[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
Studies have actually proved this, where using 50mg of test enanthate on a weekly basis in normal men only lowered FSH and LH secretion by 50%
So even when you are at 50mgs of test/ week, you’re not allowing full recovery. We can agree that when you have 50mgs of test injected, you get to keep half of your LH and FSH, right? Ok…soooo…
From skimming this post, there is no clear evidence presented which shows that when you are already 100% suppressed, you’ll even begin to recover while you are using this dose.
Look at it this way (rewording of what’s been said by P22):
50mgs of testosterone will allow you to keep 50% of your LH and FSH levels.
Right? Lets agree that his study strongly suggests the validity of that statement.
Ok, now lets apply that to a taper:
Since you are starting fully suppressed and therefore have no LH or FSH to speak of, you can keep your 50% of it by using 50mgs of Test. 50% of nothing is still nothing. 50% recovery of nothing is still nothing. Thus HPTA recovery will probably be nothing.
Thinking otherwise is like having a bank account with no money in it, and trying to earn interest! Yeah, just because the bank promises 4% interest, doesn’t mean you get it if there’s no money to start with in your account.
As you’re tapering down, by his admission, you are fully suppressed until you reach the 50mg/week dose, at which point you retain 50% of your LH and FSH. Which in this case is nothing. You’ve kept 50% of the HPTA you started with, as per the study. You’ve kept nothing, also. Remember, the 50mgs doesn’t RAISE your test to 50% of baseline…it LOWERS them by 50%. And you already have nothing in that bank.
In addition, why would this taper be more worthwhile than letting the natural half-life of TE just taper itself down?
Well researched, and a good effort- but invalid. The leap from “50mgs of TE lowers LH/FSH to 50%” to “50 mgs of TE will increase your LH/FSH by 50%” is being attempted here.
But it doesn’t even matter, because a Billion percent of nothing is still nothing…and even if you can keep 50% of your HPTA running while shooting 50mgs of TE…that’s not going to help you at all, because 50% of your non-functioning HPTA- is still zero.
If anyone is interested, this protocol, dose for dose and week for week- is the exact one Duchaine outlined in the original “Underground Steroid Handbook.”[/quote]
I’m sorry, but I never ever read any of those books you talk about. The only influence I have had was Cy, and my own knowlege of physiology, and experience using AAS.
The problem with all your arguments is that you just focus on the facts that were found. You need to apply this to human physiology, and feedback loops. It seems the difference we have is you think there is a clear on/ off switch, and I think the swich is a dimmer switch, where as proved in the research, varrying degrees of administration of test Enanthate causes varrying degrees of suppression. Now you think this only works one way? I dissagree, the negative feedback loops work both ways - In natural states: Too much T = lots of aromatization to E = less secretion of FSH/LH and less Testosterone, when blood levels of T begin lowering less aromatization occurs, and less E = more FSH/LH is secreted causing more T to be secreted. The Idea of tapering is to gradually allow the body to normalize and lower it back into a state where the feedback loop is operable.
And btw you got it wrong. Research shows no suppression whatsoever using Clomiphene at 100mg/ week concurently with 100mg/ week of test E. The researchers concluded that it was estrogen antagonism that was responsible for this, so therefore the use of any antiestrogen drug that lowers blood E levels below levels that are suppressive to the hypothalmus would also work.
as for lag time - That is why the taper is so long and gradual
increase in size, temperature, of the testes. It is my experience and that of others that the initial increases are accompanied with soreness.