[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I was communicating with both sides about the situation from 16-20 when was the last time I have spoken to my biological father. (He fucked up, before any of you talk shit about my mother. He had free ride to pick me up ANY time he wanted.)
[/quote]
I assume you heard that from him, and not just her, in which case, I’m sorry to hear that.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Should we write your opinions off the same way you write off X and Gabby (and presumably myself) just because you have never been through a divorce as the husband, never fought for custody as the father?
[/quote]
Anyone is free to listen or not listen to my opinions. I choose to not listen to people talk about “what I’ll be like when I have kids” when they don’t have them.
If you choose that my involvement in divorces above not worthy, fine. [/quote]
The point is that it would be rude for us to do so, yet you do it to others.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
No, it isn’t. Just like the reasons I listed for getting married were not justifications, but rather rational thoughts.
But for the sake of discussion lets just assume for the rest of the thread that anyone can pontificate endless about what it is like to be a parent and how they’ll feel. Deal?
[/quote]
No, you’re using a cop-out. Plain and simple. You are plugging your ears and saying “only my viewpoint is valid la la la la la”. Instead of any form of valid rebuttal you fall back on…? Lack of experience as a parent (i.e. copping out). Which, as X as explained, is not a special status you gain on parenthood.
You also seem to think you are the only special snowflake who is capable of empathy.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
No, it isn’t. Just like the reasons I listed for getting married were not justifications, but rather rational thoughts.
But for the sake of discussion lets just assume for the rest of the thread that anyone can pontificate endless about what it is like to be a parent and how they’ll feel. Deal?
[/quote]
No, you’re using a cop-out. Plain and simple. You are plugging your ears and saying “only my viewpoint is valid la la la la la”. Instead of any form of valid rebuttal you fall back on…? Lack of experience as a parent (i.e. copping out). Which, as X as explained, is not a special status you gain on parenthood.
You also seem to think you are the only special snowflake who is capable of empathy.[/quote]
Look, I have no idea why you guys insist that you have to understand being a parent. I just don’t fucking get it.
It isn’t a cop out, it is actually a very real situation. God forbid you guys take an honest look at yourselves and understand you may not fully grasp something, or may not have the same perspective as someone living the situation you are speculating on.
Go read the thread where the newb was teaching someone to deadlift. For pages now he has been browbeat abotu his shit perspective, but that doesn’t apply to non-parents who need to try and discredit me because they disagree with me abotu something.
Look I don’t give a shit. You guys can think it is a cop-out all day, just like every 22 year old kid on this board just knows what they will be like at 32, and how life is going to work for them.
Empathy doesn’t begin to describe how you feel. fuck me I can’t believe I’m saying the same shit over and over and over.
Look, I, because this is retarded, am done talking about the “how I will feel as a father” situation with non-parents. You or anyone can look at that and call that any name you want.
I wouldn’t take lifting advice and listen to lifting stories from someone who had only swept the gym floor for a living…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I do tire of the “you can’t speak on the subject of kids at all until you have kids” mentality that pops up so often. No, I don’t have kids. That doesn’t mean my brain doesn’t work.[/quote]
You know, that thing reminds me a lot of a “You can’t talk about growing big arms if you don’t have big arms”…
wink
Beans and IH, nice posts, I really enjoy reading that. Call me romantic.
Thanks for fixing the quotes, I’ll get to that.
[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I was communicating with both sides about the situation from 16-20 when was the last time I have spoken to my biological father. (He fucked up, before any of you talk shit about my mother. He had free ride to pick me up ANY time he wanted.)
[/quote]
I assume you heard that from him, and not just her, in which case, I’m sorry to hear that.[/quote]
My biological father is a cock sucker.
I blamed my mother for a lot of shit. And then, people started telling me the truth. So I confronted him, and to his credit, he was very honest with me.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
But see, I’ve been raised by teachers. I may not have kids, but I deal with kids DAILY. Many of my patients are children…and trust me, you don’t treat kids regularly without understanding their psychology…especially with what I do for a living.[/quote]
Ridiculous.
Dealing with a different child for an hour a day =/= being a parent or even come close to understanding the experience of raising a kid(s) and the roller coaster that goes along with it.
I’ve been around lots of kids my whole adult life and owned a home daycare. My wife has a family huge beyond belief, was an elementary ed teacher, worked in daycares since her pre-teens, and owns a business teaching kids, and has said that none of that prepares you for having kids. Her perspective is not unique.
