EmilyQ spoke.
Why did this thread even continue?
Stop arguing to feel smart, and as a result, you’ll be instantly smarter.
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
[quote]CargoCapable wrote:
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
[quote]CargoCapable wrote:
You’re a sick little girl, nuffsaid. You will be the sad, angry victim until you can come to terms with your bullshit. And I wouldn’t doubt you feel a victim often.
Get some counseling.[/quote]
I’m no victim here. i had a concern and i wanted feedback, just like everyone who posts on this website.
How’s your big sad probelm with Dominant Women, Cargo?
You solved that yet?
Honestly I’ve never seen so much whining about nothing. Couldn’t just leave her and find someone you liked, huh?
But no, you had to TALK about your problems, just like I’ve been doing here.
Valid when you do it, bad when I do it.
What a damned sleazy showpony you are.[/quote]
Well it shored up nicely. I fucked her, asked her to explain her dominant viewpoint conclusively and she broke.
You, on the other hand, are simply playing a victim and a fool.[/quote]
Your interpretations are foolish, malicious and useless.
[/quote]
Suit yourself. You’re the unhappy wench perpetuating a negative communication loop with your book buddy.
I just read the OP’s post and skipped to the end. Just wanted to say that I hate it when people label themselves to excuse why they were acting like a bitch. For example, “I am an Ares so…”, or “I am a strong woman so…”, or “I am a masculine man so…”, etc.
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Why on earth would you talk to someone like that, regardless of gender?
If they are too stupid to listen, they aren’t worth your time.[/quote]
That’s what I was wondering. Why you choose to engage with someone with “a pattern” of nasty behavior. That you’re shrieking at him to make a point about a book is silly at best. Do you really need to be told that his response was dumb? Okay, it was dumb. But you rode that train with him, and it sounds like you do it with some regularity. So I guess you get what you get.
But I’m not male, and you did specify that it was male…er, perspectives…that you sought, so…good luck![/quote]
hey Emily, women are welcome to comment too.
I’m just trying to work out what can and should not be tolerated from someone who styles themselves a friend.
Sorry if i don’t regard friendship as disposable as some people.
As for the regularity thing, it takes time to get to know someone and their patterns. It was only on reflection that i realised his own patterns.
I’m sure you know some people who drive you crazy. Does it mean you throw them away if they have redeeming virtues?
I don’t know what you do, but most people around here have their boundaries and no-go zones.
I was just curious about what men think about that sentence. I enjoy hearing people’s views![/quote]
'nuffsaid, do you realize that in a short return post to me you’ve employed defensiveness, sarcasm, and a passive-aggressive attack on my character?
Defensive: “I’m just trying to…”
Sarcastic, defensive, passive-aggressive: “Sorry if I don’t regard friendship as disposable as some people.”
Passive-aggressive: “I don’t know what you do, but most people around here have their boundaries and no-go zones.”
You and your friend both need to strengthen boundaries. You need to stop needling people when they don’t say what you want, as you have throughout this thread and presumably did to your friend. Screaming at someone who doesn’t care enough to listen to a book review should be a no-go. His statement is an idiotic defense of indefensible behavior, but so is “Sorry if I don’t regard friendship as disposable as some people” which you used in defense of having yelled at and hung up on your friend and then asked for support regarding his unbearable awfulness online. You have support regarding his behavior, it WAS awful. But you may want to check your own. I say this not as an attack…I don’t know you or care about you enough to aggress in any way…but merely as feedback from a more objective place.
Were it me and I wanted to maintain the friendship, I might apologize for being a jerk myself, promise that I would try not to repeat my own shitty patterns, and then state that however I will not tolerate any further gender attacks.
[/quote]
Well Emily, here is your initial response:
"That you’re shrieking at him to make a point about a book is silly at best. Do you really need to be told that his response was dumb? Okay, it was dumb. But you rode that train with him, and it sounds like you do it with some regularity. So I guess you get what you get. "
You called my behaviour silly, questioned my “need” to be told something and criticise me for getting what I get.
A condescending little bunch of remarks and then you can’t take some sarcasm?
amy my, labelling all my behaviours. And you don’t expect comeback.
"Passive-aggressive eh? " You know why I said “I don’t know what you do?” Because I don’t know you Emily. That’s why. Seems to me you’re being defensive and snarky. Not a polite response to begin with, then a nannytype response with actually some reasonable advice right at the end.
