[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Which is why NOBODY uses it on the Tour de France
[/quote]
you said yourself, it is possible (albeit very expensive) to buy “cleanliness”…
EPO would be very easy to test for… a simple RBC panel could do the trick, very cheap, especially when compared to tests performed to find AAS.
there was a guy in the tour de france whose RBC panel was off because he slept in a homemade hyperbaric chamber… he lost his medal. apparently, he didn’t have enough money to evade the regulations, even though he wasn’t technically cheating.
Except that TRT within normal values is still an advantage. Age from 25 to 40 and the values stay the same. Overstressed from work, not getting much sleep? Values stay the same. Restricted diet to lose weight? Values stay the same. While I agree that the advantage is not an supra-normal one, it still counts.
[/quote]
Thanks for the reply.
I understand your statement, but I’ve never bought into this line of thought because I do not think values are affected significantly from lack of sleep, stress, and restrictive dieting. I have had guys tell me in contest prep that they had a lowered libido but libido is dependent not only on testosterone level.
I’m uncertain how the WADA specifies the rule; however some organizations specify like this…
For Testosterone â?? if the administration of testosterone or the use of any other manipulation has the result of increasing the ratio of the total concentration of testosterone to that of epitestosterone in the urine to greater that 6:1, unless there is evidence that this ratio is due to a physiological or pathological
condition.
[/quote]
Except that TRT within normal values is still an advantage. Age from 25 to 40 and the values stay the same. Overstressed from work, not getting much sleep? Values stay the same. Restricted diet to lose weight? Values stay the same. While I agree that the advantage is not an supra-normal one, it still counts.
[/quote]
Thanks for the reply.
I understand your statement, but I’ve never bought into this line of thought because I do not think values are affected significantly from lack of sleep, stress, and restrictive dieting. I have had guys tell me in contest prep that they had a lowered libido but libido is dependent not only on testosterone level.
You might be right and I might be wrong though. [/quote]
Well excessive endurance event can lower testosterone significantly. The doc wrote in his book that he would test the athletes after a days of racing and would find an hormonal system that was out of whack. He would say “my medical recommendation is to rest for at least a week”… when the athlete would say that he has to race tomorrow the doc would give him testosterone (andriol) to rebalance his system.
Was it just an excuse to legitimate his job as a dopper? Maybe. But it is a fact that extreme endurance event decrease testosterone.
Then there is the fact that the “normal” testosterone range is quite wide… some people could use low doses of test without exceeding normal levels. Some would see that as leveling the playing field (compete against those with higher natural levels) others stll see that as cheating. I side with the later.
You are correct… there is a difference between “treatment” and “optimization”… I remember reading a book by a Tour de France doctor who justified his actions saying that he was optimizing his athletes not doping them because he was not exceeding the normal values. I do not agree with that way of thinking.[/quote]
Thanks for this. I assume optimization is keeping the athletes’ values at 800 to 1200 or so, high normal.
I have been hypogonadal because of no known cause, and treated, for the past fourteen years. I usually test in the 700s to 900s, and have occasionally tested at 500 to 600. I’ve never felt difference between 500 to 900, likely because there is no difference in functioning and strength and performance or because it was so negligible I couldn’t feel it.
The only time I felt anything extraordinary was when I tested at 1500 ng/dl from two packets of Androgel per day. I just knew something was off and made an appointment way before my every third or fourth month visit. It felt physically satisfying but emotionally I was a wreck.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Which is why NOBODY uses it on the Tour de France
[/quote]
you said yourself, it is possible (albeit very expensive) to buy “cleanliness”…
EPO would be very easy to test for… a simple RBC panel could do the trick, very cheap, especially when compared to tests performed to find AAS.
there was a guy in the tour de france whose RBC panel was off because he slept in a homemade hyperbaric chamber… he lost his medal. apparently, he didn’t have enough money to evade the regulations, even though he wasn’t technically cheating. [/quote]
True… but just like with testosterone it can simply be a matter of raising your level to the upper portion of the allowed range. But that also requires money as you need to have someone who can do in-house testing for you, daily.
there was a guy in the tour de france whose RBC panel was off because he slept in a homemade hyperbaric chamber… he lost his medal. apparently, he didn’t have enough money to evade the regulations, even though he wasn’t technically cheating. [/quote]
Pretty sure that was Floyd Landis who did come out and admit to cheating. Unless there was another guy as well.
there was a guy in the tour de france whose RBC panel was off because he slept in a homemade hyperbaric chamber… he lost his medal. apparently, he didn’t have enough money to evade the regulations, even though he wasn’t technically cheating. [/quote]
Pretty sure that was Floyd Landis who did come out and admit to cheating. Unless there was another guy as well. [/quote]
Landis tested positive for testosterone. His T/E ratio was way above the maximum. Then later admitted to using other drugs and attempted to take Lance and many others from the US Postal Service team down with with him. Mainly Lance though. There’s a pretty good documentary about it.
there was a guy in the tour de france whose RBC panel was off because he slept in a homemade hyperbaric chamber… he lost his medal. apparently, he didn’t have enough money to evade the regulations, even though he wasn’t technically cheating. [/quote]
Pretty sure that was Floyd Landis who did come out and admit to cheating. Unless there was another guy as well. [/quote]
Landis tested positive for testosterone. His T/E ratio was way above the maximum. Then later admitted to using other drugs and attempted to take Lance and many others from the US Postal Service team down with with him. Mainly Lance though. There’s a pretty good documentary about it. [/quote]
Wasn’t he the one claiming his failed drug test was due to his homemade sleeping chamber?
there was a guy in the tour de france whose RBC panel was off because he slept in a homemade hyperbaric chamber… he lost his medal. apparently, he didn’t have enough money to evade the regulations, even though he wasn’t technically cheating. [/quote]
Pretty sure that was Floyd Landis who did come out and admit to cheating. Unless there was another guy as well. [/quote]
Landis tested positive for testosterone. His T/E ratio was way above the maximum. Then later admitted to using other drugs and attempted to take Lance and many others from the US Postal Service team down with with him. Mainly Lance though. There’s a pretty good documentary about it. [/quote]
Wasn’t he the one claiming his failed drug test was due to his homemade sleeping chamber? [/quote]
Landis tested positive for testosterone. His T/E ratio was way above the maximum. Then later admitted to using other drugs and attempted to take Lance and many others from the US Postal Service team down with with him. Mainly Lance though. There’s a pretty good documentary about it. [/quote]
Wasn’t he the one claiming his failed drug test was due to his homemade sleeping chamber?[/quote]
Not from what I’ve gathered. His urine tested positive for testosterone. They use the T/E (testosterone/epitestisterone) ratio to determine whether some is using drugs to increase that level dramatically. The maximum ratio is 4:1, his was 11:1. I’m not sure what exactly he tested positive for after the initial drug screenings. I’m pretty sure that test was after a crucial stage in the race. Regardless, well after the fact, he admitted to using EPO, steroids, cortisone, blood transfusions, and sold out Lance and other members of the team. Going as far to say that Lance organized blood transfusions in the team bus. I know he used a hyperbaric chamber (like MANY on the tour de france do) ,but I don’t think it was the case for him get getting caught doping.
There were many others who dropped like flies after Lance left the sport. He had a lot more pull than most people think, and he was a very talented liar. We just only know about the winners of the tour de france because no one cares about the guy who finished 19th was doping.