The doctor who delivered our 3rd kid, you know, the doctor that deals with children for a living, had her first kid shortly after she delivered ours. Our kids play together. She takes my wife’s children’s classes.
You know what she (the children’s doctor) says? NOTHING, not even being a pediatrician (you know, a doctor that deals with children everyday), can prepare you for the experience of the unconditional responsibility of being a parent. Not by a long shot.
I won’t insult people who have gone through divorces by saying I know how it feels. I (like most) have close family members and friends throughout my life who have gone through awful divorces, so I know how they tell me they feel, but I certainly wouldn’t claim to have ‘divorce experience’
Sorry, but parenting is “walking the walk”. Until you’ve walked the walk, don’t insult parents by insisting that you understand it. I don’t insult combat veterans with my war stories from playing Delta Force and Battlefield coupled with my ‘real’ gun experience hunting animals. Because, you know, hunting + war = combat experience..
Mak - What happened with the law from your OP? The news story is 3+ years old.
[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
Laws that protect the masses from the actions of “a few” rather than enableing them have nothing to do with pegging all women, if the masses didn’t need protection from the few we wouldn’t need laws atll, and you know this.[/quote]
The law is in place for a reason. The original laws were written, most likely by men, and legal precedence were established, again most likely by men, for a reason.
That doesn’t mean all men are heartless soulless, shit parents does it?
Just because the pendulum may have swung the other way, and now the male is the one “losing” out in the situation (everyone loses, but we agree on that) doesn’t mean that every woman is a soulless urchin looking to steal your money and ruin your life.
I haven’t for one second in this thread stood up for the system as is. My responses come from a position of “correction without hysteria.” And, I have seen this correction begin to happen. Like everything, it isn’t going to change over night.
[quote]
Traditional marriage is where mom lives in the house with the kids, and dad lives in a box now? Interesting.[/quote]
No, you’re projecting. A traditional marriage is the same as it has been since the 80’s, when both parents worked. I like how trickle down theory turned into trickle down 3 generations raised by daycare providers.
You describe a traditional ugly divorce.
[quote]
lol. wut?[/quote]
The insecurity statement is really just a commentary on the current state of marriage in general.
So many people get married for the wrong reasons, and thinking marriage will give you security where you are insecure is one of them.
This may still not make sense, but if you want me to go on about I can.
[quote]
Than you’d better hope he makes ALL the right ones, because clearly you believe that every man who makes the wrong one should risk being thrown under the bus.[/quote]
Life might throw you under the bus. My Sister-in-law’s boyfriend was clipped by a car on his motorcycle. He is in a wheelchair now.
Life is too short to run from women and marriage, if that is what you want, because you might lose out years down the road. You might die tomorrow, shit.
That is like saying, they shouldn’t play the season in the NFL, because your team is undefeated before kickoff.
I am not the type to live my life worried about what horror might await me. I’m aware, I’ve planned as much as I can, and I’ll deal with it when it happens as best I can. But I’m sure as shit not going to miss out on what I want because I’m afraid it might not work, or I might get screwed. I might die today too, I can’t spend all my time worried about that.
So, I’ll teach my boy how to plan, and to be aware. But I’m also going to teach him to live.
[quote]
Because clearly it’s the man’s fault in all of these situations. Right?[/quote]
Nope, you have stated over and over again, explicitly and implied it is the woman’s.
I’m trying to say, neither of the above statements are correct. It is typically both parents being fucking assholes, and putting themselves ahead of the kids.
[quote]
Hypothetical dude… You wanna sit here and try to explain to someone who doesn’t have kids? I’m sitting here trying to explain what it’s like to lose them, because your attitude shows that you haven’t experienced, or thought about this at all.[/quote]
You are falsely assuming that I haven’t thought about it. For whatever reason, because I haven’t left my wife and kidnapped my kids and ran to Spain, in your world, I’m not prepared.
Have I thought about it? Yup. She could come home tomorrow and lose her mind. I wouldn’t be caught sitting on my hands.
My approach may or may not “work”, but I have one.
Really? Because I don’t think all women are evil sluts that conspire to keep the good man down?
Thanks for calling me a “white knight”, lol. The internet, where descent human beings are disparaged and nazi flag waivers are given the benefit of the doubt.
Awesome. Trust me, given the views of some people in this thread, you can call me a white knight every day of the week.
You assume so much. You assume because I believe and trust my wife I think I’m invincible.
