Panzerfaust vs

Training Training Logs
101

03-09-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 3 . Week 3 . Day 2

Squat
1 x 5 x 50kg
1 x 5 x 62.5kg
1 x 3 x 75kg
1 x 3 x 87.5kg
1 x 3 x 100kg
1 x 1 x 112.5kg
1 x 1 x 125kg

1 x 5 x 135kg (Joker Set)
1 x 2 x 145kg (Joker Set)
1 x 2 x 150kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 155kg (Joker Set)

*No down sets

Straight Leg Deadlift (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 5 x 65kg
1 x 5 x 75kg
1 x 5 x 85kg

Abs
Weighted Situps 2 x 15 x 15kg
Side Bends 2 x 15 x 20kg

Intraset Sheeyit etc
60 Calf Raises
Quad Stretches
Glute Stretches

Notes

-Decided to rep out the Joker Set and then did some doubles. Skipped Down Sets as my knee was sketchy.

-Felt really good about my squatting for a change; usually I dislike it haha. I feel I am starting to get into a decent setup and reaching depth easily. Looks like the stretching is working.

-BW 91.6kg

102

I may try an approach of ensuring I het at least 10 reps at my final Work Set weight or heavier. Similar to how I ensure I get at least 5 reps at or above 180kg on Deadlift day.

The Joker Sets really are great for programming in little goals like this.

103

06-08-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 3 . Week 3 . Day 3

Overhead Press
1 x 5 x 25kg
1 x 5 x 32.5kg
1 x 3 x 40kg
1 x 1 x 45kg
1 x 1 x 52.5kg
1 x 1 x 57.5kg
1 x 1 x 65kg

1 x 1 x 45kg
1 x 1 x 52.5kg
1 x 1 x 57.5kg
1 x 1 x 65kg

1 x 1 x 45kg
1 x 1 x 52.5kg
1 x 1 x 57.5kg
1 x 1 x 65kg

1 x 1 x 67.5kg (Joker Set)

Close Grip Bench Press(Progammed Assistance)
1 x 5 x 60kg
1 x 5 x 70kg
1 x 5 x 77.5kg

Supersetted with:

Dead-Stop Hip Row
3 x 10 x 25kg

Weighted Pull Up
Didn’t do, due to elbow strain.

Intraset Sheeyit etc
60 Band Pullaparts
30 Facepulls
30 Internal and External Rotations

Notes

-Had 4 hours sleep and woke up feeling flu-ridden, so I did the “Having a bad day option” which has you repeat the work sets at minimum reps 3 times.

-Was good to sweat out some misery.

-Feeling a bit better now after a decent sleep haha.

104

Bodyweight: 90.9kg… not far to go!

105

**Turns out I didn’t manage to sweat out the flu on Press day, so I am in death mode. Hopefully will be well enough to start Cycle 4 tomorrow. I won’t bother with the Deadlift day I missed as it would fuck up my pattern.

106

I picked up Beyond 5/3/1 a couple of weeks ago and I was hoping you could help with a couple of questions.

When I use 85% to calculate my training max, I end up with vastly different rep ranges for my bench and deadlift.

For my bench, I can only get 4 reps on a good day, 3 on an average day.
For deadlift, I can get 8+ with 85% and 6 with 90%. It’s weird, I can add 10 lbs to the bar and I go from 6 reps to only being able to get singles.

For bench, I’m worried that even a 5 lb jump after 3 weeks will be too much and quickly catch up to me and I’ll soon only be doing singles for my TM set, which doesn’t seem to follow along with the program. I’m thinking about lowering my TM to 75% to get me into the 6 rep range.

For deadlift, I don’t really want to go above 6 reps, so I’m considering just capping my sets at 6 reps and then pushing the Jokers and and down sets. I thought about raising my TM, but that doesn’t leave me any room for Jokers.

How does this sound to you?

Thanks!

Ben

107

[quote]Tougher wrote:
I picked up Beyond 5/3/1 a couple of weeks ago and I was hoping you could help with a couple of questions.

