�¢?? IS BEING UPDATED
    CONCERNING THE PENNSYLVANIA OPEN CARRY LAWS
    REGARDING THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA. THIS TELETYPE
    REFLECTS THE NEW POLICY AS IT WILL APPEAR IN THE
    DIRECTIVE.

  2. ALL OFFICERS SHOULD BE AWARE THAT PENNSYLVANIA IS
    CONSIDERED AN �¢??OPEN CARRY STATE�¢?? WITH THE EXCEPTION OF
    PHILADELPHIA. IT IS IMPORTANT TO DEFINE A FEW TERMS USED,
    WHICH ARE AS FOLLOWS:

�¢??OPEN CARRY�¢?? REFERS TO THE ACT OF OPENLY AND VISIBLY
CARRYING A FIREARM ON ONE�¢??S PERSON.

�¢??OPEN CARRY STATE�¢?? REFERS TO A STATE THAT ALLOWS
PEOPLE TO OPENLY AND VISIBLY CARRY A FIREARM ON ONE�¢??S
PERSON WITHOUT A SPECIAL LICENSE OR PERMIT.

�¢??CONCEALED CARRY FIREARMS LICENSE�¢?? REFERS TO A SPECIFIC
LICENSE ISSUED TO AN INDIVIDUAL AUTHORIZING THE PERSON
TO CARRY A FIREARM CONCEALED ON HIS OR HER PERSON OR
VEHICLE.

  1. IN PHILADELPHIA, UNLIKE ANY OTHER PART OF THE STATE, FOR
    ANY PERSON TO LAWFULLY, OPENLY AND VISIBLY CARRY A
    FIREARM, THAT PERSON MUST HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY
    FIREARMS LICENSE. SO, IN PHILADELPHIA, IF A PERSON HAS A
    VALID CONCEALED CARRY FIREARMS LICENSE, HE OR SHE CAN
    LEGALLY CARRY A FIREARM EITHER OPEN AND VISIBLE OR
    CONCEALED.

  2. AN OFFICER ENCOUNTERING A PERSON CARRYING A FIREARM
    OPENLY IN PHILADELPHIA SHOULD FOR THE SAFTEY OF PUBLIC
    INVESTIGATE AS A POSSIBLE VUFA VIOLATION.

A. SINCE A SEPARATE LICENSE IS REQUIRED IN PHILADELPHIA
AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY OFFICER TO KNOW WHO DOES
AND DOES NOT HAVE A VALID CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE, IT
IS ENTIRELY REASONALBE FOR OFFICERS TO TEMPORARILY
DETAIN AND INVESTIGATE ANY INDIVIDUAL CARRYING A
FIREARM EXPOSED TO DETERMINE IF THE PERSON IS
OPERATING WITH THE LAW.

B. IMMEDIATLEY SEIZE ANY FIREARMS FOR OFFICER SAFETY
DURING THE STOP AND UNLOAD THE FIREARMS IF POSSIBLE,
BUT ONLY IF IT CAN BE DONE SAFELY.

C. A 75-48A MUST BE COMPLETED AND THE BASIS FOR THE STOP
WOULD BE A �¢??POSSIBLE VUFA VIOLATION�¢??

D. ONCE THE OFFICER RECEIVES CONFIRMATION THAT THE
CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE IS VALID, AND THERE ARE NO
OTHER OFFENSE OR VIOLATIONS BEING INVESTIGATED,
OFFICERS SHOULD RETURN THE FIREARM AND AMMUNITION
BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL AT THE END OF THE STOP.

E. HOWEVER, IF THE INDIVIDUAL CANNOT PRODUCE A VALID
CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE OR THE LICENSE IS NOT VALID
(I.E. EXPIRED OR REVOKED), PROBABLE CAUSE THEN EXISTS
TO ARREST THE INDIVIDUAL FOR THE VUFAVIOLATION AND
TRANSPORT THE INDIVIDUAL TO THE DIVISIONAL DETECTIVES
FOR PROCESSING. THE FIREARM AND AMMUNITION SHOULD
BE PLACED ON A PROPERTY RECEIPT (75-3) AND MARKED AS
�¢?? EVIDENCE�¢??. A 75-48A FOR THE INITIAL STOP MUST BE
PREPARD ALONG WITH A 75-48 FOR THE VUFA ARREST.[/quote]

Don’t see anything in there about preemptively drawing your weapon on the guy.

