PCT After (Kind of) Botched Cycle

Pharma / TRT
1

Hi guys,

I am writing for a friend here (As funny as it may seem). Basically I befriended him a few weeks ago and i could not guide him through his cycle properly.

So, he did a cycle of 500 mg Testosterone Enanthate and 450 mg Deca a year ago i think. Even if he did not use hcg, arimidex and cabergoline, he recovered properly using a Nolvadex only PCT cycle i think.

Now, he is in his second cycle. It’s a 12 week cycle, he is in his 9th week now. Once again the cycle consists of 500 mg Testosterone Enanthate and 450 mg Deca durabolin per week. I advised him to get blood work in week 6. His free testosterone levels were over 8 times the maximum admitted limit so it clearly worked. Though his estrogen levels were also 2 times over the maximum admitted limit. Also prolactin was a little over the limit. I advised him to take Arimidex and Cabergoline to counter the estrogen and prolactin raising effects of Test and Deca. Unfortunately he took 0.5 mg EOD Arimidex (because he said that the pill was too small to take 0.25) from week 8 and 0.25 mg Caber E3D from week 8 too.

I would like to know how to advise him to do a proper PCT after all of this ends. Should he follow the basic PCT protocol in the stickies for a normal 500 mg Test only cycle? Even though it’s his 2nd one and he also used Deca and didn’t properly manage his Estrogen and Prolactin for a long time during the cycle? I am talking about this PCT protocol: Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20 daily

He has Clomid, Nolvadex and also HCG at hand for the PCT. Can or is it actually advised to use HCG after the cycle for recovery along with Clomid and Nolva?

Cliffs:

  • 2nd cycle
  • Test Enanthate 500 mg/week + Deca Durabolin 450 mg/week
  • 0.5 mg Arimidex EOD since week 8
  • 0.25 mg Cabergoline E3D since week 8.

Would like to know if the PCT sticky for the 500 mg Test only cycle should be followed or should he also use the HCG that he already has?

Thanks very much for the responses.

2

So the basic premise of pct is this: your natural testosterone is shut down, take drug X to restart it. As such it kind of doesn’t matter what your friend ran during his cycle—as far as which compound(s)—because his natural test level is near zero once the test e clears. The only thing that changes about pct is the timing of it. So the deca takes longer to clear, which means he should cut it off two weeks before he stops his test e. If he times it properly then he should be able to have a successful recovery using one or both of the SERMs. Now, the HCG…

I don’t fully understand why so many guys use it at the end of a cycle instead of just using it throughout. It’s not expensive, and it serves a hugely important role. There’s a reason why a good endo prescribes it to TRT patients. I’m just as shutdown as your friend, even though he’s on cycle and I’m on TRT. We both have the same amount of natural production—zero—and thus we should both be doing what we can to keep as much of our endocrine system functioning as normal as is possible. Taking HCG to keep your testes working properly is just a good practice for anyone who is running exogenous testosterone. But if your friend is going to use it at the end of his cycle and/or during pct then he should keep the doses within the range of what’s generally considered therapeutic. I see a ton of cycle plans that have guys running 5,000iu/w and I simply do not understand the science behind it.

3

Thanks for the response. What would a therapeutic dose of HCG in this scenario be in your opinion? Though I have heard that more is not always better and sometimes when you stack HCG on top of Clomid and Nolvadex it will desensitize your Leydig cells and actually hurt your recovery instead of improving it…