Pity it took so long to get there.
Now, your point about me shrieking at him about a book. Of cours rto an outsider it seems silly.
The whole thing was stupid. When people rant and scream at each other it’s not always about the thing even if it seems trivial. But I did not - or tried not - discuss every little thing about every little nuance of the preceding circumstances because I did not wish to bring his personal circumstances into this discussion.
I made the very specific point that I wanted feedback on a sentence which was seriously misplaced.
After your patronising remarks you finally gave me that feedback. Thank you.
by the way, there’s a useful little phrase that circulates in places like this: “If you can’t take it don’t dish it out.”
Your initial response was neither polite nor helpful and you seem to have taken my remarks in response to your criticism way way too personally.
Do you seriously think I’m going to sit back and say Yes Ma’am in the face of your rudeness??
Forget it.
Maybe you and Cargo guy should have a little confab - you seem well-attuned to each other and almost equally rude in your own ways.[/quote]
Comebacks?
Take it?
Dish it out?
Comebacks to what? That I said it’s absurd to shriek a book review at someone? But my goodness, it IS. Is there any question about this? That I said your friend’s reaction was dumb? Here again, it IS. Why, it even curdled your very own stomach! (However, I speculate that he may actually have been joking, trying to lighten things and get the friendship back on track. The “dontcha know” sounds joking to me.)
Take it? Take what? There is probably a small handful of posters on TN I respect well enough that they could potentially hurt my feelings and you’re not among them. However, they never will hurt my feelings, because if they are people I respect they wouldn’t be involved in a pissing contest for its own sake. If they disagree with me or find fault with my behavior or posts, I’m going to pay particular attention, as I am far more interested in extinguishing negative behaviors in myself than in winning fights.
Dish it out? Dish what out? That I think you should consider your own part in the escalation of the fight you laid out for the board’s consideration? Okay, then, i dished it out. You are more than welcome to throw my own communication patterns at me, though as comebacks go it’s rather weak to suggest one consider one’s own patterns when that is what the opponent has suggested.
And this strikes you as valid? Well, okay then!
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Stop arguing to feel smart, and as a result, you’ll be instantly smarter.[/quote]
But if someone does that he does not want to BE smart, he wants to FEEL smart.
And I am not nitpicking here, that is a profound difference, what you are suggesting here is “if you want to score a goal, go fishing”.
Whenever someone feels a need to post on a forum about some conflict with someone we don’t know, one must always question the OP’s motives. You want a man’s opinion on him? Well by the interpretation you’ve given us, he sounds like a pathetic person. But ofcourse there’s always two sides to the story and I can see from your post you may have embellished the story, or altered to make you look like the victim. The way you are acting so defensive in your posts, makes me believe you have told a very subjective account of the situation. Your posts reek of insecurity and are attention seeking.
I think you should be emotionally mature enough to deal with he situation on your own and not create a pity party on the internet so you can feel sorry for yourself and boost your shattered ego.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Stop arguing to feel smart, and as a result, you’ll be instantly smarter.[/quote]
But if someone does that he does not want to BE smart, he wants to FEEL smart.
And I am not nitpicking here, that is a profound difference, what you are suggesting here is “if you want to score a goal, go fishing”. [/quote]
No, he’s right. As I understand it spar4tee is saying that if you want the real thing, stop chasing the facade. It’s stupid to have dumb arguments just to feel smart. It’s smart to wise up and stop doing it.
[quote]SSC wrote:
" So I guess this is where I tell you what I learned - my conclusion, right? Well, my conclusion is: Hate is baggage. Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time. It’s just not worth it. Derek says it’s always good to end a paper with a quote. He says someone else has already said it best. So if you can’t top it, steal from them and go out strong. So I picked a guy I thought you’d like. ‘We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.’ "[/quote]
Yea thats what I said
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Stop arguing to feel smart, and as a result, you’ll be instantly smarter.[/quote]
But if someone does that he does not want to BE smart, he wants to FEEL smart.
And I am not nitpicking here, that is a profound difference, what you are suggesting here is “if you want to score a goal, go fishing”. [/quote]
Just trying to state politely that word catapulting over the internet is a pointless pastime.