And it doesn’t really matter what this says, because it is blatantly obvious the cop had no idea what the policy and law were. The cop wasn’t operating under this directive, he was operating under the directive: “OMG, GUN ILLEGAL MUST TAKE DOWN CRIMINAL!!!”[/quote]

So are you saying that it was illegal for him to draw his weapon? Why don’t you do your legal research and get back to us with supporting references. If it wasn’t illegal, all we’re left with is your “opinion” that you think it was unreasonable. And it might be in the woods of TN. I bet you poll the average law-abiding Philadelphian and they would disagree.

It doesn’t matter what it says? Classic. You’re as stubborn as they come. It expressly states that those that open carry are to be detained and checked. That’s exactly what the officer was doing - it doesn’t matter that he didn’t know the technicality of open carry, the intercept and interview is at the end of the day, the same.

Let’s follow this case. The new Commissioner is tough on corruption and discipline. I’ll make you a friendly wager that the officer in question is not reprimanded in any shape or form for drawing his weapon. You’re a motherfucker firefighter and you want a gun to take to scenes, and you’re criticizing his drawing his gun on an armed man that is noncompliant? LOL the irony is rich.

111

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If open carry is so bad and dangerous, why do cops do it?[/quote]

Another fallacious rhetorical question.

Please cut and paste where anyone took the position that open carry is “so bad and dangerous”. I believe us locals have said repeatedly that it is not the custom in Philadelphia. It’s downright fucking unusual. In fact, this is a City that states you can’t wear your sidearm under your ACT 235 (licensed guard) to and from work.

It is NOT the custom around here. It is VERY unusual. It begs further examination and in fact, the directive instructs officers to detain and interview - that’s how fucking unusual it is. Get it?

112

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If open carry is so bad and dangerous, why do cops do it?[/quote]

There is no point to cops carrying concealed. If you see a cop you know he has a gun, concealing it won’t fool anybody.

113

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]fighting_fires wrote:
^check my edit. that just seems like bad news bears to me. the edit eplains why. personally i dont give a fuck, but its in your best interest not to, even if youre allowed to. a FF with a gun, youll be laughed out of court if you use, seemingly good shot or not. were not cops let them do their job and well do ours. not trying to sound snide just couldnt think of another way to explain that. [/quote]

What if you are the only one to respond to an accedent call and you get there and some dude is beating the crap out of a woman who cut him off?

I’m not talking about enforcing the law, I’m only talking about protection. And I don’t know that I ever would, but I’d still like to have the permit.

Edit:
Just to be clear, this isn’t like a city where there are people around all the time and cops are a minute or 2 away.

There are a lot of dark country roads and a lot of farm land with sparse housing. And a lot of guys don’t get up for 3am calls unless it’s a fire. Hell, even then it can end up being just a couple of people.

Whats worse is that a lot of the time its some drunken red necks lighting hay bails on fire for fun.

There are a lot of situations where you can be essentially alone and in an unsafe situation.[/quote]

Get your cell phone out and record the incident. its not worth your family’s future to fight the court system. Just not worth it.[/quote]

You and I may have different morals.

I’ve gotten in trouble because of a woman asking for help before, and even if it makes me an idiot, I’m sure I’d do it again.[/quote]

Would you do it for a man? If not, you’re a confused idiot.

114

[quote]greggio wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If open carry is so bad and dangerous, why do cops do it?[/quote]

There is no point to cops carrying concealed. If you see a cop you know he has a gun, concealing it won’t fool anybody.[/quote]

not nonuniform or off duty cops.

115

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]greggio wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If open carry is so bad and dangerous, why do cops do it?[/quote]

There is no point to cops carrying concealed. If you see a cop you know he has a gun, concealing it won’t fool anybody.[/quote]

not nonuniform or off duty cops.[/quote]

I see what you mean. However, all of the nonuniform cops I know do not open carry, granted it is only a couple. I do know quite a few uniform guys who all carry concealed when the are off duty though, for the same reasons I mentioned in my other post.

