P, C, & Fat % Ratio for Fat Loss?

Nutrition
61

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
It does help psychologically, yes, and it doesn’t hinder a person’s progress. One meal will not negate 34. If it does, the problem doesn’t lie in the cheat/treat/free meal … it lies in the diet itself.
[/quote]

Yes, one cheat meal would not negate the other 34 meals. However, Let’s say that for that one meal, I overeat by 1750 cal, and bad calories at that (can eat “whatever” right?), doesn’t that mean I’ve gained 1/2 pound back? And, since we’re aiming at losing about a pound a week with our diet, wouldn’t that be “taking half a step back”? Does this mean that we’re actually aiming at 1 1/2 pound loss per week after accounting for the 1/2 pound we’d gain back from the cheat meal?

Well, maybe it’s not as straight-forward as the calculation above, since I’d imagine the body is smarter about handling a specific event like a once-a-week cheat meal. I just don’t see how a cheat meal would have no detrimental effect at all, albeit probably a small effect compared to the rest of the diet.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
I’d actually encourage you to allow yourself one meal a week, too, jthsiao. The only “rule” is that you’re not allowed to jump on the scale the next day. (grin)
[/quote]

The not jumping on the scale is probably a good advice. I usually weigh myself on Sunday mornings. This way, I can adjust my calories and plan my portions for the upcoming week. Having a cheat meal on Sundays would still make sense for me, since I’ve just weighed myself that morning and wouldn’t do so again 'til the next Sunday.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Having a cheat/treat/free meal isn’t a breakdown or a lack of discipline. It’s a planned-for event. Personally, I like to have my cheat/treat/free meal at the end of the day. When I wake up the next morning, I’m back on track, following my plan.

Properly done, a cheat/treat/free meal puts the “quality” back into “quality of life.”
[/quote]

As mentioned above, I’m still a bit iffy about the cheat meal idea. For someone who needs the psychological relief and/or socializing event, I think it’s a good idea.

How about as an alternative to an all-out cheat meal, have “cheat meals” the way Chris Shugart prescribed in his Velocity Diet? That is, have a sensible meal with good macro combinations depending on the time of day and the activities around the meal, and adjust your diet around your planned “cheat meal”? Wouldn’t that also add some variety into one’s life without “taking half a step back”?

62

[quote]jthsiao wrote:

How about as an alternative to an all-out cheat meal, have “cheat meals” the way Chris Shugart prescribed in his Velocity Diet? That is, have a sensible meal with good macro combinations depending on the time of day and the activities around the meal, and adjust your diet around your planned “cheat meal”? Wouldn’t that also add some variety into one’s life without “taking half a step back”?[/quote]

In my opinion, nothing goes up/down in a straight line. Three steps forward and two steps back is my No.1 rule. It’s all about stress and recovery. Diet = stress, Cheat meal = recovery. The idea is not to get burned out.

By the way, has anybody heard of Onagra? no, not viagra.
Why are bodybuilders so eager on eating so many berries? Is it the antioxidants?

63

It’s a personal choice, jthsiao. It might not be something you want to include into your plan. My diet (how I eat, not necessarily that I’m eating at a caloric deficit) for me is a lifestyle.

I eat with discipline during the week, and I really enjoy the pizza I have or the party or buffet I go to. Even though I don’t count/measure/weigh what I’m eating, I can pretty well assure you that I don’t eat 1700 calories in one sitting. If you can, I’m really impressed! (grin)

I’m in this for the long haul, jthsiao. So yes, if I had to eat with a little more discipline during the week so that i could relax and have a glass of wine and eat something I missed or really enjoyed that just isn’t on my plan, I don’t mind. And I and the people I’ve designed diets for (and whose progress I tracked over long periods of time) do generally make steady progress towards their goals.

You were very intuitive on one thing you said, about it not being as straight-forward as the equation above. There’s actually something called the Thermic Effect of Food (or Feeding). Have you ever eaten a big meal and started sweating? Some of what you eat is “wasted” in that way. Glycogen stores are refilled. As much as we’d like to believe it, calories in don’t always match calories out … or calories stored, as the case may be. (grin)

Some people are AFRAID of cheat/treat/free meals. They’re afraid that if they start, they won’t be able to stop. There are work-arounds to that one, too. In fact I’ve made the counter-intuitive argument that having a cheat/treat meal PROVES you have rigid self control and that YOU are in control of what you’re eating and not the other way around. (grin)

Cheat/treat meals can be a lot of fun, even if you’re a person who likes to stay rigidly under control. What are some of the things that don’t quite fit into my way of eating?

