[quote]sufiandy wrote:
then morality is rooted in self interest[/quote]
No, it isn’t.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
That just goes to show how little you know about laws.
99,9 % of all all laws have nothing to do with morality whatsoever.
They are purely technical laws from lobster fishing to technical regulations for railroads, trucks, toasters, traffic rules, tax codes and whatnot.
Criminal law is an itsy, bitsy, tiny part of the whole body of the law. [/quote]
Completely false - each and every one of those “technical” regulations embody some ethic or morality - anti-fraud measures, safety (i.e., reduce risk because it is immoral not to given certain dangers, as in you must make a toaster up to a certain specification out of certain materials to prevent foreseeable injury), incentivize better behavior (i.e., tax code exemptions, etc.).
Many regulations are designed to improve efficiency, and that is fine as well. But your point is completely incorrect - most laws have, at their base, some “moral” underpinning it.[/quote]
Look, a lot of things just need some regulating, like screw sizes and whatnot.
If you really, really, really, want to you can drag some sort of ethics into it, but the truth of the matter is it could be regulated in a number of ways without making any discernible difference, it is just about knowing whats what in any given situation.
You can drive on the left side, or on the right one, no one cares.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
then morality is rooted in self interest[/quote]
No, it isn’t.[/quote]
Oh yes it is and plenty.
A more enlightened long term oriented interest maybe, but self interested it is.
[quote]orion wrote:
Look, a lot of things just need some regulating, like screw sizes and whatnot.
If you really, really, really, want to you can drag some sort of ethics into it, but the truth of the matter is it could be regulated in a number of ways without making any discernible difference, it is just about knowing whats what in any given situation.
You can drive on the left side, or on the right one, no one cares. [/quote]
Irrelevant to my point, which you did not address, and mostly incoherent.
[quote]orion wrote:
Oh yes it is and plenty.
A more enlightened long term oriented interest maybe, but self interested it is. [/quote]
I won’t go into detail in the interest of not derailing the thread, but morality is a rule that transcends raw self-interest, because it tells you that certain actions are right or wrong regardless of situation, whcih self-interest does not. Morality is defined by being outside of a “self” and independent of “self” - otherwise, there’s no such thing as morality.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Oh yes it is and plenty.
A more enlightened long term oriented interest maybe, but self interested it is. [/quote]
I won’t go into detail in the interest of not derailing the thread, but morality is a rule that transcends raw self-interest, because it tells you that certain actions are right or wrong regardless of situation, whcih self-interest does not. Morality is defined by being outside of a “self” and independent of “self” - otherwise, there’s no such thing as morality.[/quote]
Mirror neurons explain the rest, maybe there is no such thing as morality then.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Mirror neurons explain the rest, maybe there is no such thing as morality then.[/quote]
Good, I’m glad you had the good sense to concede that position in light of your beliefs, as you can have no other.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Mirror neurons explain the rest, maybe there is no such thing as morality then.[/quote]
Good, I’m glad you had the good sense to concede that position in light of your beliefs, as you can have no other.[/quote]
I think the concept of morality is so pliable that it definitely has no solid shape
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think the concept of morality is so pliable that it definitely has no solid shape [/quote]
Great, thanks.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Oh yes it is and plenty.
A more enlightened long term oriented interest maybe, but self interested it is. [/quote]
I won’t go into detail in the interest of not derailing the thread, but morality is a rule that transcends raw self-interest, because it tells you that certain actions are right or wrong regardless of situation, whcih self-interest does not. Morality is defined by being outside of a “self” and independent of “self” - otherwise, there’s no such thing as morality.[/quote]
Mirror neurons explain the rest, maybe there is no such thing as morality then.[/quote]
Well, I’ll keep this in mind the next time we debate abortion or homosexual marriage. That is, you’re ‘maybe’ aware that I haven’t taken an immoral position with regards to women and gays. Since, ‘maybe,’ there isn’t an immoral position to take. On anything. Maybe.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Oh yes it is and plenty.
