Periworkout Nutrition and Diet

maxiron · March 15, 2014, 10:49pm

Hi
Considering i’m around 15-18% of body fat I’d like to know what are the latest guidelines in terms of periworkout nutrition(using Plazma & MAG-10 or leucine plus hydrolyzed whey isolate) and the appropriate amount ( gr x lb/bw) of protein, fat and carbs to be taken away from training in the daily diet, to drop to 7-8% body fat, if not even less, maintaining as much as possible the strength.

My training includes 5 workouts per week, and each of these consists of:
1 heavy lifting (ramp or wave style) / density work (same movement) / assistance work (if necessary) / carries or metabolic circuits.

the volume of work is modulated on its effectiveness if it works or not in maintaining the strength and lose fat

Years ago I successfully used the system diet/nutrition from “get jacked” by C. Thibaudeau.
Now that I found the Biotest products are available in UK, I would like to try some new protocol

thanks

pwolves17 · March 17, 2014, 11:33am

Nothing wrong with being 15-18% bf, but going from that level to a legitimate sub 10% is going to be a hell of a diet, not just changing peri workout nutrition. The supplements can certainly help maintain performance during your diet, but you need to start tracking and hitting your macros consistently

maxiron · March 18, 2014, 11:02am

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
Nothing wrong with being 15-18% bf, but going from that level to a legitimate sub 10% is going to be a hell of a diet, not just changing peri workout nutrition. The supplements can certainly help maintain performance during your diet, but you need to start tracking and hitting your macros consistently[/quote]

My bodyweight is around 169 lb.
As starting point i was thinking:

1,5 gr of protein x pound of bw ( not including paraworkout powders, which would be 100 gr);

30-50 gr di carb only at breakfast from fruit ( not including some starchy pre workout and some during workout, for a total of 100gr). Carbs could be reduced over time;

80-100 gr of healthy fat from EVO, fish oil and nuts.

Lot of veggies

Any suggestion?

thank you

Fezzik · March 18, 2014, 6:40pm

Would need more info for specific recommendations, but get your macros fixed before focusing on peri-workout nutrition. Protein and fat look high without knowing context.

Am I reading correctly that you are getting 350g/day protein? That’s a lot. You probably need roughly half that…
80-100 g fat is not bad. Could be reduced to 55-70 grams.
I wouldn’t go lower on carbs period. If you are working out hard, you could bump these up.

maxiron · March 19, 2014, 1:29pm

[quote]Fezzik wrote:
Would need more info for specific recommendations, but get your macros fixed before focusing on peri-workout nutrition. Protein and fat look high without knowing context.

Am I reading correctly that you are getting 350g/day protein? That’s a lot. You probably need roughly half that…
80-100 g fat is not bad. Could be reduced to 55-70 grams.
I wouldn’t go lower on carbs period. If you are working out hard, you could bump these up.[/quote]

Maybe you are right.
I like to drink around 60 gr of hydrolized whey protein isolate + 20 gr of Leucine during my 2 hours of workout (x 5 days/week), heavy session.
After 30 minutes from the end of workout i take 40 gr. of isolate whey + 20 gr of Leucine.
I feel this help a lot my recovery and the increase of strength.

But yes, probably during the day other 4 meals each with 50 grams (even less) of protein is enough.

I read somewhere the guidelines on the protein, excluding paraworkout, around 1.5 to 1.75 grams x pound / bw. a lot.
perhaps be around 1.25 grams x pound is already quite.

maxiron · March 19, 2014, 1:32pm

Maybe you are right.
I like to drink 60 gr of hydrolized whey protein isolate + 20 gr of Leucine during my 2 hours of workout (x 5 days/week), heavy session.
After 30 minutes from the end of workout i take 40 gr. of isolate whey + 20 gr of Leucine.
I feel this help a lot my recovery and the increase of strength.

But yes, probably during the day other 4 meals each with 50 grams (even less) of protein is enough.