(1)
When I use 85% to calculate my training max, I end up with vastly different rep ranges for my bench and deadlift.

(2)
For my bench, I can only get 4 reps on a good day, 3 on an average day.

For deadlift, I can get 8+ with 85% and 6 with 90%. It’s weird, I can add 10 lbs to the bar and I go from 6 reps to only being able to get singles.

(3)
For bench, I’m worried that even a 5 lb jump after 3 weeks will be too much and quickly catch up to me and I’ll soon only be doing singles for my TM set, which doesn’t seem to follow along with the program. I’m thinking about lowering my TM to 75% to get me into the 6 rep range.

(4)
For deadlift, I don’t really want to go above 6 reps, so I’m considering just capping my sets at 6 reps and then pushing the Jokers and and down sets. I thought about raising my TM, but that doesn’t leave me any room for Jokers.

How does this sound to you?

Thanks!

Ben

[/quote]

Hey bro, I’m no expert but I will do my best to answer your questions.

(1)
-How accurate/recent were your 1RM lifts you used to calculate the program: did you base them on actual 1RM, Calculated Rep Maxes, or Guesses?

-My initial suspicion would be you used your absolute 1RM to calculate the Bench Press, and underestimated your strength for Deadlift.

-Are you 100% sure you got the program calculated correctly:
Everyday Max x .85 = Training Max. Then you may work up to your Everyday Max through Joker Sets.

(2)
How many cycles have you completed?
From memory, 3 Cycles in, the most reps I have got on my final Bench Press or Press set is 5 reps.
I’ve managed more on my Deadlift and Squat but I am operating them on a far lower max.

(3)
Don’t worry about bad stuff happening until bad stuff happens! If you are getting more than 1 rep for your final work set each week, keep at it. Once you actually stall dead, then reset your lift and work back up.

(4)
That is pretty much what I do. I’ve never repped more than 7 times on my final Deadlift set. I like to do triples and doubles and singles for the Jokers. Remember you can always use the Joker for your PR set if you wish to.

Have you gained or lost weight, what level are your lifts currently at, do you have any injuries, etc etc… lots of variables to consider.

108

Just as an aside, I joined Jim Wendler’s forum and one topic which jumped out is performing X number of cycles, then count back X and reset…

Example:

400 1RM Squat x .85 = Training Max:
C1 = 340
C2 = 350
C3 = 360
C4 = 370
C5 = 380
C6 = 360
C7 = 370
C8 = 380
C9 = 390
C10 = 400
C11 = 380
C12 = 390
C13 = 400
C14 = 410
C15 = 420

etc… there were various forward/back intervals suggested.

A nice longterm way to approach your training. I’m thinking of trying this.

109

10-09-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 4 . Week 1 . Day 1

Bench Press
1 x 5 x 42.5kg
1 x 3 x 52.5kg
1 x 3 x 62.5kg
1 x 3 x 72.5kg
1 x 3 x 85kg
1 x 1 x 95kg
1 x 2 x 105kg

1 x 1 x 110kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 107.5kg (Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 105kg (Joker Set)

5 x 5 x 72.5kg (Down Sets)

Incline Bench Press (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 37.5kg
1 x 10 x 45kg
1 x 10 x 52.5kg

Chest Supported DB Row (supersetted with Incline Bench)
3 x 12 x 25kg

Dumbbell Bicep Curl
10kg x 10, 10, 10

Decline Dumbbell Triceps Extension
10kg x 10, 10, 10

Intraset Bands etc
25 Hammer Chins
60 Band Pullaparts
30 Band Facepulls
30 Internal Rotations
30 External Rotations
Quad Stretches

Notes

-Still pretty sick so I was happy to just get this day completed. I felt weak as predicted, but managed to get in 5 reps at or above my Training Max so I will take that and call it a day well spent.

-Trying to learn how to tuck my elbows on bench. Didn’t realise you are supposed to consciously rotate them inwards slightly before descent. Felt weird as.