  • a bagel & lox w/ cream cheese
  • spaghetti
  • pizza
  • hamburger all the way
  • going to the fair w/ all the wonderful fair food that bring back memories of my youth!
  • home made raisin bran muffins
  • peanut butter & jelly sandwiches

Maybe you don’t feel a need to go hog wild, but wouldn’t it be fun to take your wife out on a date and have a beer or glass of wine, an appetizer, a meal and share a dessert … and not have to count or combine macronutrients? (grin)

Okay, if I haven’t made persuasive argument, you don’t have to have a cheat/treat/free meal, jthsiao. But if there is somtime or something you want to enjoy, just tell your wife or friends or whoever you’re with at the time that it’s “doctor’s orders” and a part of your plan. (grin)

64

Onagra is known over here as Evening Primrose Oil (EPO). It’s a rich source of the long-chain fatty acid Gamma-Linolenic Acid (GLA). The health benefits of EPO are attributed to GLA. Why are people taking it? You’re probably going to be sorry you asked. (grin)

GLA suppresses inflammation through its metabolism to DGLA, which, in turn, can competitively inhibit the pro-inflammatory Series-2 prostaglandins and Series-4 leukotrienes. The incorporation of GLA and its metabolites in cell membranes may also play a role in the possible anti-inflammatory, antithrombotic, anti-atherogenic and antiproliferative actions of EPO.

The short answer? It’s a GOOD fat!!! (grin)

65

As on 4/16/07…Friday 4/20/07

Calf: 15.7 in … the same
Thigh: 25 in … 24.41
Butt: 41.7 in … the same
Waist: 31.5 in (the narrowest bit)… 30.7
Bicep 12.6 in … 11.81
Chest: 37.4 in …37.79

Weight: 168.8 lbs … 168.2 lbs

This week was a bit disorganized. I’ve been eating well (=hitting the numbers) 4 out of 7 days. I haven’t notice drop of energy and got sick about 3 days ago. I’m already looking forward to the next week. This is really fun.

Big thanks to everyone who’s helping. And thanks to myself ha ha.

66

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
You’re probably going to be sorry you asked. (grin)

GLA suppresses inflammation through its metabolism to DGLA, which, in turn, can competitively inhibit the pro-inflammatory Series-2 prostaglandins and Series-4 leukotrienes. The incorporation of GLA and its metabolites in cell membranes may also play a role in the possible anti-inflammatory, antithrombotic, anti-atherogenic and antiproliferative actions of EPO.

The short answer? It’s a GOOD fat!!! (grin)[/quote]

Thank you very much it is enough… Good for my Latin. I’ve heard it’s good for women along with lots of soy (HA). I see they (government) are trying to trick us. I think the plan is to make us weak.

67

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
I eat with discipline during the week, and I really enjoy the pizza I have or the party or buffet I go to. Even though I don’t count/measure/weigh what I’m eating, I can pretty well assure you that I don’t eat 1700 calories in one sitting. If you can, I’m really impressed! (grin)
[/quote]

I wouldn’t say 1700/meal is totally out of reach, but I would agree that 1700 over our 300-400 calories is probably a stretch.

Just for the sake of argument, a person having two Big-Macs (540 cal each), a large fries (570 cal) and a large Coca-Cola (310 cal) would put the total calories for a meal at 1960 calories for that meal. As a 5’7", 165lbs male, I can probably eat that in one sitting. I only cringe at what some other bigger eaters can eat. :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
I’m in this for the long haul, jthsiao. So yes, if I had to eat with a little more discipline during the week so that i could relax and have a glass of wine and eat something I missed or really enjoyed that just isn’t on my plan, I don’t mind. And I and the people I’ve designed diets for (and whose progress I tracked over long periods of time) do generally make steady progress towards their goals.
[/quote]
Yes, I definitely understand and agree with your approach here about it being a lift style. If it’s not something that a person can stay on for the long haul, it’s not going to be effective. :slight_smile:

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Maybe you don’t feel a need to go hog wild, but wouldn’t it be fun to take your wife out on a date and have a beer or glass of wine, an appetizer, a meal and share a dessert … and not have to count or combine macronutrients? (grin)
[/quote]
As a matter of fact, I let my wife convince me to go to El Toritos this Sunday night for a night-out. We haven’t gone out to eat much since I’ve been on a diet and cook my own food. She doesn’t feel as motivated to go out since it’s just going to be her and the kids eating. It looks like this “cheat meal” is gonna be more for her sanity than for mine. :stuck_out_tongue:

So, I’m gonna give this “cheat meal” thing a try after all. :stuck_out_tongue:

68

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Onagra is known over here as Evening Primrose Oil (EPO).

…

The short answer? It’s a GOOD fat!!! (grin)[/quote]

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Thank you very much it is enough… Good for my Latin. I’ve heard it’s good for women along with lots of soy (HA). I see they (government) are trying to trick us. I think the plan is to make us weak.
[/quote]
I’ve seen that in my wife’s women-specific supplements as well. Is there any reason why it’s specially marketed towards women? Are there any women-specific anti-inflammation effects that doesn’t apply as much to men? It seems like everyone would need some good fat, not just women.

69

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
As on 4/16/07…Friday 4/20/07

Calf: 15.7 in … the same
Thigh: 25 in … 24.41
Butt: 41.7 in … the same
Waist: 31.5 in (the narrowest bit)… 30.7
Bicep 12.6 in … 11.81
Chest: 37.4 in …37.79

Weight: 168.8 lbs … 168.2 lbs

This week was a bit disorganized. I’ve been eating well (=hitting the numbers) 4 out of 7 days. I haven’t notice drop of energy and got sick about 3 days ago. I’m already looking forward to the next week. This is really fun.
[/quote]
It looks like that you’re not just losing fat, but gaining some muscles as well with the increase in chest measurement. Cool!

Keep up the good work Lucy. We’re cheering you on! :slight_smile:

70

Lucy, I am so glad you took measurements for me. You have no idea how good those results are! Fat is going down. Muscle is going up. You’re losing inches faster than you are losing weight and you’re maintaining athletic performance.

Girl, I am so proud of you!!! Your execution and discipline are truly world class.

71

I just need to get as muscular as Thor. Specially the neck.

[quote]jthsiao wrote:

It looks like that you’re not just losing fat, but gaining some muscles as well with the increase in chest measurement. Cool!

Keep up the good work Lucy. We’re cheering you on! :-)[/quote]

Thanks guys. Not so fast though. When I get 7 days out of a week we’ll be talking a different story:))

72

Lucy, you need to take lessons from Thor!!! Just find a stick that’s 10% of your body weight and hold it in your mouth and take a walk. You’ll be SURPRISED at how quickly you build up your neck muscles. (grin)

jthsiao, GLA supplementation benefits men and women, both. However there are some conditions specific to women that EPO helps with, like PMS, endometriosis, and mastalgia (tender, lumpy breasts with symptoms of pain and dull heavyness). Other conditons where it’s helpful that aren’t necessarily specific to women are some autoimmune disorders, benign prostatic hypertrophy, eczema, diabetes, and migraines

You’re starting to see why I’ve got people eating roughly equal amounts of monounsaturated fats, saturated fat and polyunsaturated fat. When the three are roughly in balance, any number of health conditons seem to resolve themselves. So the question is, if food has the potential to “cure” so many health conditions, are we possibly suffering from nutritional deficiencies?

As a matter of fact, I let my wife convince me to go to El Toritos this Sunday night for a night-out. We haven’t gone out to eat much since I’ve been on a diet and cook my own food. She doesn’t feel as motivated to go out since it’s just going to be her and the kids eating. It looks like this “cheat meal” is gonna be more for her sanity than for mine. So, I’m gonna give this “cheat meal” thing a try after all. :stuck_out_tongue:

This is just too cool!!! You have no idea how happy it makes me to hear that. There really isn’t any reason you can’t have it all … improved health and improved appearance and a good meal out with the family!!!