Keep calling me names though, it is a sure fire way to get your point across and validate it.
[quote]
Your crazy.[/quote]
And proud of it, lol.
Some people believe in a spirit in the sky and are called normal. But I believe in my marriage, and I’m a crazy white knight, ignorant of his shortcomings and imperfection…
Men are part of this two, and the decades of their actions have gotten us to this point.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
But see, I’ve been raised by teachers. I may not have kids, but I deal with kids DAILY. Many of my patients are children…and trust me, you don’t treat kids regularly without understanding their psychology…especially with what I do for a living.[/quote]
Ridiculous.
Dealing with a different child for an hour a day =/= being a parent or even come close to understanding the experience of raising a kid(s) and the roller coaster that goes along with it.
[/quote]
I didn’t say it was exactly the same, however, that job requires me to be able to associate and relate to not just ONE kid or one family, but kids from all different types of backgrounds, drug histories and cultures. It means that yeah, while I may not have the exact experience of raising a child myself, to act as if my opinion is WORTHLESS on all levels because of it is retarded.
I have insight some single parents don’t have because they only know how their own kid acts.
Quit the bullshit.
We all have different life experiences but if you deal with kids daily, you probably do have a valid opinion when the subject of kids arises.
Deal with it.
Also, if we are about to tow the line that no one here should speak about anything they don’t have direct personal experience with, then I do expect a lot less posts from a whole lot of people who are also in this thread.
This topic was about a fucking paternity test. Acting liker parents are the only ones who can voice an opinion is past stupid.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, if we are about to tow the line that no one here should speak about anything they don’t have direct personal experience with, then I do expect a lot less posts from a whole lot of people who are also in this thread.
[/quote]
Remember this in the bodybuilding forum.
I’ve passed the ‘paternity test’ many times. My kids all look just like me (I know, poor them). Strong genes.
If I found out today that one wasn’t mine, I would still love the child unconditionally. Well, maybe not the one that’s almost a teen. That one can be a pain in the ass.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Deal with it.
[/quote]
LOL! Yep-- I do. Every.single.day… with 3 kids… 24/7/365 and then some
[quote]Professor X wrote:
^good point. It is the gub’ment. I didn’t really think of it as them protecting us.
However, how often is that even happening anyway? It is a little difficult to run from child support payments lately just because of technology. Short of acting like you have no job or moving to Canada, how is someone going to get away with that?[/quote]
I know I am behind on this but had to address it.
My wifes X, owes $115,000 yes that is $115,000, he actually has a court order that this has to be paid, no matter the age of the kids. Long story. Plus their oldest has Downs so he will be with us forever.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, if we are about to tow the line that no one here should speak about anything they don’t have direct personal experience with, then I do expect a lot less posts from a whole lot of people who are also in this thread.
This topic was about a fucking paternity test. Acting liker parents are the only ones who can voice an opinion is past stupid.[/quote]
The topic has moved well past the original subject at this point, encompassing more than paternity tests, come on man. In your own words, deal with it. Broncoandy and I have had a very good discussion so far, from opposite (in some ways) sides of the table, and it has been very eye opening, for me at least.
The context I brought up the “you need to walk the walk to talk the talk” is valid and not all encompassing to the very broad subject the thread has morphed into. I made those claims in reference to people talking about how they would feel about their kids, speaking from a place where it seems from their posts, that they have no clue what it is like to hold their child in their arms.
But, to be fair:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I won’t insult people who have gone through divorces by saying I know how it feels.
[/quote]
If i’ve done this, I apologize and redact my statements in this thread on the subject.
If that invalidates everything I’ve posted in this thread for people, so be it.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I won’t insult people who have gone through divorces by saying I know how it feels.
[/quote]
If i’ve done this, I apologize and redact my statements in this thread on the subject.
If that invalidates everything I’ve posted in this thread for people, so be it.[/quote]
Dude, just a general statement-- that wasn’t directed towards you.
My father-in-law is a Vietnam combat wounded vet. I’ve known him longer than I’ve not known him. He is in fact a father to me in many ways. I would not claim, no matter how much we’ve discussed, that I could possibly have real insight on what he went through or goes through on a daily basis.
I could talk to other combat wounded Vietnam vets and relay my thoughts based on interactions with my F-i-L to them but do you think my opinion would matter? Same with parenting.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I won’t insult people who have gone through divorces by saying I know how it feels.