-I’m pretty much accustomed to the flat foot stance now, though I do have to more consciously use leg drive.

110

Thanks for the advice.

  1. You’re right, I used my actual max to calculate my training maxes. My AM for bench is 315 lbs, but my everyday max is 295-300. These give TMs of 265 and 255. I think I should be using my everyday max like you said.

My deadlift is different though. My AM is 430, but my everyday max is only 405. These give TMs of 365 and 345. I’m good for 6-8 with 365, so I think I’ll keep using that number, cap my reps and then go for doubles after that.

  1. I’m still in my first cycle. This is why I was worried about my bench reps being low already. That being said, looking over my training the past couple of months, my bench is all over the place. One week I get 2 with 265, another week I get 3 with 275, another week I get 4 with 285, and another I only get 1 with 265. A lot has to do with who I’m training with. Sometimes I train solo (no spot), sometime using a bigger guy in the gym for a spot, sometimes with a guy just starting out (not 100% trust on the spot), and other times with a competitive powerlifter. I also sometimes train in the morning, sometimes at night (shift work).

The last two weeks, I’ve been solo and with the new guy, and also training in the evening, so I guess that could play into why the rep numbers were low. I guess this is where some auto regulation comes in and going for rep PRs when I get the chance, but not stressing if I have to use one of the plans for when not having a great day.

My weight’s holding steady and I don’t have any injuries. As mentioned above, there are variables that change week to week and I’ve recently really been trying to be conscious about that when I get or miss a PR.

Thanks again for the help.

111

[quote]Tougher wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

  1. You’re right, I used my actual max to calculate my training maxes. My AM for bench is 315 lbs, but my everyday max is 295-300. These give TMs of 265 and 255. I think I should be using my everyday max like you said.

My deadlift is different though. My AM is 430, but my everyday max is only 405. These give TMs of 365 and 345. I’m good for 6-8 with 365, so I think I’ll keep using that number, cap my reps and then go for doubles after that.

  1. I’m still in my first cycle. This is why I was worried about my bench reps being low already. That being said, looking over my training the past couple of months, my bench is all over the place. One week I get 2 with 265, another week I get 3 with 275, another week I get 4 with 285, and another I only get 1 with 265. A lot has to do with who I’m training with. Sometimes I train solo (no spot), sometime using a bigger guy in the gym for a spot, sometimes with a guy just starting out (not 100% trust on the spot), and other times with a competitive powerlifter. I also sometimes train in the morning, sometimes at night (shift work).

The last two weeks, I’ve been solo and with the new guy, and also training in the evening, so I guess that could play into why the rep numbers were low. I guess this is where some auto regulation comes in and going for rep PRs when I get the chance, but not stressing if I have to use one of the plans for when not having a great day.

My weight’s holding steady and I don’t have any injuries. As mentioned above, there are variables that change week to week and I’ve recently really been trying to be conscious about that when I get or miss a PR.

Thanks again for the help.[/quote]

No worries bro.

Yeah I wish I’d used my everyday max for bench also, but I didn’t and I hate the idea of regressing so I will just grin and bear it haha. My bench sucks so the heavier work is probably good anyway.

Time of day (and subsequently diet…) and atmosphere definitely play a part for me. I train late at night, by myself, tired and shitty. Therefore I’d like to add 10% Hypothetical Internet Strength to all my lifts haha.
But yes I agree this could explain your fluctuating numbers.

One question I do have for my own purposes: What is your accessory routine?

112

As far as accessories go, the following are usually done after the main sets, joker sets, and 5 down sets. The exeption is deadlift day were I may only do 1-3 down sets. These are a general guideline I use. I try and change things up based on if I’m training a couple days in a row or if I have a rest day or two coming up, if I have a lot of energy or if I’m tired, etc.