73

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Just find a stick that’s 10% of your body weight and hold it in your mouth and take a walk. You’ll be SURPRISED at how quickly you build up your neck muscles. (grin)[/quote]

I just gave that exercise a try and all I got was a strained neck and a toothache. :frowning:

Just kidding. :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh the exercises we’d try in the name of hypertrophy and strength gain…

74

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
Tampa-Terry wrote:
Just find a stick that’s 10% of your body weight and hold it in your mouth and take a walk. You’ll be SURPRISED at how quickly you build up your neck muscles. (grin)

I just gave that exercise a try and all I got was a strained neck and a toothache. :frowning:

Just kidding. :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh the exercises we’d try in the name of hypertrophy and strength gain…[/quote]

After you’ve managed 3 mile walk try hanging on the stick for short periods of time. If you good they can even spin you around. That’s what we do with the doggy. And he’s loving it!

I was going to ask: can I fit a goat milk into my program/diet? If so, how much and when is the best time?

You’re starting to see why I’ve got people eating roughly equal amounts of monounsaturated fats, saturated fat and polyunsaturated fat.

When the three are roughly in balance, any number of health conditions seem to resolve themselves. So the question is, if food has the potential to “cure” so many health conditions, are we possibly suffering from nutritional deficiencies?

You’ve got a good point there, TT. I’ve seen people curing diabetes by changing their diet.

75

I was going to ask: can I fit a goat milk into my program/diet? If so, how much and when is the best time?

Absolutely! Use it in your PWO meal or your first meal of the day. Those are the best spots. Milk is a little bit different than other protein sources. It has a low glycemic index, but a high (or higher) insulin index. That means it causes your body to secrete more insulin than other protein souces would.

76

What are the best “things” to help with detoxification?
I was thinking of taking MSM and vitamin C.

I must say I’m staring to be a bit “full”. I’ve never eaten so much protein in the past two weeks. Is there a possibility of me “overeating”. That my body can’t take so much of protein?

Let me tell you what I’ve had today for example:

XX9.30 Wake up
10.00 2 egg whites, 2.54 oz octopus, 1/2 cup broccoli + orange
11.30 1/2 cup pistachios + apple
13.45 1/2 cup merluza, 1 cup green beans, 1/2 Tbsp olive oil + apple
XX15.30-17.30 matches
18.00 1/2 cup oats, 1.5 Tbsp flax seeds, 1 Tbsp pollen, 20g whey protein, 2.2 oz yogurt, 2 oz goat milk

I’m falling on my face by now. This is how full I am.
21.30 3/4 cup shrimps, 1/2 cup kidney beans, salad, 1 Tbsp olive oil

Total: 1339 cal, P114 / F62 / C82

And I still need to put in at least 40g whey with some fish oil!!!

So you get the idea. Is there something WRONG with me :wink:

Greetings…

77

What do you think about what he’s got to say about food?!?
He talks about it in the 9th minute.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4100471449821338704&q=bashar

Thank you for your time!

One more thing… how many mg of Magnesium and Zinc should I be taking daily?

I was thinking of taking 30mg of Zn and 400 mg Mg twice a day.

78

I was looking at your day and trying to figure out how I’d arrange the meals around your day. The 15:30 too 17:30 is the “set in stone” part of your day that we plan meals around. I’d probably have done:

10:00
14:00
18:00
21:00
Midnight

If you’re not up at midnight, I’d make a protein shake before I went to bed and stick it in the fridge. Then I’d have a big glass of water (maybe 2!) and hit the sack. When you get up to hit the restroom, chug down your shake and go back to bed.

Whey is the type of protein you should eat if you want it to hit your bloodstream as quickly as possible. I recommend whey when people want to get up and exercise shortly after rising. When you’re going to bed, you want a fast release AND a slow release protein. Casein (like you find in cottage cheese) is a slow-release, slowly digested protein. If you’re having a protein shake before bed (or in the middle of the night), have a combination of the two.

If you have a short day, where you get up late and have to hit the sack early, I’d recommend you get up early, chug down a shake and go back to bed.

Remember that you can divide your protein requirements between either 5 meals OR 6.

At 18:00, your PWO meal, you should have had a serving of fruit. I’d probably “borrow” (steal?) it from your 11:30 meal, which is really a snack, more than a feeding opportunity that meets your protein requirements.

Did you look up pistachio nuts, by the way?

1/2 cup =
28.5g of fat!!! (Egads!)
16.5g of carbs (too many “extra” carbs)
13g of protein (too low for a scheduled meal)
350 calories

You had 43% of the 66g of fat you’re supposed to eat in a whole day’s time with those pistachio nuts. I’m guessing that’s why you’re full.

