xMillertimex:
the reason there aren’t a lot of post-conventional people in the world is because there are so many pre-conventional people who will shoot them for whatever reason they choose
it’s not about letting other people kill for you, it’s about working to abolish the need to kill at all – killing the killers does not solve the problem, just makes them martyrs with a lot more power than they ever had while alive
–Bill
By the way, it sickens me that the right wingers who are glorifying Pat Tillman are the same assholes who are trying to say that John Kerry doesn’t deserve his medals.
SICK!!!
Lumpy:
Do you know how to stay on topic? Or does the only track in your mind run an endless playback on the variation of “Right-wing evil; Bush lied!”?
Anyone who can’t appreciate Saddam’s ass out of power doesn’t realize what these soilder’s have done for us. It easy to say that Tillman didn’t die directly for each individual. It’s the combonation of all the troops that have sacfriced their lives for us, that protects each individual. So quickly people forget the helpless feeling of 9/11. Tillman is a hero that he was so moved by the actions of 9/11, he wanted to defend his country. When I read Rene’s article, I think 2 things.
Lumpy, once again you distort the facts. Kerry is categorized the way he is because he came back from vietnam and joined the likes of Jane Fonda and people who plotted to kill pro war senators. Sounds like the kind of guy i would like to be president. Kerry cant even decided what type of syrup he wants on his pancakes in the morning. Hes on both side of every issue.
SICK!!!
I’m not distorting anything. The sleazebags in the Republican attack machine are smearing Kerry and saying that he doesn’t deserve some of his medals. I think that is revolting, especially when you consider that during that time the only thing George Bush did was drink beer and snort coke.
These are the same right wing extremist sickos in the Republican party who are responsible for smearing John McCain during the 2000 GOP primary.
Go ahead and honor Pat Tillman, but if you can’t grant Kerry some respect for earning his medals, then you are a hypocrite.
I don’t know why moderate Republicans and true conservatives tolerate the dirty tricks and hypocrisy of the extremists in their party.
To the Tillman Family:
In the off chance that you come across this thread. I want you to know that all Real Americans honor your sons’ sacrifice. We feel your loss. Mr. Tillman was our brother and we grieve with you. Please know that he will not be forgotten.
Cupcake,
I appreciate your sincerity. Your comments about Canada were very honest. Please remember there are some very simple principles at work here. Remember, that because they are simple, does not necessarily mean that they are wrong.
A. America has been attacked.
B. Tyrants respond to strength.
C. Canada has the luxury of the protection of American Military Might.
D. The media misrepresents issues on a daily basis in order to make news. (This includes what the Average American thinks and looks like).
E. Standing below your flag and fighting for what you believe is noteworthy and courageous.
F. History remembers the bold and the resolute.
G. Jingooism is a metaphor that you apply far too broadly. Pride in country does not necessarily make you a “sheepie.”
H. One vial of ricin could kill everyone in Washington D.C. (Or Montreal, if you wish).
I. 9/11 is all the warning we are going to get. I’m sorry if you are uncomfortable with our paridigm shift, but preemption is necessary to stop that vial of ricin.
J. Pat Tillman was an American Hero.
K. France, Germany, and Russia were being willingly bribed by Saddam.
L. Deterrance works. Fighting bravely in Iraq may allow us not to fight in Syria or North Korea. We already will not have to fight in Tripoli.
Thanks for your honesty. But please remember, you are only able to express your views because we are cutting away a present and future cancer from the world. Put your head in the sand if you wish, but please thank the Coalition of the Willing that you are not regurgitating your lungs from the poision cloud.
Us=…I mean Moistu…um…ah…I mean “Beefpie”… yeah, this one is pretty transparent too…lets just say that you have a certain…“style”
I won’t tell if you wont…
I own an apology it seems. My efforts to drag this discussion from the dregs of a barroom brannigan of “was to, was not and you are a poopie head for disagreeing with me” was misguided and evidently lost on those who still cling to a primordial need to bash that which is in defiance of their thought. No one wants to discuss anything beyond the nationalist elements and patriotic perspective, fair enough.
The way I see the world is obviously different from many, I see my thoughts and opinions as those of a line in the sand, discernable and real but at the same time open to be blown over by new perspective and the winds of time. Others would entrench their opinions by digging deeper and deeper till a ditch is dug that resists the filling and changing effects of reason and critical thought. They would call it “conviction” and have you believe that it is a virtue that requires courage. I suppose that in my world where I have chosen no left or no right but where thought is required on every issue I have to find my way anew each time as there is no rut of ideology to guide me.
I am as happy to be out of the rut, as you are happy to be in it. No harm, no foul, to each his own…please continue with your mission, I will endeavour to keep my opinions (unless they fall into what seems to be a uniquely American system of one of only two “camps”) to myself.