Deadlift:
Paused front squats (5 sets 5-6 reps)
BB hip thrusts (3 sets 10 reps)
Abs

Bench:
Behind the neck, snatch grip overhead press (3 sets 5 reps
DB floor press (3 sets 10 reps)
Inverted row/tri exercise superset (3 sets 15-20 reps)
Abs

Squat:
Step ups or lunges (3 sets 10 reps)
GHR (3 sets 10 reps)
Back extensions (2 sets 15 reps)

OHP:
Close grip bench press (5 sets 6-8 reps)
Some sort of rowing movement (5 sets 8-10 reps)
High reps tri work
Abs

113

12-09-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 4 . Week 1 . Day 1

Squat
1 x 5 x 52.5kg
1 x 5 x 65kg
1 x 3 x 77.5kg
1 x 3 x 90kg
1 x 3 x 105kg
1 x 1 x 117.5kg
1 x 4 x 130kg

1 x 2 x 140kg(Joker Set)
1 x 1 x 145kg (Joker Set)

3 x 5 x 90kg (Down Sets)

Straight Leg Deadlift (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 52.5kg
1 x 10 x 62.5kg
1 x 10 x 72.5kg

Abs
Weighted Situps 2 x 15 x 15kg
Side Bends 2 x 15 x 20kg

Intraset Sheeyit etc
15 Box Jumps
20 Wide Grip Pullups
50 Calf Raises
Quad Stretches
Glute Stretches

Notes

-Still recovering from the flu and trying to learn to leave a rep or two in the tank and make sure I hit good depth on all reps.

-I’ve added box jumps between my warm up squat sets to get blood flowing.

114

Righty, time to update this Mofo.

115

My flu re-surged and I ended up in a hell of a mess. Still carrying a bit of lurg now, but I trained every day last week (restarted the cycle after missing two days of the first week) and I am slowly chipping away :).

16-09-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 4 . Week 1 . Day 1

Bench Press
1 x 5 x 42.5kg
1 x 3 x 52.5kg
1 x 3 x 62.5kg
1 x 3 x 72.5kg
1 x 3 x 85kg
1 x 1 x 95kg
1 x 3 x 105kg

1 x 1 x 110kg (Joker Set)
1 x 2 x 105kg (Joker Set)

3 x 5 x 82.5kg (Down Sets)

Incline Bench Press (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 37.5kg
1 x 10 x 45kg
1 x 10 x 52.5kg

Chest Supported DB Row (supersetted with Incline Bench)
3 x 10 x 25kg

Dumbbell Bicep Curl
10kg x 10, 10, 10

Decline Dumbbell Triceps Extension
10kg x 10, 10, 10

Intraset Bands etc
15 Hammer Chins
60 Band Pullaparts
30 Band Facepulls
30 Internal Rotations
30 External Rotations
Quad Stretches

Notes:
-Managed one more rep than the first week.

-Still trying to decide on the best setup for me, but I definitely am sticking with feet flat; love the stability.

-Increased down set weights to 70% of actual max. Will do some kind of 3 x 5 progression week to week.

116

17-09-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 4 . Week 1 . Day 2

Squat
1 x 5 x 52.5kg
1 x 5 x 65kg
1 x 3 x 77.5kg
1 x 3 x 90kg
1 x 3 x 105kg
1 x 1 x 117.5kg
1 x 5 x 130kg

1 x 5 x 140kg(Joker Set)

Straight Leg Deadlift (Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 52.5kg
1 x 10 x 62.5kg
1 x 10 x 72.5kg

Abs
Weighted Situps 3 x 10 x 15kg
Side Bends 2 x 15 x 20kg

Intraset Sheeyit etc
20 Wide Grip Pullups
50 Calf Raises
Quad Stretches
Glute Stretches

Notes

-Managed a set of 5 at 140kg as a joker set. Not sure what was up here, kind of felt like my warm ups weren’t sufficient and my work set actually became a warm up? Anywho.