[/quote]
If i’ve done this, I apologize and redact my statements in this thread on the subject.
If that invalidates everything I’ve posted in this thread for people, so be it.[/quote]
Dude, just a general statement-- that wasn’t directed towards you.
My father-in-law is a Vietnam combat wounded vet. I’ve known him longer than I’ve not known him. He is in fact a father to me in many ways. I would not claim, no matter how much we’ve discussed, that I could possibly have real insight on what he went through or goes through on a daily basis.
I could talk to other combat wounded Vietnam vets and relay my thoughts based on interactions with my F-i-L to them but do you think my opinion would matter? Same with parenting. [/quote]
?
My dad is a Viet-nam vet also and almost didn’t come back alive. When he is gone, I will be the one left with the stories and the life experience orf seeing him deal with certain issues…so yeah, IN SOME ASPECTS I will be able to give some insight that others completely without that experience will not. Same as you.
What is with acting as if life experience doesn’t count unless direct involvement takes place?
Children of holocaust survivors have ZERO insight into the emotions involved?
Children of slaves were completely in the dark about what happened and should have shut the fuck up if the topic ever arose?
That makes no logical sense.
Assess the TOTAL experience of a person before you throw everything they say out the window like that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I won’t insult people who have gone through divorces by saying I know how it feels.
[/quote]
If i’ve done this, I apologize and redact my statements in this thread on the subject.
If that invalidates everything I’ve posted in this thread for people, so be it.[/quote]
Dude, just a general statement-- that wasn’t directed towards you.
My father-in-law is a Vietnam combat wounded vet. I’ve known him longer than I’ve not known him. He is in fact a father to me in many ways. I would not claim, no matter how much we’ve discussed, that I could possibly have real insight on what he went through or goes through on a daily basis.
I could talk to other combat wounded Vietnam vets and relay my thoughts based on interactions with my F-i-L to them but do you think my opinion would matter? Same with parenting. [/quote]
?
My dad is a Viet-nam vet also and almost didn’t come back alive. When he is gone, I will be the one left with the stories and the life experience orf seeing him deal with certain issues…so yeah, IN SOME ASPECTS I will be able to give some insight that others completely without that experience will not. Same as you.
What is with acting as if life experience doesn’t count unless direct involvement takes place?
Children of holocaust survivors have ZERO insight into the emotions involved?
Children of slaves were completely in the dark about what happened and should have shut the fuck up if the topic ever arose?
That makes no logical sense.
Assess the TOTAL experience of a person before you throw everything they say out the window like that.[/quote]
I don’t disagree with what you typed above.
One can have “insight” and “related life experience” but, sometimes, experience just trumps “insight”. You have “insight” on being a parent because you have parents. OK, I have “insight” into dentistry from going to the dentist.
I don’t think that anyone on these boards can take serious your claim that being a dentist and dealing with some children patients somehow is a proxy for parenting experience.
You can talk to parents and read about parenting and be near parents and children but until you’ve shouldered the burden, it just doesn’t pass the straight face test.
You can talk to 500 pound benchers and read about benching 500 pounds and be near weightlifters who bench 500 but until you’ve benched 500 pounds, it just doesn’t pass the straight face test. (or something like that).
I know that someday, you’ll make an OUTSTANDING parent. No doubt. You’re a smart and passionate dude. But to read what amounts to claims on being an authority on parenting because you have children for dental patients doesn’t hold water.
I thot this thread was about gays being parents.
boy, was I wrong.
See, who here claimed to be an authority on parenting?
Anyone?
Did anyone write that they know what it feels like to love your first born son?
No.
We were discussing parenting…which MANY OF US have insight into from many different perspectives.
What you all essentially did in this thread was try to shut down any and all opinions other than your own based ONLY if the person had children or not.
Steely has this completely nailed.
Being around and interacting with kids improves your comfort level and ability to interact with these little, foreign beings called kids. Beyond that, it in no way prepares you for or gives you true insight into the highs, lows and sometimes grinding responsibility of parenthood.
I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What you all essentially did in this thread was try to shut down any and all opinions other than your own based ONLY if the person had children or not.[/quote]
That wasn’t the intent, if that is the way it was construed or stated so be it.
But, whatever. Anyone can speak on what it feels like to be a parent and what they would do for their kids, parent or not.
This means a lot less to me in the context of this thread, than the ability to talk about it does to you apparently.
So yes, hence forth, IMO everyone understands what it is like to be a dad or a mom. Yup.