I surely wouldn’t want to upset the apple cart with the idea that the truth sometime lies in the middle.
As for your comments?..all fair as well but…
“The media misrepresents issues on a daily basis in order to make news. (This includes what the Average American thinks and looks like).”
This was my only real point… really (aside from giving the Dolphins a go with the thumb thing)…I see you got it, good.
and…
“Jingooism is a metaphor that you apply far too broadly.”
Jingoism is not a “metaphor” , it simply a word that describes a person who favours extreme Nationalism (kinda like you…no offence). Whilst I appreciate your assistance with my language skills, I have repeatedly found them to be more than adequate. Further extension of your grace in this matter in not required.
“It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind”
~ Voltaire
Here is one thing. Even if GWB smoked crack every day in the White House, he would be better than John Kerry.
Here is what Democrats do.
I want none of those. With Bush you know what you are getting. He says something and he does it. Every military person I have ever talked to respect George Bush over Bill Clinton and John Kerry. I live in a military town. The Rangers are trained here. Pat Tillman trained here. Hell i probably passed him on the road or in the mall once or twice.
I do respect John Kerry for going. I also know that he put in for deferments and only joined the Navy when he knew he would have to go. Didnt exactly go willingly did he? That is besides the point however. What he did when he came back is what bothers me. The groups he associated with,throwing the metals, etc. Vietnam was a very bad time. However I do agree with the premise for being there.
John Kerry requested active duty, he did not ask for any deferrmnents. After his first hitch was up he signed up again.
Here’s what Bush does (I will not paint true conservatives with this brush):
Oversees runaway discretionary (non-essential) spending, higher than any other modern Democratic president.
First president in history to give a tax cut (to the wealthiest 1% of Americans) during a time of war. This is unprecedented.
Will not take responsibility for his own failures, or hold anyone in his administration accountable for their failures (example: not one person fired or disciplined after dismal 9-11 performance.
Thinks he talks to God, and that God steered him into Iraq invasion and other major decisions.
Opens up the the restictions on Mexican immigration, resulting in a 40% jump in Mexican border crossings this year.
Openly insults our allies, when we actually need their help (“Old Europe” comments, etc)
Launched a pre-emptive (and premature) attack on another sovereign nation, in violation of international law, and contrary to American traditions and values
Is an East Coast blue blood who puts on a cowboy act and somehow actually fools people into thinking he is a rancher.
Surrounds himself with incompetent people who bicker with each other.
Can barely read, or speak in complete sentences.
Did nothing when notified that America was under attack, he sat in a classroom and read from a children’s book for an additional 25 minutes. Then he flew to Nebraska (or was it Oklahoma) and hid for the next 9 hours.
Invited a member of the Saudi royal family to review our Iraq invasion war plans, despite the fact that they were classified information
Fought tooth and nail against an independant investigation into 9-11 for 7 months. Then stonewalled the commission on crucial documents, making their job impossible
Is already running attack ads, because he has no record to run on, and doesn’t have a positive message or plan (besides the Mars thing and getting steroids out of baseball)
Runs the most inept and arrogant foreign policy in modern history, one that even Republicans think is a disaster (see Powell’s comments about his need to travel around the world apologizing for Bush)
Has gutted clean air and clean water safeguards, and other environmental protections, the first president in 30 years to actually go backwards on cleaning up the environment
Wants to meddle with the US Constitition, to actually take rights away from citizens, rather than protect their rights
Blatantly ignored CIA and Army recommendations on the Iraq invasion and post war plans (troop strength requirements, post war security, etc) Read the article “Blind into Baghdad” do a Google search, for the details.
The first president in modern history who was appointed, not elected.
Promised to “change the tone in Washington” and "Be a ‘uniter, not a divider’. Instead he has ramrodded through an ultraconservative agenda and we are currently under a one-party system with no checks and balances.
Bush let Bin Laden escape in Tora Bora, US troops had him surrounded and trapped. Bush lacked the will to commit ground troops and Bin Laden escaped into the countryside.
The most important person to the Bush administration is Bill Clinton… even four years later. Anything bad can be blamed on Clinton when you don’t have a spine of your own. 9-11 was Clinton’s fault according to Bush, even though it happened 9 months into Bush’s presiency, and he was warned ahead of time. However, the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 happened only 38 days into the Clinton presidency, yet he didn’t blame George Bush the 1st, did he? Notice a difference there? Clinton sucked it up like a man, and he caught the bombers and they are all serving a life sentence. Nobody blamed everything on the previous adminmistration, like the pussies in this administration do.