[quote]Waylander wrote:
Whenever someone feels a need to post on a forum about some conflict with someone we don’t know, one must always question the OP’s motives. You want a man’s opinion on him? Well by the interpretation you’ve given us, he sounds like a pathetic person. But ofcourse there’s always two sides to the story and I can see from your post you may have embellished the story, or altered to make you look like the victim. The way you are acting so defensive in your posts, makes me believe you have told a very subjective account of the situation. Your posts reek of insecurity and are attention seeking.
I think you should be emotionally mature enough to deal with he situation on your own and not create a pity party on the internet so you can feel sorry for yourself and boost your shattered ego.[/quote]
I wanted men’s opinions on the sentence he said to me, a friend, about his “masculine man” issues.
That was completely inappropriate and I wanted to know what actual normal mene felt about that sentence being said to a woman friend who is NOT his partner.
As people asked questions about the friendship and the conflict I answered to give some context.
Then things seemed to broaden from there.
I have dealt with the situation on my own, but you’re hallucinating if you think I’m an attention-seeker.
If you think hat, Tnation might as well shut down all its social forums right now becasue i have read some mighty petty things on them. Most forum discussions tend to take on a life of their own, woth or without the OP, I’ve noticed.
If you don’t like what I’ve written you’re entitled to not like tham.
there are plenty of people all over the world seeking perpective on their problems from strangers on the web. I’m one of them. If you can’t deal with that maybe you should go elsewhere and reflect on the perfect life you evidently have where you don’t need anyone else’s input.
I’m not an attention seeker just becasue i post on a forum. And I ahve not been defensive, I’ve simply answered in kind to a couple of people who have insulterd me and patronised me.
You might notice I’ve also thankd a lot of peope for their input. Those people did not necessarily “agree” with me but were polite enough to simply state their opinion on the sentence and not impute motives to m,y character that thye have no way of knowing.
I could say quite a lot of things about people who jump to conclusions, call me defensive when they have misread the tone of my sentences and passive aggressive and all sorts of thing instead of limiting themselves to the one issue I requested feedback about.
This happens in organisational emails all the time and cause a great deal of confusionm in written communication, which is one ofits limitations.
Forums continue with or qwithout the OP, depending on who posts new material.
feel free to keep posting if you want, but I’ve efefctively finshied with the issue.
I look forward to your claims of attention seeking and insecurity the next time someone posts ona forum about their particular issue.
I also look forward to seeing the equanimity you display when people insult you and call you thijngs like passive aggressive and defensive when all they’re doing is mireding your words.
Nobody likes being misunderstood, it creates needless confusion. Much better to ask any poster exactly what they meant by something rather than assume you’ve caught every nuance from one cursory reading.
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
[quote]Waylander wrote:
Whenever someone feels a need to post on a forum about some conflict with someone we don’t know, one must always question the OP’s motives. You want a man’s opinion on him? Well by the interpretation you’ve given us, he sounds like a pathetic person. But ofcourse there’s always two sides to the story and I can see from your post you may have embellished the story, or altered to make you look like the victim. The way you are acting so defensive in your posts, makes me believe you have told a very subjective account of the situation. Your posts reek of insecurity and are attention seeking.
I think you should be emotionally mature enough to deal with he situation on your own and not create a pity party on the internet so you can feel sorry for yourself and boost your shattered ego.[/quote]
I look forward to your claims of attention seeking and insecurity the next time someone posts ona forum about their particular issue.
I also look forward to seeing the equanimity you display when people insult you and call you thijngs like passive aggressive and defensive when all they’re doing is mireding your words.
[/quote]
You wanted a man’s opinion, so you got one.
It depends on whether they are being attention seeking and insecure. If they are, then I’ll tell them.
I doubt a situation will arise on these forums where people call me passive aggressive or defensive. When you are neither of these things, people tend not to call you them.
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
[quote]Waylander wrote:
Whenever someone feels a need to post on a forum about some conflict with someone we don’t know, one must always question the OP’s motives. You want a man’s opinion on him? Well by the interpretation you’ve given us, he sounds like a pathetic person. But ofcourse there’s always two sides to the story and I can see from your post you may have embellished the story, or altered to make you look like the victim. The way you are acting so defensive in your posts, makes me believe you have told a very subjective account of the situation. Your posts reek of insecurity and are attention seeking.
I think you should be emotionally mature enough to deal with he situation on your own and not create a pity party on the internet so you can feel sorry for yourself and boost your shattered ego.[/quote]
I wanted men’s opinions on the sentence he said to me, a friend, about his “masculine man” issues.
