…“Pavel’s methods, is to lift the heavy weights, but if you really look at the load of the 3 thru ? sets, the load is only around 70% 1RM…which is for the average trainee is a load equivalent to about a 12RM.” That’s true. Think of the first two sets as your neural sets, the remaining sets as your metabolic sets. The original Bear was suited more to atheletes who needed to add lbm. Hence, the 3 times per week, less drills workouts. The original bear was more of a compromise between strength and hypertrophy. The point of the bear is to lift a large number of reps in the shortest amount of time. The more bodybuilding suited bear, that I described earlier, trades off on neural strength for hypertrophic strength (best way I could think of to say it). Basically since you are going to do such a high volume for one bodypart you will not be able to train it again for up to a week. Pavel doesn’t believe that this is the best way to do neural trainig. So, in that respect, it differs from his pure strength cyles (training a movement up to 7 times a week, for far less volume per day and week.)
Steveroni…you may find this helpful. Straight from the desk (computer) of the Evil One himself: Monday: Incline/Flat Bench; Tuesday: DLs; Wednesday: Shoulder Press, Curls; Thursday: Squats; Friday: Pullups
BigRob…don’t even need a nickname for ya, bro! You got your hookup already…anyway. Thanks for the low-down, chief. Yeah, volume training can be addictive…it’s not till it’s too late sometimes that it catches up with ya:-) I do think it has its place though…as far as the load selection, I have a difficult time fathoming that you were able to use your 5RM (of your first workset) for 5 sets! That’s some hella crazy interset recovery, my man…I could be mistaken though, perhaps you meant 5, 6 or 7RM of your FIFTH set of 5??? I’m currently employing a more Poliquinesque form of the 5x5…using a weight that’s my 5RM or very close on the first set and nailing that biznatch on the next 4! If ya get 'em, bump it up next time…if not, do it at the same weight next time around and hope the Law of Repeated Efforts steps in. You crazy Swiss-Ball-Dude! That’s awesome.
Au Natural(man)...again, thank you for your insight. And thanks for making me feel good...no one's ever quoteth Timbo! I see and understand exactly what you--and the Evil One--are saying. It makes good sense. It's definitely not the common approach to hypertrophy or bodybuilding...but that may be why it works!
Timbo, that sounds like a decent split. I like it except there is no tricep isolation. I might be inclined to throw in dips instead of one of the presses (incline or bench) just to hit the tris a bit harder. BTW, who is the evil one? Has anyone out ther tried this split? If so what were your results?
Steveroni…You could definitely move things around, include different exercises and the like…I would probably be partial to throwing in a day of rest after two or three days of training and would probably also do more than just one exercise per bodypart (but not via the Bear)…you could easily throw in some tricep work (dips, close-grips, etc) after pullups or whenever. Sorry to be misleading with my nomenclature, but the Evil One is Pavel himself…he answers questions directly at his website…classy guy, ya know…he must’ve learned the personal interaction thing from Shugs during that interview.
Timbo,
Re: laods. I’m trying to think back to my last 5X5 experience that i layed out for you. At first I was thinking that you were right and there was no way I was using my 5RM. Still, I know that if anything, I could maybe squeeze out 1 more. Now my definition of 5RM is with a weight you can lift with tight form. So, maybe it’s not my true 5RM. Even still, In the 5X5 training I’m doing about as close to my 5RM as I can get and hitting most of the five sets. I didn’t think this was out of the ordinary. I know Poloquin says that once you do a full 5 sets of 5, crank up the weight. I guess I’ve just been procrastinating. THANKS FOR THE KICK IN THE ASS BRO.
Robby…I absolutely believe the fact that you can lift your 5RM for all five sets, no doubt, brutha!..but I just find it incredible that you can do it with only 60 seconds rest between sets! I’m doing something similar to 5x5 where I’m using a load that is my 5RM (or, if I can get 6 I get 'em) and just try to get 5 (or the amount of reps I got in the first set) on the subsequent sets. I have been quite successful thus far and basically move up in weight on every exercise each session…but I’m using 3-minute rests! That’s what I meant by not be able to fathom your accomplishments! I didn’t mean to take anything away, bro…you’re not procrastinating at all if you’re making gains, big guy, so keep at it!
I have been using Pavels methods now for only 5 months and have experienced a resurgence not only in growth, but strength and most importantly, interest in training. His bear routine is giving me the hebbie jeebies and I am growing like a weed, although I don’t want to gain any size whatsoever. Let me outline it the best I can. The bear is performed at least 3X per week, concentrating on one lift, or in his words, drill. there are two mutually exclusive parts to the bear, one is the work sets and the second is the volume portion. Work sets are performed in a slow tempo, with a goal of not going to failure ever. the weights are cycled in an effort to constantly increase the weight over the coarse of a two to three week cycle. I am not getting bogged down in mathematics, but with a general approach of a end goal of increased strenghth. Here is my approach. Two work sets, the first being a weight that was previously able to be handled for appr 7 reps. do 5. Second set take off 10% of the first set and perform the same 5 reps, resting 3-5 minutes after the first. Now comes the volume. With another 10% taken off, perform as many sets in good form of 5 reps until form drops off with only taking 30-60 seconds rest, I use 45. There is two exclusive things being done here. I use a top end goal of 10 sets on the volume phase. When I hit that, I add a little weight and start over. The top end work sets are done in cyclic fashion and I dont use the percentage criteria. Only do one exercise with this approach, for a max of 6 weeks. The other moves I use are the standing military press and the chin. I am using the deadlift now and my military and chins are not suffering in the least. I do some other things for shits and giggles, full contact twists and saxon side bends. I try to get out in about 50 minutes. I am usually exhausted but I never go to failure. Strength and size up, but I am getting leaner. If I feel like it, I go into the gym and do one armed dumbell snatches despite the looks of the chronic upright rowers, lateral raisers, pulldown affecianados and the social set. They all look the same and I am responding. Not bad for a 35 year old. I have an end goal of competing in a bodybuilding contest and a powerlifting contest for naturals. I can’t say this is the end all beat all for everyone, but for me, it absolutely is. by the way, my total expenditure for supplements last months was $8
Jay, thanks for the input. I grasp the Bear concept even better now. I’m happy to hear you’ve had such success with this program. Really makes me want to give it a try even more. Got a few questions though. First, have you used the Bear method for the whole time, or just Pavel’s methods in general? Also, do you know why Pavel says to only train a few excercises at a time? Is that really neccessary? Finally, I know you said chins haven’t suffered, but have any of your other lifts suffered from not training them for a while? More importantly, has any part of your body lost size, such as arms, calves, etc.? Thanks for your input
Jay, that sounds good. I’ve been seriously thinking about trying out Pavel’s Bear for a few months too. If you’ve kept records, what kind of strength and body weight changes have you made over this 5 month period?