116

[quote]greggio wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]greggio wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If open carry is so bad and dangerous, why do cops do it?[/quote]

There is no point to cops carrying concealed. If you see a cop you know he has a gun, concealing it won’t fool anybody.[/quote]

not nonuniform or off duty cops.[/quote]

I see what you mean. However, all of the nonuniform cops I know do not open carry, granted it is only a couple. I do know quite a few uniform guys who all carry concealed when the are off duty though, for the same reasons I mentioned in my other post.[/quote]

In Philadelphia, I’ve only seen detectives and plainsclothes LEO open carry. I’ve seen business owners “open carry” but only within and around the premises of the building. I’ve been here all my life and open carry is not the custom. That is the point…not whether it is “bad”.

It just occurred to me, that I’m arguing with a guy from TN holding a fish with the woods in the background. Now, the foregoing is not intended as an ad hominem in the hopes of undermining DD’s position, but it does perhaps illustrate he is as far removed from the customs and laws in Philadelphia as I am about that fish in his arms - which by the way, I can only assume it was a good fish, because I have no fucking idea what kind of fish it is and he thought enough of it to take a picture!

117

It’s best not to try to initiate a confrontation ever, especially when firearms are present.

I live in Pa. I have a permit to carry and have been well trained. Even if allowed, I never open carry. Yes, I have the right but I darn well know it makes many people nervous. Including cops, who have guns.

I don’t try to prove a point when guns are involved. he risk it to great. And this is from the biggest NRA, RTKABA guy you can find.

I’d like to see the guy win of course, but why take the hard road to prove a point?

118

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]greggio wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]greggio wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If open carry is so bad and dangerous, why do cops do it?[/quote]

There is no point to cops carrying concealed. If you see a cop you know he has a gun, concealing it won’t fool anybody.[/quote]

not nonuniform or off duty cops.[/quote]

I see what you mean. However, all of the nonuniform cops I know do not open carry, granted it is only a couple. I do know quite a few uniform guys who all carry concealed when the are off duty though, for the same reasons I mentioned in my other post.[/quote]

In Philadelphia, I’ve only seen detectives and plainsclothes LEO open carry. I’ve seen business owners “open carry” but only within and around the premises of the building. I’ve been here all my life and open carry is not the custom. That is the point…not whether it is “bad”.

It just occurred to me, that I’m arguing with a guy from TN holding a fish with the woods in the background. Now, the foregoing is not intended as an ad hominem in the hopes of undermining DD’s position, but it does perhaps illustrate he is as far removed from the customs and laws in Philadelphia as I am about that fish in his arms - which by the way, I can only assume it was a good fish, because I have no fucking idea what kind of fish it is and he thought enough of it to take a picture![/quote]

I work in a decent sized city and I grew up and went to school in a large city. Not philly, but I do have more experience than I’m getting credit for.

My line of inquiry on open carry is on honest question. I know several off duty cops that open carry. It just doesn’t seem like they would if it were inherently more dangerous. Maybe partially because it is much more common and accepted here (there are several guys that you’ll see with holsters on at work, though they don’t carry in the building)

And it’s a catfish. Not huge (big ones can get up in the 50+ pound range), but the picture was more a way of rubbing it in to my brother who didn’t catch a thing.

My wife and I like to take our dogs out hiking the farm. That as of now, is the only time I carry. And that’s mainly because of coyotes, lol. And yes, I agree that is a far removed reason from carrying in the big fancy city. Garsh.

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[quote]tom63 wrote:
It’s best not to try to initiate a confrontation ever, especially when firearms are present.

I live in Pa. I have a permit to carry and have been well trained. Even if allowed, I never open carry. Yes, I have the right but I darn well know it makes many people nervous. Including cops, who have guns.

I don’t try to prove a point when guns are involved. he risk it to great. And this is from the biggest NRA, RTKABA guy you can find.

I’d like to see the guy win of course, but why take the hard road to prove a point? [/quote]

My feelings exactly.

120

[quote]tom63 wrote:
It’s best not to try to initiate a confrontation ever, especially when firearms are present.

I live in Pa. I have a permit to carry and have been well trained. Even if allowed, I never open carry. Yes, I have the right but I darn well know it makes many people nervous. Including cops, who have guns.

I don’t try to prove a point when guns are involved. he risk it to great. And this is from the biggest NRA, RTKABA guy you can find.

I’d like to see the guy win of course, but why take the hard road to prove a point? [/quote]

Finally a voice of reason. Guns are a right, but also a responsibility. This guy was irresponsible. Like I said, he could very well have gotten shot.