That was completely inappropriate and I wanted to know what actual normal mene felt about that sentence being said to a woman friend who is NOT his partner.
As people asked questions about the friendship and the conflict I answered to give some context.
Then things seemed to broaden from there.
I have dealt with the situation on my own, but you’re hallucinating if you think I’m an attention-seeker.
If you think hat, Tnation might as well shut down all its social forums right now becasue i have read some mighty petty things on them. Most forum discussions tend to take on a life of their own, woth or without the OP, I’ve noticed.
If you don’t like what I’ve written you’re entitled to not like tham.
there are plenty of people all over the world seeking perpective on their problems from strangers on the web. I’m one of them. If you can’t deal with that maybe you should go elsewhere and reflect on the perfect life you evidently have where you don’t need anyone else’s input.
I’m not an attention seeker just becasue i post on a forum. And I ahve not been defensive, I’ve simply answered in kind to a couple of people who have insulterd me and patronised me.
You might notice I’ve also thankd a lot of peope for their input. Those people did not necessarily “agree” with me but were polite enough to simply state their opinion on the sentence and not impute motives to m,y character that thye have no way of knowing.
I could say quite a lot of things about people who jump to conclusions, call me defensive when they have misread the tone of my sentences and passive aggressive and all sorts of thing instead of limiting themselves to the one issue I requested feedback about.
This happens in organisational emails all the time and cause a great deal of confusionm in written communication, which is one ofits limitations.
Forums continue with or qwithout the OP, depending on who posts new material.
feel free to keep posting if you want, but I’ve efefctively finshied with the issue.
I look forward to your claims of attention seeking and insecurity the next time someone posts ona forum about their particular issue.
I also look forward to seeing the equanimity you display when people insult you and call you thijngs like passive aggressive and defensive when all they’re doing is mireding your words.
Nobody likes being misunderstood, it creates needless confusion. Much better to ask any poster exactly what they meant by something rather than assume you’ve caught every nuance from one cursory reading.
[/quote]
Interesting. Perhaps apply this thinking to your buddy and quit playing a victim.
[quote]Waylander wrote:
I doubt a situation will arise on these forums where people call me passive aggressive or defensive. When you are neither of these things, people tend not to call you them.[/quote]
Exactly.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Waylander wrote:
I doubt a situation will arise on these forums where people call me passive aggressive or defensive. When you are neither of these things, people tend not to call you them.[/quote]
Exactly.
[/quote]
What nonsense. People misinterpret things all the time according to their individual ways of speaking and expression. This issue has been dealt with on many business/organisation/communication forums and workplaces precisely because there is so much room for misinterpretion in written communications - emails, for example. And posts on forums.
Emily Q’s original response to me is a case in point.
She misread my statement to her “I just wanted to …”
I intended it to mean “I simply wanted to …” as a clarifying statement of my intention, she (mis)read it as a whiny little defensive sentence and without checking her misinterpretation, she proceeded to call me defensive etc. Highly insulting and unwarranted. Some people of course, have the good grace to apologise or acknowledge their mistakes in this area when they are pointed out - others enjoy the thrill of being wrong on ego grounds. Sop be it.
The one advantage of that is that it makes an excellent case study for a future essay on written miscommunications.
Now, I’m happy for this thread to end.
I did post a “let’s finish this here and thank you” after the first couple of pages of postings, but people continued to post. So I say AGAIN I’m happy to end this here, and thank you all for your posts.
Lol, a future essay rife with personal bias, infused with a sense of victimization and as subjective as a piece on communication can be, no doubt.
[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:
Emily Q’s original response to me is a case in point.
She misread my statement to her “I just wanted to …”
I intended it to mean “I simply wanted to …” as a clarifying statement of my intention, she (mis)read it as a whiny little defensive sentence and without checking her misinterpretation, she proceeded to call me defensive etc. Highly insulting and unwarranted.[/quote]
Regardless of how you phrased it, the fact that you say it at all is defensive. It’s a defensive style of thinking/writing/communicating.
The fact that you’re at all insulted by it… is also defensive thinking.
As is the fact that, when you read this, you’ll probably deny that you’re being defensive.
Regardless of whether you believe me, or Emily, or anyone else who’s said that, you should take a hard look at your own communication style and pay attention to what it conveys. I know you don’t think that you’re being attention-seeking or defensive.
However, considering multiple people have said the same thing, maybe they’re not wrong.