Hi guys, alot of good info here. Just so I got this right. So you select a few exercises like , squats, dips, and chins, and you would perform ALL exercises on say, a three day split, Mon, Wed, and Friday? Is that correct? So that works out to training each lift 3 times a week right?
Wow, Jay! Thanks for the update and I really admire your progress, confidence and goal-setting…good luck and keep us posted! Great description of the Bear. While the method you described–where you concentrate on a single lift/drill for a period of time–is what was the original method and Pavel’s method of choice, I know I would be more interested in a more bodybuilding-friendly approach (split, exercise selection). I know this may seem narrow-minded…but, I have been informed that this can be done and Pavel has actually set up MM2K writer David Kennedy a Bear program that had him training on one exercise/bodypart over a 5-day split, with excellent results. To me, it sounds like you’re currently doing the Bear for the Deadlift only (3x/week) and are you doing PTP for the other two drills (2x5)? Or are you doing something different–to clarify for myself and others? Also, you typically do around 12 sets total for your Bear drill? And look to increase the weights on subsequent weeks/sessions? Thanks, Jay, and sorry for the bombardment of questions!
Random Weights...sounds like you have the general idea, but I don't think that the Bear is meant to be done for each exercise every day during a cycle. But what you could do is each of those 3 drills Bear style once or twice a week and the other day or two just do 2 sets of 5. Maybe Jay can lend a hand there, but I think that would be safe. For Example: Monday: Deadlifts (Bear), Dips (2x5), Chins (2x5); Wed: Dips (Bear), Chins (2x5), DLs (2x5); Fri: Chins (Bear), DLs (2x5), Dips (2x5).
re-reading my post, I did leave some holes. There was one question about what drills I do. I am using the deadlift in the Bear fashion and doing a pressing motion and the chin after I am done with the bear. There was a question about whether or not my other lifts have suffered, and initially they did, but come back in leaps and bounds. My bench for instance, with no horizontal pressing did suffer an approximate fall from what I finished with 8 reps, I was only able to do 5 reps with. Didnt fail but form went to hell. I think most peope experience this, where they can’t complete a rep at a weight, but really dont feel any outright musculature failure, more like their brain forgets how to recruit the fibers, which rapidly returns. I have chosen to only deadlift because of the time to complete a bear routine if using 3 drills I dont have, nor do I think I would do my second and third drill any justice. In about 3 more weeks I am going to swap and do only 2 sets of deads for a 6-8 weeks cycle. I will use an upper body bear at that point, alternating between chin and side bent press, which I just rediscovered. I will still use the same protocol of working up to the standard 2 work sets and then up to 10 sets of volume sets, still at 5 reps. I believe that initially it will be difficult to pump up the volume without hitting the wall, but if that is the case, then the results will easily be tracked, noting progress, weights, sets, rest time, etc. There was another question about if I have done the bear since I picked up Pavel method. Initially, no, just did the PTP, but I did more drills than I should for no other reason than “what if I…” I then decided to follow it to the letter and limit the volume on any given day, and at that point, my strength levels went way up. My deadlift was an embarrasing 235 for 5 in good form. After cycling down, focusing on the form, focusing on shins vertical, on tensing everything, on visualizing driving my heels into the ground instead of lifting the weight, I got up to 365 for 5. Not GREAT, but a solid gain in strength considering the short calendar time and the small amount of total time in the gym. I have noticed an increased ability to generate tension throughout the lats if I focus on tensing the lats as hard as I can and visualize on instead of chinning myself upwards, but rather on the sensation of driving my elbows into the ground. Seems silly but feels totally different. Works so well that I am using 3-5 reps of pronated chins, resting for an equal amount of time and then doing an equal amount of reps with a shoulder width neutral grip chin. (I couldn’t do 3 bodyweight chins with any grip when I started, so judge for yourself)
So for hypertrophy how’s about incorporating a King split with this approach? Ex. Monday: Horiz. pushing/pulling, tris Tues: Quad dominant, calves, abs Thurs: Vertical push/pull Friday: Hip dominant, lower back, calves, abs. I really am intrigued by Pavel’s ideas but from experience there’s no way I can do squats/deads in the same workout and get away with it.
I forgot biceps-this would be on the vertical push/pull day.