Here’s a good George Bush joke:
There’s a baseball game, and Bill is playing center field. A fly ball gets hit to him and Bill drops it. The coach gets pissed. “George, get out there and take over in center field” he shouts. Bill comes in and sits on the bench.
The very next play, another fly ball is hit to center field, and George drops the ball. The coach explodes. “Goddammit George, what the hell are you doing out there?”
George says “Coach, Bill messed up center field so bad that NOBODY can play it!”
Gberg,
The reason “others” want to kill “you”, the reason other nations have a problem with Americans, are the exact things G.Bush stands for. Nobody likes a bully. The whole war has been justified as a “goodwill” by the U.S. for the people of Iraq. What about the people of several African nations? The innocent millions who have and are dying from the AIDS epidemic. What has the U.S. done to help them? Here are people who WANT the Americans to intrude in their daily lives. The amount of money being spent in the current war could have provided enough assistance and medicine to probably wipe out an entire epidemic. You don’t think that will improve the image of the U.S. around the world, especially with those who want to kill you? You can bet your ass it would. So why doesn’t the U.S. step in?–Because they have nothing to gain from the African nations. It is so blatantly obvious. The war in Iraq is only for the future economic gain of the U.S. and to feed the “power trip” of it’s leaders. They don’t give a rats ass for the Iraqi people(as they say), or the people of any foreign nations for that matter. Wake up!!
I’m Canadian so I’m able to look at the situation from the outside without letting my “national pride” get in the way of what is obvious to others. Canadians are respected EVERYWHERE around the world. This is a known fact and can be seen on the backpacks of many American youth travelling abroad. Why is this so when our cultures are so alike? Simply because we don’t suffer from the “Global Greed” that takes over much of the U.S. policy. We don’t think of ourselves as the best. We have pride in our Country and our culture. There is nothing wrong with that. However, the U.S. takes it to another level. There is a difference between pride and confidence compared with cockiness. The world doesn’t view the U.S. as proud and good, they view them as cocky and bullyish. This view is reflective upon the actions and beliefs of the very people who are running your government.
Loopfit,
I’m going to keep this very respectful so I do not get censored.
Please read George W. Bush’s State of the Union address in 2003. $15,000,000 free aid for the African AIDS epidemic. By the way, what is Canada doing?
Over $125,000,000 billion spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. Revenues gained/asked for against that balance $0.00. Yes, we are financing Halliburton as well. That comes out of that.
I respect some Canadians as well. However, if you made the tough calls you would take the heat.
If we were trully a “bully” you would not be talking right now. The entire Middle East would be ours. If you were an ancient Roman and the Celts had made an assault on Trans-Alpine Gaul (like 9/11) the Romans would have invaded the entire country, subjugated the population, and made it into a colony. We will leave.
I hope that my tone is respectful.
Twinky:
You
Are… so… intellectual! I haven’t heard such interesting discourse since
the forum last
discussed your flame(r) shirt. I love the condescension, and all the unneccessary spaces.
“Seen the pictures. Needed: More lift-y. Less type-y.” – Pansy
Thanks for your honesty. But please remember, you are only able to express your views because we are cutting away a present and future cancer from the world. Put your head in the sand if you wish, but please thank the Coalition of the Willing that you are not regurgitating your lungs from the poision cloud.
Hahahahahahahah!
Thanks for the laugh man, that is priceless. The only reason anyone would want to use ricin on Canada is that we are on good terms with the US.
Canada is a poor nation compared to the U.S. but we do what we can to help. Did we make a mistake for not going into Iraq? Our reasoning was that there was no proof of WMDs and relation to terrorists and of course, we were later proven correct. We didn’t just bully our way in there without valid proof. Are our troops in Afganistan? You betcha. We want to help with bringing those responsible for 9/11 to justice, but it has yet to be proven that anyone in Iraq had any relation with this.
As for the African AIDS situation, you should know that we are the only nation providing affordable drugs to them. The U.S. drug companies charge WAY more for the same drugs. Why? Greed i guess. What form of aid are the Americans providing in the amount you mentioned? What they need are the drugs which they are not recieving. How much money is being spent on the Iraq war? I bet the daily amount exceeds the total they have alotted for the AIDS epidemic. Which is more important on a Global scale? Which has more “benefit” for the U.S.? It’s pretty obvious what’s going on.
Pantywaist:
I am sorry that my manner of speech comes across as condescending or reaching for pseudo-intellectual heights. It is important that valuable members of these forums help each other to make sure that our contributions maintain at least a hairs breadth distance from the value of phlegm laced spittle so that the boards don’t get all plugged up with the prattle of argumentative mouth-breathers.
Thank you for your assistance.
“We haven’t seen your pictures…and we won’t because you have the body of a 14 year old girl…less hate, more Iron girlyboy” ~ Cake