A more enlightened long term oriented interest maybe, but self interested it is. [/quote]
I won’t go into detail in the interest of not derailing the thread, but morality is a rule that transcends raw self-interest, because it tells you that certain actions are right or wrong regardless of situation, whcih self-interest does not. Morality is defined by being outside of a “self” and independent of “self” - otherwise, there’s no such thing as morality.[/quote]
Mirror neurons explain the rest, maybe there is no such thing as morality then.[/quote]
Well, I’ll keep this in mind the next time we debate abortion or homosexual marriage. That is, you’re ‘maybe’ aware that I haven’t taken an immoral position with regards to women and gays. Since, ‘maybe,’ there isn’t an immoral position to take. On anything. Maybe.
[/quote]
And your position on the issues are not the point either, its wanting government restrictions on those issues based on your personal position, whatever it may be.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Oh yes it is and plenty.
A more enlightened long term oriented interest maybe, but self interested it is. [/quote]
I won’t go into detail in the interest of not derailing the thread, but morality is a rule that transcends raw self-interest, because it tells you that certain actions are right or wrong regardless of situation, whcih self-interest does not. Morality is defined by being outside of a “self” and independent of “self” - otherwise, there’s no such thing as morality.[/quote]
Mirror neurons explain the rest, maybe there is no such thing as morality then.[/quote]
Well, I’ll keep this in mind the next time we debate abortion or homosexual marriage. That is, you’re ‘maybe’ aware that I haven’t taken an immoral position with regards to women and gays. Since, ‘maybe,’ there isn’t an immoral position to take. On anything. Maybe.
[/quote]
And your position on the issues are not the point either, its wanting government restrictions on those issues based on your personal position, whatever it may be.[/quote]
If there’s no morality, then my positions aren’t immoral, government involvement or not.
Paul Ryan is supposed to be a numbers man? Really? Come one.
The stark raven right wants you to believe he’s a numbers man. Trust me, he isn’t. He’s been in politics all his live, he hasn’t made one honest $. Ever.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Trust me, [/quote]
No thanks, not to be offensive, not in politics.
But some solid data as to his education and experience while in congress would be cool to back up your claim about his lack of skill with numbers and budgets.
So now you can get experienced while sitting in school or congress?
Does that only work for stark raving conservatives?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Trust me, [/quote]
No thanks, not to be offensive, not in politics.
But some solid data as to his education and experience while in congress would be cool to back up your claim about his lack of skill with numbers and budgets.
[/quote]
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
So now you can get experienced while sitting in school or congress?
Does that only work for stark raving conservatives?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Trust me, [/quote]
No thanks, not to be offensive, not in politics.
But some solid data as to his education and experience while in congress would be cool to back up your claim about his lack of skill with numbers and budgets.
[/quote]
[/quote]
LOL…I for one don’t give a shit that Obama never did anything in the business world. I give a shit when he actively tries to make it hard to do business.
I guarantee that Mr. Ryan does not share the presidents viewpoints on empowering business and the redistribution of wealth, from folks who worked hard for it.
Nice try though.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:<<< Nice try though.[/quote]The guy’s from Belchdom. Waddaya want?
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
So now you can get experienced while sitting in school or congress?
Does that only work for stark raving conservatives?
[/quote]
Boldly missing my point.
And this is what I was speaking about early in the thread. We are now seeing the first hard polling data and it is not good!
It seems that the Ryan pick is one of the least popular out of all VP picks over the past 24 years. As I’ve been saying, while many on the right love this guy he doesn’t play nearly as well with other groups.
If you were voting for Romney before you’re still voting for him. If were not votiing for Romney before you’re still not voting for him.
[quote]Bottom Line
Vice presidential picks typically enjoy a lopsidedly positive reaction from Americans when they are first tapped to be on a presidential ticket. However, that doesn’t apply to Ryan, likely owing to his leading role in authoring major conservative alternatives to President Obama’s policies on healthcare and the federal budget – plans that elicited significant Democratic criticism and pushback.[/quote]
There is no Ryan bump!