117

19-09-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 4 . Week 1 . Day 3

Overhead Press
1 x 5 x 27.5kg
1 x 5 x 35kg
1 x 3 x 40kg
1 x 3 x 47.5kg
1 x 3 x 55kg
1 x 1 x 60kg
1 x 3 x 67.5kg (rep PR)

3 x 5 x 52.5kg (Down Sets)

Close Grip Bench Press(Progammed Assistance)
1 x 10 x 47.5kg
1 x 10 x 57.5kg
1 x 10 x 67.5kg

Supersetted with:

Dead-Stop Hip Row
3 x 10 x 25kg

Intraset Sheeyit etc
60 Band Pullaparts
30 Facepulls
30 Internal and External Rotations

Notes

-Pretty happy with the rep PR, didn’t do any joker sets.

-Increased the weight of down sets and aiming for 3 x 5 weekly progression, similar to bench.

118

20-09-13
Beyond 5/3/1
Cycle 4 . Week 1 . Day 4

Deadlift
1 x 5 x 75kg
1 x 5 x 92.5kg
1 x 3 x 110kg
1 x 3 x 130kg
1 x 3 x 147.5kg
1 x 1 x 167.5kg
3 x 1 x 185kg

50 Calf Raises
Quad Stretches
Glute Stretches

Notes

-Was running short on time (sister’s birthday dinner) so I simply did 3 singles at top Work Set, then bailed. Felt like utter shit, so this was likely a good option.

119

Wendler quote regarding this program, in response to questions about how advanced you must be to run it:

[quote]
I say “advanced lifters only” to avoid the endless “assistance work” and “clean bulk” or “I’m doin’ a cut, bro” questions.
If you’ve got experience and know how to read your body, you can do this program. Give it a shot - this has been a long time in the making and I am fucking proud of this. [/quote]

Regarding down sets:

Note to anyone who hasn’t read the manual: There is no assistance guideline as the idea is to know your body and program + train accordingly.

I’m starting to ponder if the Big Assistance lifts are too much for this program. After WS (PR), JS and DS, I am finding it hard to complete any assistance beyond body weight, band, single joint shit. Feeling fried quite often and health has been a bit sketchy.

I am thinking I may go hard nuts at the main lifts for a bit, and only do minimal assistance. Maybe each week do the Big Four plus two other biggish assistance lifts, rather than Four intense ones. Will do a bit of pondering anyway.

I must note, while I am not hitting particularly amazing numbers or regular PRs, I have been on my first real “lean-down” crusade. Currently sitting on 90.0kg, which is around 7kg down. I started this program and the weight reduction at the same time, about 14 weeks ago. I realise Beyond 531, as with most Wendler programs, is not recommended for “People on a cut” … but hey fuck it. I was feeling fat and looking like shit… have been single for longer than ideal, my waist measurement put me in the “unhealthy” category for my height, and really I’m feeling a fuckload better with my current progress in leaning out. I’m dropping an average of 400g per week so it’s not like I’m starving myself.

Pretty much, I love this program and don’t care if it’s not ideal to do while losing fat. It’s keeping me motivated and my lifts are not getting weaker, so maybe it’s fine for this purpose?

My ambition is simple:
Lose 2kg more to reach my goal weight. Hopefully in 4-6 weeks.
Then increase my eating to slightly over maintenance, and start reaping the true benefits of what I consider to be a fantastic program, gaining strength and slowly adding clean weight to my frame.
A few months of not setting PRs in exchange for feeling and looking healthy = fine trade off by me.

/rant. Loving this shit.

120

Hey panzerfaust,

I ran across your thread and about a year ago you gave me some good advice on my training, so I thought it would interesting to follow you log. Plus, I bought Beyond 5/3/1 a couple months ago so I thought this would definitely be a good log to follow.

I myself have not tried the Beyond variation but am messing with the Strength Phase while using Joker Sets and Last Set First. It would be awesome to get your feedback as well. Although I probably won’t have any updates until next week as this week is just going to be a deload.

My log: Jay's 5/3/1 Strength Phase - Training Logs - Forums - T Nation