I read somewhere the guidelines on the protein, excluding paraworkout, around 1.5 to 1.75 grams x pound / bw. a lot.
perhaps be around 1.25 grams x pound is already quite.

mertdawg · March 19, 2014, 2:57pm

I would start with the calories you need, and put down 50% from fat, 25% from protein and 25% from carbs (and if carbs go under about 100 grams you get WORSE insulin sensitivity by the way).

So on a 2000 cal diet, thats

1000 cals, 110 grams fat
500 cals, 125 grams protein
500 cals, 125 grams carbs

THEN don’t ever lower the carbs or protein on average. That is basically your essential level for good health.

To lose weight fairly fast, cut the number of calories you need to from the fat portion. So to cut 500 cals a day, you would be down to:

500 cals fat (55 grams)
500 cals protein, 125 grams
500 cals carb, 125 grams

you have to make you fats count though by eliminated “cooking” oils that have high Omega-6s

So now you are at a 33% protein, carb, fat diet which would be good for a pound loss a week.

Then I’d add CARBS and Protein on the training day. That will depend on intensity, but I’d say about 200-300 cals per hour of training, 50-60 grams of carbs and about 20 grams of good protein.

(If you were trying to build muscle and not cut fat I’d add another 200-300 cals similarly to each day to the base cal recommendation of 50%/25%/25%. If you want to gain muscle and can afford to increase bodyfat I’d add another 200-300 cals.)

And if you are cutting around 500 cals a day, I believe that you have zero reason to do sets of more than 1-5 reps. Sets of 6-15 build muscle on a surplus cal diet. On a sub maintenance cal diet you should train for strength, with slow muscle fiber building with sets of 1-5, so that your muscles will be strong when you increase your reps later with cals.

High reps and low cals absolutely burn more muscle than low reps and low cals, which have been shown to prevent muscle loss on lower cals.

SO if you are working out 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, for fat loss (500 cals a day), I think you should get about:

1500 cals on a non-training day, 55 grams fat, 125 protein, 125 carb
1900-2100 cals on a 2 hour training day, 55 grams carb, 165 grams protein (40 grams added from high leucine source peri-workout) and about 225 grams carbs (with the extra 100 grams or so peri workout).

Your 169 pounds and 18% bodyfat. 165 grams of protein is a lot.
But again if you are doing sets in the 10 rep range 2 hours a day 5 days a week and trying to cut bodyfat, forget about it. You are using a muscle BUILDING program and trying to cut fat.

Fezzik · March 19, 2014, 5:13pm

Yeah it seems like general views on protein requirements have changed within the strength world. About 10 years ago, a lot of guys were recommending up to 2g/lb BW.

Recommendations today are a little more sensible. The minimum is around 1g per pound LEAN body mass. If you are cutting or bulking, then extra protein is beneficial up to ~1.3-1.4g/lb LBM (lean!).

Your periworkout supplementation should count towards this amount.

[quote]maxiron wrote:

[quote]Fezzik wrote:
Would need more info for specific recommendations, but get your macros fixed before focusing on peri-workout nutrition. Protein and fat look high without knowing context.

Am I reading correctly that you are getting 350g/day protein? That’s a lot. You probably need roughly half that…
80-100 g fat is not bad. Could be reduced to 55-70 grams.
I wouldn’t go lower on carbs period. If you are working out hard, you could bump these up.[/quote]

Maybe you are right.
I like to drink around 60 gr of hydrolized whey protein isolate + 20 gr of Leucine during my 2 hours of workout (x 5 days/week), heavy session.
After 30 minutes from the end of workout i take 40 gr. of isolate whey + 20 gr of Leucine.
I feel this help a lot my recovery and the increase of strength.

But yes, probably during the day other 4 meals each with 50 grams (even less) of protein is enough.

I read somewhere the guidelines on the protein, excluding paraworkout, around 1.5 to 1.75 grams x pound / bw. a lot.
perhaps be around 1.25 grams x pound is already quite.[/quote]

maxiron · March 19, 2014, 5:20pm

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I would start with the calories you need, and put down 50% from fat, 25% from protein and 25% from carbs (and if carbs go under about 100 grams you get WORSE insulin sensitivity by the way).