The MSM is good for your joints, supportive of cellular detoxification, helps with allergies, to name a few of its benefits. It gets an enthusiastic thumbs up from me.

Vitamin C is a water-soluble vitamin, so the body excretes anything it doesn’t need and use. It should be taken in small, divided doses 3 or 4 times a day. It would do you the most good if you took it before and after tennis practice – 2 of the 4 times you take it.

The only other thing I might recommend for detoxification is drinking green tea on a daily basis and adding in silymarin or silibinin, which are the active ingredients in milk thistle.

As far as zinc and magnesium go, that sounds about right. You’re doing better than most people by supplementing it in the first place. How’s your sleep, by the way?

79

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
I was looking at your day and trying to figure out how I’d arrange the meals around your day. The 15:30 too 17:30 is the “set in stone” part of your day that we plan meals around. I’d probably have done:

10:00
14:00
18:00
21:00
Midnight
[/quote]
I’m eating at:
09.30
12.00
14.00
17.30
20.00
22.00 shake

Good idea with the shake. I’ll do that.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
At 18:00, your PWO meal, you should have had a serving of fruit. I’d probably “borrow” (steal?) it from your 11:30 meal, which is really a snack, more than a feeding opportunity that meets your protein requirements.

Did you look up pistachio nuts, by the way?
[/quote]
Yeah, I know …I’m such a bad girl )) I was running out of proteins so I thought what the heck!

Thanks again. I’m thinking about the amounts of protein I’m eating recently. It looks like a lot. It’s satisfying me I must say. I used to be vegetarian few years ago living on beans and rice. No cheese, milk, eggs or meat.
Is all this protein good for one?
Well at the moment it is not bothering me too much and I know I can go back to eating “grass” whenever I want to. So far it’s working brilliantly!!

I’ll give you the up-date on Friday.

Sleep is pretty good. I feel like I need less of it than when I used to eat starchy carbs. I feel I’ve got more energy as well.
I’m enjoying myself.

You are a super star TT!! Find the problem = solve the problem.

80

Friday 4/27
Measurements are the same except for the waist where I was 30.7 and am 30.3 inches.
Weight 168.2 lbs before…167.2 lbs now.
Activity level: low

I ate well 5 out of 7 days.

SAT
144/55F/126 1567 cal
SUN
114/76F/189 1462 cal
MON
148/74F/130 1712 cal
TUE
166/82F/167 2018 cal

I don’t have any records for the rest of the week. So I guess I “ate” well for 4 out of 7 days.
I was a bit low on the protein as I’m finding it very difficult to eat so much of it anyway. (This is not a complaint, O.k? :))

Average day looked like this:
XX9.00 Wake up

09.45 40g w.protein, 1 yogurt, 1.5TBsp flax seeds, 1 Tbsp pollen + 1 orange

12.00 5 egg whites, 1 egg, 1/2 cup beans, 1 cup cauliflower + pear

14.00 0.8 cup cod, 1 cup cauliflower + apple

15.30 - 17.00 match

17.30 PWO Meal= 15g w.protein, 1 Tbsp flax seeds, 1 Tbsp pollen, 2 oz goat milk, 1/2 cup steel cut oats + apple

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I just could not eat any more protein in that meal, maybe I ate too soon after the match.

21.30 2 eggs, 2.36 oz tuna, 1.5 Tbsp olive oil

144/55F/126 1567 cal

One more day :

XX07.45 Wake up
8.30 1 egg, 5 e.whites, 3 oz sardine, 1 cup spinach

XX 9.30 - 13.00 tennis

13.15 1 egg, 2 whites, 2.54 oz octopus + 2 plums

14.45 8 0z low fat cottage cheese + 2 cups strawberries

XX17.40 45 min run

18.25 1 orange, 1 plum
^^^^^^
I know no protein in that meal.

21.30 7 oz salmon (before cooking), salad, 1 Tbsp fish oil, 1.5 Tbsp olive oil

24.00 2 Tbsp peanut butter

166/82F/167 2018 cal

I think I have to organize myself better. Otherwise I spend all my waking time in the kitchen or sopping for food ;-)) I have to start cooking on Sundays or so.Maybe I could use some advice on that.

Let me know what you think and thank you for your time.